Cults | Four Christian-Adjacent Movements: Where the Doctrinal Fault Lines Are

0:00 4th episode on the Colts. Colts. And you said I think it was last episode that aired something like, you know, at the start of a new series you're all pumped and kind of as the series goes on, you know, your energy gets. I would say we're kind of in that midway point of our series. I had originally planned to do 1 episode for each one of these and I thought they're smaller, lesser known and maybe there are similar enough the concerns of me that we can combine 3 of. Them. OK, Yeah, I like that. Yeah. You know, you can not not kill two birds, one stone. Right, right.

0:40 There you go. That's good. We have gotten some feedback. I do you know who is? Was it crumble? Is it crumbled? I don't know, I, I maybe I know this person, but if I know him, I don't know that I know him. Yeah. But yeah, he's like seems like a new pretty avid listener. So thank you. Appreciate that comments. I I was just checking. I don't I'm not like a YouTube person yeah and I check it and I'm like, oh, this is great. I need to look at it. So I was I need to go through these comments, but. Yeah, so there were a lot of comments on both our Mormon. Yeah, there were. Yeah, Yeah. And the Jehovah's Witness, and there's a point where I think the clarity like we're arguing doctrine, which one's right. But I think through the that discussion, you see clarity. We do not agree.

1:24 Yeah, clear. Clearly, If nothing else, you take away there's some disagreement, you know, And I thought they were all like, civil, like, it wasn't like too terrible, you know? But it was like you could see that point. Yeah, and that's really what we're trying to demonstrate here. While, while we obviously believe that we're right 'cause if we didn't believe we were right, we would believe something else was right and we'd be something else. So clearly it's, you know, I think I, I say that because in some circles people go, oh, that's so egotistical to think you're right. Like, well, everyone really does think they're right. So at some level, yeah, yeah. You wouldn't do the things you do or say that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right now the, the, the last one Christian Science, you know, maybe you know, we, we ran the numbers on that one and it was like, what was it, 100? Thousand it was it was smaller than I thought I knew it wouldn't be huge, but I was like this is actually, you know, not not a big movement so.

2:16 Our only comment on there was she is beautiful and I have no idea what that means. I was like, how do I respond to this? I don't. I don't know. Yeah. Barry Baker, Edie, Is that I? I. Maybe. Is that who it is? I. Don't know, I'm just kidding. So today we're going to be talking about Word of Faith, Oneness Pentecostalism. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And 7th Day Adventist and, and instead of kind of dealing with them as we have the others that are kind of better well known and maybe more documented, we're going to kind of just deal with these in theological segments because really how you answer. And I was listening to another podcast today and I was like, oh, they're outline kind of matches ours because they said how you answer the question about who Christ is, how you answer the question about how to be saved and how you answer the question about what your ultimate authority is. Man, those three things will determine whether you are within the fold of true Christianity or outside the fold. And if you really think about in order to answer who Christ is, you have to kind of get God proper and Christology right. I love that.

3:27 And and ours, we do break up God and and Jesus separately, but you could kind of see him as too. It's, it's so true. It's like, you know, you just got to get the basics right. It's good to know those fundamentals. You know, sometimes fundamentalism has this kind of different thing, but if you get like the basic tenets, it's good to know the Trinity. Well, Christology, well, like if you know these things, that's gonna. Yeah. What must I do to get to heaven? What must I do to be safe? Yeah, these are important things where, you know, sometimes the more fun, tangential, tangential conversations happen to out here. It's like, no, no, no. Yeah, we can see see a lot in these basic doctrines. All right, Well, I think we've laid the groundwork.

4:07 I think we're ready to take it to the next level. Let's fire up that twangy music. From the hearts of the Low Country in South Carolina. It's the Take Two podcast where we take theology to the next level. If you are a member of the Word of Faith movement, Yeah. Or a member of the New Apostolic Reformation? Or a member of the Oneness Pentecostalism? Or 7th Day Adventism? Did we say all four of those? We did not. We said three. I think we skipped the the New Apostolic Reformation. OK, yeah. So it's those four of them that we're going to be dealing with. And so I, I misnamed our little tab. You know, it's it is late for us. Hey, it's been a long, long week already. A long day, that's right.

4:59 So bear with us. But so we're going to be dealing with those four. And if you are a member of one of those, you may have gotten served up this video in YouTube and you're like, who are these guys? What are they doing? And so we're doing a short series on faiths that would call themselves Christian. You recognize that you would say you're a Christian, but we're saying we're claiming that the differences are big enough in some of these areas that that label may not be aptly applied. Yeah. It's like if you, you know, you've seen like the memes, like help me find the difference in this picture. We're finding the differences.

5:42 We're maybe surface level, like all these things look similar. It's like we're drilling down. They're not, they're not similar. Maybe in some ways they're similar, but they're very different when you explore more foundational ideas. Yeah, yeah. And that, that's really good. And I, I heard this thing, not to get off the tracks, but I heard this thing about Mormons, you know, Mormonism, they used to have polygamy. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And then that was like, no, that's outlawed. But there is like this sect of Mormonism that they still think that a polygamy is right. You know. And the the Mormons who don't believe it, they say they're not true Mormons.

6:22 You are not a Mormon it because we've been told that that's not right. And so that that to me, while in some ways on practical matter, that's a big deal, theologically it's not that big of a deal. It's not as big as the nature of who God is then how how you're saved. And so you, I just found it weird that if Mormons are willing to say you're not a true Mormon because you're saying you can have more than one wife, We're saying you're not a real Christian. Because everything that we believe about who God is, who Jesus is, how he saves us, what heaven is like, what sanctification is like, all those things, those, those. Are different. Yeah. Oh, that, that that's great. So where are we starting today? So we're going to start with that first main category, the Trinity, who is God.

7:11 And just as a reminder, we're not using the word cult as a slang or as a slang. I know we've said that. So our regular listeners are tired of hearing that, but we're going to have potentially some new folks who they're particular faith system is on the spotlight here and they haven't heard us say that. So we're using cult in the academic manner, which just means a Christian adjacent faith that would maybe put the label Christian on their faith. But there are big enough differences in these core areas that it may not make sense to call you Christian, at least not a creedal Christian, Orthodox Christian. OK, so if we're gonna begin by looking at the Trinity, you know, I've heard, I've heard this, I've heard this said.

7:56 I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard this said a lot. You know, if you're looking for counterfeits like you got to know what the real deal is first, and then you can spot those counterfeits a little bit easier. So do do we know what the Trinity is? Well, let's, let's, let's talk like creedal, doctrinal, like historical, classical Christianity, 'cause this is important as we go into these other cults, one God. One God, one being, some people would say. One what? One what good and three coequal coeternal persons? So the Father is God, Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God. But at the same time. They're all at the same time, the same. They share the same exact nature. The Father is not the Son.

8:42 The Son is not the Spirit. The Spirit is not the Father. Whatever that diagram is called, that's the only thing I think of where it's like is God and is not each other. That's like a good way. If you're going to try to diagram it out, that's about the only way to do it. And you know, as of recording, we're very close to Saint Patrick. 'S day which? Makes me think of that Lutheran satire video where you try to start doing analogies and you run into a problem here because commonly it's not modes. It's not like we're shape shifting here and, you know, depending on there's no parts. Yeah, not partialism, Patrick. There's not even you know, Arianism or these sub deities where Jesus, you know the second person is God but to a lesser extent than God the Father or something like. That or the best of the creation. There you go.

9:30 Yeah, Yeah, that's, that's good. So I guess that leads us into where we're going to start Oneness. Pentecostalism. Yeah. So one Miss Pentecostalism is they deny the eternal personal distinctions. They would say there is one being, so they get that right. But that being makes himself known in different ways. And so one way that we would call this a heresy, I would say I am Michael, I am a son, I'm a father, I am a brother, I am a coach. I'm an. Engineer, I'm a so I have all these different hats that I'm wearing, but at the core it's still me. And so that's really what the the even the in the name Oneness kind of.

10:11 Cost was maybe Coach Michael gets a little more fired up at certain things, maybe Father Michael's a little more tender, but you're the same. Just ask my daughters. I was told one of my daughter's, I won't say to who said that. She's like, you know, on those commercials for different prescription judges, like if you have moderate, severe, blah, blah, blah. She's like, your temper is moderate, severe. And I was like, I think that's a little a little tough, but yeah, yeah, to get back on track. Yeah, different faces of of who I am. That's right. And classic, you know, queue up the, you know, Patrick. Oh. Patrick modalism, when in doubt, just yell modalism or partialism. And you probably nailed a lot of these things. So modalism which was rejected in the 3rd century. And so like we're showing with all these other cults, cults, it kind of gets to a very core distinction. Greg Kohl, when he's been asked about this, someone has kind of pressed him on it.

11:10 He's like, but don't you think one has Pentecostal since they're trusting in Christ's work on the cross, even though they think Christ and the Father are the same, wouldn't they be saved? And I, I, I think his response was good and it's something that I would, he responded. Maybe. I don't have. Anything in the Bible that would lead me to believe that I don't know the mind of God and I would for sure want to say here's exactly what the Bible teaches and preaches come in line with that and then you don't have to risk it. And then you don't have to risk it. Yeah, that that's great. And I've heard I don't know if this is a John MacArthur quote or not, but something like, you know, probably, you know, many Catholics that that are saved, but more likely like good, good Catholics.

11:55 Probably not. It's I know. How much do you are you like living and breathing this doctrine? And you're you know, you're like, I, I am hard, firm and and all these things. But, you know, I think there is a lot of a lot of things you, you know that that could happen. You don't have to, you know, know everything perfectly and you know even some really important things. When I was first saved, when I was really saved, I was really diving into, you know, I and the father are one and stuff. So I started like I, I don't know if it was like the the realization that this man who lived 2000 years ago is God. Like that was like you say those things in Sunday school, but when you like really think about it. So like I was really pushing this. So I was, I don't know that I would ever said I was the one this Pentecostal, but I was like, and then someone's like, well, yeah, Michael, but they're still distinct persons and they like showed me in the description. OK, yeah, yeah, yeah.

12:54 So I think you can have these kind of pendulum where maybe you can look back in your time where you're like, Oh, yeah, I probably lessen the distinctions too much here. We're not saying if you ever do that, you're not gonna go to heaven. But but if you were to, like know that you go, well, I think you're just that Scripture is wrong or you're not gonna, then that's a problem. Yeah. Moving on. Yeah. Moving on. Word of Faith. Yes, and, and, and some of some of these are are tricky, even if going back to Oneness Pentecostalism, many Pentecostals are not Oneness Pentecostals and and then so that's like very like. That's a good thing to make. Yeah, We're not saying Pentecostals. We're saying there's a particular stripe of Pentecostals.

13:36 And with Word of Faith, there's not like it's like the term Baptist. There are a lot of people who wear the, the the umbrella Baptist, but they have very different beliefs. So the Word of Faith, we're taking some generalizations out of here. You could be Word of Faith and like, oh, I don't believe that. And we'll we'll say that that's probably right. Yeah, that's fine. We're not. We're not trying to nail down. It's not as catechized as others. Yeah. I, I like it. So you talk to individuals in this, in this movements. Some people you can even I, I like, I like this person, 'cause sometimes you, you pick up things and the way they talk and you're like, oh, that's interesting to put forth like this little God's language, right? Yeah, yeah.

14:18 And and the idea that we can almost mimic God, like the power is in the word and not in God. Like, Oh well, he spoke it. Those words are so powerful and it's like, just say the name of Jesus and there's power in Jesus. Well, it's like his name was Yeshua, not not Jesus. Right, Yeah, yeah, if you want to go like push on that argument super hard and it is confusing because it is, It is powerful to speak scripture over someone, right? And so it's like the. Meaning is yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's not the actual words, right? Yeah, Yeah, the sounds that you're putting consonants. Yeah, exactly. A lot of this is God is more mechanistic. He operates by the spiritual law. So if I do XY and Z, I'll get AB and C out and that really kind of goes to some of their healing or monetary practices, so. Yeah, where they, you know, you can kind of get a bat sometimes get get a bad rap that yeah, X = Y and if you don't get Y, you didn't have enough faith or, or whatever, whatever it might, might be.

15:21 And, and ultimately a lot of their views kind of, you mentioned it with when we talked a little goblet. But you blur this distinction between creator and creature where you do this formula and you kind of take hold of that power. Yeah, So maybe not quite as bad as one as Pentecostalism where they're getting the full ontology wrong, but some, some, some distortions, new Apostolic Reformation, generally Trinitarian. So those are were in line with us, no formal ontological break. So their problem is not in this area. So we're going to just kind of look at all four of them. Real grateful. So it's like, hey. We'll, we'll get to, we'll get to authority later. We'll, we'll, we'll put that on pause, OK. And then 7th Day Adventism, officially and historically Trinitarian, so there's no real deviation there.

16:05 So the the big one in this category is Oneness Pentecostalism, with Word of Faith being a little bit shaky on their view of who God is. All right, the person of Christ. Let's start with orthodox classical, historic creedal Christianity, that Christ 100% God, fully God, 100% fully man, eternal Son. This is important, not created. Not created. Not adopted. So the first born is actually a title of preeminence, the preeminent 1. You think of folks who had the monogen, There's so there's monogenes only begotten.

16:49 There's first born. Those two terms, sometimes those get confused, but those are titles of honor, honorifics in the Jewish system. You think of Esau selling his birthright. Yeah. So there's a way that Jesus the Son, the word is an inheritor of all creation. He's he's the eminent 1. All right, so one is Pentecostal. Muyari talked on this. They explicitly deny eternal sonship. The Sun begins at incarnation. Yeah, that's that, that that's pretty big. And I wonder, you know, maybe you know this when we're when we're talking Angel, the Lord stuff, is that just like a manifestation or is that separate, you know? I don't know what they would say. I, I think what they're saying is this is God and he starts wearing this hat. This is another YEAH mode.

17:34 It's just a mode of him. So they probably would say Dos Theophanies was just a mode of God, yeah. It's God. Anyway, it's yeah, yeah. Makes sense? Word of Faith in some of the extremes form Jesus was born again. Jesus takes on Satan's nature on the cross and atonement becomes redefined in there. So it's not your typical penal substitution, but somehow Jesus is being transformed. If if, if you're of the stripe and you can explain this a bit to us, let's. Talk more, it's great. Yeah, that'd. Be great NARI, love the the sling. NAR. NAR they they. That's how. That's how our pastor says the Word nor NAR.

18:18 New, it's new Apostolic Reformation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Christology looking pretty good, generally Orthodox. You know, maybe there's some some risk here in overshadow overshadowing Christ with Apostolic authority structures. We'll talk about that later. Well, you'll kind of see how that might, you know, you run the risk of that, which is how, how things are set up. 7th Day Adventists. Again, generally Orthodox here, nor no formal break. All right, so here's where we're going to start to see some, I think a little bit of some shake UPS. The gospel. How is 1 saved? Obviously crashed classical Christianity justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. You know, all those Solas and we base it on our next one will really kind of be a solo, you know, scripture alone. But that's our our 4th category and we're not really Sacramento or organizational when.

19:19 It comes to solve it, Yeah, it's not. This is you don't have. To be yeah, baptism, it's not, it's not you have to be baptized to be saved. These things that that that's good so. We would have questions if you didn't want to be. Baptized. That's right. That's right. There's that, that's a distinction. It's it's importance, but not something that's kind of where we started this series, kind of. Right. Yeah. So that's good. Oneness Pentecostalism talks about repentance plus baptism and very important in Jesus name. And if you are truly say that's going to manifest and be evidenced in followed by tongues. So it it is like this formula that if you don't have all the pieces, then salvation comes into question where you have, you know, a lot of the same stuff we would say like some of that same language.

20:05 And then you kind of like add this, add this, add this. Yeah. So we wouldn't, we would say, yeah, tongues was a gift. Maybe it's not a gift today. That's that's up for debate. There are evangelicals that fall on both those sides, but I don't know if any evangelical or true Christian would say speaking in tongues is required for salvation. Even like your kind of run in the mill Pentecostal. They would say, well, you haven't had the second baptism. You're not living in the full spirit, but but you're still saved. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think. They would still recognize that salvation's faith. Grace through faith. Yeah. Yeah. Man, you want to talk about Galatians one and five here? Well, I mean, Galatians is probably one of the best books in the Bible, at least one of the top, you know what, 66 books that's. Very true, very true.

20:51 Well, Paul explicitly says in Galatians one no other gospel. Why are you trying to return to these works? If anyone comes and preach another gospel, even if it's an Angel, he's accursed. And then he's going to really drive that point home. In chapter 5, he's dealing with a slightly different issue. He's dealing with Jews or and Gentiles who are being told, no Gentiles, you got to keep the law. And he's going to come in and say, we didn't even keep the law. How how are you going to try to put this burden on Gentiles? And he tells the the Gentiles, if you go and get circumcised for justification, that's the key phrase.

21:31 It's not saying you can't be circumcised. But if you do that, then Christ is no benefit because you got to keep the whole law. Now you can't do that to be yeah, you can't do that to be to get your salvation. So in the same way, you can't add works to grace because it's either grace or works. Wouldn't that be great? I would love to listen to, like a sermon series preaching through Galatians of one of these. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, it's good. All right. Word of Faith movement faith reframed often as a force that if you have enough faith, you kind of use that faith in that formula to get kind of what, what you want, where prosperity, things like healing that that's presented as covenant guarantees. So if you, you know, you have this faith, you're, you're saved, like God's going to look out for you and you've got that battle leg.

22:23 It's you know, we're going to fix that. All these things and the cross essentially becomes this pathway to victory more so than reconciliation. It gives you access to like all of these, you know, financial gains, health, wealth, prosperity, all these different, different things where this one is tricky because a lot of that language is very similar. And maybe the perspective or horizon is different where we might say a lot of the same things, but we're looking much farther down the road. Yeah. And in this episode I was listening to today where they were really kind of dealing with some of these same things. They said this phrase that I thought was really beneficial, Like what was the cross meant to accomplish? Was it meant to save us from our sins and reconcile us to Christ, or was it meant to give us a better life here on earth? Not that it can't, but often it doesn't give us, you know, sometimes it it's worse.

23:18 Yeah, it can be worse. So it's like, what is the point of the cross? Did Jesus come to save us or just tell us how to live and and have better stuff? And that's a dividing line. That's subtle, but it is a big. It is a fundamental difference. Yeah, that and it's you really pick up on this stuff when you're like in that world or talking. I've got, we've got a few friends in this kind of, you know, area and it's like, man, we just, you just need to pray harder or believe more and your next big break's going to happen. You know what I mean? This kind of thing. So I, I that that's good. All right, moving on to the New Apostolic Reformation. For them, the gospel sometimes is subordinated to dominion language.

24:03 So they're going to take dominion over stuff. The emphasis here, it's, it's not that they necessarily get the gospel wrong if you were to ask them, but the emphasis can be shifted over on, you know, breakthrough destiny. There's triumphism, you know, 'cause the apostles are, are, you know, kind of they're, they're there, they've been anointed. I I think that that's problematic because the apostles are supposed to have authorities, right? So that we'll get to really the big break between US and new Apostolic Reformation in the in the last section. So it's not is again, it's one of those. It's not like definitely you could point to, oh, this is a place where they're outside the pale, but it's like where the the emphasis is in the wrong spot does that. Mean yeah, that that that makes a lot of sense. 7th day Adventist.

24:55 I think you know, the law officially grace based and we can kind of see it has lined up pretty well with some of these other doctrines. There's a specific doctrine, this investigative judgment doctrine that essentially calls into question assurance of salvation. Can you have, can you have true assurance and then if you can guess from the name or you know, if you, if you knew anything about someday Adventist, emphasis on the 7th day, the Sabbath, that observance and, and adhering to it that that's a big deal. I had a buddy who went to a physical therapy school that was someday Adventist and it was like the study patterns were different than like mine at MUSC or the things that you could do on campus based on the day of the week kind of thing. That's.

25:40 That's interesting. And so we're not saying that holding your services on a Saturday is wrong or that you can do that. What we're saying is you have freedom. I would say some Christians disagree, especially your What is it the 16? 1689. 1689 I can remember the last two. They love it. Yeah. If you're if you're a lot, a lot of these reformed, it's, you know, it's, it's important. It's very almost, I think too, too far because I Paul says some some days count this day, some days count this day. We're not going to judge a person for the day that they they see on. So that's that's I'm a little bit more loose with it. I know, I know. You're probably lean more 1689.

26:22 I, I, I, I do, I do like, I like, I like Sunday being emphasized. I I do like that. I do, I like it too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I would never say. Yeah, you're not. You're out of for observing it on Saturday. What? About Monday. I don't think you. I I don't think you. I'm just getting it. I'm just I'm just getting. But and so my my critique of the SDA is here 7th Day Adventists would be the same is where you legalize the day that that you're yeah, a lot of. Emphasis a lot of pressure that you you know yeah lacking lacking that grace let's get to the fun one authority who speaks for God because when you get to ultimate authority that that tells you a lot about you know what where Allegiant where where these different cults lie so let's look at the classical historical creedal Christianity Scripture is final authority apostles kind of spoke for God time and place you know it's not we don't.

27:27 Jesus Cornerstone. Jesus Cornerstone, right? And Apostles Foundation. That's what Paul says in Ephesians, yeah. Teachers today do explain scripture, but they do not, you know, speak. It's not ex cathedra. I'm speaking Scripture. It goes. Yeah, 'cause like, so we're in this series in our home church where Jesus saying you've heard it said this, but I say to you this, and I don't even remember apostles saying that. Yeah, right, right, right. But apostles would sometimes have some what they took, I don't even want to say liberties, what a what?

28:08 So they would take maybe some Old Testament passages and they would say, boom, here's a way to understand this. That's great. I under I imagine Peter just being like boom. Under the inspiration of the Spirit, which for for you or me to do that, we don't have that license to interpret an Old Testament passage beyond what it might say to us. So I I guess that's as far as the apostles take it. But but their written words were recognized as Scripture. The upper room discourse where Jesus is saying, you know, I'm going to give you all truth. I think that's to the apostles who are writing Scripture so that the Spirit LED them into all truth so that they would be inerrant in what they're writing.

28:52 This is great. Have we been going in a certain order or we we've been jumping all over the place? I mean normally. Yeah, normally oneness comes first. Hey you. You want to keep it going with. Oneness. Do oneness. All right, So you look at Oneness Pentecostalism, there's the strong centralized nominational control in in some bodies. Again, you know, there's, there's different probably little subdivisions. This kind of thing, this baptismal formula, this is very important, you know, even to salvation where it gets gets elevated as that, that's a huge authority point. Yep, Yep. And then what was the next one? We were doing the. Next one Word of Faith and and to this one.

29:33 This is where it gets tricky. And even not Word of Faith, maybe some, you know, not one is Pentecostal Pentecostals when you mention this word prophecy, like what's this mean? Is it a word from God? Is it on the same level of scripture? This this gets very confusing. Someone like, you know, Wayne Drudem is pretty can be pretty liberal with prophecy. Where are you like Isaiah and Jeremiah Or, you know, it's like, what? What's this mean? What does that mean? Yeah, I think I, I think we, you and I would both agree that God could give a prophetic message to someone today. Yeah, but I think it's that person's on the hook to make me believe it. Like I, I I have no good reason to think that God has spoken through anyone recently.

30:20 And just because you come up to me and say God told me this, that's not enough for me. It actually reminds me that God was telling me that you should give me 50 bucks. I got this. You know, word of prophecy, It's not against Scripture to give me money, so. That is crazy because God actually talked to me and he said you should give me 100 bucks. It's like the sorry to mention this off color show that Zach watches. But the that scene where what's the guy who plays the banjo? Oh, that's great. Oh, Andy. Andy is like, we could have our answering machine and we could just have the answer just have a little more zip and pop and then John's like I've got an idea.

31:02 We could do an even newer answering machine with even a little more extra zip like. Something like, yeah, that's that's really good, but just. To not make light of prophecy, you could get into a situation if someone's abusing that, where it is like that, just one up and one up. And even you step out of Word of Faith, you stepped into, you know, the circles we've run in, you hear people. It's like, well, God told me this. And it's like, that's like the trump card. It's like, well, you know, and, you know, maybe someone did have a dream. Maybe they thought God told maybe, maybe that. Maybe it's just it's hard to verify, especially when it's, you know, not neutral. It doesn't go. It doesn't, you know, if someone if if you say like God told me to forgive my wife, I'm like, probably. So, yeah.

31:47 I mean, it's like I could, I could read you a verse and God is speaking, you know? Right. Yeah, you don't. You wouldn't need the audible voice of God to tell you to forgive your wife when he's already written it down to you, right? Right. Right, right. Right. Yes, yes. So yeah, just, you know, not to get back on. Another podcast was already done, but God's never going to tell you to do something that's against. Scripture that that that's good. That's a that's a red flag right there. When it's I've got like you like what Jesus was saying of the sermon in the mouth. Someone else is saying that bad, bad news. All right, so where are we? So we did oneness, we did Word of Faith. So here the, you know, the authority can be, you know, in the ability to name something and claim it. That's I know that that people probably get tired of that, but it is this phrase that kind of catches the that thought process of, you know, you can name it and you can claim it as it goes back to those more mechanistic rules that God is governed by. Next one is NAR, new Apostolic reformation. This is probably the biggest one that has a real the. Name Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:52 Apostles, prophets popping up everywhere. That's like how you Apostle John, Apostle Michael, Apostle Zach, you know, it's like how you refer to to people. And so and then for clarity to other, you know, the nominations, they might use that terminology, but may not mean it as like an apostle. They might just mean, you know, a send out one of some sort like. So some of that defining your terms is of. Importance. So yeah. So there are some people that are given the title Apostle that you wouldn't put to a, what I would call a capital, a apostle. But they're sent out not from Jesus, they're sent out from someone else. And that's the distinction.

33:33 So if you know you told one of your JV soccer players like, hey, go talk to this team, tell them yada yada yada, they are an apostle of Zach, then 'cause you've sent them out with the message, right? Yeah, I love it. But that doesn't raise them to the office of Apostle of Jesus Christ, who he sent out to establish his church. 'Cause we mentioned it, if you have that office, then you are speaking for for God and we mentioned the foundation. You're really laying out a much different house. Foundation is really sprawling and adding new foundation all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. And then our last, the SDAS, 7th Day Adventist. So they do have some apostles who have authority there. Ellen G White as a prophetic authority, officially subordinate to the Scripture.

34:25 But at practice, yeah, they're going to say that her prophecies are going to help people to understand what Scripture meant. And I don't want to sound churlish when I say those things, but if it, you know, is clearly reinterpreting something and really bending Scripture, then I don't think that she's actually. Yeah. And I'm not up enough on SD as to point to specific examples. Maybe we should have brought some of those in the notes. But that general POS what's authority structure is somewhat problematic. And that, that, that's good. I like, you know, what we've tried to do in this episode because I think we've we've looked at different things.

35:08 We've done it through the series. We look at all these different deviations and and there is a spectrum. Some are just outright, we mentioned it like heretical. A lot of them are, you know, and a lot of these and some areas, some places are inbounds and in other areas they're out of bounds. Some are like this subtle distortion where if you push on it too hard, yeah, we're out of bounds. But you know, maybe in certain areas not, but we're kind of hitting all the different. It's like a rubric, like how are we doing here, here, here or here? Yeah, yeah, Yep. All right. So that is what we're covering. So some of the big deviations, oneness, Trinity departure, Word of Faith, Gospel distortion, new new Apostolic Reformation. Obviously their authority is destabilized because you have people who are on the same level as John and Paul, but probably aren't being led by the Spirit like John and Paul were. And then you have your SD as where law and assurance there's tension with, you know, the additional prophet authority. So when you look at these clearly lesser off of the, you know, they're closer to, I would say orthodox Christianity is then Mormonism or Jehovah's Witness. Probably the biggest one would be the Trinity departure and the Oneness Pentecostalism.

36:31 That's that's probably the the one that raises the biggest flag. Man, I like it. Any anything else we want we want to close out with. Not necessarily for for this. So just where this series is going. Yeah. So we're going to talk about the Black Hebrew Israelites. They are different enough that I thought they probably deserve their own episode. And they're like every now and then, you know, chirping a little bit where they're like, they're around. Yeah, there was a time where I saw them showing up a lot on reels and I haven't seen it as much. So again, I don't know if it's one of those things that's kind of a flash in the pan and and they're kind of or if they're really sticking around, they have some staying power. I don't know.

37:14 OK. I like that, yeah. And then we are going to look at Catholicism. Man, yeah, the big one. Because when we measure Catholicism by some of these standards, by what is at least written down for their doctrine, it's troublesome. That is interesting, right? Yeah. You look, I don't like this. We're looking at and with Catholicism, What's nice about Catholicism is that there is dogma like you could, you can, you can find what they believe, like what the church believes, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and there's some things that are that are core issues that are not completely square with the Bible. And so it's like it's hard to be the judge to say, oh, is that so far that you can't be a Christian? Well, yeah, I, I don't know that I ultimately get to make that call.

38:07 In fact, I, I know I'm not. But it, it's, it goes back to the what we said at the beginning. Like you can read the Bible and be assured, like, why risk being believing counter to what the Scripture says? Like just just read it. Yeah. Yeah, great. Well, do we transition to the? Final take. Final, last take, Last take, final take. I can't never remember. I can never remember. Hey, what's the I ran across the kid who knows you at North. I forgot he's in my neighborhood. Northwood kid. He's on the varsity. Soccer team. The varsity soccer team. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Brendan. Yeah, is his name. Say his name again. Brendan. Brendan, I, I don't know the varsity players as well and I always get confused if it's Brendan or Brendan, but now I know Brendan.

38:54 There's Brendan at our church, Brendan at school. OK, great, great. But he have he have good things to say. Yeah, he basically said, coach, I know my name because we don't interact enough. And I was like, hey, I I was like, hey, I know you. And I was like, man, we got First Baptist Friday. How you feeling? How do you feel like we're going to do? And he just said Yikes and drove away. There you go. You know, at least the it's cooling down a little bit so my my long sleeve coaching gear will be more appropriate. Right. It was pretty hot. Yesterday I was dying. Yeah, oh man, Yeah. Any any appropriate weather gear on the horizon for you?

39:34 Yes, I did. Oh. Great. Yeah, I'm excited. I I should be careful with with what I say. But what I will say is Jonathan White. Oh. For the win, OK, great. For the win, it's good. I do have a beef to pick with. So I, I, I'm partially responsible for, I guess a lot responsible for getting you into this coaching position. So that's. Great, I've I've really enjoyed. It oh good, that's been good. They send out an e-mail and like hey, we need AJV soccer coach. I was like, I know you're a guy. I just hope I get I I can keep the job for next year. I hope we can get AI. Think if you're willing to do. It. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're probably going to be willing to have you in there. I've I've really enjoyed. It's been fun.

40:15 The practices I have felt have gone well. The hardest thing is we just have a big team. But that's a good problem to have. Like there's a lot of interest in the 6th and 7th grade. So my beef is do y'all have a game next Tuesday? We do. What time does it start? It's against Heathwood, I can check it out with me to look it up or do. You know this? Yeah. No, I don't know. OK, I feel like I feel like this is a setup well. It could be a setup, I don't know. Let's see, it's loading next Tuesday at 5:00 PM. 5:00 PM. How soon do the players need to be there? Me I I usually say like 4-15 would be great knowing that 415 won't get there till 4:30. OK. All right. So you give them like a 15 minute buffer. Yeah.

40:57 So it's totally reasonable for your players who are on the chess club to go to their SKISA chess tournament that day if we get back between 4:00 and 4:15. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They should do it. That's great. They can get back. I had people. Yeah, it's great. OK. Yeah. All right. So I need you to tell some specific players, Yes, you can go. If they if they can get back by 4:15, great. I would have liked them already to go at 4:15 just because I know it won't be real sick like 4:30. I'm always going early, you know what I mean? It's fine. Yeah, I won't want to say names because Leanne told us we couldn't, but we can say Jonathan's child. He's not one. I think he's, yeah, he's definitely going to the chess. Nice.

41:40 But there's one who speaks another language. I usually have more than one that speak another language. So that's not, yeah, a Slavic. Yeah, I like it. I'm like, yeah, you can go. And he's like, I don't know if I can go. I mean, I have kids. They went to like they, I think they travelled to Columbia for a archery tournament and made it back in time for practice. And I was like, you guys are awesome. That's great. Like if you can like manage your responsibilities, do it. And I can be like on, I can be like, we got to go whether the award ceremony is over or not. We got to go, 'cause I got to get guys back. But also I I've had parents just show up and like as soon as that last game's over, take kids. Oh yeah, before.

42:21 'Cause I got I do have to pack up. There is a short award ceremony. I think because they probably don't. How many tournaments do you guys have in chess? Just two. Like, yeah, that's a big deal. You know what I mean? That's and it's good if they can. I like it when kids can do it. Yeah. And 5:00. We'll see, yeah. Like like a time it's no, it should be fine. I mean, obviously if there's a major accident on 95. Go around it, we can. Just go through touch through you know you can never. And you're driving. Walk me through. It's not Jonathan White walked me through and he told me it's not bad at all. Driving the bus makes me nervous. Are you driving like a bus or? Yeah, I'm just driving one of those little people movers. Yeah, the fourteen person bus, so should be fine. Not bad, yeah. I'm. Done. I'm saying I've never driven one of those before, but the very first time Friday. Yeah, the very first time I drove a bus for a couple times I was like, but then I'm like.

43:10 It's not that bad. Am I taking corners too fast? Am I? Yeah, that's good. I love nothing makes me at least. I think you are supposed to stop at railroad crossing. Oh, that's good to know. So I. Do yeah, some of our buses have it written on the back. This bus stops at railroad crossings, the new ones. So for those I definitely. Definitely do. That's smart. Yeah. There's nothing that excites me more than driving from Northwood to James Island at like 4:30 in the afternoon on Friday. Just I'm excited for that. In a rectangle, yeah. Yeah. That's the there's no self driving for this. I know, man, I'll be where's that self driving button? Hey and we can wrap it up and going on hey. No, we got 40 more minutes of.

43:51 We got. I'll save it for another episode. I'll ask. It'll be two too much, but it's good. I've been I've been enjoying soccer. I'm just hoping, hoping the kids are enjoying it too. You know I. Think so, Some of them said you're too nice. Oh, who said this, Steve? Told me off there. Yeah, we'll talk. We'll talk. All right. All right. Great. You gotta. You gotta get the. Yeah, like the smack. Down. You need that moderate to severe temper out there. There you go. Yeah, I love it. Anything else you got? No, I, I'm good. I love it. Well, that's our take. Thanks for listening to Take Two. Find us wherever you find podcasts and on YouTube for those who want to watch our video cast.