I Think, Therefore I Am | Part 1

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All right, Zach, you know, we,
we see a lot of each other every

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now and then.
Never, you know, had a sleepover

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or anything.
Basically did almost the only

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thing that would have topped it
would have been bunk beds.

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Yeah, well, yeah, I wasn't AI
think.

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Were those originally bunk beds
that were just split apart?

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Maybe, Yeah, maybe could have
been, yeah.

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Maybe just twin beds.
Yeah.

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So recently Zach and I and the
other elders and wives, although

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my wife was in Arkansas at a
close friends funeral at a

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retreat for for the elders.
It's a good time.

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The younger elders and Jill was
like, well, Aaron's our age.

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I was like, yeah, but Tim, it's
not.

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The younger elders were.
Banished.

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Banished to.
To the out the.

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Yeah, I.
Don't know what, what you would

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call it, but we were on a, you
know, by ourselves in the, you

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know, close quarters.
Yeah, yeah, we had one bathroom,

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but between between us.
So I, you know, I took one for

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the team.
I would just sleep in late and

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let everyone get their showers
and stuff in and then.

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It's great.
Pastor Joe was always very

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worried about are you going to
make it to the first session?

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It's great.
He wasn't really worried, but

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it's great, you know, he.
Would show up maybe like 15

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minutes early and he'd be like,
you know, OK, I can go on.

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I'm like, yeah, I'm, I'm here.
It's great.

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Love it.
Yeah.

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The bathroom to bedroom ratio,
that's always, that's always a

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tough thing when you're like on
a, you know, Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There was a big pond out and

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back.
Worse came to worse you.

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Know that was good.
We ate at that place.

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I was not impressed that place.
Were you impressed?

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Yeah, I I've only, I've been to
Tupelo Honey before.

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Not that one, a different one.
It was really good.

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That one was, it was
overwhelming.

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Second experience, you know.
Yeah, I and then.

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I realized how breakfast heavy
it was.

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Well, and I I I tried to get
steak and eggs as I think Danny

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did too.
This was the best.

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And and then Sarah ordered some
type of flank steak.

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So they only had one type of
steak on the menu, flank steak,

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but it showed up in like a
couple, two or three of their

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different dishes.
She comes back 5-6 minutes after

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we ordered, 7 minutes have
ordered.

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We are out of flank steak.
I'm like, how can you be out?

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Like we just ran out of steak 10
minutes ago.

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That was great.
So then I ordered what you had,

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which was the black and mahi,
and it was it was the, you know,

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mahi is known for like just a
very light, no fishy taste to

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it, just as flaky and it wasn't.
And Michael actually sent it

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back.
He caused this scene.

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I.
Just I should have not eaten it.

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I was like, I'm just going to
power through this 'cause I

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don't want to eat it, but I have
this like clean my plate

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mentality, which I should get
rid of.

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So I was like, I powered through
it and then I enjoyed my sides

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that night.
I was like, I should not have,

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like I was.
My stomach was a little bit

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upset from string that fish, but
yeah.

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Man nap out of out of stake is
is great, is like oh man.

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And then people are scrambling
to order.

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It's it's a thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It's good.
Saw some Christmas lights.

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Yeah, from, from outside the
fence, yeah.

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So for those who are local to
Charleston, yeah, imagine all of

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the James County, James Island
County park lights in one big

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arena so you can just walk
around.

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That's basically what this was.
Other places do this too.

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I didn't, I did not know this,
but my brother, he lives in

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Charlotte.
He was going like 20 minutes

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north of Charlotte to like their
like Motor Speedway where they

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do like NASCAR and stuff and
they did the same thing.

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They like put it there.
It's like that's a good idea.

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Just got a big open.
You know, it's, it's kind of.

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Contains you can ticket.
It.

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Yeah, yeah.
And it seemed like they did have

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like a little train going around
a track or something too.

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So yeah, yeah, not as good as
going through the woods and

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almost hitting people.
We did the Festival of Light and

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it is different with it's like
that.

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They keep separation of church
and state.

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Just keep keep the train 'cause
I always felt like there's

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always.
I'm surprised there wasn't more

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injuries.
With the training, that was my

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favorite thing to walk was the
the path that's now cordoned off

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'cause it had like the little
Angel light that would come out

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and it had like a snake, It had
a rabbit that was jumping around

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back and forth, you know, and
it's like you're only going to

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see this very fast on a train
'cause you're not going to get a

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little.
The train is go goes by too fast

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for you enjoy it and you can't
walk there now so.

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You went before Thanksgiving?
Yeah.

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Would you recommend this?
Was that the move like as far as

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crowds and.
Stuff it's hard to know what

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your crowd was, but ours was was
still crowded, maybe less

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crowded than yours.
And so maybe that's still the

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move, but it, it's still, it's
like these people keep moving

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here from like Memphis and Maine
and stuff.

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And it's like, Oh my goodness.
Dude, it's like we went.

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It's probably about, I don't
know, we went the Friday after

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Thanksgiving.
In my mind that would be a busy

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time on their little calendar.
It was like a yellow like AI

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don't know if you did you look
at the calendar.

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So they they pre select days
based on history as yellow,

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green, red.
If you go on a red day, which is

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basically every weekend after.
Not the Friday for Thanksgiving,

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but the week after weekend.
We're going to be busy.

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Too busy and tickets are like
more expensive on the red.

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Days we have a, we have a annual
pass, so we just get scanned and

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so.
The elites, they don't know how.

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The peasants and then the yellow
or moderate, it's like a mid

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price, which is basically, I
don't know, like there's certain

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days and then the green is you
like weekdays, especially early

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in December and it's like $10
cheap.

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It's like it's a good way to do
it.

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And so it was a yellow day.
So it's like if this is a yellow

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day, I don't want to see what a
red day is.

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And like we got there like right
when the park open.

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It was like as good as you could
time it, but man, it's like

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crowded.
You're waiting forever to get on

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the train.
It's just like, it's not, I've

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only lived here for like 13
years or something, but it 10

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years ago, man, not like this at
all.

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Even when it was like busy.
It's crazy, man.

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Not like it used to be, you
know?

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You're thinking about it.
Therefore I am, I think.

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Oh man, yeah.
Good.

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You're always good at the
Segways Connect connecting

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every.
Time you say a Segway.

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I always think of that song.
Chimpanzee ride on the Segway.

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You know the song.
I don't know the song.

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I want another song.
Yeah.

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You should look it up and listen
to it man.

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Yeah.
I don't think I've ever have

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you.
I've never been on a Segway.

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I don't think I've.
Not been on a Segway either.

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I.
Wonder how hard it is to?

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If you're at a golf course near
a Cliff, I hear it can be pretty

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dangerous, yeah.
Yeah, be careful.

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Be careful out there.
PSA Well hope you're excited for

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some philosophy.
I am.

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'Cause we're gonna tackle it
hard.

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This will be good.
I'm sure I'll learn a lot as

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well.
It's like we're talking a little

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bit about Descartes.
Like everyone knows Descartes,

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but I but I could probably
exhaust what I know about him in

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like a 2 minute span.
You know what I mean?

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You don't.
Ever want him standing in front

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of a beast of burden 'cause you
don't want Descartes before the

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horse?
See, this is This is why you

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come to this podcast for puns
like that.

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Don't say we never did nothing
for you.

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Let's go ahead and take it to
the next level.

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Let's fire up that twanga music.
From the hearts of the Low

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Country in South Carolina.
It's the Take Two podcast where

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we take theology to the next
level.

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Well, Michael, we should
probably just start right with

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Descartes.
Let's get into it right?

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But.
Well, so I was thinking about

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this, 'cause we were talking
about other arguments for the

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existence of God, and I was
thinking about this argument

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that Descartes puts for Rene
Descartes.

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You might know him from math,
the Cartesian plane when you did

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XY.
Yeah, yeah, he's that.

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He's that guy.
Yeah, he's mathematician,

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philosopher and he see this will
be good.

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Maybe we can get into it later
because I, I think a lot of

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times he's, at least from my
perspective, not knowing a lot

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about philosophy, he's always
cast as like not an enemy of

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Christianity.
Like I think he's a Christian.

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But it's like to me, I think
some people maybe circles I run

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in sometimes it like sets the
stage for this basis that May is

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not you know, I don't know.
I can see you're.

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You're not.
I'm interested 'cause I haven't

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heard this.
Yeah, I'm interested in hearing.

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Where I feel like it's like
almost divorcing theology.

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It's like you're, I don't know
you're not you're, you're not

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using theology to inform 'cause
you can doubt all the I don't

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know.
Anyway, good things to talk

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about.
I don't know, you know, is

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everything a deception or I
don't?

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These are things.
You hear?

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But that's good that that is
good to raise those questions

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and we'll address those second
episode.

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So.
Yeah, so there's so much here

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and maybe this will be 3 short
episodes, which is probably

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better than one super long
episode.

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But I thought, you know, before
the carts could even make sense

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'cause I could just we could
just launch right into it.

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I think it the background of how
we get to Descartes and what

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he's saying would be good.
So if you've ever taken a

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philosophy class, maybe you took
philosophy 101 or something.

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If you've ever studied it, you
probably talked about dailies of

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Miletus, the very first kind of
recognized philosopher.

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These are the so-called pre.
He's one of the so-called pre

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Socratic philosophers.
So you have these, you know,

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this starting of philosophy in
the Greek city states, maybe

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some that are over like in
present day Turkey.

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That's one of our favorite
phrases.

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And then kind of the the big
turning point is Socrates, his

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student was Plato.
Socrates didn't write anything

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down.
So everything we know about

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Socrates, we know because Plato
wrote it down.

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So we learned about Socrates
through Plato.

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So you kind of have to emits,
you know, kind of think through,

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is this Plato's talking here
through what he's writing?

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Is a Socrates talking to what
he's writing here and then

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'cause.
Plato's probably.

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I haven't read Plato's Socrates
really that much.

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Plato's probably not saying
everything Socrates says is the

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best.
No, no.

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'Cause he's like, you know,
refining and taking different.

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Yeah, the Socrates, Plato and
Aristotle are all different, but

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there's a, the sorry, there's a
chain there shows Socrates.

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His student was Plato, his
student was Aristotle, and then

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his student was Alexander the
Great.

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So.
Yeah, that's true.

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I always forget this.
Yeah, that's right.

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That's the time period.
That's good.

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Yeah.
Sorry, I'll get my throat clear

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in just a second.
Can we clear the throat into the

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mic a little bit more?
So Aristotle, huge impact on

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philosophy.
Some people would say Plato's

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impact was bigger.
So, you know, one person

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00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,240
famously said that all
philosophy is a footnote to

228
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,240
Plato, cause Plato did help
establish these kind of these

229
00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,960
categories of philosophy, but he
kind of thought about things

230
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,840
different than Aristotle.
If you've ever looked at the

231
00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:10,080
painting, it's called Oh, the
School of Athens.

232
00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,920
And it's, and it's famously,
it's got all these different

233
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:17,600
philosophers there and in the
center is Plato and Aristotle.

234
00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,280
And Plato is pointing up with
his hand and Aristotle's

235
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,440
pointing down.
And if you know anything about

236
00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:28,200
Platonic ideals, Platonic
figures, I'm probably losing

237
00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:29,560
Platonic forms.
There we go.

238
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,520
It's this idea that, you know,
we have a physical microphone

239
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,320
here, but there's a form of a
microphone that exists

240
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,000
abstractly and it's the perfect
of microphone.

241
00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,920
And there's a this microphone
instantiates the universal of

242
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,600
microphone and this chair
instantiates the universalness

243
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,720
of chair.
And Airsoft said that's crazy.

244
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,600
We don't know.
We learn instead of the forms

245
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,040
being defined from above,
they're defined from the

246
00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,920
particulars.
So we interact with a lot of

247
00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:01,720
chairs.
We learn what it means to be a

248
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,680
chair and then we we know what
we mean to say chair, even

249
00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:07,000
though not all chairs are the
same, even these two chairs that

250
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,360
are kind of sold in a set should
be, they're different.

251
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,440
They're differences between
these, but they still

252
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:19,880
instantiate cheeriness.
So Aristotle would be called an

253
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:24,440
empiricist because he would say
you have to learn from below to

254
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,600
kind of get these ideas of these
ideals.

255
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,320
So the universals are abstracted
from particular things.

256
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,840
Aristotle today would be known
as both the scientists and a

257
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,480
philosopher 'cause he talked
about physics and metaphysics.

258
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,760
So he has a book called Physics.
He has a book called

259
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,520
Metaphysics.
Not creative with his names, but

260
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:45,760
yeah, no, I'm just kidding.
Yeah, that's good.

261
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,680
And he made some biological
observations.

262
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,920
He kind of starts this idea of
taxonomies, which we don't keep

263
00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,720
his taxonomies, but you know,
this idea of, you know, Kingdom,

264
00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,760
phylum, class or family, genus,
species, that type of thing.

265
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,200
That way of thinking about it
could just kind of started with

266
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:14,800
Aristotle, and he also had some
physics there, so a quote about

267
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,160
him.
Russell was critical of some

268
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,400
Aristilians categories, yet he
still admitted Aristotle's

269
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,160
influence is so vast that it
would be difficult to exaggerate

270
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,360
it.
You could try to exaggerate how

271
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,440
big his influence was.
All right, so why are we talking

272
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,760
about Aristotle so much?
So Aristotle defined all these

273
00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,320
different categories, helped
redefine them from what Plato

274
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,200
started.
Epistemology, how we know what

275
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,320
we know, metaphysics, what is
really real.

276
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,240
And I'm skipping over some of
these subcategories.

277
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,240
Logic.
So he invented formal logic as a

278
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,480
discipline, you know, the
syllogism, you know, he helped

279
00:13:55,480 --> 00:14:01,280
build that ethics.
Udai Udai mania was one of those

280
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,640
virtue ethics, politics,
although Socrates definitely,

281
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,040
you know, talked about politics,
Aristotle did as well.

282
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,760
And then also natural
philosophy, like classification,

283
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,440
animals, observation of biology,
early theories of motion,

284
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,000
causation and cosmology.
So I've been talking a lot so

285
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:20,480
keeping track of everything so
far.

286
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,160
Nailing it.
My take away.

287
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:24,960
Aristotle.
Big Deal did a lot of things.

288
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,240
He's important, foundational.
Yes, yes.

289
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,920
And really, you could say that
about Socrates, Plato and

290
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:31,400
Aristotle.
But here's your favorite.

291
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,000
You got a fave.
Aristotle.

292
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,160
Clearly you're not like bring
let's bring back.

293
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,880
Plato had everything right.
Yeah, well, Socrates thought,

294
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,320
I'm not going to write anything
down because you won't

295
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,720
understand.
Like I will say a you will get a

296
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,600
prime and something will be
lost.

297
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,160
So I won't write anything down,
Socrates thought.

298
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,000
I can really only you you'd
understand what I'm thinking by

299
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,640
asking you a whole bunch of
questions.

300
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:53,840
Socratic method.
Yeah, yeah.

301
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,240
So the Socratic method was
there.

302
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,920
Plato was really famous for
these Platonic forms.

303
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,560
And, you know, he talked about,
you know, he's also famous for

304
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,120
this cave analogy where.
Yeah.

305
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,400
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

306
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,320
And so Aristotle, I think,
really starts to give us

307
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,400
practical philosophy that we can
use and.

308
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,000
And that makes sense.
So Aristotle dies.

309
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:16,840
You probably knew that.
Yeah.

310
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:21,160
Yeah, he did die.
And eventually, as you know,

311
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,400
classical Greece, you know,
Alexander the Great, the four

312
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,360
kingdoms are separated.
You know, the Kingdom is

313
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,920
separated for Rome's takes over.
His writings are kind of lost.

314
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,000
They are rediscovered.
Well, they're kind of preserved

315
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,280
through Byzantium and they're,
it goes down to some of the

316
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,240
Arabic areas.
And so we hit some translators,

317
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:47,040
Avencia and Avaros are there.
And so there's this kind of

318
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:54,760
resurgence of of Aristotelian
philosophy and you know, you're

319
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:59,160
Muslim countries at that time.
But he gets rediscovered in the

320
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,040
West, in Europe, around 11
hundreds.

321
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,520
And so there's these major
translations of his works into

322
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:13,400
Spanish, into Latin.
And so those translations spread

323
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,440
rapidly through Europe's
universities, Paris, Oxford,

324
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,440
Cologne, Bologna.
And so I'm assuming that's how

325
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,440
you pronounce it.
It looks like baloney, maybe

326
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,360
like the meat, but so sorry if
I'm mispronouncing that that.

327
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,360
Italy is so mad.
Yeah, yeah.

328
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:37,240
So there's this huge, huge
adoption of Aristotle, so much

329
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,160
so that you could write and you
would just say the philosopher.

330
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,800
And you know.
You know that like, you can pick

331
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:52,000
up Saint Thomas Aquinas's Summa
or his De Mallo on evil, and he

332
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,120
would just say the philosopher
says this, the philosophy says

333
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:55,760
this.
There's other books that I read

334
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,360
when I took medieval philosophy
where they just call him the

335
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,080
philosopher.
Like that is his status.

336
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,480
And he really forms a backbone
of scholasticism and shapes

337
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,319
basically all of our Western
intellectual life.

338
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,040
And so we could agree with
Bertrand Russell, you it's hard

339
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:18,920
to overstate his influence on
what we have today in every area

340
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,160
of thought, metaphysics, ethics,
logic, theology.

341
00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:25,520
All right, So that's a lot of
history because we're leading up

342
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,640
to a crisis, because what
happened?

343
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,080
Well, we're going to get to a
point where we discover

344
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,320
Aristotle's not right on the
physics.

345
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:36,560
Oh yeah.
That's a big deal 'cause physics

346
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:41,480
is not right.
And so I just got going through

347
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,560
some of this.
That's repeated.

348
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,280
We'll get to down to internal
strain, signs of trouble for the

349
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,240
collapse.
So around the 1300s, we get

350
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,400
this.
William of Occam may have heard

351
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,080
of Occam's razor before.
He's the guy that came up with

352
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,200
it.
But he starts to, you know,

353
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,720
think critically about what
Aristotle has to say.

354
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:04,440
He rejects Aristotle's way of
dealing with real universals.

355
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,280
We don't have to get into all
this, but he denies Aristotle's

356
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,000
ideas of causation.
He emphasizes God's absolute

357
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,320
freedom where resilian logic
would say there's some

358
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,400
cosmological necessity.
So all I'm saying is there's you

359
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,640
get start to see some cracks
here in the scholastic mindset.

360
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,960
And this is before, like,
everything got upended, like,

361
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:30,880
you know, take AI think of like
the Enlightenment and

362
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,800
everything's changing, but it's
happened well before.

363
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,200
This, this is like around 200
years before that.

364
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,400
And so 1300 to 1500 you, you
know, there was this in the

365
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,520
first hundred 150 years, this
full on adoption of Aristotle as

366
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,440
he began to spread and then
people start to go, oh, well,

367
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,160
does that really make sense?
Well, this is what he said, but

368
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,440
what about this?
So you can see how that might

369
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,440
happen.
The real big thing happens 1500

370
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:59,120
to 1650.
Copernicus in 1543 proposes

371
00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:00,800
heliocentricism.
The nerve.

372
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,200
The what I mean, come on, if you
don't, that just breaks down

373
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,440
into sun centered.
So he had the nerve, like you

374
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,800
said, to say that the sun is at
the center of our solar system

375
00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:15,760
and the US and all the other
planets revolve around the sun.

376
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,240
You know, received a lot of heat
for this, but it became kind of

377
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,600
the basis for scientific
revolution.

378
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,320
And we saw, we see that this is
probably the biggest scientific

379
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,720
revolution we've had in that we
that's ever been documented, the

380
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,680
Einsteinian revolution from
Newtonian physics, probably the

381
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:40,080
second Kepler.
So when he does this and people

382
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,200
adopt it, Aristotle's geocentric
cosmos collapses.

383
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:50,080
That's a pretty big paradigm.
Kepler comes along, he takes a

384
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:56,920
lot of these observations, maps
and realizes that the planets

385
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:58,720
are not traveling in perfect
circles.

386
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,520
It's actually ellipses close to
perfect circles.

387
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,440
But but now Aristotle's perfect
circles are gone.

388
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,360
Man, Galileo does experiments on
motion.

389
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:14,320
You know, you might think a
heavier body falls faster to the

390
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,160
Earth.
It's kind of intuitive.

391
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,560
But it's not true.
As long as there's no

392
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,040
appreciable difference in air
resistance, a heavy body and a

393
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,280
light body, they fall together.
Galileo does experiments showing

394
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,200
that, showing differences in
inertia.

395
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,200
Mathematics replaces qualitative
nature.

396
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,200
So this idea of like a rock
falls because it wants to be,

397
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,600
that its nature is to be towards
the center.

398
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:43,640
And that's what So all of these
things happen and people begin

399
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,920
to go this Aristotle didn't know
what he's talking.

400
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,000
About Yeah, seriously, what's
going on?

401
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,000
And so his physics gets rejected
and the baby goes out with the

402
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,320
bathwater.
His metaphysics gets rejected.

403
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,400
Yeah, it's like we're starting
all over like this was our guy,

404
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,400
this was our rock, and he
doesn't know anything about

405
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,800
physics.
Like, can we even like it makes

406
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,760
sense when you think about the
cart, no one knows if you know

407
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,080
anything about the cart.
I think they're, you know, it

408
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,800
kind of that's like, why do we
have to, you know, what's

409
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,680
getting at the basics or
whatever?

410
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,120
So there's like this crisis of
how do we know?

411
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,920
What do we know?
Do we just accept that on

412
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:24,640
authority?
Because that's what we were

413
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,520
doing.
We read this guy who spoke

414
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,720
authoritatively named Aristotle.
We called him the philosopher.

415
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,120
We trusted him, and we found out
that he was false, at least in

416
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:35,480
his physics.
So how do we know what we know?

417
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:42,800
And so we really get this panic
from like 1600 to 1650, and the

418
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:49,320
schism starts to form in the
universities about how we know

419
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,320
what we know.
So the empiricist response is

420
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,240
we're going to start over with
our senses.

421
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,000
Seems like a good place to start
if you can experience it's got

422
00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,840
to be true.
You can taste, feel, smell or

423
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:00,920
touch it.
What could go wrong?

424
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,480
So you know, they're, they're
rejecting scholasticism.

425
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,960
Nature must be interrogated
through experiments, not

426
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:14,000
syllogisms, Advocates, inductive
reasoning, systematic

427
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,680
observation.
Oddly enough, these are the same

428
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,680
things Aristotle said.
Aristotle is a form of

429
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,400
empiricist.
He's the one who said this is

430
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,160
how many teeth a human has and
never has time to count them.

431
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,040
Like, why would you go?
He would say things, but then

432
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:28,920
not follow his own.
His own.

433
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So.

434
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,840
So the underlying claim of the
empiricist is that knowledge

435
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,160
begins with experience, so we're
going to trust our observations.

436
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,080
Not dusty books.
Not.

437
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,720
Honestly sounds a lot like 2025.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we

438
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,600
probably.
Anti authority, my experience

439
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,000
rules, but yeah anyway, might be
for the most part, you know.

440
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:57,680
They tend to win the day.
So another group are the

441
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,280
idealists, and they say we start
over with reason.

442
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:05,240
OK, so empiricism.
They're worried about empiricism

443
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,360
because the senses are
unreliable.

444
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,240
And so there were a lot of these
experiments They showed where

445
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:16,280
you could put one hand in a a
bucket of relatively cold water,

446
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,720
one hand in a bucket of
relatively warm water, let them

447
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,480
sit there and kind of acclimate.
Then you could put them both

448
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,280
into the same bucket, same water
so you knew at the same

449
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,320
temperature and it felt like
those two different.

450
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,320
Temperatures totally.
You know, or, you know, like you

451
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,960
put a fish and pole through or
pole through the water and it

452
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,920
looks like it's, you know,
split.

453
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,120
So all of these optical
illusions, they're like you

454
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:41,240
can't trust your senses.
Galileo just proved that you

455
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:46,240
can't just trust your senses.
So, you know, we the what we

456
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,400
see, we can't really get to what
we see.

457
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,000
So we need to start with certain
truths.

458
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,840
So if you did you take geometry
in school?

459
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,240
I did, did not like it.
You didn't like it?

460
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:57,960
The proofs.
Wait, just draw a square.

461
00:23:58,280 --> 00:23:59,440
Fine, you know?
Yeah, I'll.

462
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:00,520
I don't.
I did not like the proofs.

463
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,800
Yeah, so you would.
The idea of geometry is that you

464
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,760
agree to certain basically
undeniable axioms and then you

465
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,520
build up from there.
And so that's what the idealists

466
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,920
want to do.
Like let's just rationalize what

467
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,080
are these axioms that we can
know for sure and then reads

468
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,520
them, reads them up from there.
And then once we know that, then

469
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,320
we can kind of maybe make sense
of what our world is around us.

470
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:28,800
Yeah, so it can you give a good
example of one problem or one

471
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,040
thing?
Each approach looks at it

472
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,680
differently.
Yeah, that is a good question.

473
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,480
Maybe even, you know, as simple
as I don't know why trees always

474
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,600
get invoked in philosophy, but
they seem like they do.

475
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,720
But like, how do you know what a
tree is?

476
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,000
So, you know, empiricists would
say you go out there, you

477
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:55,440
measure it, you define it, you
may make definitions of it where

478
00:24:55,480 --> 00:25:01,520
it a idealist might try to
reason from certain facts about

479
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,400
the world, about life and stuff,
and then define what a tree is.

480
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,920
That might be different
approaches that might be more

481
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:15,360
simple.
So there's these big words in

482
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:21,960
philosophy a posteriori or a
priori, which is, are we going

483
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,720
to come to a conclusion after
we've interrogated facts or come

484
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,200
to a conclusion before we've
interrogated the facts?

485
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,200
So the idealists are a priori
because they want to like come

486
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,840
to these conclusions before they
enter it.

487
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:42,880
So big names in the empiricism,
Locke, John Locke, Berkeley, I

488
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,480
think his name starts with I
think it may be George Berkeley,

489
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,440
but George last name here.
So maybe we can look it up.

490
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,920
And then Hume is also a big name
in in this.

491
00:25:53,960 --> 00:26:01,520
So and then for the imperial
empiricist, we have our big

492
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:07,880
names are I just had them here,
Descartes, Descartes, Spinoza.

493
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,800
And it seemed like there was one
more Leibniz.

494
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:12,360
Sweet.
Yeah.

495
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:18,720
So they're going to claim that,
you know, you, you, you got to

496
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:22,080
obviously you can't just start
with what you what you see.

497
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:26,800
So that is kind of the where
we're going to stop for this

498
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:27,840
this session.
So.

499
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,760
Painting this colliding of two
different viewpoints that are at

500
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,080
odds with each other.
Yeah, hopefully you come, you

501
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,920
come away with that eventually.
Can't.

502
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,480
So if you've decided Tanta is
going to try to merge the two

503
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,880
together and he's going to say
it doesn't really matter if we

504
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,720
can't get to cause one side, you
know, the the idealist is going

505
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,000
to say you can't really know the
real world.

506
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:57,400
So empiricist, you're wrong.
And the empiricist is going to

507
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,480
say you by just you will never
get to the real world just from

508
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,280
your idealism.
So Khan is gonna say it doesn't

509
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,320
matter if we can't really know
the real world.

510
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:11,440
What we what we experience
becomes the real world for us,

511
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,280
even though it may not be the
actual world.

512
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,640
It's like perception is reality.
Essentially.

513
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,160
OK, exactly, exactly.
So and and so then you have all

514
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,920
these, you have Kant, then
Hegel, then Marx and all the you

515
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,200
know from there.
OK, yeah, little history lesson.

516
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,600
I like it getting to So teaser
for next week.

517
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:35,640
Next week we'll we'll talk about
why, how this divide is here,

518
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,280
and then why Descartes does what
he does to get to.

519
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:39,520
I think therefore I am.
Yeah.

520
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,040
Sweet.
I love it.

521
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,160
Philosophy episode one of three.
That's our take.

522
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:47,920
Thanks for listening to Take
Two.

523
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,240
Find us wherever you find
podcasts and on YouTube for

524
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,960
those who want to watch our
video cast.