Cults | Roman Catholicism: Who Has Authority in the Church?

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Roman Catholicism, Yes, it's a
cult.

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Definitionally, I feel like we
always have to.

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We always have to, you know,
define our.

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That's right, that's right.
Now we happen to be recording on

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the day that our first Roman
Catholicism video hit.

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So this is Thursday, so it just
hit this morning.

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Expected.
Honestly, I was surprised we

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have 1 positive comment from
Reformed.

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MDI was expecting to get, you
know, beat up, but maybe maybe

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they're so used to kind of like
another, another video.

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Because it almost a lot of the
other episodes have garnered

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like at least a handful, with
one garnering much more than a

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handful.
Right.

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Yeah, a recent one on the Black
Hebrew Israelites had a lot and

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I was one of them commented, Oh,
thanks for letting me know.

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I'm not a Trinitarian.
And I'm like, and I offered

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like, hey, you're Black Hebrew
Israelite.

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Like I'd love to hear what you
believe.

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Because in our show notes we
said that one of the weaknesses

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of this podcast show is that
it's hard to nail down theology

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because they don't have a
centralized doctrine like the

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Catholics do.
So.

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Yeah, this is great.
And we're hitting on the really

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$1,000,000, you know, authority
and they have an authority

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which, you know, if you talk to
the Catholic that that's what

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they appeal to you.
Like you silly Protestants

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believe a million different
things or you know what I mean?

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Like they're like, we've got.
So the benefit of them having a

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source is that you can be
talking the, you know, hopefully

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be talking on the same
wavelength.

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Yeah, that's really good.
So we kind of alluded to it, but

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we're using the word cult in the
academic sense, not pejorative

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sense, not the cultural sense,
but just to talk about a major

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religion that goes by a name
that has differences in their

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major doctrines.
And last time we said, hey,

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their view of God, great.
Their view of the Trinity,

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great.
But so our last episode, you can

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check it out, was on the gospel
and how we believe that they

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distort what the gospel is in
the Bible.

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And then this episode is on
authority.

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Like, what is the ultimate
authority?

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Good question, good question to
ask all of these things we've

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been asking it.
That's right.

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I'm excited to like Deep Dive.
In this episode, All right,

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well, let's take it to the next
level.

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Let's fire up that twang of
music.

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From the hearts of the Low
Country in South Carolina.

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It's the Take Two podcast where
we take theology to the next

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level.
Roman Catholicism.

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What is their authority?
And this I guess you could have,

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perhaps one could argue you
could have a separate authority

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and still not be heretical.
It's still not be a cult because

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we believe all the same things.
But the the problem is when you

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have a separate authority that
is equal to or maybe in some

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practical ways higher than
scripture, then that leads to

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abuse.
You know, I think you nailed it.

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It's like everyone can say they
have two or three or four or

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five authorities, but like who?
It's like mom has authority and

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dad has authority, but it's like
who has the final say if things

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aren't lining up?
Because I think as we maybe

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progress in the series, we, you
could argue, hopefully you would

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argue things don't line up like
what who wins?

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Because that's where I think it
breaks breaks and there's a

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clear winner in Catholicism.
And so in some of our previous

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episodes, we kind of just
delineated the difference and

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said, hey, there's a big
difference here.

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We didn't necessarily argue for
our side this episode.

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We are going to, in the previous
Catholicism episode, we do spend

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a little more time arguing the
Protestant point of view on all

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this.
So let's just jump right into

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it.
If you know your history, oh,

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'cause this is what this is.
You know, if you are a Roman

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Catholic and you're listening to
this, I'd love for you to

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respond to this because there
was a Pope Gregory the Great.

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Because the claim is all the way
back to Peter.

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Oh yeah, yeah, all the way back
to.

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Peter, like all the way back to
Peter.

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So Peter he has.
No.

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You've heard of Peter.
Yeah.

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First Pope.
Yeah.

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Right.
Right.

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So there was a Bishop of Rome
and maybe maybe he didn't call

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himself Pope, I don't know.
But there was a Bishop of Rome,

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Gregory the Great around 590 to
6 O 4AD and in an epistle 5.18

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he wrote around 595 he said
whoever calls himself universal

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Bishop is the precursor of
Antichrist boy and he makes this

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argument.
No Bishop should claim universal

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jurisdiction.
Such a title injuries the unity

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of the episcopate, and Christ
alone is the head of the Church.

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He was the Bishop of Rome, and
he rejected universal supremacy.

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Seems like Rome's an important
place in Catholicism, that

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universal rejection.
And yeah, that'd be interesting

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to see.
You know, a, a strong Catholic

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knows their history.
Like, what's the deal with the

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argument Be like, oh, well, you
know, and he wasn't, he's

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speaking for himself there.
He was not speaking ex I'm

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guessing.
That's what what how the

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response would be like.
We didn't say popes are

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infallible, just the magisterium
and says since it wasn't a

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council he wasn't speaking ex
Catharida then.

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These don't necessarily help,
but it seems like he had a very

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different idea of what his role
was than what it became to be.

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Yeah, seems explicit.
So I like tracing some of this

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history.
You want to Fast forward about

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150 years, 100?
And 50 years, six O 680 Emperor

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focus.
I guess that's how you

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pronounce.
That you don't hear about this

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guy a lot.
Gregory the Great heard of

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Focus?
Not as much.

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Recognized the Bishop of Rome as
the head of all churches, Pope

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Boniface the Third accepted it.
And from this point on, Roman

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primacy language shifts towards
universal jurisdiction and the

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concept of papal supremacy is
strengthened.

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That's great.
So this is kind of like this is

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at least an explicit line in the
sand where this happened.

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I'd be curious for if you're
listening Roman caps point to

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earlier sources, that kind of
thing, 'cause that's what it

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appears at least very in your
face like this is we can start

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seeing this trajectory.
Yeah, if you're a Roman Catholic

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and we're missing something, let
us know.

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Or we'd also like to hear how,
if how you understand these two

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things working together.
OK.

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You may have heard of someone
say Vatican 1, Vatican 2,

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Vatican 1 being much more
strict.

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Vatican one came about 1870, and
it dogmatically defined these

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two points, papal universal
jurisdiction, papal

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infallibility, when it is ex
Catherine of statements like

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speaking from the chair.
And so this would be, yeah, you

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know, very different than what?
Sounds like it.

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The first Gregory would be like,
what are we?

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What are we doing?
Yeah.

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And so the, you know, the
question that might arise is how

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did this develop?
And is this like a reversal, you

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know, was there, were there some
confusion?

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What's what's going on?
Cause 'cause at least when it

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comes to the first few creeds,
it's like some people ask, why

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did this happen?
You know, quote, UN quote so

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late.
A it really wasn't that late.

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And it's when controversy arose.
Seems like controversy arose

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before 1870, or you know what I
mean, too.

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So this is this.
I like this.

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We'll dive into that question
about the Canon.

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This is, like always a argument
you might see.

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Right, so if you talk to a Roman
Catholic, they may say we define

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what the Bible is That and I I
guess they would have to argue

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that that I don't know if the
word is power, but authority

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resides in the church to put
their stamp of approval on

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certain books as being in the
Canon and not but that's not

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actually how the Canon work.
Well, because we had list of

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what was in the Canon, you know,
200 and 300 years before this,

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Pope Boniface the Third finally
accepted this role as the

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universal Bishop.
So if you were to read, I think

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it's called Canonicity, but it's
by Michael Krueger.

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What a guy.
I love that guy.

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So you can go out and find he's
got a couple books on how the

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Canon developed.
But yeah, so you can go out and

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find more detail than what we're
going to give you.

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We're going to give you a broad
brush overview.

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So we know the apostles wrote
Scripture.

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And really, if we could tie
Scripture to an apostle, then.

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They're covering a lot of bases.
Yeah, then then that was almost

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universally accepted at that
point.

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So all of Paul's letters,
Matthew the first Gospel, John

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the last Gospel, Mark got
accepted because he was

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companion of Peter.
Luke got accepted because he's a

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companion of Paul.
So you could throw in Acts,

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Yeah, Revelation, John, it's
like Hebrews.

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Hebrews was assumed to be
Pauline and so it was initially

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added on that basis.
We look back at it and we go

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maybe not Pauline, but it sure
does seem like scripture.

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James Jude were on were
questioned at first because they

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didn't know necessarily could we
be for sure along with I think

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Peter's epistles were questioned
because we couldn't be for sure

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because there were a lot of
people writing about, you know,

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during this time and so but a
Brown 150.

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I think maybe we should look at
our notes.

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So the apostles wrote letters
and gospels.

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These writings were copied and
circulated between churches.

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Paul's letters were already
being collected and treated as

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scripture by the time Peter
wrote his second epistle, 'cause

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if you read Second Peter
3/15/16, he talks about some of

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Paul's writings and he refers to
them as scripture.

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Yeah, that's big.
The Gospels were read publicly

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in worship alongside the Old
Testament.

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So they have this peer
relationship in the synagogues

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and stuff and in churches.
So we see Scripture functioning

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as scripture way before any
formal list came around.

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Super organic.
It just seemed like like we're

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we're saying kind of goes
together with with these

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apostles.
It made it made a lot of sense.

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There's really not one you can
be like, hey, that was way out

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of left field.
You know what?

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I.
Mean.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's none.
Yeah, there's.

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I mean, I guess if there was, we
probably wouldn't.

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Have they didn't accept, right?
Yeah, yeah, exactly right.

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So this is what I was talking
about.

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By the 2nd to 3rd century,
around 180 or so church leaders

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across different regions, they
you know, were citing the same

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core books.
Irenaeus firm the four gospels

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and the Mercurian fragment.
I'm sure I'm saying that wrong.

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Meritorian fragment late 2nd
century lists most of the New

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Testament there Tertullian
origin reference and emerging

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widely accepting septic
collection.

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So you see this organic
development around what's

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actually in the Canon.
And it wouldn't be until

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whenever Martin Luther, what was
that, 15 something when they had

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the Council of Trent where they
would say, you know, these books

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are the the other books are in.
Yeah, so.

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Yeah, that is, that is
interesting that it like we were

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saying these creeds are in a
response that was directly in

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response to reformation and then
they're adding in, you know,

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these different deuterocainen or
whatever.

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Not only that, it was diverse
across geographic regions.

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We're kind of recognizing these
things too, whether you're in

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Rome and North Africa, Asia,
Asia Minor, which is modern day

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Turkey, Alexandria, Egypt, very
diverse where it's not like Rome

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was driving.
All of you know all this is kind

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of what's happening in the early
church.

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That's very good.
All right.

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So as you mentioned, there were
some local councils that

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convened 4th century council,
such as Council of Hippo and

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393, Council of Carthage,
390-7419.

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They formally listed the 27
books of the New Testament that

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we have today.
These councils did not create

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that scripture.
They did not say something like

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by our authority we are putting
these in here.

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They were recognizing the
authority that was inherent in

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Scripture.
So we believe that when an

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apostle, capital A of Jesus
wrote and it was inspired by

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00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:04,120
Scripture, his writing was
different then you know,

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Josephus's writing, you know,
Josephus, that's right.

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It's fairly historically
accurate.

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00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,120
You know, even if you had
something that was 100% accurate

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would not make it Scripture.
So what these councils is, they

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00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:20,480
looked at these books, these
books from God's apostles, and

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they said they recognized this.
Is scripture it like measured up

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00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:27,920
and in some sense you would
think.

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I'd be curious as we dive in
more to Catholic dogma, you

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00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,880
would think a lot of what they
would say at councils would be

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00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:37,800
like, hey, this has always been
the case.

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00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,120
We're just like ratifying it as
well, you know what I mean?

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00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:41,240
Like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So what?
What's the criteria?

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00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,520
What?
What were the parameters that

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00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,240
the early church applied as they
were seeing which books measured

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00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:49,240
up?
Yeah, it's good.

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00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,720
We kind of did already speak a
little bit to this.

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00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,080
We talked about Apostolic
authorship or close Apostolic

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00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:01,440
connection to the authorship.
Obviously if there was a book

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00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,120
that said, you know, had Paul's
name written on it, but it just

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00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,320
seemed totally antithetical to
other Pauline and other

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00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,680
scriptures, you'd go, this
doesn't make sense.

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There's no way we could marry
this up.

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00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,560
So there had would have to be
some type of consistency there.

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00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,880
As you mentioned before, you'd
want widespread recognition of

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this North Africa, you know,
Europe, Middle East, you know,

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00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,080
Asia Minor, all those places
that the church was spreading,

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00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,160
you know, you if they all said,
Oh yeah, this, this is

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00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,200
scripture, that would be good.
And then, you know, some

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00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,600
doctrinal coherence with
received Apostolic teaching kind

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00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,040
of goes along with our second
point.

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00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,280
So those books were recognized
because they bore inherently in

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00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,520
themselves Apostolic authority.
Now I like I like this next

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00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,080
point.
It's kind of like a practical

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00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,440
outworking of of these books,
you know, really big.

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00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,760
The big picture is the church
did not stand above scripture.

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00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,080
If you look at how it actually
practically bore out.

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The church submitted to the
writings that it recognized as

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00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,400
as being books, had divine
authority.

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00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,160
And what what you see is that
Scripture shaped the church

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00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,800
before the church was like, this
is scripture because it wasn't

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00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,600
formally until much later.
It wasn't like, oh, now we have

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00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,280
to listen to Galatians.
It was kind of like we're

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00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,120
submitting to that now.
It was binding on us when it was

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00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:21,640
written.
What?

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00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,440
Do you think about Paul's letter
to Tim and Titus, two young

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00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,280
pastors, and like, hey, you need
to go have your members do this

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00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,040
and you can, you know, I'm
telling you to do this.

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00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:31,240
It was like.
And they weren't like, well,

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00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,760
Rome didn't tell me yet.
Like I'm waiting on Peter to

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00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:39,360
give you the thumbs.
Up probably Paul May.

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00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,720
Yeah, right.
At least by second Timothy and

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00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:51,320
secularity problems.
So when you do look at the, you

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00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,760
know, so if you talk about Peter
being the first poem and stuff,

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00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,920
and we don't, obviously we don't
take that scripture that they

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00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,960
use about Peter being the rock.
We don't interpret it the same

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00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,760
way.
But even if you did, you do have

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00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,400
a circularity problem because
they're looking at that

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00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,880
scripture to say this is what
appoints our Pope.

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00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,440
Peter was installed.
We know that because of the

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00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,760
Scripture.
It's by the scripture that the

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00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,560
church gets our authority.
But then they're saying that

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00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,600
through the church's authority,
they are telling what the Canon

295
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,640
is.
So just to read it formally, the

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00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,320
church establishes the Canon,
the Canon and establishes

297
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,200
Petrine authority.
That's Peter Petrine authority

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00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,440
at establishes the church.
Therefore the church's authority

299
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,200
validates the Canon.
And obviously, hopefully you can

300
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,760
see the the circularity there.
If Rome's authority is required

301
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,320
to validate Scripture and
scripture is required to

302
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,400
validate Rome's authority, then
neither stands independently.

303
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,280
And I'm sure someone will say,
yeah, it's they're like they're

304
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:54,960
the three legs of the stool.
It is.

305
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,640
But there is a logical
circularity issue there.

306
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,360
Flip it to Protestantism, you
know, authorities.

307
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:03,840
We would say authority's a good
thing.

308
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,520
There's different levels of
authority.

309
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,720
Fathers have authority, elders
have authority.

310
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,640
Word of God stands more
authority.

311
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,280
We would say Scripture is that
Apostolic revelation itself

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00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,960
authenticating in the church.
It's kind of a custodian, not

313
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,200
not the source.
We want to carry out what the

314
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,240
Word says, and so because of
that, the Word of God creates

315
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,240
the church, not vice versa.
So you can kind of see the way

316
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,880
it actually out works.
Yeah.

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00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,320
So kind of the key point that
we're saying here is Scripture

318
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:41,280
functioned as an authority
before the Roman Catholic Church

319
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,640
ever really got off the ground,
before papal supremacy claims,

320
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,360
before universal just
jurisdiction, before Vatican

321
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:50,840
One, and before infallibility
definitions.

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00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:55,400
So the Canon was recognized by
the early Church as a whole, not

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00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,720
decreed into existence by a
single Bishop of Rome or a

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00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,800
council.
Nice.

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00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,120
Well if we move on down to
interpretation, this is like the

326
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,800
key with everything.
Even when you see things to me

327
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,360
go wrong almost anywhere.
Protestantism not excluded from

328
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:13,480
this.
It's because the one doing the

329
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,880
interpreting is is faulty with
it.

330
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,840
So a good question to ask like
who has final authority?

331
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,800
And when it comes to the
Catholic position, it's the

332
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,760
Magisterium gives its binding
interpretation.

333
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,520
Scripture must be interpreted
within the Sacred Tradition.

334
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,520
Private interpretation
insufficient.

335
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,800
You know, I think that can be a
weakness on the Protestant side

336
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:36,960
of things where someone's like,
hey, this is what this means.

337
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,000
No, no, it actually can mean
that, you know, there's a little

338
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,440
bit too much of that.
But the church is the final

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00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,440
Court of Appeal when it comes to
doctrinal disputes and, and

340
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,400
nails them.
So they, they have a, you know,

341
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,640
every passage I I guess is
through the lens of the

342
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,640
Magisterium and that's like it
or not, that that's where you're

343
00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:58,600
at.
Yeah.

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00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,360
And I want to be fair here
because I think even in our

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00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:05,520
Constitution we have a line that
says something like, for our

346
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:10,760
local beliefs and practices, the
elders are the final authority

347
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,600
of the interpretation of the
Bible.

348
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,920
And all we're just saying is
that, you know, we are trusting

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00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,280
the elders of our church.
If there is something that has

350
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,840
to be interpreted from Scripture
that would be, you know,

351
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:28,400
applicable to how we act as a
local body, that they're going

352
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,600
to have basically the final say,
not that we're not saying.

353
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,320
And that means they're
definitely right all the time.

354
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,240
It just means for our local
practice, you have to have

355
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,040
someone that says, well, this is
how we're going to do it here,

356
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,800
but we're not saying.
And if you do anything else,

357
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,880
you're, you know, out, out.
Out yeah, and there's methods to

358
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,520
remove elders if needed is
there?

359
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,400
And one of these in the Vatican
1 is there something to remove

360
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,640
the Pope if you need to?
I I wonder what the rules are

361
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,320
like, like if like you're like,
he was great when we started,

362
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,160
but he's a little bit off his
rock.

363
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,040
You're off the chair.
You got to stop through the

364
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:02,440
chair.
I'm.

365
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,720
I'm sure.
Well, yeah, I don't know.

366
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:05,880
I don't even know how that
works.

367
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,960
I'm sure the Cardinals around
him that's.

368
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,520
True have, some have.
Some influence and it can't

369
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,480
just.
Be like ex cathedra, I'm here

370
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,720
forever.
I said it all, right?

371
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,760
So.
Really, what it comes down to is

372
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:23,520
the unavoidable reality that
interpretation cannot be

373
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,920
eliminated because no matter
what you're doing, communication

374
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,880
requires, no matter where you're
at, it requires some

375
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,480
interpretation.
Yes, because if I wrote you a a

376
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,480
a long paragraph that explained
all of Rome, the book of Romans

377
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,200
to you, and you read that, you'd
have to interpret what I said.

378
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,080
Right, right.
You can't.

379
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:43,160
You can't escape that.
That's good.

380
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,040
So if a priest explains the
passage, the listener must

381
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:47,320
interpret what the priest is
saying.

382
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,040
The priest must interpret the
magisterium.

383
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,040
The magisterial Magisterium must
interpret Scripture.

384
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,520
Councils must interpret previous
councils.

385
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,000
The Pope must interpret prior
papal teaching.

386
00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:01,120
So you have this problem with.
Communication.

387
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,080
No matter what yours yours,
you're moving the target a

388
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,160
little bit.
And we're not saying that the

389
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,360
God has not, you know, God has
gifted certain people to help

390
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:11,720
teach Scripture better than
others.

391
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,000
We're not saying that that's not
the case like you have.

392
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,800
Some people are gifted and
teaching and preaching and helps

393
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,000
and mercy and so there's a
plethora.

394
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,920
So we're not saying that there
couldn't be someone who can read

395
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,080
and understand and interpret and
help explain it better to

396
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,760
people, obviously, but we're
just saying that's they don't

397
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,600
have a lock on just because of
their position.

398
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,280
This is the interpretation.
And that, that's so good 'cause

399
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,760
it's, you know, if we disagree
about something or, you know,

400
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,920
you disagree with Craig Coco or
I disagree with John Piper, most

401
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,680
of the time it's a hermeneutical
like work.

402
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,080
At the same passage.
We're still holding the word.

403
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,320
I've got up.
It's like, well, I, I think

404
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,040
you're not explaining this or
taking this context or this word

405
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,200
into account where they're doing
the same thing.

406
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,320
But with what the Magisterium
has said, they're like, well,

407
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,640
they use this word, but this is
what I think the word means.

408
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,400
You're still making that.
You're still executing

409
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,240
something.
We just our focus on the Word of

410
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,560
God versus an interpretation of
the Word of God.

411
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:05,360
Right.
Yeah.

412
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:09,160
And so in that system, the Word
of God is the final authority.

413
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,880
That's right.
So if you tell me this is what

414
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,080
the word of God says, and I look
at the word of God and I don't

415
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,280
see that there, which is what
Martin Luther was saying is

416
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,320
like, unless I'm convinced by my
conscience and Scripture, I

417
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,440
can't, you know, recant what I
was saying.

418
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,200
So that's that's the final
authority.

419
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,760
All right.
So the biblical pattern is that

420
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:32,960
the word is self-sufficient.
It tells us its authority.

421
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,200
We do have some scripture from
Scripture.

422
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,200
I love that.
To demonstrate the

423
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:43,800
self-sufficiency, Psalm 19,
seven through 8, The law of the

424
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,320
Lord is perfect, restoring the
soul, the testimony of the Lord

425
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,360
is pure.
Making wise is simple so you can

426
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:54,400
notice your scripture itself
restores Scripture makes the

427
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,680
simple wise.
The power is in the word and

428
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,440
reading those ideas and having
them impact you and and not the

429
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,680
preacher or the teacher.
That to me, that is comforting,

430
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,200
where you're just a conduit.
And I think we see this even

431
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,280
more laid out in Romans 10.
This classic text says, how were

432
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,680
they here without a preacher?
So a preacher's involved that

433
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,320
man that means really important.
But that being said, the power

434
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,440
does not reside solely in the
preacher.

435
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,560
Faith, If you know the passage
comes from hearing and hearing

436
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,840
through the word of Christ where
the gospel is what does the

437
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,880
work.
The preacher is the servant, the

438
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,680
custodian, the one who's
carrying out the word.

439
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:38,040
It's not the source, it's not
infallible, but just a person

440
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,120
reeling what is infallible.
Yeah, another favorite passage

441
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,880
that you might hear a lot at,
well, at any church, but

442
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,720
whenever we have promotion
Sunday, Jack will will often do

443
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:53,720
this because Paul links
Timothy's youth to his maturity.

444
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,600
And he says the thing that links
those together is Scripture.

445
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,960
Second Timothy 315 through 17
Paul says from childhood you

446
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,280
have known the sacred writings
AKA scripture which are able to

447
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,600
make you wise for salvation.
He would go on to say all

448
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,120
scripture is God breathed so
that the man of God may be

449
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:13,200
complete equipped for every
work.

450
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,520
And so really this linking from
being simple to wise comes about

451
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,200
through scripture.
And there's no, you know,

452
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,400
Magisterium in in the middle
there.

453
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,080
And even maybe more explicit
than that is, if you will look

454
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,720
at Colossians 316 written to the
it's not written to Timothy, the

455
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:29,600
script.
Maybe you're thinking like

456
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,880
Timothy, that's the Magisterium
light or something.

457
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,840
It's like this is written Church
of Colossae.

458
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,440
It says let the word of Christ
dwell in you.

459
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,640
You all richly the commands to
the congregation.

460
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,200
It's not to be filtered
exclusively through the higher

461
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,360
ups down, but the average
congregate should really know

462
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:49,800
their scripture and I'm curious
to hear from Catholics on this.

463
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,920
I've got several patients who
have retired down here that are

464
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,880
Catholic by background and I,
this is anecdotal, picked up on

465
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:03,360
a shift where a lot of my older
patients like did not know

466
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:06,760
scripture like at all like
alarmingly did not know

467
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,520
scripture.
They knew like catechism things

468
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,080
did not know scripture.
I don't think they were.

469
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,120
I don't if they were just not
encouraged to read Scripture on

470
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:15,560
their own, so they would make
interpretation.

471
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,080
Some of my younger patients of
like they're like 50 are like

472
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,240
much more.
I, I read the Bible.

473
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,000
My ones that are like 80 or 90,
like they're like they just,

474
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,520
they never, they're like devout
Catholics never read Scripture.

475
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,280
And now the younger ones,
they're like more familiar.

476
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,520
I don't know if that's just
anecdotal.

477
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,320
I'm curious if that's like a
shift in the thinking or not.

478
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,960
I don't know.
Yeah, that is, that is, Yeah,

479
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,400
It'd be interesting to hear.
OK, the New Testament pattern,

480
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,280
the New Testament was written in
Koine Creek, OK, not high Greek.

481
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,120
Yeah, the common.
Not in Latin, not.

482
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:47,720
In this.
Yeah.

483
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,480
Well, yeah, in the Vulgate,
because we're going to talk

484
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,360
about this.
The Vulgate was put in the

485
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:57,520
vulgar language, the language of
the people, so that everyone

486
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,080
could read it.
Now, it's crazy that there were

487
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,360
people like, no, don't translate
it into the Vulgate.

488
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:04,840
We got to keep it in the Greek.
And the argument was no one's

489
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,680
speaking Koine Greek.
This these days, put it in Latin

490
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,800
so everyone can read it.
Well, Fast forward 1000 years.

491
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,880
No one's written.
Fast forward more King James.

492
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,480
It's funny, this thing that
keeps happening, but.

493
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,000
Anyway, yeah, it just keeps on
happening.

494
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,160
But you know, do not translate
it into German.

495
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,000
Do not translate it into
English.

496
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:26,560
And you know, I think it was
Witcliffe or Oh yeah, one of

497
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,800
those.
What's the other?

498
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,160
It starts with a Tyndale.
Tyndale.

499
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,440
One of those was like, you know,
I want every pile boy.

500
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:34,720
I think that's what they read.
I don't.

501
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:38,840
Know Scripture, it's good.
And so it and then like you

502
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:43,000
said, then we have King James
like we have to keep the King

503
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,960
James.
Don't put it in and it's like

504
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:50,320
guys, we want scripture to be
written in a language that

505
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,520
people can understand.
We want to be accurate to the

506
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,760
original, but also accurate in
the original in the current

507
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,240
languages.
So the just go back to our

508
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,560
notes.
It was written to ordinary

509
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,040
believers, circulated among
churches, read publicly,

510
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,960
expected to be understood and
obeyed.

511
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,560
That's the expectation, is that
the average congregate could

512
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:11,880
live it out.
Yeah, that's crazy.

513
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,960
Apostle assumed that the Spirit
works through the Word, that the

514
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,440
Word carries inherent authority,
and teachers are accountable to

515
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,880
the Word.
You and these people are always

516
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,760
going to shout out like, you're
going to find these people in

517
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,160
heaven and they're going to be
like, hey, I'm from Berea, so

518
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,400
give me my Pats on the back.
Because they were taught by

519
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:33,920
Paul.
I think it was Paul.

520
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:35,680
Yeah.
By by Acts 17.

521
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,720
That's really Paul.
And they're like, oh, we're

522
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,640
going to go back and oh, yeah,
it is Paul.

523
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,200
Examine the scriptures to test
to see if what Paul said was

524
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:46,600
true.
Like we're going to go back.

525
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,360
So Paul, an apostle.
And they still.

526
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:52,280
And they still like, hey, we
want to check this out and make

527
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,360
sure that it's right.
So they examine him by Scripture

528
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:57,680
as the ultimate authority.
Well, so let's go over some of

529
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,840
the structural the the, the key,
actually the singular key

530
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,440
structural difference, OK,
looking at Protestants versus

531
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,960
Catholics, Protestant
understanding is that scripture

532
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,880
is the final norm.
If you are a teacher, you are

533
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,120
serving, you are placing
yourself under the Word of God.

534
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:16,480
The Church, same thing has been
created by the Word and so

535
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,920
authority rests in what the
Scriptures say.

536
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,400
Roman Catholics believe
Scripture must be interpreted by

537
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,040
the Magisterium.
The Magisterium is the final

538
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,720
binding interpreter in the
Church stands as authoritative

539
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:33,000
guardian and interpreter.
The issue is really not about do

540
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,520
you need teachers?
Do you not need teachers?

541
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,800
The issue is, does the Word of
God authenticate itself as God

542
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,440
breathed revelation, or does the
institution?

543
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,320
Is that the one the thing that
authenticates it?

544
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,280
Yeah, and I just added this
little section to our notes

545
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,320
because just I think yesterday
or today I saw a real where a

546
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:58,000
Protestant was reacting to a
Catholic, but the Catholic was

547
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,760
saying, Hey, we have a three
legged stool of authority

548
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,200
Protestants, you have A1 legged
stool that easily falls over and

549
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:12,080
and there's a we've said by how
we are, are you Protestism does

550
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,800
lend itself to someone reading
the Bible and going hey, I

551
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,400
understand it to mean this and
going off and living in a crazy.

552
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,560
Direction where we get some of
these cults we talked about.

553
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,640
Start with that and make it way
off the rails.

554
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,720
Yeah, but.
There are, you know, to be fair,

555
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,040
there are some churches that
fall underneath the Roman

556
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,160
Catholic umbrella that, you
know, I, I, I hear stories, I've

557
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,760
not been there about some
animism down in Latin America

558
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,040
stuff.
So it doesn't just because Roman

559
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,080
Catholic tries to say, oh, we're
uniform doesn't mean there's not

560
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,960
variety there.
But all right, so to the three

561
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,960
legged school stool, the first
one, the sacred scripture, what

562
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:52,000
it is, is the word of God.
Obviously the Canon is there and

563
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,000
and then they would use as the
same scriptures that we just

564
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,480
read through.
And I always hear this.

565
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,440
You can correct me wrong that
Catholics, they really look at

566
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,400
the they would not call it the
Apocrypha.

567
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:02,840
They would say the Deutero
Canon.

568
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,440
That's like a that's like the
Catholic name.

569
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,160
It's like better it's got Canon
in there versus like Apocrypha

570
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,960
is more like Protestant, like
not pejorative, but kind of like

571
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,400
that's the apocrypha.
If you're like talking to

572
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,040
someone and they're like, oh,
the Deutero Canon, you probably

573
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,960
know where they stand.
Versus like Apocrypha, maybe I

574
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,360
don't.
Know just by using that word

575
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,000
yeah, that that's good.
The second, the layer of

576
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,760
authority is sacred tradition.
It's the oral teaching of the

577
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,960
apostles that's passed down
through the Church.

578
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,600
So what qualifies here are
teachings believing that are

579
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,600
believed to have originated with
the apostles, not necessarily

580
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,760
written down as Scripture
practices, doctrines

581
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,520
consistently handed down in the
Church's life.

582
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,400
I just like it when things are
written down, you know, so, so

583
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,280
when you're thinking about this,
they'll say like things like the

584
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,280
doctrine of the Trinity, It's
not like spelled out in the New

585
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,760
Testament, like, you know,
systematically formulate

586
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,960
articulated things like infant
baptism, the structure of the

587
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,920
church, like bishops, Apostolic
succession.

588
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,200
And then the I can't wait to
talk about these, the Marian

589
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,080
doctrines.
It's like, you know, these

590
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,280
things need, you know, tradition
to help out with.

591
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,520
And we might say you can
systematically define the

592
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,240
Trinity, but you're, I mean,
you're taken from Scripture.

593
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:19,960
It's not now the Marian
doctrines.

594
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,240
You're, you're pulling that out
of somewhere else, right?

595
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,600
Yeah, there's.
Yeah, I I'd be curious.

596
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:33,200
I'm not a historian buff on the
early church fathers, but do any

597
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,280
of them have any type of high
marks for Mary?

598
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,600
Like does she even show up there
in the like?

599
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,680
And yeah, I'd be.
Fascinated to know any of.

600
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,320
That stuff.
And then, you know, even you

601
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,040
look at yeah, it it that we
could do deep.

602
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,280
We're talking about Mary and
Doctrine's next episode, right?

603
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:51,600
So that.
So let's hold that.

604
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,560
We'll hold that again.
Make sure we sharpen our pencil

605
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,200
for that.
All right.

606
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:56,880
And then the third stool is the
magisterium.

607
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,160
What it is, is the teaching
authority of the Church.

608
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,080
It consists of the Pope, AKA the
Bishop of Rome, bishops in

609
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,640
communion with him.
So anything, these are the

610
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,680
things that qualify official
interpretations of scripture and

611
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,280
tradition.
So if they write something out,

612
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,640
doctoral definitions,
authoritative teachings on faith

613
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,480
and morals.
So there are different levels

614
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,920
within the magisterium, the
extraordinary magisterium.

615
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,560
These are a communicable
councils like the Nicaean

616
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,360
Council, the Council of Trent,
Vatican 1, Vatican 2.

617
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,440
When the Pope speaks ex
Catherine, which is rare, and

618
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,800
these are considered infallible.
Then you have ordinary universal

619
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,600
magisterium, consistent teaching
of bishops worldwide over time,

620
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,200
also considered infallible when
it's universally held.

621
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:46,280
And then you have like the
encyclidal pastoral teachings,

622
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,160
etcetera, authoritative but not
guaranteed to be infallible.

623
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,560
So they act as a system to
interpret and authenticate

624
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,320
scripture and tradition.
Gotcha.

625
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,320
And so they would say these
things come together, We got a

626
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,320
written scripture, we've got,
you know, this transmitted

627
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,200
tradition.
And then the Magisterium

628
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,840
interprets these things
together.

629
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,520
And they might say the
Magisterium is not above the

630
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:14,720
word of God, but serves it.
But and we're saying maybe in

631
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,960
the interpretation where and
again, we'll probably head

632
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,560
almost more with Mary and
Doctor, except that's like a

633
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,800
great one because it's it's
different than the trend.

634
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It is very different.

635
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:29,560
OK, let's so just going down in
our notes, the bottom line for

636
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,320
for what we're saying here, the
New Testament consistently

637
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,320
presents the Word of God as
living, powerful, sufficient,

638
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:43,160
able to mature believers,
Teachers serve the Scripture,

639
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,400
the word.
They do not stand over it.

640
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,720
In the moment an institution
becomes the final interpreter,

641
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,960
then that loot, that locus of
authority suddenly shifts away

642
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,880
from the word to that
institution.

643
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,440
So, all right, so we do want to
end on this question.

644
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:05,880
Good question.
Did did God come?

645
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,800
Did Jesus come as the God man to
establish an organization or an

646
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,520
Organism?
Now I get this question from my

647
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:14,960
boy.
Boy.

648
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:20,280
Who grew up as a Catholic under
Vatican One and he would say,

649
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:25,480
you know, did God establish an
organization to carry out all

650
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:32,400
these things or did he establish
a body, an Organism that and.

651
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,719
I would love if the New
Testament like gave us vivid

652
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,320
pictures to think about does the
New Testament.

653
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,840
Yeah, yeah, so it does. 1st
Corinthians 12 talks about us

654
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,880
being a body.
John 15 Vine and branches First

655
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,679
Corinthians 3A temple.
Ephesians 2 talks about us being

656
00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:51,760
a household or building this
build up with the foundation and

657
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,280
the the the Jesus cornerstone
and stuff.

658
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,480
So there's this headship
language.

659
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,200
Christ is our head.
Nowhere does the scripture say

660
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,560
anything like a single Bishop is
the head of all bishops, or one

661
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,880
governs the universal.
Church, if one does, it's

662
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,680
Christ.
Like, there's not this extra and

663
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,480
all of these things.
You know, you look, I think a

664
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,240
place Catholics appeal to
sometimes is this Jerusalem

665
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:20,480
council in Acts 15 because
they're like, there were council

666
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:26,560
or, you know, this was going on.
But what's so interesting is

667
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,320
Peter's not calling the shots.
No.

668
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,360
Like, you know, you see people
stand up and talk that maybe you

669
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,040
like, oh, I wouldn't, you know,
I don't know about this.

670
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,680
You know James is talking, Peter
does talk, but this decision is

671
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,760
collective among apostle.
James the brother.

672
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,600
That's right, not.
Jesus, not even the apostle.

673
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:47,880
So it's kind of crazy to where,
you know, it is, it is more

674
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,040
collective and not being driven
by, you know, one person in

675
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:52,960
particular.
Yeah, all right.

676
00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:55,840
We did say this.
My longer episode.

677
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:03,080
Was Peter the first Pope?
Was he established as the Bishop

678
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:07,080
of the church?
Obviously the key texts, Matthew

679
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,840
1618 through 19.
You are Peter.

680
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,840
And upon this rock I will build
my church, and the gates of

681
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,520
Haiti shall not prevail against
it.

682
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,880
I will give you the keys of the
Kingdom of heaven.

683
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,320
So this is kind of the central
text where we would, you know,

684
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,840
base if you're a Catholic base
this authority claim.

685
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,360
'Cause you would say clearly you
are Peter and on you on.

686
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,800
I mean, it's like that, that
you're making that connection.

687
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,960
Up there, yeah.
So do you know where they were

688
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,320
when this happened to be said?
Oh, I've been here.

689
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:38,240
Yeah, you've been there.
I've.

690
00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:43,080
Been Caesarea Philippi, Mount
Hermon, you can see like the

691
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,040
Jordan River is just starting.
It's crystal clear.

692
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,800
I think I might be Ethan Hughes
might have got in trouble for

693
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,480
like playing in the Jordan.
Like it's like it's so hot.

694
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,600
The driver, they're like, it
might not, but it's got the gift

695
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:55,920
shops and everything right
there.

696
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,800
But yeah, that I'm glad you
brought that up 'cause that's

697
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,120
like changes a lot of
understanding.

698
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:07,720
Yeah, because at the base of
Mount Hermon was this well known

699
00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:13,000
center of Pagan worship, a cave
known as the Gates of Haiti.

700
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:18,040
Or the gates like man insane.
And so Jesus references the gate

701
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,440
of Hades, and it has symbolized
spiritual rebellion and death.

702
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,720
Yeah, vile plays, like people
would go certain times of the

703
00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:28,960
year, these cultic rituals
involving all sorts of like

704
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,760
terrible, terrible things.
If you go back and look at

705
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,120
Jewish tradition, you look at
Mount Hermon, that that place is

706
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:40,880
associated with the rebellion of
the sons of God, you know, of

707
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,640
Genesis 6 and 2nd temple
interpretation.

708
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:49,040
And in this area, clay throat,
clay throwers getting goosebumps

709
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:53,120
right now, you know, associated
with giants, hostile spiritual

710
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,480
powers thinking Deuteronomy 3,
Psalm 22.

711
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,480
And this place, like you would
know, it's like very well known

712
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:04,440
for all this crazy stuff where
in in those days you just look

713
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,280
at that and be like, oh, this is
clearly like Pagan death

714
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,760
rebellion.
This is clearly not, this is not

715
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,640
Jesus.
This is not Yahweh.

716
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,320
Very different.
So Jesus is standing at this

717
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:21,760
location symbolic of all the
Pagan world, Death, spiritual

718
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,960
decay, spiritual rebellion.
And he asks his apostles, who do

719
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,320
you say that I am?
And Peter responds, right, So

720
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:30,600
we're going to give Peter credit
for this.

721
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,440
He says you are the Christ AKA
Messiah.

722
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,920
You are the Son of the living
God.

723
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,160
And then Jesus says you are
Peter.

724
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,160
And upon this rock I'm going to
establish my church in the gates

725
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,920
of Hades.
Not going to prevail against it.

726
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,200
So that context helps a lot if
we kind of drill down on this

727
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,400
rock a little tricky because
there's some word play here.

728
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,320
Peter Petras rock Petra.
So so when you're thinking this,

729
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,000
you don't.
The good news is there's not 100

730
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:00,240
options.
The options are you talking

731
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:02,760
about Peter got this word play.
So you might be able to draw

732
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,200
that connection.
It's a reasonable.

733
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,160
Connection it's definitely an
option.

734
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,440
You have Peter's confession.
We, you know, just just

735
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,800
mentioned, then you have Christ
talking about.

736
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,720
So we look at grammar, grammar,
context, all these things will

737
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:19,840
help us kind of get to the
bottom of what we're trying to

738
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,560
figure out.
Yeah, so context helps clarify.

739
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,520
Standing at the so-called gates
of Haiti, Jesus declares that

740
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:31,000
death's stronghold will not
withstand his assembly.

741
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,600
The emphasis is not on
institutional succession here.

742
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,760
The emphasis is on the revealed
authority of Jesus Christ, the

743
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,440
Messiah.
So the rock, we would say, is

744
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,840
best understood as the
revelation that Jesus is the

745
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,320
Christ, the Son of the living
God.

746
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,000
And we are a reference to
Scripture.

747
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,880
But we'd say that aligns with
scriptures like Ephesians 220,

748
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,600
where it says that we are built
on the foundation of the

749
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,200
apostles and the prophets, Jesus
himself being the cornerstone.

750
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,040
Jesus cornerstone apostles and
their teaching foundational, but

751
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,400
no single apostle is singled out
as the Supreme.

752
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:09,520
And when you go there, like a
lot of I think where this Pagan

753
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,600
worship was happening is like
right inside of like a cave

754
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,880
mouth where like the Jordan
starts and all this kind of

755
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,240
stuff.
Where I think like if you they

756
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:20,480
were such an abyss, like you
throw a rock, it would just take

757
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:21,800
a long time.
You know, you think some of

758
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,400
this, some of this.
Stuff you're Lord of the Rings

759
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,800
fan.
It's like where Pippin throws

760
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,000
the rock and it just goes.
Trouble for a long beat.

761
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,240
Me too.
I took the words in my.

762
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,720
Mouth that being said too, there
are like giant rocks here.

763
00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:38,280
It might be like I'm building my
Kingdom like in the face of all

764
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,200
like it was like there's like
other there's things going on

765
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,280
where a lot of options, but but
that's good.

766
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,320
The next question is, OK, the
keys binding and losing it seem,

767
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,120
you know, a Catholic might say
Peter's got these keys and he's

768
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:50,160
doing all the binding and
losing.

769
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,800
He's got all this power.
What's it actually say?

770
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,760
Well, in Matthew 1880 says
whatever you bind on earth shall

771
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,640
have been bound in heaven, and
that is given to all the

772
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,680
apostles.
It's the authority given to all

773
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,840
of them and the keys are not yet
necessarily uniquely Petrine in

774
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,160
an ongoing jurisdiction.
They represent a pause Apostolic

775
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,400
authority to proclaim the
Gospel.

776
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:17,240
And I would say that if you have
a local body that's following

777
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:24,120
the outline of Matthew 1818,
then you have a local body

778
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,760
exercising.
That context.

779
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,280
The authority, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

780
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,760
That is so good.
Galatians too man, Galatians

781
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,760
getting a lot of play in this
cult series.

782
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,960
Yeah.
Peter gets a post to his face.

783
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,480
Yeah, so it's very odd.
And I want to give, you know, so

784
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:43,880
I think if we had a Catholic
here, they'd be like, yeah,

785
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,080
Peter's not infallible, he
messed up.

786
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,400
But it does seem very odd for
this guy who is supposedly

787
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:55,080
wearing the face of the Church,
who is the Bishop of everything

788
00:41:55,720 --> 00:41:59,440
in Galatia.
He starts going back into these

789
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,560
Judaizers and kind of going
following their customs.

790
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,760
And Paul has to say, no, no
Peter, no Barnabas, this is not

791
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,840
what Jesus Christ came for.
Yeah, what you're doing is out

792
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,640
of step with the Gospel.
That'd be interesting to say.

793
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,160
The Pope today.
Hey, what you're doing out of

794
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,400
step with the Yeah.
We talked about the Jerusalem

795
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,480
Council, Acts 15.
Peter speaks, Paul and Barnabas

796
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,440
speak.
James renders the concluding

797
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,080
judgement.
The text says it seemed good to

798
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,240
the apostles and the elders.
It's a joint decision even.

799
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,120
Do we have this here?
I have to go.

800
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,080
It's been a while since I put
these notes together.

801
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,920
I'll say it in case we don't see
even the first Council of

802
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,640
Nicaea, Bishop of Rome doesn't
even go.

803
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,360
He sends 2 representatives.
What's going on, man?

804
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,840
What's going on?
Peter's self understanding first

805
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,760
Peter 51.
I exhort the elders among you as

806
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,600
a fellow elder.
He doesn't call himself Supreme

807
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,200
Bishop, Universal Shepherd, or
the head of a church.

808
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,280
He just identifies himself as
another.

809
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,760
Elder Yeah.
And I think all this together.

810
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,880
Christ as the Chief Shepherd.
Yeah, that's good.

811
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,360
I feel like we're hitting text
after text after text.

812
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,600
You think about all this, you
know what, what's what's the

813
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,400
point?
It doesn't point to 1 universal

814
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,240
like power holder in in Peter.
Yeah.

815
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,000
So I think we do have some other
things here.

816
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,320
I think we can summarize what
we're saying here.

817
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,160
Protestant, you know, just we
kind of argued for our position,

818
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,760
but I think, you know, the Roman
Catholics that they could say,

819
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,360
yeah, we disagree with your
interpretation, but I think you

820
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,960
will agree with this statement.
The Protestant position is this

821
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,480
scripture is the only infallible
authority.

822
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,720
Councils and leaders are
subordinate so they could get

823
00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:44,360
something wrong.
We always have to measure them

824
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:48,400
by scripture and the Church is
an Organism underneath Christ,

825
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,520
whereas the Roman Catholic
position is it's scripture plus

826
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,800
tradition.
Magisterium is a binding

827
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:01,280
interpreter of those pet papal,
papal, papal infallibility under

828
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,880
defined conditions.
So I think you would agree

829
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,720
probably with that.
So what we're saying is there's

830
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:09,720
a clear delineation between our
authority structures.

831
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,320
We think that's problematic.
Yeah, I would love to get some

832
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,360
feedback your Catholic person on
that thing, Michael said.

833
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,200
That kind of summarize because
at least I think we, you're

834
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,160
right, we can at least say that
maybe you quibble over some

835
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,520
details, but it's like you see
that divide is pretty, pretty

836
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,200
clear where there is a division.
Right, right.

837
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,280
Yeah, All right.
Great.

838
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,200
Anything else?
Do nothing else.

839
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,520
Final take clothing fiasco.
Clothing fiasco.

840
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,160
Yeah Yeah, I I should should
tell tell you you I I cannot

841
00:44:37,841 --> 00:44:40,760
cannot and and this this is is
on on me me. just got some

842
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:45,640
coaching gear from Northwood
that's great I need to I didn't

843
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,640
I clothing sizes are so hard
when you don't like try on stuff

844
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,360
like what do you normally wear
also I'll say for the lower

845
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,560
school like when we coach in
these coaching in the shirts

846
00:44:51,041 --> 00:44:54,241
Also, I'll say for the lower
school, like when we coach in

847
00:44:54,241 --> 00:44:57,760
these coaching in the shirts
much different sizing.

848
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,080
Yeah, yeah, than these clothes.
I just got like much.

849
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,480
Different.
So you asked for a small and I'm

850
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,440
guessing it's too small.
It's very snug, very snug.

851
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,840
Because when you said that day
that we were out there and you

852
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,800
your first, it was the missions
kick off.

853
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,680
So it's like the first Saturday
in March.

854
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,720
So like 3 Saturdays ago, almost
four or five Saturday, 4

855
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:19,280
Saturdays ago.
I was like medium and you're

856
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,640
like a medium would work.
But I don't even take a small.

857
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,960
I'm like, OK, I mean, he's not a
big guy, but I thought, you

858
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,640
know, Medium was probably.
Well, so this is the thing too,

859
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,280
The thing, the person you talked
to that has the printing shop.

860
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,560
Yeah, yeah.
Got me this small windbreaker

861
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:35,680
thing it.
Fits fine.

862
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:36,880
Perfect.
OK, great.

863
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,680
Yeah, this.
Thing that Northrop has it's

864
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,760
it's really nice gear, but it's
like it's like performance gear

865
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,040
that is like tight.
Yeah, I didn't realize this.

866
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,560
It's like really tight and it's
it's uncomfortably tight.

867
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,640
Yeah, yeah.
Which probably is fine.

868
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,160
It's fine to be uncomfortably
tight if you're fit.

869
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:56,520
It's not fine to be
uncomfortably tight when you're

870
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,280
not fit.
Because I have, I know exactly

871
00:45:58,280 --> 00:45:59,720
the type of.
Stuff, it's really nice.

872
00:45:59,720 --> 00:46:01,480
I really wish I got a medium.
I was like, oh 'cause these.

873
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,160
It's really nice clothing.
It's just a little snug, but I

874
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,080
have a couple.
Of those shirts and I just gave

875
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,560
them to Jill 'cause I was like,
Oh yeah, they're not too

876
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:12,120
actually fine and it's.
Like I wish there was like a

877
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,720
because most of my clothes, like
if I'm wearing a polo or

878
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:17,440
something small like and for the
Northwood lower school stuff

879
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,280
like the small was like they're
like big.

880
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,480
They're like shirts, like the
sleeves.

881
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,640
It's hard to hard to know.
But the good news is the shorts

882
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,240
they gave me are larges.
So I've got I've got like a very

883
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:30,960
tight shirt and that's like I
asked for medium shorts.

884
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,080
Like I know I'm sure medium
shorts will be good got larges.

885
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:35,760
The good news is they're like
not long.

886
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,000
I just have to.
They look like the basketball

887
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,200
shorts of like the 80s, late
80s, early 90s that we wore.

888
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:46,080
Down yeah, it's it'll be fine
get away with the shorts.

889
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,440
I can't really get away.
The shows fine, but it's a it's

890
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,800
a good it's a good combo.
The large shorts with the with

891
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,000
the extra small shirts.
Great.

892
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,840
So the fiasco continues.
It is crazy how kind of to take

893
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:04,600
that an adjacent topic, how
length of basketball shorts do

894
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:09,520
change from being like crazy
short to very long back to crazy

895
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,080
short.
And then there is some place in

896
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:17,120
Charleston that has a picture of
the pineapple fountain in

897
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,400
Charleston.
I don't remember where it is,

898
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:24,520
said some restaurant and it's
taken from I think from the 70s.

899
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,480
And you just walk by.
I'm like bro though, like

900
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,480
everyone is wearing like very
short shorts.

901
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,080
I'm like, this is crazy.
Like dude, just like it looks

902
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,480
like everyone's wearing boxers,
boxers or.

903
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,320
Something it is pretty crazy
where man, yeah, in the early

904
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:45,120
2000s, maybe like this 2003
range, man, shorts very much

905
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,160
below the knees, like all time
high.

906
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,680
Like in the NBA, they had to
make rules like shorts can't be

907
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,520
this big.
Like you gotta you gotta make

908
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,760
them shorter.
It's Allen Iverson was wearing

909
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,080
some like.
It's like we had to rein it

910
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,160
back.
In the late 80s or 90s, we call

911
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:00,880
those jams.
OK, they.

912
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,400
They, you know, I was like Dad,
mom, I gotta get some jams

913
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,400
'cause they would like they were
these huge things that like were

914
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,920
like oversized for your legs and
they hung down past your knees.

915
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:15,640
And then by, you know, 9697,
those were out like you did not

916
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,560
wear like you would be.
Oh, yeah.

917
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Laughed if you wore those, but

918
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,920
then 2310 years later, 2004
five.

919
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,400
Yeah, yeah.
And then yeah, man, shorts like,

920
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,320
and I, I, I do appreciate a
short that goes to like the top

921
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,600
of the knee, right.
But man, I don't, I don't like

922
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,560
it a ton shorter than that.
Like I do a little bit shorter

923
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:33,920
than that.
But once you're like halfway up

924
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,760
the time, like now, now that's
not, not for me, not the look.

925
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,160
I'm going.
For yeah, yeah, yeah.

926
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,880
But these kids, man.
So it's, yeah, it's it's insane.

927
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:45,760
Well, good.
We're at a pry an hour here.

928
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:47,920
Yeah.
Look back.

929
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:49,840
Yeah.
Well, we do have some time in

930
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,040
there because.
We've looked at some stuff

931
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:52,440
that's good that.
Was much better.

932
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,800
So it's not quite an hour, but
yeah, we should probably be

933
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,880
quiet.
Get out of this episode, get to

934
00:48:57,880 --> 00:48:59,640
the next one.
All right, I love it.

935
00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:01,920
One more Roman Catholicism
episode.

936
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:06,360
Yeah, on on the doctrines of
Mary and praying to Saints.

937
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:07,640
I think I like this.
This is good.

938
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,680
All right, Well, that's our
take.

939
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:12,520
Thanks for listening to Take
Two.

940
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,840
Find us wherever you find
podcasts and on YouTube for

941
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:17,560
those who want to watch our
video cast.