End Times 101: Historic Premillennialism

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Wow, 18 pages.
The granddaddy of the mall,

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historic pre mill.
Buckle up, right, we're gonna

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have to fly through some of this
and you might have to be exact

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time to move on.
This is my the view I would hold

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to and you know, I'm hoping we
don't get lost in the wizard.

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Keep it simple.
But my tendency is gonna be

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like, let's look at this detail
and this detail.

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Doesn't it just like, make total
sense?

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But honestly, not as different
as probably our last episode

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than I initially thought it
would be.

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I thought there'd be more stark
differences.

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Yeah, I think probably 'cause
you're, you got a progressive

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just be next to you versus.
You're so progressive, Michael.

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That's what, when I think of
Michael, I think it's just

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progressive.
I mean, if you had others, you

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know, you, you could have
another consistent

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dispensationalist sitting next
to you and it would be a much

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different discussion.
Yeah, so and that's why it's

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almost especially after I
learned that pre or post meal,

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there's no actual little
historic little rat.

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I don't know like how did I miss
that?

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Did either when it was first
explained to me someone was

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playing wrong or I just misheard
it, but I always thought that

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like there was this almost like
a pseudo millennial reign before

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he came and then they usher him
in to rain on earth for some

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time before the eschaton so I
didn't.

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But someone like it's, it's
'cause there's not a lot of post

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meals out there.
I mean, reformed MD maybe.

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I guess you're, you're on the
fence.

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What I would love to do.
I don't think we'll ever do it.

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It'd be great to have a podcast
with me and you reformed indeed.

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If he leans post mail, I know
he's like he was kind of I think

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he was talking to comment like
he's like in between and then I

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was thinking about someone else
that we run circles in to

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represent the AW mill view and
just like talk talk about.

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Family in Memphis anymore?
I don't have, I don't have any

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family in Memphis.
Yeah.

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So that means you either have to
come out to Arkansas or Reformed

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MD has to come here.
It would be cool to get like

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different reasons to talk about
in it.

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Like one thing I really
appreciate about reformed MDI.

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Don't know him, but I read his
comments.

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His comments are thoughtful.
They're measured and they're

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never like like sometimes
they're funny like they're not

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like they're.
Not off he sent me a a video

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today and I actually have not
watched the video yet but I

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could tell from the video what
it was and it was like it said

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this be when they're explained
the end times and it was.

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Like that, all the crazy, It's
always sunny or yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, I just sent him AI rolling
emoji, but it happened at work,

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so I didn't haven't I, I wasn't
like purposely not watching and

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I just couldn't.
But I was like, oh, I know what

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this is going to be, but yeah.
He he was saying something.

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I was like, yeah, when in doubt,
when in doubt, we can.

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You can always make fun of the
hardcore dispensational.

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I mean I not.
You.

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No, yeah.
Not you, not.

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You agree?
No, I agree.

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We can make Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's great.

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When in doubt, we can all go
there.

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Just kidding, but I'm excited
for historic pre mill so let's

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go ahead and take it to the next
level.

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Let's fire up that twangy music.
From the hearts of the Low

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Country in South Carolina.
It's the Take Two podcast where

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we take theology to the next
level.

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I and I almost titled this one.
You know, not all

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premillennialism is the same
slash.

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This is not your mother's pre
meal because it's probably not

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your mother's pre meal cause
'cause you think of pre meal you

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almost in in American
evangelical culture.

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I think dispensational
dispensational had the the

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chokehold for a long time.
Yeah.

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And I think if we can have a
podcast on a mill and post mill

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and there is no mill there, I
know that you know what I'm

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saying there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Then I think it's fine to have
even differences distinctions

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between historic progressive or
a hard line despy.

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I like that.
Yeah, though that that is good.

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I think the series has been good
for that.

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I will at the outset say a lot
of the thoughts I am sharing

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come from George Eldon Ladd, the
one of my favorite guys with

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already not yet kind of
breakdown.

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A lot of it's coming from a guy
named Fred Zaspel.

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He writes really well.
And then also a guy named

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Michael Schultz.
He's one of my seminary

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professors and he has such a
great presentation.

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He has such a great first name,
Mike.

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Let me get behind that,
borrowing heavily from some of

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his materials.
But the big idea, historic pre

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mill teaches that Christ will
return before a real literal

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future reign on earth.
Compared to dispensationalism,

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hardline dispensationalism does
not have this stark separation

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between Israel and the church,
does not have a pre Trib

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rapture.
We talked last week.

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Dispensationalism doesn't
necessarily have to have a pre

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Trib rapture either.
For someone who is historic pre

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mill, you know, Israel could
construct the Third temple

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tomorrow.
They could start offering

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sacrifices.
Israel could cease to be a

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nation tomorrow.
And I don't think a whole lot

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would change about their
viewpoint.

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It wouldn't affect things in the
same way that like a hard line

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dispensationalist might be like
everything has changed or that

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kind of thing.
So pre mill, a lot of

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similarities but some
differences.

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Of the first wave or hardline
dis bees, whatever we want to

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call those who do believe that
the sacrificial system will get

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started again 'cause I do
remember being younger and my

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preacher reading something about
them breeding for red heifer

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again yeah and so that was like
signs of the end times and.

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I think that's going on like
heavily right now.

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And they were like so close, but
there was like one blemish on

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this red heifer and they keep
like trying to get closer to and

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they've got.
To be a pure red heifer like no

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spots.
Pure and I think like the

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they're getting together like
all.

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The is this?
Is this prescriptive in the

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Bible?
Have I missed it or is this like

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in the Talmud or Masoretic?
Like where did the red heifer

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come from?
Have I just missed it?

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I, I, I think there is a red
heifer.

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We should, we should look this
up.

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But I, I, I let's, let's do a
little search while I start

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talking about some differences
in hard line dispensationalism

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from historic pre mill.
Historic pre mill sees more

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continuity between Israel and
the church.

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Not this strict separation.
You know they would look at

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passages like Galatians 3.
You know you're 1 if you are in

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Christ.
There's no male nor female that

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that kind of thing.
No pre trip rapture typically

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big difference really where I
want to spend most of our time

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is looking at just a couple of
passages.

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I want to look at one.
We've looked at a few times

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Revelation 20 because I think a
deeper dive.

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I know you don't want to base
every not not you, but I know

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like people don't, you don't
want to place put all your eggs

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in the Revelation basket.
But I'm like, Revelation is

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clear to me.
It's clear.

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There's a lot of things I don't
know about it, but it's like,

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man, it cannot be more clear.
So let's go ahead and open up

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Revelation 21 through 6.
I know you've read this for us a

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few times.
I'll set some, set up, some

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background, and then we'll read
this maybe a couple verses out

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of time and work our way through
it just.

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To note, it is number 19.
Oh.

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Numbers, I say.
OK, there you go.

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Good, good catch.
Institutes to red heifer I I

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mean, I guess I just need to
study numbers more.

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You don't do your you're not
you're not near like a numbers.

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Deep, I mean, I do the read
throughs, you know, and I get

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the big pictures, but I, I, I
can't say I've graphed it all

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out so.
And got to got to brush up on

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the red heifer theology.
Historic pre mill differs from

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Ahmil in the fact that it's 1000
literal real future reign.

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It's not not symbolic for the
present age.

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It's not a Millennium going on
in heaven right now.

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It's a future phase of history
that's literal in nature.

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One thing I do want to say too,
because we've talked about this

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on the podcast, you read
Revelation and I, I agree that

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probably the most natural way to
read Revelation is through this

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lens of recapitulation where
you're seeing the same view,

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same scene like over and over
and over and over again do.

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You think reading Revelation as
recapitulation or straight

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through, do you think that would
affect your theology?

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Because I could see any of the
views that we've talked about

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potentially reading it either
straight through or

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recapitulation and still coming
maybe to the same conclusion.

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And that's the point I'm going
to make.

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I think you can.
I think the charge is if you're

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pre meal, you probably just read
revelation chronologically and

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if you're like aw mill and smart
and you can like see the

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recapitulation and you can you
know, I I think that would be

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like how a lot of people frame
it, but I think.

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I mean there's even if there are
like 7 recapitulations, yes.

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Right.
There's there's bad things that

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happen and Jesus returns and
sets things straight and he

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reigns for 1000 years.
Yeah.

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And I want to make the point
that if you read I, I listen to

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a lecture.
It's free from Reformed

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Theological Seminary.
Actually, not a lecture, but a

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class by Doctor Michael Krueger,
who does a lot in apologetics.

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He has this great class on the
Book of Revelation and he uses

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William Hendrickson's More than
Conquerors.

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I think that's like one of the
30s or 40s commenters,

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Revelation that that really
talks about this recapitulation

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in detail.
And one of the go to texts, if

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you look at like go to texts you
got to read and they always put

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a recapitulation in between
chapter 19 and 20.

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And I want to show exegetically.
That's bad.

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Hermeneutics.
That's a.

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That's like a.
Forcing a system on there.

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Forcing it where you can look
everywhere else in Revelation

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and you don't have to force it.
It fits naturally.

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And that's when I want to spend
a little bit of time talking

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about.
For more context, if we were to

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zoom out, look at Revelation 19
and 20, I think, I think the

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average person would not put a
break there.

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You can read a lot of other
Revelation Revelation and put a

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break there, but I think you'd
have to be taught to put a break

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there.
Honestly, 'cause if you go

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through all the scrolls and then
you get to the all the trumpets,

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like there's a natural blank in
between those.

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Exactly, exactly right.
We're here.

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It's very very strange and
historic pre mill and

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dispensationalism would see
continuity and sequence between

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Revelation 19 and 20.
Revelation 19 ends famously with

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this rider on a White Horse, you
know, coming back.

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Revelation 20 is this
Millennium.

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I wish I wrote down the guy this
quote I came across and and in

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these notes, and there's a
couple on mills that were

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basically like, man, and this is
not a recapitulation.

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You kind of have to be his, you
kind of have to be a three meal.

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But but they're like, but there
is so we're on mill or whatever,

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you know, but so so that's like
what's at stake here?

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Is it clear?
Is it not clear?

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So real quick, I don't want to
get bogged out in the weeds too

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much, but three, this is from
Michael Schultz's presentation

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because I think it's so good.
There's three criteria for

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having a new section, a new
recapitulation, 1A new vision is

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introduced.
We we'll look at some of these

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two.
There's a major language change.

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The scene has changed or a clear
narrative shift.

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These would give you an
indication, hey, maybe it's a

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whole new scene.
So look at the look at the first

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00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:24,760
one.
No new vision.

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00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,760
If you want to pull up, pull up
Revelation 4, verse 2.

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00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,360
I'll pull up While you're doing
that, I'll look at Revelation

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00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,000
17, verse 3 and just just read
that verse.

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Sorry, I am feverishly turning
4.

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Verse 2 says immediately I was
in the spirit.

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00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,960
Behold, the throne was standing
in heaven, and one sitting on

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00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,200
the throne.
So John's in the spirit, chapter

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00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,080
1, he's in the spirit, 4 is in
the spirit 17 he was carried

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00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,280
away in the spirit.
And, and with this carrying

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00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,080
away, you're kind of in this new
scene, you see something a

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00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:58,640
little bit different happens
again in 2110 after 19/20/21 or

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00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,600
kind of all together.
You kind of see him carried away

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00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,040
in the spirit with a change in
the location.

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00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:07,320
It's very, very clear.
So first thing, we don't see

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00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:08,960
chapter 20 in the spirit
markers.

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00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,680
Like that's not, there's
definitely not a change there.

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00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:16,640
Is there a language change?
Actually, I would argue that

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00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:18,720
it's the opposite.
You actually see a lot of

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00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,600
continuity in language.
You see this in the Greek, it's

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00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,880
a Kai Eiden.
That's basically Then I saw or

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00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,240
and I saw and in chapter 19,
starting with the rider on a

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00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,840
White Horse in verse 11 it says
then I saw then verse 17, then I

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00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:38,920
saw chapter 20 verse one.
Then I saw 21 seven or 2111.

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00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,640
Then I saw 20-11, then I saw 21
one, then I saw.

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00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:45,120
So you kind of see the
sequencing that seems like this

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00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:49,080
all is kind of like the same
thing and going in some sort of

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00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:50,440
order.
You read a lot of the Ahmil

253
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,280
commentaries and they kind of
say, well, these aren't

254
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,320
necessarily in order.
They're not chronological and

255
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,680
they kind of like flip flop them
around, which seems strange.

256
00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:00,680
I'm saying it could happen, but
it's it seems like it is

257
00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,040
flowing.
Reading into something and.

258
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,360
Reading into when it's like it's
a continuous story, yeah, it

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00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,320
kind of signals because.
If it makes sense this way, what

260
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,360
what would indicate other than
your system to change it?

261
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,360
That's exactly because if order,
if order doesn't matter.

262
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:17,360
Like.
Yeah, what?

263
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,680
You just change it, whatever.
But what are we doing?

264
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,240
And so there's no language
change for a new vision.

265
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:23,760
And lastly, there's no narrative
break.

266
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,520
It's actually a very a
continuous storyline.

267
00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,360
If you look at Revelation 12 and
13, you read the story about the

268
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,360
beast, the false prophet, and
Satan.

269
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,640
They're all kind of together.
Some people have called this the

270
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,440
unholy Trinity or something like
that.

271
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,520
In Revelation 19, we see the
beast and false prophet judge,

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00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,760
Revelation 20, Satan's judged.
Kind of seems like we're just

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00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,360
recapitulating what 12 and 13 is
saying again.

274
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,080
Again, we're making like, why
are we breaking this up?

275
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:51,520
Kind of, Johnson?
Knew that this would be a

276
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,600
problem when he put when he
wrote chapter 20 and he broke it

277
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,520
up.
Yeah.

278
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,240
Also good to know the chapter.
Yeah, these chapters are not

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00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,160
inspired.
The chapter breaks that.

280
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,800
That's great.
So what we see is the same

281
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,000
setting, the same characters,
the same progression.

282
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,120
Not really a good reason to make
a change.

283
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,040
And without these
presuppositions, it's really one

284
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,000
continuous story.
Again, I think you'd have to be

285
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,320
taught.
You'd have to study to learn

286
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:21,760
that you should break these up.
Similar to the pre Trib rapture.

287
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,240
I don't think you find it in
scripture beautiful.

288
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,280
You have to.
You have to be taught that it's

289
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,360
there.
It cuts both ways where that's

290
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,320
the kind of thing a
presbyterian's gonna make fun of

291
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,360
a dis be all about.
But we're kind of doing the same

292
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:34,320
thing here.
You know what I mean?

293
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,800
So I'm so glad you you brought
that up.

294
00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,800
And cause honestly, I think it's
simply just bad hermeneutics.

295
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,880
It does not let the text speak
for itself.

296
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,800
You're really, I know
Revelation's like tricky, it's

297
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,240
apocalyptic, whatever.
But on some of this stuff that's

298
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,200
not even like you're just,
you're just putting your

299
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,160
framework over.
So anyway, long winded intro.

300
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,000
Let's read verses one through 3
and talk about the binding of

301
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,480
Satan.
It says, Then I saw an Angel

302
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,160
coming down from heaven, holding
the key of the abyss, and a

303
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,000
great chain in his hand, and he
laid hold of the dragon, the

304
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,280
serpent of old, who is the devil
and Satan, and bound him for

305
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,840
1000 years.
And he threw him into the abyss,

306
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,920
and shut it, and sealed it over
him, so that he would not

307
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,840
deceive the nation's any longer
until the thousand years were

308
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,200
completed.
After these things, he must be

309
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,480
released for a short time.
So we've talked about this

310
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,000
before, but I think it's
important to know we we start

311
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,480
out seeing an Angel descending
from heaven to earth.

312
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,000
Also, this is happening on
Earth.

313
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,040
This is not happening in heaven.
If you're kind of thinking

314
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,320
Millennium, it's weird, you know
that John is not saying this

315
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,080
isn't heaven right now.
It's actually on the earth, very

316
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,280
clear, the nature of binding.
Like just read some of these

317
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,440
adjectives and descriptors.
He seized, He's bound.

318
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,280
He's thrown into a pit, shut and
sealed.

319
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,120
I get the argument that it's
like he's bound but still has

320
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,040
some leash.
But when you read all these

321
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,280
words together, why are we
saying this so much if it's like

322
00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,760
it seems dramatic?
And like we've said in previous

323
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,160
ones, I, I 'cause I couldn't
stop myself.

324
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,400
It does seem like he still is
deceiving nations right now.

325
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,000
It's see, no, I'm so glad he
brought that up.

326
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,080
Fred Zaspel, in an essay I was
reading by him, he says, if

327
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,400
you're reading these words that
someone sees bound, thrown into

328
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,040
a pit, shut and sealed, you
would think Satan's

329
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:19,720
incarcerated.
He's not on parole.

330
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,160
And I like that.
It's like, it's not like he's on

331
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,080
house arrest and he's like
moving around.

332
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,280
It's like, no, this is like a
big deal.

333
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,680
He's bound.
He can't be on this awfully long

334
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,080
chain.
Also, what Fred Zaspel notes is

335
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,080
that you see, you see this, the
dragon, the ancient surface, who

336
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:35,840
is the devil?
Satan.

337
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,400
He's like using all the
different names for Satan and

338
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,120
putting them all together.
And that's all bounded that,

339
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,480
that that's sending a message in
and of itself.

340
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:48,240
You read Revelation 12 that
talks about Satan's defeat.

341
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,360
You, you read First Peter 5
walking about seeking whom he

342
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,480
may devour.
Second Timothy 2 says that Satan

343
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,920
takes men captive currently at
his will. 2nd Corinthians 4 The

344
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,160
God of this world who blinds the
minds of those who are lost. 1st

345
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,560
Thessalonians 2 Paul talks about
Satan opposing him.

346
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,440
Matthew 13 Jesus tells a parable
that Satan has permitted to

347
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,800
snatch away the gospel seed that
is sown.

348
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,040
It seems like Revelation 20
would be on a totally different

349
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,240
page than all of these New
Testament texts that talk about

350
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,560
Satan if he's really bound sees
throne.

351
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,000
It just seems very at odds with
the rest of scripture.

352
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,720
When you mentioned it, it just
seems this is not the best

353
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,480
argument, but I think it's a
good argument.

354
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,200
There seems to be a lot of
global deception.

355
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,320
Yeah, a lot of global evil
especially like I think maybe in

356
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,520
the, well, there have been
probably different times where

357
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:45,080
you see a large, I use the word
superpower rise up, especially

358
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,480
if it's Christian based.
And you think, all right, here

359
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:48,840
it is.
We're about to usher in the

360
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,160
golden age.
And it really reminds me of the

361
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,160
series we did on Ezra and
Nehemiah.

362
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,840
I just like you think this is
it, we're doing it.

363
00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,080
And like God reminds you, no,
you're not going to be able to

364
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,560
achieve this on your own.
I am going to send my son to set

365
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,560
this right eventually.
Yeah.

366
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:09,960
And so the Roman Empire, good at
the first, gets corrupt America,

367
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:11,520
some might argue, good at the
first.

368
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,600
Obviously, we had our failings
at the first, too.

369
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,320
And and then we maybe gone
through an old age and you look

370
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,120
at the debauchery that we're
experienced, right?

371
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:19,760
Now it's it's.
Crazy.

372
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,120
It you look at that, it is
insane.

373
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:26,880
I read this stack that in the
last sorry 70 million

374
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,600
individuals estimating.
I don't know how you estimate

375
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,360
this since the time of Christ
have been martyred half of that

376
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:35,840
or more in the last 100 years
like like crazy that that that's

377
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,360
escalating that much.
Would you and this is an

378
00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:40,120
emotional argument.
Would you tell the spouse of a

379
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:41,720
Christian who was martyred for
their faith.

380
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,640
So glad Satan's bound, glad he's
not, you know, deceiving the

381
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:45,760
nations.
Things are going great.

382
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:50,120
That would be a hard thing to
say, Amil individuals will often

383
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:53,440
say what Christ accomplished on
the cross was the binding of

384
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,520
Satan.
Is that going to be undone at at

385
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,560
one at a future date?
That's a weird thing.

386
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,480
Is there because, you know, I
don't have all the scripture

387
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,240
memorized.
So maybe there's a, there's an

388
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,160
argument that maybe I don't
know, but I, I thought what

389
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,440
Christ did on the cross was pay
for our sins.

390
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,880
And then then it talks about
taking captivity captive.

391
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,880
But to me, I understand that to
be Abraham's bosom rescuing in

392
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:24,280
that and like basically bringing
that to a more fuller

393
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,640
relationship with God so that
Paul can later say to be absent

394
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,520
from the body and to be present
from the Lord.

395
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,080
That's good.
But I don't see.

396
00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:35,200
Am I missing some scriptural
argument that would say that he?

397
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:40,040
Maybe you know, Reformed D or
someone can talk about the am I

398
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,920
and I could be wrong 'cause I'm
not on mill if it's Christ on

399
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:47,480
the cross or something shortly
thereafter is associated.

400
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,480
I I have read and it might not
be representative of everyone's

401
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,920
views that in Christ out on the
cross.

402
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:54,800
One of the things that was
accomplished is this binding of

403
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,240
Satan.
And that's why the Millennium is

404
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,280
essentially, you know, ushered
in right now.

405
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:01,720
And maybe people don't believe
that.

406
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,240
I hope they don't because
you're, they're basically saying

407
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:05,640
one day that's going to be
undone.

408
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,760
And if if you're kind of tying
it to what Christ?

409
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,560
Your argument is if Satan's
going to be bound unbound, we're

410
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:13,480
undoing something.
Christ.

411
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,440
That's not the strongest
argument, but I feel like that's

412
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,400
kind of weird.
Anyway, also something to think

413
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,560
about.
Well, anyway, let's move on.

414
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,960
We're going to get bogged down.
Let's read verses 4 through 6

415
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:27,880
talking about the first
resurrection and reign.

416
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,160
Then I saw Thrones and they sat
on them, and judgement was given

417
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,360
to them.
And I saw the souls of those who

418
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:37,080
had been beheaded because of
their testimony of Jesus and

419
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,960
because of the word of God, and
those who had not worshipped the

420
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,600
beast or his image and had not
received the mark on their

421
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,840
forehead and on their hand.
And they came to life and

422
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,200
reigned with Christ for 1000
years.

423
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,040
The rest of the dead did not
come to life until the thousand

424
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,480
years were completed.
This is the first resurrection.

425
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,440
Blessed and holy is the one who
has a part in the first

426
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,720
resurrection.
Over these the second death has

427
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,320
no power, but they will be
priests of God and of Christ,

428
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,240
and will reign with Him for 1000
years.

429
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:06,840
Great.
Really what I want to hone in on

430
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:12,680
is the nature of this
resurrection Amil individuals

431
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,400
are going to really lean into
there's a spiritual

432
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,520
resurrection, not necessarily
physical.

433
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,440
You know that's why they're
raining right now, right?

434
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,440
Word study this is from Michael
Schultz's presentation is

435
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,280
basically every time that word
resurrection is used.

436
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:33,600
It's a physical, literal, bodily
resurrection and you kind of do

437
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,320
want to be careful with saying
that that's can be spiritualized

438
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,640
really nilly there, you know,
because then you run into all

439
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,640
sorts of sorts of different
problems.

440
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,160
Ultimately you they wouldn't do
this, but you know, you could

441
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,680
run into like some liberal
trying to undermine Christ's

442
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,840
resurrection as being Oh yeah,
he was resurrected, but it's

443
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,400
merely a spiritual thing, not a
bodily thing.

444
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,920
You look at other places in the
New Testament.

445
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,440
I don't think there's any good
reason to think that specific

446
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,520
word resurrection is used merely
spiritually.

447
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,440
Every other use of the Greek
word is literal.

448
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,600
There are, however, they concede
there are like in John 5.

449
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,880
It doesn't it's not the word
resurrection, but it's saying

450
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,360
let's, let's pull up John, turn
to John 5.

451
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:12,000
We'll see.
I'll see if I.

452
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,120
Can find this the Gospel of
John?

453
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:14,800
The Gospel of John that, that,
that's.

454
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,240
Right, I guess probably first.
John may not even have 5, right?

455
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,920
Five chapters, perhaps I'll.
See if I can find this. 2

456
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,640
resurrections.
It this is an example I think

457
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,320
that someone who all know might.
Let me read that section.

458
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,800
John, 525.
Maybe it's 525.

459
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:32,720
Yeah, read that.
What's that say?

460
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,200
It says truly, truly, I say to
you, an hour's coming, and as

461
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,440
now is when the dead will hear
the voice of the Son of God and

462
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:43,160
those who here will live.
For just as the Father has life

463
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:48,680
in himself, Even so he who gave
to the Son also to have life in

464
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,560
himself, and he gave him
authority to execute judgment,

465
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,800
because he is the Son of man.
Do you think this is it?

466
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,880
No, I think he nailed and my
point was there is language in

467
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,840
scripture talks about dead to
life that is spiritual.

468
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:03,800
The word resurrection however
though is always like a physical

469
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,240
resurrection.
So I.

470
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,680
Think he would say we are dead
in our trespasses and sins, but

471
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,000
God has made us alive in Christ,
but he doesn't say he has

472
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,840
resurrected you in Christ.
Exactly because I think the Amil

473
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,040
argument would be like, well, we
see these other places, but if

474
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,280
you're trying to not that that's
then they'll be all but trying

475
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,680
to, you know, hit hit a lot of
these different, different areas

476
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,840
where I think exegetically,
exegetically, you must take it

477
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,840
as a physical resurrection.
Revelation 6, it talks of

478
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,760
martyrs with Saints in heaven
like this looks like it's the

479
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,600
intermediate state since the
Lord is still going to carry out

480
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,040
vengeance for them.
That's different than Revelation

481
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,480
20.
If you can see these difference

482
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,280
in the scenes Anyway, we also
will keep, we'll just keep

483
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,880
moving on.
Can you read well?

484
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:51,120
And then we'll just summarize 7
through 10 is the final

485
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,600
rebellion that that's the big
stuff I want to read because I

486
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,240
think if you're arguing from the
texts, that kind of stuff.

487
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,120
See, I know you can't nail on
everything Revelation, but some

488
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:03,680
of this stuff seems like it at
least goes together.

489
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,040
You shouldn't isolate it, tear
it apart.

490
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,960
So 7 through 10.
Yeah, 7 through 10.

491
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:11,920
It's great.
When the 1000 years are

492
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,160
completed, Satan will be
released from his prison and

493
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,280
will come out to deceive the
nations which are in the four

494
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,240
corners of the earth.
Gog and Magog to gather them

495
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,960
together for the war.
The number of them is like the

496
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,640
sand of the seashore.
And they came up on the broad

497
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,920
plain of the earth and
surrounded the camp of the

498
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,560
Saints and the beloved city.
And fire came down from heaven

499
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,960
and devoured them.
And the devil who deceived them

500
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,760
was thrown into the lake of fire
and brimstone, where the beast

501
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,800
and the false prophet are also.
And they will be tormented day

502
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,080
and night, forever and ever.
So you see all three of them

503
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,200
together again.
It's like it's the end of the

504
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,720
narrative that started in 19.
I, I, I think that makes a lot

505
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,120
of sense.
And I've got this Bible 'cause

506
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:55,560
this is the Bible I was reading
or studying in when I was

507
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,440
listening to Kruger go through
his stuff.

508
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,920
And he does have a note here.
The binding occurs likely at the

509
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:01,720
cross.
He's like, we can't know it

510
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,800
definitively, but that's what
Reformed Theological Seminary

511
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,080
would kind of put forth, which I
think is a fairly good

512
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,840
representation of what a lot of
all male individuals might

513
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,960
think.
Let's move on to 1st Corinthians

514
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:18,720
15 and talk resurrection order.
And we'll try to move through

515
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,200
this quickly 'cause I think this
is helpful too, where Paul says

516
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,680
more than just, you know, the
resurrection happens.

517
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,680
But I think he's helpful in
giving us an order.

518
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,960
And this is a good thing to talk
through because I think each of

519
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,840
you would look at this and say,
yeah, I affirm this.

520
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,720
But they would kind of ascribe
different, different things,

521
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,800
different different terms.
So let's hone in on this word

522
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,720
order, each in his own order.
It's gonna imply sequence or

523
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,000
stages.
We read this a lot and Paul's

524
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,080
writing, even in verse five and
seven has this kind of word

525
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,520
where there can't, there can be
gaps in between.

526
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,040
I think he like appears to see.
It's like he's not appearing to

527
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,040
everyone right away, right away,
right away.

528
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,720
There might be a few days here,
a few days there.

529
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,200
All that to say, it's more of
the order rather than immediacy

530
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,520
is what we're going to try to
argue for historic pre mill.

531
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:16,200
So go ahead and read for us
verse 23 of chapter 15.

532
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,360
And before it is.
So the point you're making is,

533
00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:23,000
yeah, clarify even if things are
in order doesn't mean like that

534
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:24,760
it was immediately this, then
this.

535
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,320
There could be gaps in that
order and it still be in order.

536
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,160
Exactly.
Yes, that's the argument that

537
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,880
historic promote Treadmate.
Alright, so 23 says, but each in

538
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,000
his own order.
Christ the firstfruits after

539
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,720
that, those who are Christ at
his coming.

540
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,560
So let's focus on Christ the
firstfruits, Jesus's

541
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,080
resurrection.
That's the beginning.

542
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,520
That's the down payment, that's
the guarantee of what follows.

543
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,880
That's not the whole harvest,
just the first part.

544
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,680
And I think most people would
say that could happen and there

545
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,080
could there there is a large gap
between that and the second part

546
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,480
of that verse that you read
Those who belong.

547
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,520
Let's see how how it says those
who belong, then at his coming,

548
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,520
those who belong to Christ will
be resurrected.

549
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,400
So there is a huge gap.
Cause 20/21/22 the subject is

550
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,200
clearly being raised from the
dead, what we would call being

551
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,080
resurrected, not the being
spiritually made alive in

552
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,360
Christ.
So you have Christ resurrected,

553
00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:24,480
first fruits, big gap.
And then when Christ returns,

554
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,720
more resurrection will happen.
We would all say there's time

555
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,320
period between that there.
You have to, right?

556
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's keep reading verse 24.

557
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,080
Then comes the end, when he
hands over the Kingdom to the

558
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:42,120
God and Father, when he has
abolished all rule and all

559
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,800
authority and power.
So this is where it gets a

560
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,280
little bit a little spicier
between all the different views.

561
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,280
Then comes the end.
Allmil might be like, hey, we're

562
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,520
good, it's over.
Then then comes the end.

563
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,040
A lot of the interpretive
questions arise from here.

564
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,280
What happens between Christ
coming and the end?

565
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,800
So for historic pre mill, the
time the the sequence is gonna

566
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,320
look something like this, Christ
is raised.

567
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:06,800
That's past tense already
happened.

568
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,440
When Christ returns, believers
are raised, there'll be a period

569
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,480
of reign, this millennial reign
to follow.

570
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,440
That's really verse, verses 24
and 25 that we might read in a

571
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,720
little bit leading to verse 26,
the final defeat of death.

572
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,000
And then everything is kind of
the end because you read then

573
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,880
the end.
What I want you to read next is

574
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:29,120
is more of what follows because
there's like qualifying

575
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:30,880
statements about what that looks
like.

576
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:40,160
For he must reign until he has
put all his enemies under his

577
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,840
feet.
The last enemy that will be

578
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,600
abolished is death.
So, so me as a historic prima

579
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,440
looking at this, I would say
Christ reigns and then comes the

580
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,520
end.
But but the end doesn't come

581
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,880
until all enemies are defeated.
And that that's progressive.

582
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,320
It's a phase.
It's not in one decisive moment

583
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,080
that could look like the
Millennium, where maybe you have

584
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,440
some unsaved individual.
You know what I'm saying?

585
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,440
Like if you're eventually
conquering and then when death

586
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,280
is conquered, then the end.
Yeah.

587
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,720
And you might say, I, I can hear
someone say, well, why like

588
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,920
Christ could God could defeat
everything.

589
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,640
But there's if, if according to
Revelation 20, we just ran read

590
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,680
that the Saints who were
faithful and the martyrs are

591
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:26,440
reigning with him.
There's probably growth that's

592
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,280
they're going to experience and
they're also going to see sides

593
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,160
of God that are going to bring
him glory.

594
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,320
Like just like this life right
now, we are growing in a certain

595
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,880
way and we see God's glory
revealed in certain ways.

596
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,600
I'm assuming that when we get a
resurrection bodies and we see

597
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,200
Christ reigning literally, that
there are going to be things

598
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,520
that we can't even imagine.
Like, oh, that makes sense.

599
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,800
We get to experience this here.
And we would not have known that

600
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,520
if this particular phase did not
happen.

601
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,680
I think that's really, really
good.

602
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,360
And looking back at verse 26,
the last enemy to be destroyed

603
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,120
is death.
Death is destroyed really at the

604
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,080
end.
And so the implication is

605
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,760
there's a period where death
still does exist, but there is

606
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,280
conquering.
This fits naturally with the

607
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,400
millennial reign prior to the
final state.

608
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,720
Be fair to Ommils.
They would say, yeah, I agree

609
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,280
there's an order, but you got to
make it a little more more

610
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,160
tightly.
These long gaps, like they're

611
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,600
they would say you're reading
those long, long gaps into the

612
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:22,840
text.
I would say you might be right

613
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,440
if there wasn't like all this
qualifying stuff at the end.

614
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,720
If it just and.
Then there's already a gap.

615
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,360
So it's like the the thing, it's
not, you know, the precedent has

616
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,960
been set.
So the three markers on this

617
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,000
timeline, Christ's resurrection,
Christ's return, the ends.

618
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:42,840
And we mentioned gaps between
this.

619
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,600
So anyway, that's First
Corinthians 15 'cause I think

620
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,160
that is hotly contested.
Very briefly running through

621
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:53,240
some other passages that I think
are pertinent, Luke 1911 through

622
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,320
27.
We probably don't have time to

623
00:30:55,320 --> 00:31:00,160
read the whole passage, but if
you want to read verse 11 while

624
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,000
you're turning there, this is
like the parable of the 10

625
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,480
talents, the 10 Minas.
Some did well, some did poorly

626
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,320
with what they were given.
Very familiar story.

627
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,760
Go ahead and read verse 11.
While they were listening to

628
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,960
these things, Jesus went on to
tell a parable because he was

629
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,840
near Jerusalem and they supposed
that the Kingdom of God was

630
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,920
going to appear immediately.
Great, great.

631
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,120
So what's the reason he's hey,
think about it.

632
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,720
Why is he telling the story?
Because they supposed that the

633
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,720
Kingdom of God was going to
appear immediately.

634
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,240
He wants to correct this
misguided thinking, and he's

635
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,360
gonna go on and kind of tell the
story about a nobleman who went

636
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,720
to another country far away to
receive a Kingdom and then

637
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:42,600
return with power to reign.
Go ahead and read verse 13.

638
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,080
And he called ten of his slaves
and gave them 10 Minas and said

639
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,240
to them, do business with this
until I come back.

640
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,760
Great.
So we look at this and I think

641
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,120
the implication, not that we're
deriving all of our theology for

642
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,080
this, but the fullness of the
Kingdom won't come immediately,

643
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,480
but will come after the king has
gone away and returns.

644
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,160
And when it does, those who are
faithful will be rewarded in

645
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,440
reigning with him.
I think we see some of these

646
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,080
peril.
It's not that I'm basing my

647
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,360
whole end times on this, but I
think some of these gospel

648
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,160
accounts really mesh well.
Jesus told it for a reason.

649
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,600
Yeah, and the reason was they
thought the Kingdom was coming

650
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,040
right away.
And that this isn't just a

651
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,960
narrative where we see, you
know, Jairus doing something.

652
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,680
This is actually Jesus teaching.
He's teaching in a parable.

653
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,280
So we got to be careful, but but
it's not for nothing.

654
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,760
It's yeah, exactly.
That's I really appreciate a lot

655
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,480
of what Omil says in Part I
there.

656
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,160
I really want to believe Omil.
A lot of times all the cool kids

657
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:41,000
are doing it, but it's like at
some level you make everything

658
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,200
mean nothing.
And I'm exaggerate.

659
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,160
I don't really think that.
But it's like you really smooth

660
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,760
over a lot where it's like, I
guess we can't know a lot or you

661
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,080
know what I mean.
And that, that's the thing I

662
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,800
wrestle with.
Probably the will.

663
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,120
Our beards get better.
I I don't mind us.

664
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,320
If if we become omil.
Probably that's what's holding

665
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,280
me back.
It's so patchy, 'cause I'm off

666
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,440
mill.
Can you turn to Daniel chapter

667
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,720
12 while you're turning there?
We talked about Revelation 20

668
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,240
has a category.
It's explicit, the two

669
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,720
resurrections.
First Corinthians 15 has a

670
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,160
category, at least to work with,
where you can see two

671
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,240
resurrections happening.
I want to make the argument we

672
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:22,000
also see this in the book.
I know that's right you.

673
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:28,320
Wouldn't expect this.
Go go ahead, read chapter 12,

674
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,280
verse 2.
Verse 2.

675
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,920
Many of those who sleep in the
dust of the ground will awake

676
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,120
these to everlasting life, but
though the others to disgrace

677
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,280
and everlasting contempt.
So, so I don't you can tell me

678
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,320
if I'm reading into the text
here.

679
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,800
This comes from Fred Zaspel's
essay This word in verse 2.

680
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,400
Many of those who sleep in the
dust of the earth shall awake

681
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,400
would imply that not everyone
will be resurrection.

682
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,240
There's a subset of all.
If many are being resurrected,

683
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,520
the Day of Resurrection is a
partial one that's mentioned

684
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,040
there.
Yes, and so would he.

685
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,200
Is he just making the
distinction between the

686
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,640
resurrection of the living and
the resurrection of the dead?

687
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,360
Or is he even making a
distinction between early

688
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,760
resurrection of living and late?
Because I've often said I feel

689
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:19,120
like that is the weakest part in
It's not.

690
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,960
Explicit.
You because it's like what

691
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,880
happens to someone who gets
saved during the millennial?

692
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,080
Do they have to die and then
they immediately pop up?

693
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,440
That's that's a little weird.
That that is.

694
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,159
That is also we don't know how
that.

695
00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:30,199
Works.
I would say that's the weakest

696
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:31,159
part too.
It doesn't.

697
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,840
It's hard to conceptualize that
and just kind of think back to

698
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,679
perspective 15.
It's like progressive, but it

699
00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:38,199
is.
Weird.

700
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,159
Maybe there'll be someone who
says, I, I revealed to you a

701
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:43,920
mystery.
Behold, this wasn't known.

702
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,600
And now we do know how it's
going to work.

703
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:47,639
Yeah, maybe something like that.
Yeah, so you're right.

704
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:50,000
So I don't know if he's really
breaking up into all that.

705
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,080
He's just making the point.
Hey, there is there, there are

706
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,440
multiple places that talk about
multiple resurrections.

707
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,960
You can't just always flatten
everything out.

708
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,280
There at least are places where,
you know, what's, what's the

709
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,040
Angel talking about here?
I don't know exactly, you know.

710
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,960
Well, even if you you just take
Revelation 20 as a

711
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,880
recapitulation, it still says
there's a break between the

712
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,360
different resurrections.
No, that that that I think

713
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:11,400
you're right.
Probably the most clear.

714
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,800
And then the lastly, I'll talk
about Philippians 3 verse 11.

715
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:16,840
If we're familiar with
Philippians 3, Paul's talking

716
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:18,720
about all these earthly
credentials.

717
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:22,000
He's the best of the best, but
ultimately these count for

718
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:23,920
nothing.
And the end of this big long

719
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,560
paragraph verse 11's, Paul
writes that by any means

720
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,640
possible I may attain the
resurrection from the dead.

721
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,200
There were just one
resurrection.

722
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,560
Weird just to say resurrection
of the dead.

723
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,880
Like why not just say
resurrection more?

724
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,880
And if you look at the literal
Greek, I'm relying on Zaspol

725
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,720
again here, he says it almost
says the out resurrection out of

726
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:49,400
the dead, meaning that Paul
anticipates A selective

727
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,000
resurrection, what he'll be
taken out from again, which

728
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:53,880
resurrection you're talking
about.

729
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,200
It just gives a category of it's
not weird to think that there

730
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:03,480
will be multiple resurrections.
So anyway, that that is the most

731
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,360
of what I wanted to say.
Oh man, we still have more

732
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:07,480
Michael.
I'm trying to work a way like

733
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,400
fast through this.
So what let's do this.

734
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,800
Let's talk about this weak spot.
We'll Scroll down to death still

735
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,840
exists during the Millennium.
We talked about first

736
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,240
Corinthians 15.
So I'll keep scrolling and let's

737
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,880
let's.
Go to.

738
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,920
That's the.
Last, there's a progressive

739
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,240
until all the defendant enemies
are defeated.

740
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:32,920
So I think it can fit into there
also.

741
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,360
I I think what you have to do,
if we look at a passage like

742
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,400
Isaiah 11/6 through 9, the wolf
shall dwell with the lamb, but

743
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,120
the earth shall be full of the
knowledge of the Lord, We read

744
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,200
in Isaiah 65.
No more shall there be an infant

745
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,920
who lives but a few days, or an
old man who does not fill out

746
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,400
his days.
It's weird 'cause there is some

747
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,400
it it seems like not well.
Now someone who dies at a 100

748
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,320
will be considered like, you
know.

749
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,960
A young man or whatever, or yeah
or yeah.

750
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,120
It's weird because it doesn't
seem like here and now.

751
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,120
It doesn't seem like the eternal
state.

752
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,360
It does seem like some mix in
the middle.

753
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,240
I know it's prop.
You don't want to base

754
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:13,760
everything on Isaiah, but
there's a lot of Isaiah 53 says

755
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,640
a lot.
Or you know, like I I can feel

756
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,000
pretty confident about some
things in Isaiah.

757
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,080
Another passage is found in
Psalm 72.

758
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,840
Seven through 8 says in his
days, death is cut off.

759
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,840
We should let's let's turn,
let's turn to Psalm 72.

760
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:36,880
It kind of echoes some of this
stuff that we read in Isaiah

761
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,360
where it's like, it's a weird
category.

762
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:44,040
It's not like the here and now,
but it seems like it.

763
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,480
It shouldn't be the eternal stay
either.

764
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,800
I don't know if you want to scan
through here, Michael, and see

765
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,440
what I'm talking about.
Or maybe I'm going crazy and I

766
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,760
just wrote down this reference
out of nothing but it seems.

767
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,960
It says in his days may the
righteous flourish in the

768
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,200
abundance of peace till the moon
is no more.

769
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,960
May he also rule from sea to sea
and from the river to the ends

770
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,880
of the earth.
So you're talking about like

771
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,480
that, that those ideas of him
reigning a long, long time

772
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:21,000
because the moon till the moon.
Is no more let's see if I can

773
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,440
find what I'm looking at this.
Yeah yeah, exactly The mendency

774
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,160
to sea yeah, I I think you're
right.

775
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:29,600
Everyone fall down before him.
He deliver.

776
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,360
Yeah, he delivers.
The needy, the poor and him have

777
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,960
no helper.
Yeah, he's ruling and it.

778
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,880
And it seems like there are
there's still violence, there's

779
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,320
still oppression.
There's these things that seem

780
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,920
strange that maybe he's
eradicating, you know what I

781
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,520
mean?
That seem in the same vein of

782
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:48,440
Isaiah.
Right.

783
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,240
He will rescue their life from
oppression and violence, and

784
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:53,120
their blood will be precious in
his sight.

785
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,440
So it sounds like maybe there
are deaths, but then he

786
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:57,880
eventually.
Yeah, deaths.

787
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,000
Yeah, there it's like, again,
this weird in between to again,

788
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,120
it's a song.
You don't base your whole

789
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,040
theology on this one chapter,
but there's multiple places I

790
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:06,600
think.
It seems in concert with other

791
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,600
verses, yeah.
Wonderful.

792
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:13,280
That's exactly right.
And then the last piece I want

793
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,760
to hit on is let it's called
historical premill for a reason.

794
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,320
We got some historical
backgrounds of historic

795
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,200
premillennialism.
And I think this this isn't

796
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:23,120
everything.
You don't want to base

797
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,400
everything on church history,
but it ain't nothing.

798
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,040
Adjective historic.
Is it like a young Earth

799
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,600
creationist saying, well, I am a
biblical creationist?

800
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,280
Is that is it kind of the same
thing?

801
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, this is where they get it.

802
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,320
People where there's
documentation of of pre mill and

803
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,080
they would say their pre mill
there was, you know, they would

804
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,920
write of a literal millennial
Kingdom.

805
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,680
People like Polycarp, people
like Papias.

806
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,920
What's important about them is
that you know.

807
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,960
Pretty close to the.
The guy who wrote Revelation.

808
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:57,960
The.
Guy who wrote about Revelation

809
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:02,280
20 I mean so if if they were
parroting things hopefully that

810
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,160
that John would believe I mean
and.

811
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,640
Maybe they weren't no guys.
Y'all really misunderstood John,

812
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,320
he told me.
This is We're already in the

813
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,720
Kingdom right now, yeah.
It it it would it's kind of

814
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,920
interesting that their view was
a pre millennial view.

815
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,480
Papis has a quote that he's
carrying on the words of Andrew,

816
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,280
Phillip, Peter Thomas and other
disciples.

817
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,320
He's carrying on their cheating.
I mean their teaching.

818
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,680
Irenaeus origin, Tatulia and
Justin Martyr, all historic pre

819
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,480
mill.
Very interesting.

820
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,320
Not that that's a slam dunk
argument, but you're hard

821
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,320
pressed to find many before the
year 350 AD that believed

822
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,080
anything else besides a pre mill
view.

823
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,600
That's not everything, but it's
not nothing. 1st 300 years

824
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,320
nearly universal in the church.
The didoky assumes historic pre

825
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,880
mill and then a lot of these
early Christian writers.

826
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,920
The shift where everything
changes.

827
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,000
Augustine.
Man, that the guy who?

828
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,520
That that pesky Augustine.
Who got the grass named after

829
00:40:55,520 --> 00:41:00,080
him?
Exactly, he it originally was

830
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,320
historic pre mill and made this
move towards Ahmil.

831
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,760
He kind of considered pre mill
too materialistic Killianism

832
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,400
there there.
I think there were people in

833
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,160
that day that were very
hedonistic.

834
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,800
It's like all about the
prosperity and less about the

835
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,960
savior.
Like it kind of and I think some

836
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:17,760
of that shifted to the
spiritualizing.

837
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,680
It was a better way to go where
honestly pre mill was on the

838
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,200
decline.
He kind of set the tone, if you

839
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,560
can imagine.
So if we lived in 400 in the 4th

840
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,880
century, yeah, we could say
stuff like, you know, the

841
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:35,280
majority of the church, the
history of the church has held

842
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,480
this belief.
And now this is new.

843
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,000
It's brand new, it's
perspective.

844
00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:44,840
And we don't trust anything
that's new 'cause if it's, if

845
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:45,960
it's new, it's probably not.
It's.

846
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,760
Probably, yeah.
And and I, I, I think so at 431,

847
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,880
a little bit after this, there's
the Council of Ephesus.

848
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,200
You know, the emphasis I think
was on the on Christ, like many

849
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,800
of these early councils were.
And I think some of the pre

850
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,840
mills that had it'd been the
popular thought and there were

851
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,080
some pre mill that were de
emphasizing maybe the divinity

852
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:05,760
of Christ and focusing on his
human nature.

853
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:06,960
I think there was some of that
going on.

854
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,320
And so I think pre mill kind of
got caught in the crossfire

855
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,360
where I don't think it was
officially banned from the

856
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,040
research I've done, but it was
heavily discouraged.

857
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,120
I think it later was officially
banned by the Catholic Church,

858
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:20,520
which honestly, this is I'm
stealing this from Michael

859
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,280
Schultz.
The Catholics are saying no.

860
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,080
I'm saying as a reformer, I'm
saying this is I'm on the right

861
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,400
track.
You know what to what not to

862
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,160
believe by knowing what the
Catholics believe.

863
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:34,400
The Roman Catholics just just
the one of the 24.

864
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:35,920
Sorry.
And so all that to say, when

865
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,680
Council of Ephesus really
discouraged, it really fell out

866
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,640
of favor for for like 1000 years
where that just wasn't even an

867
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,280
option really.
And this is great.

868
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,000
This is great.
What Michael Schultz's

869
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,560
presentation he talks about
William Tris.

870
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,200
He was the president over the
construction of the Westminster

871
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,760
Confession pre millennial.
That's weird.

872
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,120
He's like you're welcome.
Presbyterians for the

873
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,480
Westminster confession 1689.
Largely based on the Westminster

874
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,760
confession of faith.
Francis Schaeffer historic pre

875
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,400
mill.
You're looking for AI always

876
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,360
mess up how to spell the
Scottish guy's name that has

877
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:11,640
like the Bible plan named after
him.

878
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,760
The Meshayan.
Do you know what I'm saying?

879
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,520
I, I, Yeah, I'm.
Not sure where you are.

880
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:17,480
Sorry, I'm just like Cotton
Mather.

881
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:19,560
Yeah.
What's the guy's name?

882
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,400
I don't know.
He has this, like, great Bible

883
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:24,520
plan where you read a ton of the
Bible.

884
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,280
I don't know.
Puritans.

885
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,960
John Bunyan, Cotton Mather,
Thomas Goodwin.

886
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:31,480
Anglicans.
JC Riley.

887
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,800
You've heard of this?
Good Anglican Baptist.

888
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,640
John Gill, Charles Spurgeon,
Benjamin Keach.

889
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,480
Keach's Catechism.
Both Wesley brothers.

890
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,120
Historic. 3 mill we're getting.
We're getting all the all the

891
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,200
angles here.
Contemporary.

892
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:44,480
We've probably talked about this
before.

893
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,080
John Piper, Wayne Grudem, DA
Carson, Al Mohler, you know,

894
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,480
it's not like, you know, I think
the trajectory now is like, oh,

895
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,160
awe, mill church history, these
kind of things.

896
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,440
But I think historic pre mill
does have a good foundation.

897
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,480
It doesn't prove it's correct by
any means, but I think it shows

898
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,080
that there are historical roots
to it before some of the more

899
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,920
theological systems develops.
George L Milat, I've mentioned

900
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,600
to him a lot.
He talks about this already.

901
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,320
Not yet paradigm.
So anyway that that's what I

902
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:20,240
wanted to cover so do.
You think, but you do you do.

903
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,640
So I guess I would I would agree
with with everything you said

904
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,640
here as a progressive dyspie.
Now maybe some some of your

905
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,320
hardline dyspies wouldn't.
And I would just add, Jesus is a

906
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:37,320
Jew and he's going to reign from
his Jewish land, the whole world

907
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:43,800
and the Jews and Israel's
ethnically one people underneath

908
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,880
him, right?
Paul would say there's no more,

909
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,520
you know, spiritual Israel
reigns with him.

910
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,400
Yeah, I'm, I'm a Jew.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got

911
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:54,920
ya.
OK, Alright.

912
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:56,920
I, I think, I think there is
more continuity than

913
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,520
discontinuity with all these
systems, honestly.

914
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:05,520
Like, you know, more so than
maybe there used to be some

915
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,280
weaknesses.
We talked about some of this I I

916
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:08,560
think a weakness of historic
premium.

917
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,560
I think it is less systematic.
It doesn't tie everything into a

918
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,960
nice tight system.
I do think it's more expository

919
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,360
than systematic, because what
you're.

920
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,240
Saying is it takes scripture
seriously.

921
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:22,280
It takes Scripture seriously.
Yeah, that's the nice way to

922
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:24,680
start saying it.
Timeline questions.

923
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,800
I think you know what happens
during the Millennium.

924
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:28,680
I can't answer those who is
there.

925
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,080
How does you know all these
things are are are tricky

926
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,320
anyway?
Why is there 1000 in your face

927
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,360
before the final state?
I just think it's there because

928
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,000
that's what the text says.
Like, you know, I don't have

929
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,320
like good reasoning for it.
That that's that's it.

930
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,120
There is something I'll talk
with you offline.

931
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,320
It's it's probably not worth
doing its own episode.

932
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,480
But I came across in researching
and listening that I don't know

933
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,960
if you've come across this.
It's called new creation

934
00:45:55,720 --> 00:45:59,360
Millennium millennialism.
It's like an offshoot of this.

935
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,520
It's kind of like what you were
talking about with like posts.

936
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,880
It's kind of like I'm going to
butcher because I haven't

937
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:07,280
studied enough.
But it's kind of like, you see,

938
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,840
like I think even John Gill or
some of these Baptists are

939
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,600
almost like there's a Millennium
that usher.

940
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,440
It's almost like you usher in
the new heavens and the new

941
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,960
earth, versus it's like it's
more of a bleeding together.

942
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:23,080
Yeah, I, I, I, I think I have
heard someone say something that

943
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,760
they did believe, like there's
going to be like a new creation

944
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,680
that he reigns from.
Yeah, it's.

945
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:30,840
It's different.
It's a little.

946
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:35,000
It's a little different poity
toity, but to try to distinguish

947
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,560
that because heaven is used so
many different ways in the

948
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,920
Bible.
I just mean when I say Escaton,

949
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,760
I just mean that final end
heaven state, you know the.

950
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:44,480
That's great.
Whatever the end is.

951
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,400
Doug Wilson, post millennialist,
has this great, you know, you

952
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,880
know that him, this world is not
my home, I'm just a passing

953
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:52,640
through.
He rewrote.

954
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,280
He's like, heaven's not my home,
I'm just a passing through.

955
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:56,600
That's great.
You know, You know, it's

956
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,280
provocative, gets you thinking
like, you know, 'cause that

957
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:00,760
wouldn't like rock people's
world, right?

958
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,040
You know what I mean?
Like heaven's not your home.

959
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:03,400
Yeah, just the intermediate
state.

960
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,920
You know, I'm trying to, I'm
moving on to different.

961
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,200
I would say this, the state that
my mom is in is intermediate,

962
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,880
right?
Yeah, exactly.

963
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:12,880
And that's what Paul would say.
That's what they're not all

964
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,560
going to sleep.
They're going to rise the

965
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,760
twinkling of an eye, and then
they will be forever changed.

966
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,120
If that's not Speaking of the
resurrection, what is?

967
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,080
Because my mom's without her
body right now.

968
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:24,040
That's right.
That's right.

969
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,800
It's not, not the state.
Yeah, exactly.

970
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,040
Yeah, exactly right.
Well, good.

971
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,000
We can you want to transition to
the final take?

972
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,680
Have we took enough airtime?
I think so.

973
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,120
I mean we this will be I'm
sorry.

974
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,160
You give me a hard time about
how long my episodes are and the

975
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,320
apologetic stuff off camera.
He was like my computer just

976
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:43,960
don't want to listen to that
stuff for that long.

977
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:51,160
But so how many more?
So, sake sake soccer coach

978
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:53,760
Shortenaire?
How many more games do that?

979
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,280
How many more games?
Two more games, we got Porter

980
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,400
Gout on Thursday and then Camden
Military.

981
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,280
You ever play Camden Military?
No, yeah, that's good.

982
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,800
Yeah, yeah.
We all have a crazy to me, like

983
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,560
in football, American football.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

984
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:17,360
The public schools seem to be
generally better than us.

985
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,280
I guess they have more hopes to
draw from.

986
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,400
But my experience with both
volleyball and association

987
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:29,000
football, AKA soccer, that we're
we have been better than the

988
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,160
public schools.
I don't know.

989
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,920
So you may have a Do y'all know
how good they are?

990
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,680
Or no, I, I don't know.
And JV it's so you can't tell if

991
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:38,520
people get pulled up to varsity
'cause there's injury.

992
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,960
It's like it's wildly different.
From what you know if is it

993
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,040
gonna be like a middle school
game or is it gonna be.

994
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:44,360
AI hope it's a middle school
game.

995
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,000
That would be great.
I think to your point, I think

996
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,320
unfortunately soccer in the
United States for the most part

997
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,440
is pay to play or if you have
money, you'll play club and

998
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,960
therefore be good versus
basketball or football.

999
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:57,480
I think there's a lot more
avenues where you're trying to

1000
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,200
pick talent or everyone can
play.

1001
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,680
And so I think soccer is not
quite there where it's a bunch

1002
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:07,200
of maybe not necessarily your
most athletic kids getting

1003
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,240
opportunities, but the people
who can play Four Seasons a year

1004
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:11,680
and pay 3000 bucks a year for
club.

1005
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:12,840
And it's like he's doing this
you.

1006
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,880
Know I saw a real recently that
said something like just to hit

1007
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:20,360
you with reality, soccer
parents, recruiters are not

1008
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,760
looking at high school games.
They're going to club games.

1009
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,360
I'm like, well.
Yeah, it's so interesting.

1010
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,040
It's it's so we have there's a
similar problem.

1011
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:28,440
I think there's more access in
basketball.

1012
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,360
Not that we need to get on this
rabbit trail, but man, AAU

1013
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,080
compared to school, it's like it
has totally like messed

1014
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,360
everything up and everything is
so like about getting you

1015
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,880
recruited and stuff.
You just jump from team to team.

1016
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:42,440
It's harder to do that school to
school.

1017
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:45,440
It is like not a good system.
It's like the and the clubs,

1018
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,080
they make money for me paying a
ton of money to them.

1019
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,880
So it's like they're gonna, you
know, try to make you look good

1020
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,000
if you're paying.
It's it's where a school might

1021
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,200
be more like we're playing a
team sport, playing the right

1022
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,040
way.
And it's like, but that's not

1023
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,160
gonna get you the highlights and
that kind of thing.

1024
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,640
But anyway, two more games.
Yeah, yeah.

1025
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,000
Had the girls varsity had a
disappointing loss last night to

1026
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,360
Pinewood man to all of our
Pinewood listeners.

1027
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,280
Yeah, we probably have a lot.
I've got a couple of patients.

1028
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,080
Their grandkids go to Pinewood,
so I'm sure they're.

1029
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:12,760
Yeah.
There you go.

1030
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,560
But you know, they're rival.
I just like I, I, it's like one

1031
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:18,120
of those people you love to
hate.

1032
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,040
You want to beat them like.
On the other side of Somerville,

1033
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,280
it's like, it's like the perfect
rivalry.

1034
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,360
It's like the other side of
their tracks type of thing, but

1035
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:28,640
the other side of Somerville.
Yeah, they may actually be on

1036
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,600
another side of the tracks, but
anyway, literally.

1037
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:36,880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, but yeah, was talking to

1038
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,720
Karis afterwards and she made
the statement, you know, not

1039
00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:44,600
that this is our first loss and
and I think I told you, she's

1040
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,920
averaging 23 saves a game.
Man, that's insane.

1041
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,480
That's.
A lot of action, but last night

1042
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,480
she's like, this is the first
game where like even though

1043
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,720
we've she was, she said previous
games, even though we've lost, I

1044
00:50:55,720 --> 00:50:58,880
can always say I felt like I had
a good game and she didn't feel

1045
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,480
like that.
And that's tough 'cause when

1046
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,960
you're the goalie, a mistake
literally means a point on the

1047
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:09,040
board where and any almost any
other position you can make

1048
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:10,960
mistakes all night.
It's so true.

1049
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,440
And like at goalie, if you were
like, there is a, there's a big

1050
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,600
difference like you should make
routine saves.

1051
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:22,840
Or it's like if you're in
midfield, you might make like

1052
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,720
when I'm playing and I'm locked
in, I'm making passes, I might

1053
00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:27,600
hit like 80% of my passes,
right?

1054
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:29,920
But you it's like routine.
Different.

1055
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,800
Yeah, it's exactly on the.
Especially on those ones I kind

1056
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,600
of get to, not really.
Now, some of these are

1057
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,160
impossible, but it's like, even
if you just like you should have

1058
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,640
got to it, it's just like it
looks bad even though no one's

1059
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,600
going to be 100%, you know?
Right.

1060
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,720
Yeah, it's tough.
It's a tough, tough place to

1061
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:49,920
play.
So yeah. 23 saves a game.

1062
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,160
Yeah, that's that's all it says.
How did how did playoffs and

1063
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:57,280
stuff work for?
Well, you know the this is the

1064
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:02,680
first year maybe ever that the
girls are going to make

1065
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:04,520
playoffs.
I'm really excited one other

1066
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,880
time before, but it's been
weird.

1067
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,480
Like we've been in the situation
where like they're seven teams

1068
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:14,000
in our and you just have to be
not the last team in order to

1069
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,640
make playoffs.
So I think maybe there was one

1070
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:21,760
year when maybe when Chloe was a
junior or sophomore, they made

1071
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:23,240
playoffs.
Like they went to one game and

1072
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:25,400
lost.
But I I don't know.

1073
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:26,400
We haven't done it.
We haven't.

1074
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:28,440
Done a lot.
I was talking to Paul today and

1075
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,480
Paul was like, they're not going
to go to playoffs.

1076
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:36,400
But I think like varsity guys
might have made playoffs because

1077
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,920
of the because of what you're
saying, the numbers Like I think

1078
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,840
in our region or our area,
whatever the terminology is,

1079
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,680
like everyone goes to playoffs
for the guys athletes maybe.

1080
00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:47,080
I don't know, right?
So he's saying we by the

1081
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:48,280
numbers, we made it, but we're
not going.

1082
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,320
To go, but we're not going to
travel 2 hours to.

1083
00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:52,280
Just go lose.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1084
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,040
In a, In a like against the
number one seed or something,

1085
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:56,560
you know what I mean?
Because they would be on the

1086
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,160
lower end, but it's like
interesting.

1087
00:52:58,160 --> 00:52:59,360
It's like, oh, that that is.
Interesting.

1088
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:04,480
I think we're like, I think
it's, I had to look, but like

1089
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:09,960
Porter Pinewood and probably
Ashley Hall are the top.

1090
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,040
So we're probably around 5th.
Right next.

1091
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 4th or 5th in
the region, Maybe 6th somewhere

1092
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:21,760
around there where we beat PCA
and First Baptist, both of them

1093
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,080
on both.
Are home and away.

1094
00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:27,840
So that is, yeah, that's good.
So we're at least, you know, not

1095
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,480
the bottom, which is nice.
Yeah, that's, that's very

1096
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:31,960
exciting.
It's cool.

1097
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,440
I've caught a couple, I've
caught a lot of PK games between

1098
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:36,120
JV and Marsh.
They like either coming out of

1099
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,640
practice or we're playing next
or they, you know, whatever.

1100
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,120
So that's been and I think
they've all gone positive that

1101
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:42,360
I've seen on all of them.
It's pretty cool.

1102
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,640
Yeah, I think the trajectory is
really good for.

1103
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,600
And.
And they got this new announcer

1104
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:47,880
and it's just.
Like.

1105
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:51,760
Crushing it.
Crushing it I well, both my

1106
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,480
daughters, they, I don't know if
it's because I'm, it's just the

1107
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,240
ick factor, because I'm their
father.

1108
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:58,760
And if it was like some other
father, they wouldn't really

1109
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:00,560
care 'cause they could just
write it off.

1110
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,640
But Julie came to me and she's
like, yeah, some of the girls

1111
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:05,920
don't like the songs you play.
And I'm like, I'm not playing

1112
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,080
them, especially maybe in warm
ups.

1113
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,360
I'm playing them for the ladies.
And I try to find something.

1114
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,120
They want warm ups when the fans
aren't there.

1115
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,440
But when it's like halftime or
something, I'm not.

1116
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:16,840
I'm playing for the people in
the stands.

1117
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,560
That's right.
And then we were, yeah, I was

1118
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,160
playing Sweet Caroline.
I I heard it.

1119
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:22,480
We were practicing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1120
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:23,760
And I had them sing along with
it.

1121
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:25,840
That's great.
And that's so funny.

1122
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,240
Another coach caught Karis's
face when I said, all right,

1123
00:54:29,240 --> 00:54:31,000
let's, let's hear you sing
along.

1124
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,880
She was like, she just kind of
wilted.

1125
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,880
But the ref during the halftime
was like getting into it, like

1126
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,640
he was recording us singing.
And he really.

1127
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:43,240
Actually, we saw the ref like we
were practicing, like the ref is

1128
00:54:43,240 --> 00:54:46,120
going crazy, like I missed it,
but I bet that's what they were.

1129
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:50,000
Talking about yeah, yeah.
He was like, you know, so the

1130
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,240
adults and the ref, we were
enjoying it.

1131
00:54:52,240 --> 00:54:55,560
Sorry.
You're bored on a Thursday night

1132
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,880
coming over to the Northwood for
the halftime show, you know.

1133
00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:00,640
We were we were having a good
time.

1134
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:02,040
So I love it.
Oh, that's I.

1135
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:03,520
Ended with Dusty Sleigh's
phrase.

1136
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,680
We're having a good time.
It's just naturally coming out.

1137
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,640
It's a good place to wrap it up.
Historic pre mill.

1138
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,160
That's a wrap.
That's our take.

1139
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:15,400
Thanks for listening to Take
two.

1140
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,040
Find us wherever you find
podcast and on YouTube for those

1141
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:20,440
who want to watch our video
cast.