Biblical Perspectives on Social Media and Technology

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Zach.
Michael.

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How's it going for the podcast
for today?

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I mean, we're recording.
Things are different today.

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Things things are different.
If if you're on the pod, you

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don't know what that is yet, but
if you're on YouTube, you

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probably already have a good
idea that our green screen's

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gone green.
Screen's gone that, and that's

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not the only thing.
That's probably a good idea for

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people to subscribe to us on
YouTube so they can get this

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exclusive content.
They'll know what's going on.

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And I'm going to do these in in
order of importance.

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So probably the second biggest
thing is we have a guest with us

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here, Jonathan White.
Welcome back to the podcast.

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He just waved if you are
watching on YouTube.

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If you didn't, you missed it.
So we can just kind of narrate

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the action as it goes.
That's that's good.

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And then probably third, most
important is that we don't more,

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even more important to have
Jonathan, we don't have Lord of

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the Rings in our background.
Which is, which is, to be fair,

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all I've ever wanted.
That's why.

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That's why I came on the podcast
in the 1st place as I wanted to

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be in Hobbiton or one of the
other locations.

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Yeah, and, and every time I show
up there, they take the green

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screen away.
It is crazy if we.

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Could get the green screen maybe
like 1 foot wider.

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We could probably do it with
three people, but unless we, we,

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I guess we could just sit
really, really close to each

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other.
That's true.

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That'd.
Be The Hobbit house gets a

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little snug with three guys in
there, huh?

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Honestly, as much as Jonathan
wishes he was there, I'm so glad

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I'm not.
So I don't know, It's like it's

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one man stretch.
It's another man stretch or

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something like that.
And then lastly, I'm wearing a

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blue shirt.
Jill makes fun.

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Never heard of seen this before.
I know Jill makes fun because

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I'm I want to buy a shirt.
She's like you.

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How many blue shirts do you
have?

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Like I have a lot of blue shirts
because blue is my normal color.

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But without the green screen
here we can.

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We're free to wear whatever
color we want.

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To I would like to point out
that I've been free to wear

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whatever color I want since the
first time I was on this

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podcast.
It's pretty amazing, but it does

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get texted about Jonathan and
his wisdom was like is it OK?

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What color am I allowed to wear
because he knows that you were

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the wrong color.
Boom all.

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Right.
So Jonathan, we just got done

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teaching a series at CBC and the
1st 246 lessons in that series,

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well it went parallel with your
Old Testament wisdom series.

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So send number of lessons were
about marriage and then we

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tacked on this end piece that we
thought was good for really

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everyone pertinent to marriage
and parenting, but talking about

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social media usage.
And so we wanted to ask, I mean,

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I guess if you're on YouTube,
you're kind of on some type of

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social media platform if you're
watching, but we wanted to have

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you here kind of give us an
overview of that.

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So anything to say before we
take it to the next level?

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Once again, we should have our
guests say this, and before we

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get into it, we should.
We did this last time, But what?

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Give us your credentials.
Assistant principal, Middle

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school at Northwood Academy.
He is a Coulson Fellow and he is

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a master teacher.
Do I know it?

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Then you think.
Those do belong to me.

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Those titles are mine.
And.

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Any other type Mr. Do you have
his masters in in some sort of

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writing?
In literature, yeah.

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Literature.
But that still makes me just a

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Mr. not a doctor or anything
like that.

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Yeah.
It's great.

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Well, J Carl.
White.

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That is my signature.
Talking about social media,

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that's something I only know you
by If they only see on Facebook,

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well, go ahead and just stare
into the soul of the camera and

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tell it that we're going to take
it to the next level.

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Let's take it to the next level.
From the hearts of the Low

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Country in South Carolina.
It's the Take Two podcast where

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we take theology to the next
level.

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So we are here with Jonathan, as
we said.

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And I just want to say off the
bat, really enjoy the class.

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I felt like I consider things
some things in a different light

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and that even led to action.
Maybe we'll talk about that,

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some of that action when we get
to it, where, where it fits into

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it.
Yeah, I will say this.

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It's we mentioned on another
podcast, we'll say it really

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briefly and maybe it's a teaser
for a future podcast.

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I don't know when the other
one's going to drop.

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But I, you know, for a short
time I have got rid of my

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Facebook app and it actually
calls me to be a worse employee

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at work.
Came back to bite me.

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I did not know what's going on
in my employee's life and I came

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off very in, you know, uncaring.
But I think that's a really one

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off.
It has to do with fires in

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Myrtle Beach, something that
probably won't happen a lot, but

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you know, yeah, yeah.
Anyway.

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So you talked about media usage
in general, maybe phone usage in

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particular, and you've given
this brief a number of times or

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talked to middle school kids and
parents.

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So is there something like just
give us a broad picture of maybe

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the what you've seen since you
started teaching, I don't know,

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10-12 years ago, 14 years ago,
1515 years ago?

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You were all around.
And.

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How does that make you feel?
Me that I.

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Have been.
You've been teaching for. 15 in

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the real world.
Wow.

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That is.
Crazy, at least.

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Yeah.
So the little known fact is that

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Jonathan was, I think you were
in 9th grade right when we came

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to CBC.
That sounds about right. 2002

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was your 9th grade year maybe
yes yeah yeah yeah so and and

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Jill and I, you were in our
youth group and then we had a

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relationship post youth group,
you know, or discipled and

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worked through the book of
Romans and maybe Galatians and

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so good, good time so yeah, I
guess that makes me old that's.

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What I was trying to get at, but
just not really get right at it.

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I just wanted to put it out
there.

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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Well, yeah.
So we, you know, so I started

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teaching in 2010 and that was
all high school.

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And it, it was one of those
situations where as, as I've

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been in the classroom over, you
know, that following decade

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plus, there's, there are
definitely changes that have

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happened.
And I think, I think if you were

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to talk to people, not even just
people in education, but if you

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were to talk to talk to people
that deal with adolescents in,

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in any capacity throughout their
days.

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There's just a lot of anecdotal
evidence that like things have

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changed.
Like there have been some

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differences in the way that
adolescents interact with other

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people, the way that they are
able to pay attention or not pay

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attention for longer period of
time.

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Do some of that, you know,
challenging mental investment

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when it's necessary and and all
of that kind of anecdotal

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evidence has really actually
gotten grounded in the last few

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years by a lot of actual hard
data.

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So social scientists have just
started to look at something

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that has shifted and, and really
the years in question are like

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2010 to 2015.
That's kind of the the time span

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where social scientists started
noticing a major upswing in what

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they call major depressive
episodes in adolescents and

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teenagers and a host of other
mental health related issues

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like a rise in anxiety and
medication for anxiety.

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You know, the prescriptions
being handed out for that in

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adolescence, as well as, you
know, emergency room reports and

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clinical reports of adolescents
involved in self harm.

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And so with with the just kind
of almost meteoric rise in those

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five or six years, it prompted a
lot of looking, a lot of

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testing, a lot of research and,
and data gathering.

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And one of the, I think maybe
one of the best resources out

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there right now about it.
I mean, it's gotten a lot of

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play time in media and on, you
know, bestseller book list.

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But The Anxious Generation by
Jonathan Haidt is sort of a

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compendium of the research
surrounding adolescence and

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mental health in this era, like
for mostly for Gen.

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Z.
And you were saying Jonathan

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Haidt is a pillar in the
Christian?

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I think he's a Dallas, the
electrics mirror graph, is that

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right?
Is that just a cut at Dallas?

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No, Jonathan Haidt is is open
about his atheism.

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He mentions it in the book.
And that was a caveat that I

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gave as we were talking through
his book.

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And really, I mean, we spent a
lot of time with his book.

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There were other things that
came up in that class that I

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think were important, but we did
spend a lot of time working

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through kind of the layout of
his book and what led up to it

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and the things that he saw in
the data.

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But the caveat was, you know, he
is an atheist.

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His his perspective is, you
know, evolutionary psychology.

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And so everything that we see,
whether in society or in the

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human psyche, he, his worldview
insists that it is just the

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result of biological evolution.
And that that kind of makes you

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wonder, OK, well, can I really,
can I read this book and get

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something out of it?
And it can be a that's a good

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concern, I think to have for
Christians reading discernment.

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But interestingly, the that
those kind of, you know, add his

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adherence to that worldview,
which we might call materialism,

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is not something that interrupts
his gathering and reporting of

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data.
And it's also interesting that

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in his book, he actually kind of
open handedly, you know, looks

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at data and says communities of
faith that are that are tight

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knit communities of faith that
have committed believers and,

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and you know, subtext.
You can read committed

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Christians like when there when
there's a family that is

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committed to church attendance,
Bible reading, Bible

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memorization, when they have
some of these certain factors in

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play.
Jonathan Hayes quick to say

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these sorts of, you know, groups
tend to see a much lower rate of

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some of they they kind of buck
the trend of what we see in the

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broader culture.
And that's not always true in

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the in the Christian community,
except when you adjust for

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making sure that when you're
looking at data, you're looking

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at actual committed born again
believers, right?

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So the there's, you know,
there's a statistic that says,

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you know, 50% of marriages and a
divorce for both believers and

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non believers.
Well, if you, if you actually

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look at those data sets and say,
what does it take to be called

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a, a believer, a Christian in
that data set, It's a pretty

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broad spectrum.
If you narrow it down to what is

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the divorce rate among committed
Christians that would call

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themselves born again, that have
a commitment to marriage as a

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covenant and attend church
regularly.

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Man, all of a sudden the the
divorce rate drops dramatically.

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And so again, it's it's
interesting coming from an

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evolutionary biology, biology,
biological perspective, even in

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psychology, Jonathan Haidt is
willing to go, yeah, like faith

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communities are doing something
right when they're when they're

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all in on their faith.
So it's an.

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It's just an interesting detail.
I would just say that I'm right

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there with you because I've had
conversations with atheists

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where the subject wasn't origin
of life and I was able to say,

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hey, you believe that we evolved
over a million years to this

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point.
I believe we were designed to

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this point.
Either way, we both believe that

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our bodies are adapted for this
thing, either by design or the

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revolution.
So we can agree to disagree on

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that right now because we're
talking about this thing.

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And so, you know, and I guess in
this particular subject we're

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talking about today, we have not
been necessarily designed or

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adapted to a lot of usage of
this screen.

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And so that's really going to
throw off our biology.

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So I think it's, you know, there
might be some minor differences

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of how we what we may say with
the solution is or some of the.

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But I think overall, like you
said, the data gathering and the

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idea that this is really
different than what we've done.

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Even if you even if you're a
very young earther and you think

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00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:02,480
6000 years, like, OK, this is 10
years at the end of, you know,

227
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,080
6000 years.
So this is a huge change for how

228
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,040
humans have interacted with
their environments.

229
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:07,680
Right.
Yeah.

230
00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:11,360
So the recognition of the
problem, that part is kind of

231
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:12,920
unavoidable.
The data is unavoidable, you

232
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:17,600
know, so, OK, so for, for the
last, you know, I guess the last

233
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:25,320
decade or so from from 2010
through the 20 teens, again, it

234
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,720
was a lot of anecdotal evidence.
It was a lot of teachers, you

235
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,720
know, in teachers meetings
saying, man, I just can't, I

236
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,120
can't get the kids to
concentrate.

237
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,360
It was and, and so part of that
is developmentally appropriate.

238
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,840
Like there, there are limits to,
to developmentally, there are

239
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,200
limits to what children should
be expected and required to do

240
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,640
in an academic setting.
But teachers across the board,

241
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,800
we're having these conversations
and it's just, I just as

242
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,280
something is, something's
different, something has changed

243
00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,840
and, and, and now the data is
here for it.

244
00:13:55,400 --> 00:14:00,040
So, so I I went through in our
Sunday school class the sort of

245
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,760
the layout of Jonathan hates
book and we can just kind of

246
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,840
briefly breeze through that
stuff.

247
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,320
I'll take the first one and you
can take the other ones, but

248
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,400
don't look at it.
Surge of suffering, is that

249
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,200
right?
Yeah, because all the the data

250
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,560
has started to pour in.
Longitudinal studies are now

251
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:18,680
pouring in about, you know,
we've, we've got a decade and

252
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:22,720
more of collected data on
adolescents and their screen

253
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,160
time, their Internet usage or
social media app usage.

254
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,680
And so that the that data is all
the graphs are like they just,

255
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,480
they just kind of go up with
whether it's major depressive

256
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:40,280
episodes, anxiety prescriptions,
whether it is the incidence of

257
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,520
self harm or incidence of
bullying and cyber bullying in

258
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,480
schools.
It's just that it's going up.

259
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,000
So yeah, the surge of suffering
was the thing that required

260
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,000
attention.
Like, let's look into these

261
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,720
things. #2 I don't look at it
well, I was going to say I, I

262
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:56,920
remember like surge of
suffering.

263
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:58,160
Was the one I remember it so I
wanted.

264
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,160
To just had to get that one
first.

265
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,040
I remember helping out with the
youth group at our church.

266
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,360
It probably was like 2015 or
something to your point,

267
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:11,120
Jonathan, where it's like we did
a study on social media problem,

268
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,320
like no hard data, but
everyone's kind of like, man, it

269
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,840
definitely can't be good.
And I think most people probably

270
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,760
know a lot of people with these
kind of disorders.

271
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,720
It's not only something that's
going up, but not saying all

272
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,680
this is bad, but very openly
talked about like the way the

273
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,800
way you talk to someone is, do
you feel hurts or it's like a

274
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,840
different even way to
communicate.

275
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:36,160
Again, not all of it's sad, but
it's like, man, it's everywhere.

276
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,320
Need to be very careful because
if you say something wrong and

277
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,920
you're triggering and it's a
it's a complicated thing.

278
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:43,320
I'm just going to go off my
memory.

279
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,280
And I think it was something
about decline of play based

280
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:48,200
childhood.
I don't know.

281
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,400
Yeah.
So the next two sections of the

282
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,320
book, Jonathan Haidt goes into
detailing the decline of what he

283
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,440
calls a play based childhood and
the rise of what he calls a

284
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,880
phone based childhood.
And in that that first section

285
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,360
about play based childhoods, he
really starts to kind of talk

286
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,560
about from a developmental
perspective, what do children

287
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,600
need in order to thrive as
they're as they're growing

288
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,000
through these really, really
important ages.

289
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:18,560
Kids grow really fast and then
really slow for a little while.

290
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,920
And, and in that, in that kind
of extended childhood that a lot

291
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,440
of mammals don't have, there are
some really important milestones

292
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,520
for, for humans.
And we would, we would say,

293
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,720
well, this is again, this is by
design.

294
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,560
This is not something that has
been just developed over

295
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,440
millions of years.
But although millions of years

296
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,280
could have been at play at some
points, depending on your

297
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,920
creationist theorizing, whenever
we talk about a play based

298
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,560
childhood, it's it's giving
opportunities for kids to

299
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,360
develop in ways that are
important for them, where

300
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,800
they're developing resilience,
the ability to be independent,

301
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:04,240
to make choices, to assess, you
know, risk and reward.

302
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,680
And so play based childhood is
really, if you're, I mean, if

303
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:14,720
you're older than maybe 30 or
32, it's probably, it's probably

304
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,319
kind of describes your childhood
like where you were, you kind of

305
00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:20,680
had the freedom after school,
you just kind of go out and

306
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,040
you're, you're just out, you're
out with your friends, you're

307
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,040
riding bikes around the
neighborhood or depending, you

308
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,520
know, depending on where you
live, you're out doing chores.

309
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,680
If you live in a rural, a rural
area, maybe it's dirt bikes and

310
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,600
four Wheelers, maybe it's chores
out in the, in taking care of

311
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,400
animals or doing something with
crops.

312
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,560
But there was just a sort of
lack of adult supervision.

313
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,600
And again, we can talk about
that in both positive and

314
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:48,080
negative ways, but I just know
that there's there's a lot of

315
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,440
things that happen in that, that
kind of play based childhood

316
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,000
where there's a little bit more
of that unstructured freedom for

317
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,000
kids to develop significant
aspects of both their

318
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,120
personality and their character.
And Jonathan Haidt says, well,

319
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:07,000
that's just really diminished as
we've gotten into this

320
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:14,360
information culture, this
Internet saturated world, that's

321
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:17,640
that kind of childhood has
really gone away because there's

322
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,200
always a stimulus there.
And it's and it's easier and

323
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:24,040
parents feel that it is safer,
you know, with the proliferation

324
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:30,760
of a 24 hour news cycle and the
ability for, well, what makes

325
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,480
people watch the news?
What makes people click on

326
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,600
stories?
It's when they're horrifying

327
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,280
things.
And so those stories tend to,

328
00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:41,320
you know, in in the newspaper
industry, there's an old line.

329
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:46,560
If it bleeds, it leads.
And so saturating our minds with

330
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:51,000
what we're perceived to be the
dangers of our culture, Parents

331
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,840
in elite, even back in the 90s
started this development of sort

332
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,160
of safety ISM kind of kind of
bringing their kids maybe closer

333
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,200
to home.
And, and as the rise of, you

334
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,640
know, Internet culture in the
late 90s and video game systems

335
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,600
and then phones in the mid
2000s, all that stuff sort of

336
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:13,280
allowed parents to put their kid
at home and just put them in

337
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,200
front of a screen and let that
thing take care of them.

338
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,240
Whereas they didn't have to
worry about, you know, are they

339
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,400
going to be home before the
street lights turn on?

340
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:27,440
And that that has some some
ramifications that that we're

341
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,200
we're still kind of seeing.
But that idea of safety ISM we

342
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,240
felt like the world became too
dangerous because we just saw

343
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,240
news stories all the time about
things that were dangerous.

344
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,480
Parents that grew up in the 70s.
There's there's all kinds of

345
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,200
serial killer.
If you ever watch serial killer

346
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,960
documentaries, it seems like the
70s was the time where all the

347
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,040
serial killers live.
Unsolved Mysteries, Dateline,

348
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,920
all those things have helped us
go and we look at the worst

349
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,000
possible scenario and we go, I
don't want that to happen to my

350
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,800
child.
And I think, well for me and I

351
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,840
don't, I think both of y'all
grew up in, you grew up in

352
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,800
Memphis, you grew up in
Charleston.

353
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,560
So larger towns, I grew up in a
small town in Arkansas, so I

354
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,560
could walk to school because I
live 2 blocks away from school

355
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,480
during the summer, I could ride
my bike like four or five blocks

356
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:14,920
away to the post office, get
mail.

357
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:16,920
Like my parents are at work,
like they don't know where I'm

358
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:18,000
at.
I could just decide, you know

359
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,200
what, I'm going to go get the
mail today and stuff.

360
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:22,680
And I was looking, you were
teaching.

361
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,440
I was like, I don't allow my
kids that level of freedom.

362
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,880
How can I, you know, start
thinking, how can I incorporate

363
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,200
some of that level of freedom?
Because even when my, some of my

364
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:32,600
girls like, can we run around
the neighborhood?

365
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,640
I'm like, have fun with you.
Stay in this part of the

366
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,440
neighborhood, you know, and is
they're probably fairly safe,

367
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,840
but you know, you hear horror
stories of missing and doing sex

368
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,560
trafficking and stuff like that.
And you're like, how do we,

369
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,320
what's the balance?
And the And the irony is that

370
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:55,120
statistics wise, our kids are
actually safer today in public

371
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:57,640
spaces than they've really ever
been.

372
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,800
And yet it's the time when we're
most controlling about where

373
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,520
they are.
And like, and I'm with you, like

374
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,400
my neighborhood doesn't have
like, amenities.

375
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,160
So there's not like a pool or a
clubhouse or that kind of stuff.

376
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,200
And it's not, it's not like in a
top area of town.

377
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,160
And so, yeah, like I'm, I'm not
in a place where I feel

378
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,680
comfortable just letting my kids
kind of wander the neighborhood

379
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,360
like I did at their age growing
up.

380
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,280
But but that you know, that it
it, it's interesting that we

381
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,240
did, we did this sort of
inverted ratio where we started

382
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,240
pulling them in from the
physical world and

383
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,920
overprotecting in the physical
space and absolutely under

384
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,560
protecting the digital space.
And I think the beginnings of it

385
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,200
were just a lot of parents just
didn't know what was going on.

386
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,760
Parents that were that grew up
totally analog.

387
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,160
The digital revolution was like
a like, I don't even know what's

388
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,120
going on.
Like my kids are just over there

389
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:51,840
playing with some fancy game in
it.

390
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,200
That's fine, it's whatever.
But.

391
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,920
Do you think parents of our
generation, because Internet was

392
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,600
hitting when I was in maybe 9th
grade, of course, you all like

393
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,600
grew up with the Internet.
Do you think that we're a little

394
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,200
bit more savvy to the dangers of
the Internet?

395
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,240
Maybe that's changed some of
this because we saw it younger,

396
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,200
whereas, you know, parents of,
you know, maybe your parents

397
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,680
didn't have that so that you
were maybe let loose.

398
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,360
I don't know, maybe generational
thing?

399
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:25,000
I think this generation
definitely has a better handle

400
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,360
on what it is because like so I,
I had sort of 1/2 and half like

401
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:33,400
so the, the millennials, it was
like a good chunk of my

402
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,960
childhood and formative years.
We're pretty much analog now.

403
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,080
We had ATV like there was cable
once in a while, but, and we got

404
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,640
like a Nintendo Entertainment
System when I was, I don't know,

405
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,440
nine years old or so.
We could play Duck Hunt or

406
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:51,760
something like that.
But I think I think parents of

407
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:57,040
my age in general are a little
bit more savvy about what the

408
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,480
negative ramifications are.
But I'll, but I'll actually tell

409
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,200
you where I think the, the major
hope is.

410
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,560
I think it's the generation
after me because there's there's

411
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:12,040
some recent reports out from
like the Coulson Center little

412
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,560
plug for those Coulson fellows
out there that that Gen.

413
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,560
Z is actually starting to sat.
There's some there's some

414
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,080
preliminary data that says Gen.
Z is starting to sour on some

415
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:24,960
social media.
And I think a lot of it has to

416
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,160
do with, like you said, how
free, how free they are to talk

417
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,760
about mental health issues and
then sort of the overwhelming

418
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,240
realization of where those
mental health issues are a lot

419
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:42,240
of a lot of times stemming from.
And, and that's again, major

420
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,440
deal.
But I, I think this generation

421
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:49,480
might, I think generation of
parents my age has an idea, but

422
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,120
I really think the cultural
tide, Gen.

423
00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:55,080
Z has the opportunity to turn
the cultural tide in a way that

424
00:23:55,080 --> 00:24:00,640
millennials, we may have lost
that by just a couple of years.

425
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:02,440
Good.
Did you have?

426
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,760
Yeah, I was going to say I was
curious to, well, I was going to

427
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,440
make a comment just probably
come later.

428
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,520
But you know, it's not the same
as social media, but a lot of

429
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,640
these people, a lot of people a
little bit older than I do sit

430
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,520
in front of Fox News or CNN all
day every and it feeds them in a

431
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:19,920
different way.
They're not swiping, but it's

432
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,520
like maybe a lesser screen
that's like doing that.

433
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,400
And then I was gonna say you
have.

434
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,320
The 24 Hour News.
It's like all the time.

435
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:31,320
And because we do have our
phones, there are the there is

436
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,920
that girl that went to the
mailbox got abducted and that's

437
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,640
on we've got like some video
where we didn't even have video

438
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,040
before words.
So that's more real.

439
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:41,840
My question for you guys, when
did you all get cell phones?

440
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,320
Just, you know, thinking about
our ages and where we were, I

441
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,360
know I was on my 13th birthday.
I was allowed to get a cell

442
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:51,280
phone, but the coolest thing our
cell phones did was like go

443
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,000
through ringtones.
Like we spent a lot of time,

444
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,640
like with my ringtone, we could
play snake.

445
00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:58,680
Maybe there was like if you had
like a BlackBerry, you could do

446
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,760
the little brick breaker thing.
But I'm just curious where you

447
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,960
guys were introduced to some of
this technology.

448
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,520
Yeah.
I got my first cell phone after

449
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,000
I graduated to high school or
maybe at the very end of high

450
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,240
school, and it was merely for
safety travelling back and

451
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:15,680
forth.
And it was one of those things

452
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,360
like you have so many minutes
and don't even dare think about

453
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:20,920
texting 'cause it's like 1/4.
It was.

454
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,880
Yeah, it was.
Crazy expensive even and if

455
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,880
someone texted you, you still
had to pay for it.

456
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:26,840
It's like.
Don't text.

457
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,360
Don't text.
Me.

458
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,560
And so.
They don't send a text as it's

459
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,320
like OK oh man what a waste of a
word.

460
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:36,960
Right, right.
And so then probably the first

461
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:44,880
smart device I got was an iPod
Touch, which was like an iPhone

462
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,840
but not a phone because I still
had like I had a BlackBerry for

463
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:52,160
my work and I had an iPod touch
just for, you know, like a

464
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,160
digital.
I'll say digital assistant, 7th,

465
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,200
8th grade.
Not a phone, but Palm Pilots

466
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:58,840
were like a thing for a little
bit of high school.

467
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,480
Like we all got them like as
like kids anyway.

468
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,760
Whip out the stylus.
Yeah, yeah.

469
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,480
And it didn't really work well.
Like the stylist didn't write

470
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,320
like it was really difficult to
work with.

471
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:14,960
I think I got a flip phone when
I was 16 because I was driving

472
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,760
to school and driving a friend
of mine to school.

473
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,920
And I think that was the the
time when my parents were oh,

474
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,120
and my brother.
It must have been when my

475
00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:28,360
brother went to college because
then he wasn't the driver

476
00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:30,240
anymore.
I was the driver for me and my

477
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,880
friends.
And so then that was it.

478
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,880
So I was probably 16 when that
happened, 16 or or 17.

479
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:38,920
And it was, yeah, it was a flip
phone.

480
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,520
It was T9 texting.
And so, yeah.

481
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,240
T9 texting.
Trying to explain that to to

482
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,840
middle schoolers today, like
what it was like to have to run

483
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,400
through that system texting.
Well, there was the one where

484
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,840
you had to push them over and
over again and it'll be like

485
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,000
ABC.
And then and then there was the

486
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,080
one where it was predictive, so
you could just hit the letter

487
00:26:58,120 --> 00:26:59,880
and it would kind of give you
some options.

488
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,360
That was a big step up.
In technology, Cool.

489
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,640
And even I remember as like
prior on that, it's like 1312,

490
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,440
like you're on the Internet, you
got mail a well, it's like even

491
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,080
some of that like dial up stuff
while it's dialing up, I could

492
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,000
do some play based interaction.
I got some time to kill.

493
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,040
It's gonna be 3 minutes before I
can get on my e-mail and instant

494
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,840
messenger.
So Jonathan, you talked about

495
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:27,600
the real life play.
So there's a cycle kind of at

496
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,640
home base.
I've learned from my previous

497
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:35,160
adventure, I go out, I risk
some, I get scared, some I come

498
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,560
back, I get comforted and then I
do that cycle over again.

499
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,120
And then for digital, there's
kind of a different cycle, this

500
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,680
dopamine pathway.
Do you want to talk about how

501
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,400
that differs between the two of
those?

502
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,320
Yeah, for sure.
And and there was a good example

503
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,600
that I had in my notes to share
on Sunday.

504
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,920
And I just, I told Kenya
afterwards, I was like, I didn't

505
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,440
look at my notes enough.
I had things I wanted to say and

506
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:00,480
I just didn't get.
I've been there.

507
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,000
So.
Been there, done so that that

508
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,760
that attachment system that
you're talking about where?

509
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,920
Where kids reach out from a
secure base, they do something a

510
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,640
little bit risky and then they
kind of see the reward or lack

511
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,240
of reward and they get a little
bit anxious if they're going too

512
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,080
far.
And then they run back to that

513
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,520
secure base to, to get kind of
reaffirmed and feel good about

514
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,960
what they did.
The, the example that I have is

515
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,400
our, our daughter Everly, who is
5.

516
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,640
We have these plastic knives
that we bought that are like

517
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,240
designed for kids to be able to
use.

518
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:33,880
So like cut their own fruit and
stuff.

519
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,080
And they're designed not to
really be able to cut you very

520
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,320
easily.
Like you really kind of have to

521
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,240
work at it if you're going to
cut your hand with it.

522
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,960
If you play spoons with plastic
knives they will cut you.

523
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:46,600
Just APSA for everyone out
there.

524
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,760
Not that anyone's tried it
before, but Michael's hands so I

525
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,160
can see the scars.
Actually there may be a a story

526
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,480
that needs to be revisited in
that at some point.

527
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,280
Playing spoons with knives I
just it.

528
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,440
Seems all right.
We'll leave it.

529
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,320
We'll leave it there for now.
She so I've I've shown her maybe

530
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,760
twice.
We get the little, it's a little

531
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,880
serrated kind of silicone or
plastic knife.

532
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,640
And, and it's, it's serrated, so
you have to kind of push it

533
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,200
forward to make it cut through
whatever you're trying to cut.

534
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,800
And I've shown her, you know
where to put your fingers and

535
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,360
then go ahead and slice down and
make sure it's on a flat

536
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,760
surface.
And I think probably I've done

537
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,320
it twice with her holding her
hand and holding her fingers and

538
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,680
showing her how it goes.
Well, the other day I literally

539
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,000
think I was sitting staring at
this computer working on this

540
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,920
presentation for one of the
Sundays.

541
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:47,360
And she came up to me and she
was like on the verge of tears.

542
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,360
Like you could see some tears in
her eyes, like a little bit of

543
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,760
watery.
And, and she was holding up her

544
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,600
hand and there was like a little
red mark on one of her fingers.

545
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,160
And I said, you know, I said
what you, what happened?

546
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,320
And she explained that she, she
wanted strawberries and shows

547
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,040
she got strawberries out of the
fridge, which that's good or she

548
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,600
could do that.
But then without me knowing, she

549
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,480
went and got that little plastic
knife that we use and she had

550
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,400
tried it on her own.
And I was really proud of her

551
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,920
that she went and she realized I
want this strawberry cut because

552
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,200
she she doesn't want the green
stuff on the top of it.

553
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,760
And so she decided she wanted
that strawberry cut.

554
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,440
She went and got the knife,
never said anything to me about

555
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,160
it, and then tries it herself.
But when she got to the point of

556
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,640
fear, it slipped out of the way.
The knife hit her finger.

557
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,400
Now it wasn't like it was a tiny
little scratch.

558
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,320
It wasn't even something I was
going to put a Band-Aid on.

559
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,160
It was just a little impression.
But she walked up to me and that

560
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,000
and that was that she was
returning to a secure base.

561
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,560
And then what did I do?
We we walked over and looked at

562
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,040
the situation and helped her
understand how to kind of

563
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,480
position things a little bit
better.

564
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,880
I showed her again, but then I
didn't put my hands on it

565
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,440
whenever she was going to
actually do it.

566
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,760
And so that, that that cycle is
so healthy, like to encourage

567
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:03,040
independence, to affirm, you
know, what they've done.

568
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,920
And then when they get a little
bit anxious or fearful because

569
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,280
they may have gone too far,
they're running back to that

570
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,520
secure base.
That's a beautiful structure.

571
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,040
But in the, in the social media
world there, there's a, there's

572
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,720
a whole different structure
that's not, that doesn't really

573
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,000
require, you know, return to
safe base.

574
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,040
There's a cycle that looks a lot
like an addiction cycle.

575
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,360
And so it starts with some kind
of trigger, some something, and

576
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,720
usually on a social media app,
you know, it's those push

577
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,480
notifications, they, they pop up
and tell you something has

578
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,480
happened and you need to know
about it.

579
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,640
And so after that you perform an
action.

580
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,840
So you tap on it.
Or if you're at a computer, you

581
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,560
know, you click on something.
And, and the social media

582
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,400
companies that are really smart
have have learned to be like

583
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,120
casinos where they give kind of
variable rewards.

584
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,600
It's not not every time you go
to the app are you going to get

585
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,440
something that you really like.
Sometimes it's going to be

586
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,360
something really good, like
you're going to see somebody

587
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,800
comments it on your photo or
somebody liked something.

588
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,200
But sometimes it just pops up
with a push notification to say,

589
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:07,800
hey, we thought you might want
to see this.

590
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,440
And you're like, I don't, I
don't care anything about that.

591
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,960
But they're just trying to get
you into the app over and over

592
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:19,360
and over again, sometimes with a
reward, knowing that if one out

593
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:24,160
of every 8-9 or ten times you
get into that app, something

594
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,160
triggers a dopamine release, the
anticipation of the next

595
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,160
dopamine release is even
greater.

596
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,560
And it just gets you into this
this cycle.

597
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:37,320
So from the trigger to the
action to that variable reward,

598
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,520
to some investment in the app
where you're putting part of

599
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,840
yourself in the app.
I mentioned Myspace because that

600
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,000
was where we put all of
ourselves in middle school.

601
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,200
Our whole life was going to be
displayed on that page.

602
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,880
The colors were important, the
music playing in the background

603
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,960
was important.
Your top eight friends was

604
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,160
really important.
And if you switched it out,

605
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,440
people were going to notice and
they were going to say something

606
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:57,920
like you were going to cause
some drama.

607
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,600
So all of that stuff, we
invested ourselves into that.

608
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,880
And that meant that for the
future, now that I'm invested in

609
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,760
this social media situation, I
don't always need an external

610
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,960
trigger to make me want to go to
the app.

611
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,200
Sometimes I just haven't.
I just a thought, I posted

612
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,240
something a while ago.
I wonder if anybody's seen it

613
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:17,960
and it.
And so all of a sudden this

614
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,920
cycle is, is it's a cycle of
addiction because of the

615
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,640
variable reward and because of
the dopamine that comes from

616
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,880
those variable rewards.
It is an addictive cycle.

617
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,480
And social media companies know
this.

618
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,120
And we know from internal
documents that whistleblowers

619
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,400
have shared or that have been
shared through Freedom of

620
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,480
Information Act or that kind of
thing, We know that social media

621
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:45,640
developers are keenly aware of
the psychology of addiction and

622
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,360
the psychology of adolescents.
And there's just a huge

623
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,040
incentive for social media
companies to get a massive

624
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,240
consumer base that will always
be a consumer base for them

625
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,680
because they get to sell ad
space that way, right?

626
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,760
That that determines their
numbers for their cash flow.

627
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:07,680
And they're good at this, like
the the social media apps, I

628
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,760
heard someone say early on in
the sort of social media

629
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:15,120
revolution, if the, if the
product is free, you are the

630
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,600
product, right?
Yeah, there's a whole Netflix

631
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,280
special.
I think it was on Netflix.

632
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,280
Yeah, they have like the social,
whatever it's called, but they

633
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:22,400
did a really good job.
Yeah.

634
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,360
And.
It's how they like curate your

635
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,560
doom scrolling feed and stuff
and how they know like how how

636
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,000
how fast and how long exactly
what you want to see they.

637
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,760
They have all the numbers and
like from what I understand,

638
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,639
it's like, you know, people that
engineer this stuff is like my

639
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:38,239
kids not allowed on this because
I know how addictive it is,

640
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,960
right, right.
And, and go into that like real

641
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,520
life playing versus the digital.
Even when things go bad in real

642
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,239
life and you are anxious and
nervous, it's just a different

643
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,480
feeling than when you're
scrolling and like it just zaps

644
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,600
the lifeout.
You like know it's not good.

645
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,320
Like even when you mess up in
real life, you're like, oh, this

646
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:57,760
was not good.
But it's like a totally

647
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,680
different feeling in my mind.
Well, in real life, you can do

648
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:01,840
something about it.
That's right.

649
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,400
Right.
So like if, if I if Everly when

650
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,800
she slipped with the knife, the
strawberry popped out of the way

651
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,840
and she hit her finger with that
little part of that knife, she

652
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,080
could do something about it
because that's a real world

653
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,240
scenario and she can run back to
a secure base.

654
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,160
If something makes me feel
anxious or fearful or awful

655
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,160
online, there's there's not
really a recourse.

656
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,080
Like there's not a lot I can do.
I mean, I can fire off in the

657
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,640
comment section, but but you're
right, there's especially.

658
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,840
If you're an adolescent, maybe
even less well prepared to do

659
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,560
something about it, maybe you
don't say anything.

660
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,240
Maybe that haunts your.
It just builds up.

661
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:40,920
Yeah, it just builds up.
Absolutely.

662
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,040
Yep.
All right.

663
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:49,120
So I'm guessing that many of our
listeners really relate to what

664
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,120
you're talking through 'cause
maybe they have had that their

665
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,000
own experience, like complaining
on Facebook about getting 15,000

666
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,720
words about it freezing and then
going down and see 06 people

667
00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:01,000
laughed at that.
I guess I said something pretty

668
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,880
funny.
Not that I just not that that

669
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,120
just happened for me.
So we probably really relate to

670
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,960
that.
And then hopefully you're going,

671
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:15,160
man, if I am in this trap, how
much more so than maybe my kids.

672
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:21,040
So maybe you could speak as
we're drawing, we're kind of

673
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,360
this, maybe we should have
scheduled 2, but maybe you can

674
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,960
speak quickly to the evaluative
value you say that word.

675
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,440
Evaluative.
Process for what's good in our

676
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,160
life.
And then maybe a game plan

677
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:42,000
overall for parents who are that
they got young kids, maybe maybe

678
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,600
they've already unleash
Pandora's box.

679
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,400
Is there a strategy for getting
Pandora in those types of

680
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,120
things?
Yes, we don't have to follow the

681
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,840
Greek myth on this one.
So the evaluative framework I

682
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:54,560
think that Christians should
generally use.

683
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,720
It's interesting.
We've been talking about Romans

684
00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:59,600
and a lot of a lot of what I
think about Christians

685
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:04,080
evaluating their interactions
and their participation in

686
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:09,520
things comes from Romans 13 and
14 and then First Corinthians 8

687
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:10,880
through 10.
I think these are two really,

688
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,600
really strong passages for it
because they're centered on for

689
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,640
the most part, they're centered
on love.

690
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,280
And that's that is a major
defining characteristic.

691
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,760
So I think I think in terms of
kind of four laws that I want to

692
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,640
run thing, I want to kind of let
this be my rubric if I'm

693
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,800
considering involvement.
And the first one is, is what

694
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,320
John Piper calls the the lowest
question that you should ask,

695
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,880
Still an important one, but it's
the question of is it a sin,

696
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,760
right?
So there we have clear commands

697
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,440
in Scripture of things that fall
into the category of sin.

698
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,520
Exodus 20 begins that process.
But then Paul gives us numerous

699
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,720
different lists of things that
are sinful.

700
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,560
And so we want to run things in
our life through that, that

701
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,960
filter first, is it a sin?
Because that's a clear and

702
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,120
obvious note, right?
If something falls in that

703
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,680
category, I have to, I have to
step away from it.

704
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,760
I have to remove myself.
But if it's not a sin, then you

705
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:04,960
kind of have these further tiers
of questions.

706
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,520
And so I call the next one the
law of honor and it's can I, can

707
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,440
I honor God in it?
Which is a good question, but

708
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,040
then it's do I honor God in it?
We look at 1st Corinthians 1031

709
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:19,680
for that one and.
I'll say this is where I took

710
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,280
action because I have some like
stupid games on my phone, like a

711
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,240
little arcade games that are ad
based revenue and I'm like, OK,

712
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:32,400
could I maybe conceivably, but
do I, I don't know, maybe I'm

713
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,640
like what?
What is the real benefit?

714
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:37,200
So those I just deleted them.
Yeah, just got rid of them.

715
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,600
That's strong clash clans
really.

716
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,640
Gone.
OK, that's been a raw.

717
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,720
Stars gone, some other stuff
just gone.

718
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,520
Like, you know, just so I just
don't have chess.

719
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:51,480
Yeah, there's a mahjong game I
still have on because Phoebe

720
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,160
likes to help match tiles.
So I feel like that is a way to

721
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:55,960
go.
But I was like, so I evaluated

722
00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:00,160
like what?
What is God honoring and what am

723
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,320
I God honoring?
And what is just really a

724
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,320
resource suck on my life.
Get rid of it.

725
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,280
And that's a really.
I mean, I'm telling and I, and I

726
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,000
have to say it every time I talk
about these things.

727
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,880
Like I, I like to put this
evaluative framework out there,

728
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:14,920
but my life doesn't perfectly
follow this thing.

729
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,920
Like I have to look, I have to
look at I, I love video games.

730
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,120
I really enjoy playing video
games and I have to kind of

731
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,520
really, I have had to take a
step back in certain areas of

732
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,280
life and, and areas of games,
especially to go.

733
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,880
Can I honor God in it?
Do I honor God in like that's a

734
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,280
that's a really hard question to
have to be confronted with and

735
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,200
go that that hurts sometimes
like that.

736
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,680
There's a cut there.
The next one is the law of love

737
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:45,160
and it's can I show love in it?
Can I show love in this activity

738
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,000
or this involvement?
And will it cause a brother to

739
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,240
stumble?
And that was I'm sure you guys

740
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,640
have taken that up and we'll be
releasing that.

741
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:52,480
Did we cover?
That.

742
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,120
And that's a just the law of
love.

743
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,720
Like is this something that I
can be involved in and not not

744
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:08,040
'cause somebody else through my?
Desire to please myself even in

745
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,920
a even in a maybe a good thing
or an OK thing.

746
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,440
Is it going to cost somebody
else to stumble and then the

747
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,320
last one is the the law of
expediency.

748
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,280
And that is the question of does
it help me run?

749
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,160
Is this something that and
that's John Piper has a great a

750
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,760
great video great sermon on this
from Hebrews.

751
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,320
Does it help me run laying aside
these these sins, but also

752
00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:35,200
everything that hinders us from.
Yeah, everything.

753
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,360
And man, would you run life
through those four filters?

754
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,440
You're like, I have to really be
careful.

755
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,720
Yeah.
If you can expand this outside

756
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:47,320
of social media, there's a lot
of things you can.

757
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:48,720
Run this through.
Yeah.

758
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,240
All right.
Game plan for for parents.

759
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:56,720
I think if you got young parents
maybe the easiest thing is just

760
00:40:56,720 --> 00:41:00,320
delay screen time.
Yes, limit screen time.

761
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,960
Oh well, limit screen time and
delay when you give them

762
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,920
autonomous screen time like a
phone or a tablet.

763
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,280
Well, and social media in
particular like that, that is

764
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,240
the key.
So smartphones themselves are

765
00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:17,960
not designed in the same way as
social media apps.

766
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,320
A smartphone is, is like a Swiss
army knife, right?

767
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:21,840
It's not designed to be
addictive.

768
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,160
It is a tool and it's a great
tool, but the social media, the.

769
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,320
Tricorder.
Because you're making those

770
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:28,920
noises.
I bet you could.

771
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,960
I bet there's an app for it.
Yeah, probably.

772
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:38,760
But yeah, So I would say yes,
managing screen time and then

773
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,120
delaying the time before kids
get social media and really

774
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,160
having the conversation with
your teens.

775
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,160
Why, why do you want it?
Like why, why do you want the

776
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:48,680
social media?
What do you think you're going

777
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,400
to get out of it?
How are we going to use it as a

778
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,480
family?
And I think one of the major

779
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,960
things is having a family
technology philosophy and A and

780
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,560
a family plan.
Like we, we've got to have a

781
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,960
conversation in our families
where we go, what are these

782
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,000
things for and how are we going
to use them?

783
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,080
And what effect is that going to
have on us?

784
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:09,840
And having those conversations,
especially when the kids get to

785
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,000
have input, you know, parents
make the decisions.

786
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,520
But when kids are at the table,
especially as they're getting

787
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:21,160
older, preteens and teenagers,
they, they need to feel a sense

788
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,480
of ownership in some decisions
that are being made Now,

789
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,560
sometimes another idea is that
sometimes you just have to tell

790
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:28,920
them, I know more than you and I
love you.

791
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,880
And so I'm going to make the
right decision in this

792
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,040
situation, whether or not you
understand it, because I know

793
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,400
more than you and I love you.
But as often as possible when we

794
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:41,560
can give preteens and teens
ownership, and really, I mean,

795
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,120
it probably goes even further
down into adolescence when we

796
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:48,040
can give them ownership in some
of the family decisions.

797
00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:50,200
At least let them have their
voice heard.

798
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,040
Like what it what is your
thought on this?

799
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,480
How are your friends using this?
What are you noticing that gives

800
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,800
them some buy in?
And so it's not too late,

801
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,360
whether you're just raising kids
now that it's going to be years

802
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:05,280
before they get into cell phones
or whether you have teenagers

803
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,000
that have already kind of dived
into this situation.

804
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,120
It it is never too late to to
step back and have the

805
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,480
conversation is, is this good
for us?

806
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,360
What are we seeing here?
And I think it's fair to say as

807
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,200
well that not all social media
is the same.

808
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,440
Karis, we allowed her to have
the real and good reads.

809
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,280
Those are two social media
platforms.

810
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,200
I don't think they have.
Surely they have some of the

811
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,640
addictive cycle built in because
they want, but I don't think

812
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,760
from my understanding of this,
not quite as strong as like an

813
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,440
Instagram or a Facebook.
And then there's some social

814
00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:49,760
things that we just, I feel like
the from the ground up are

815
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,840
designed poorly.
I don't even know the one that's

816
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,760
like makes messages disappear
that we just don't Snapchat.

817
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,760
We just don't, Yeah, like we
just, that's just not ever going

818
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,720
to be allowed at the my house.
That's right.

819
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:03,960
Yeah.
With good, I haven't ever had a

820
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,880
hard time just exiting good
reads.

821
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,360
You know what I mean?
It is it's cool.

822
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,480
It's great to see updates from
my favorite authors.

823
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:18,720
But so family technology
philosophy, like talking about

824
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:21,400
it as a family, having a plan
for how and where and I would

825
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,800
even say where like so in my
family, I, I shared that my kids

826
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:30,240
are, are 10/8 and five and we
don't really do screens during

827
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:33,480
the week.
We do have some screen time on

828
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,080
weekends and again, us a feature
of just our family schedule and

829
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,680
how things work for us.
But my kids know that they're

830
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:46,320
not allowed to have a tablet in
a room by themselves, right.

831
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,480
So they're not allowed in
bedrooms even even at the ages

832
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,920
of 1085.
They are aware that these are

833
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,800
common area devices.
And so we don't we don't go off

834
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,840
by ourselves with these devices.
So just having those sort of

835
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:02,840
standards in the household is
really helpful and helps to move

836
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,600
them in the right direction of
thinking, how should I be using

837
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,080
this thing?
There's also that put off put

838
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:09,920
on.
So if you are in a situation

839
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,720
where you already have teens or
preteens and they have already

840
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,960
kind of been in social media and
now you're going, we got to pull

841
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,120
this thing back.
Be prepared to provide some

842
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,800
alternatives because there's
going to be there's going to be

843
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,720
a gap there.
It's not going to be a fun

844
00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:25,720
conversation.
Nobody's going to enjoy each

845
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:27,200
other's company for a little
while.

846
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:32,000
Especially I've heard 21 days is
like key to reset your dopamine

847
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:37,040
cycle, so you may have to really
be present for those first three

848
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,280
weeks while you're retraining
your kids minds and maybe even

849
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:45,200
your mind to do some alternate
alternate things.

850
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,280
It's going to be some family
board game time.

851
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,440
It's going to be walks around
the neighborhood like we're

852
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,920
going to find we're going to if
you really want to do this,

853
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,360
you're going to find ways to
fill the space that was taken up

854
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,840
by just that kind of social
media scrolling.

855
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,680
But you, you do, if you're going
to take something away, you've

856
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,360
got to put something in that
spot.

857
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,120
And and boredom can be one of
those things.

858
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,840
Boredom is good for kids.
It is one of the the times that

859
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:14,080
our brains fire most uniquely
and, and well, and, and build

860
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,040
important connections when we're
bored and have to kind of figure

861
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,400
out what to do.
Yeah, that's those would be some

862
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,800
things also modeling behaviors,
making sure that we are showing

863
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,520
our kids what it looks like to
live.

864
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,200
Get off your phone.
Yeah, that that, that's what I

865
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,880
was going to say, 'cause I
think, you know, what are some

866
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,680
practical ways?
I mean, I guess there's easy

867
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,960
ways, just don't get on it.
But but it's different than

868
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,960
something I feel like my
solution is just don't get on

869
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,840
social media very much or like
take the app off.

870
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,280
If I have to get on, I'll go
through the browser.

871
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,000
Like just make it like a little
bit harder.

872
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,560
But part of me is like, maybe
that's a bad way to look at it

873
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,720
where, you know, 10 years ago
you could say, hey, I'm fighting

874
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:53,320
pornography.
I'm getting rid of my computer.

875
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,400
Can't really do that today
because it's so ubiquitous.

876
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,560
So like, how are you going to
actually have a strategy and

877
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,720
filters and things are good, but
what are you doing outside of

878
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:05,760
that to help point you in the
right direction?

879
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,520
And, you know, I don't know, but
these are things I've been

880
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,920
thinking about because, you
know, it's to me, it's easy to

881
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,480
be OK.
I just don't have any of these.

882
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,440
But I don't know if that's a,
it's almost like thinking of

883
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,920
Romans 14.
It's like maybe I'm the weaker

884
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:20,640
brother here.
And I don't, I think alcohol,

885
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:23,120
drinking alcohol is a sin.
So I'm just totally cutting off

886
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,280
and, you know, I don't know.
So there, yeah.

887
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,640
And there is there can be a
danger to doing this sort of

888
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,640
monastery move where you just
pull way back from something

889
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,640
because the reality is our kids
are going to be without us in

890
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,200
this culture at some point.
So we got to do some heart.

891
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,120
Yes, and that's, and that I
think a lot of it comes down to

892
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:42,400
that.
And so there's, you know,

893
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,560
there's family devotions,
there's time around the dinner

894
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,640
table.
That's that's precious time.

895
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,080
And we don't get that much of
it.

896
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:53,600
Like we look at how long we have
with these kids.

897
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,960
I'm looking at pictures of your
kids right now and Michael's got

898
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,520
one that is in college and one
getting ready to go, right?

899
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:08,280
And one in kindergarten.
So just, it's just, we just

900
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,920
recognize the time is limited.
And so the, the job of the

901
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,600
parent is, is to do that heart
training so that when we when we

902
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,280
kind of release them, they've
had exposure to things that they

903
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,920
need to have exposure to.
We've worked in their hearts.

904
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,480
God, we've, I say, we've worked
in their hearts.

905
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,640
We don't actually get to do the
work right.

906
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,640
We are praying for them and then
doing our job and the Holy

907
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:35,240
Spirit is going to enter into
that situation and do the work

908
00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:39,720
of molding hearts and changing
affections and bringing them

909
00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:43,040
into the mind of Christ.
But we, we just, we have the

910
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,680
biggest role to play aside from
the Holy Spirit.

911
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,120
The parents are the ones who had
that biggest role to play and we

912
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,240
can't, we can't sleep on that.
It'd be interesting too.

913
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,440
I've been thinking about, I
mean, you know, going through

914
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,680
things like Facebook and this
kind of thing and just be like,

915
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:01,200
who do I follow?
Like what is it putting in front

916
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,280
of my face?
What am I idolizing just by what

917
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,440
I picked to idolize?
Because there's probably certain

918
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:10,440
things I can just like take off
because these people are just

919
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:11,560
always pointing to certain
things.

920
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,560
You know what I mean?
I don't know, think think could

921
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,000
just like it's one of those
things where I think Facebook

922
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,560
just makes you or any social
media just makes you think about

923
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,240
put your focus on yourself so
much and what other people

924
00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:24,400
think.
And it's like maybe a little bit

925
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,840
of that's OK, but I don't know.
I'm always trying to grapple

926
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,680
with how much is is good to do
versus like, man, maybe I just

927
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:32,640
need to not focus on myself so
much.

928
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:34,560
Yeah, well, we want to keep
grappling.

929
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,200
I mean, that's, that's, that's
the move is to keep grappling.

930
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,280
So what I'm going to do is
you've taught two classes.

931
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,680
Those are on determined Audio.
I'm going to link them in the

932
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:48,080
description this Sunday.
So this podcast will hit before

933
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:49,320
this happens.
We're going to have a panel

934
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:54,400
discussion and so I will, if I
can remember, I'll go back and

935
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:59,080
add that later to to this.
So maybe you can check back in

936
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:03,720
and and find that there as well.
Any any like big major things we

937
00:50:03,720 --> 00:50:06,840
didn't cover or anything that
you want to add?

938
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,800
There's just, I mean, there are
resources out there for for

939
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,760
parents that are interested in
this topic and want to move.

940
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:18,440
You have a list of resources and
maybe I could get a copy of

941
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,800
those and link those in the
description as well it.

942
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:22,240
Will be good.
I have a quick question.

943
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:25,480
I don't know in in your research
or this guy's book, and I know

944
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,520
it's all different probably
based on your feed and your

945
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:28,640
tendencies and these kind of
things.

946
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,520
But was there a correlation
between, man, you spend more

947
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,680
than five hours a week, it's bad
news or that's where you see a

948
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,160
huge uptick or is it doesn't
really matter?

949
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:41,280
One of the stats that sticks out
in my mind just as a mind blower

950
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:49,080
is that 3 plus hours of social
media a day for adolescents

951
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:51,360
double S the risk of mental
illness.

952
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:56,000
So, you know, major depressive
episodes, anxiety, suicidal

953
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,840
ideation, these things, the, the
risk of those is doubled for

954
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:05,240
three plus hours a day.
And your average adolescent, the

955
00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:09,240
statistics vary, but it's, it's
5 plus hours a day for your

956
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:14,680
preteens and, and tweens and,
and up to maybe 7 to 8 hours a

957
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,720
day for teenagers.
But the, the data also shows

958
00:51:18,720 --> 00:51:21,840
that teenagers that are, that
are given that like 7 to 8 hours

959
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,320
a day when it, when the question
is asked a different way, they

960
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,480
go.
I'm basically just continuously

961
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:32,120
online, like I'm continuously
online as whenever I can be, I

962
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,800
am.
And so that that number is

963
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:39,000
alarming.
But there are resources, like I

964
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,720
said, access.org, the Coulson
Center has great videos.

965
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:44,920
The Anxious Generation is a good
book if you just want to make

966
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:49,120
sure you read with discernment,
knowing the the ideas of the

967
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,560
author.
Yeah, there's a lot of good

968
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:53,840
stuff out there.
All right, Jonathan, thank you

969
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:55,960
for being here.
Thank you for doing all this

970
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:59,120
research.
I know this is like people ask

971
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,040
me some stuff to teach them.
Like how long did you study for?

972
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,160
Like it's like my whole life.
It's like, so I'm sure that some

973
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,920
of this stuff you've been,
you've been kind of, it's not

974
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:09,680
just like a single thing that
it's like you, you delve into

975
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:11,800
it, you study it because that's
kind of what you're about

976
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,440
leading and and helping shape
kids lives.

977
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,760
So I appreciate.
That and next time about that

978
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,680
green screen Oh yeah we'll.
Put, we'll figure.

979
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:21,520
We'll figure something out and
we'll put.

980
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,600
We'll put some if you want it to
be.

981
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:27,920
Weather Top.
Back end weather top.

982
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:29,480
Weather top.
OK, we'll do Weather top.

983
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,440
All right, So I think our guest
has to.

984
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,440
Has to close it out as well.
Do you remember the words?

985
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,880
I feel like.
Just say what you thinking is

986
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:39,960
that.
Oh, that would be good.

987
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:43,240
From that from now on, the guest
just ended how you think it

988
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,880
should go.
All right, that's our take.

989
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,440
Nailed it.
Thanks for listening to Take

990
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,640
Two.
Find us wherever you find

991
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,160
podcasts and on YouTube for
those who want to watch our

992
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:56,840
video cast.