Presuppositional Apologetics | The Transcendental Argument for God

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Tag.
You're it.

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Hey, that's that's the if you're
just trying to be cool in

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apologetic circles, just just
say tag transcendental argument

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for God, I guess.
Yes, transcendental argument for

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God.
I didn't even know that they had

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that and I was asking some
questions back and forth with

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chat and it I said
transcendental argument and then

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it came back with tag and I was
like is this a common?

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Thing like the lingo, all the
kids are all the new

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apologetics.
Cool kids are just, you know,

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tag and we've covered this in,
you know, a previous episode,

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but this will be good through
maybe closer to precept and you

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can give your insight like, hey,
this is like exactly the same.

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It's different, you know, the
the nuances, maybe it's the

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exact same.
We'll we'll kind of get into it

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today and then at the end of the
episode, I think this might be

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helpful.
Talk about the Sproul Bonson

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debate, specifically the
concerns in the beginning of

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this debate.
Sproul was like, love you

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Bonson.
Here's 7 or 9.

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There's a bunch here.
I got a list of concerns.

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This is what concerns me about
precept and went through them.

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Some were big, some were small,
but I think they're helpful as

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we and we've kind of discussed
some of these.

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I have a list of concerns too
that I compiled me and I was

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like, here are my concerns.
I was I was asking chat what are

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some other concerns that people
listen?

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So I wonder how much that
they'll.

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Overlap maybe?
Yeah.

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How much you speak like Sperle?
I love it.

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Well, let's go ahead and take it
to the next level.

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Let's fire up that twanga music.
From the hearts of the Low

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Country in South Carolina.
It's the Take Two podcast, but

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we take theology to the next
level.

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If God does not exist, you
cannot prove anything at all.

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That's not like a preceptor.
It does.

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I gotta be like on the street
preaching and like yelling.

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I think that that is basically
true.

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You I I think that there are
other systems potentially like

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Platonism might be able to make
a claim that we can ground

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logic.
I don't know that their system.

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I think their system fails for
other reasons.

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But in that specific area.
It doesn't make sense to me that

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there's the form of a, a
triangle out there and it's the

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most trianglest triangle that
there ever is 'cause there's

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also on this idea there's a form
of an air fryer out there and

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it's the most air fryer that an
air fryer can be.

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It is the very, it has the most
air fryerness that's there.

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It's like everything that exists
it it is basically bringing down

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a form.
So I only reason I say that is

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even though I don't believe
Platonism, I think you might be

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overstating your case if you're
saying that that that

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Christianity is the only system
that could ground logic.

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Islam can probably ground logic.
OK, yeah, you know what I'm

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saying?
Like an authority and you know a

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preceptor might say not only I
mean in the vein of you can't

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prove anything at all.
You can't prove science, you

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can't prove logic, not morality.
You can't even say the statement

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God doesn't exist and that you
know they would ground this is

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this is what the Bible this
biblical worldview, this this is

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the reality based on this
transcendental arguments.

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I'll.
Try not to say too much.

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Oh, it's good.
But Chiman.

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Yeah, Chiman it.
Seems like maybe you know 'cause

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this is we're arguing for in and
you might put this argument into

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a syllogism.
Like if God does not exist, then

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logic does not exist.
Logic does does exist, therefore

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God exists.
I don't know why the ID method

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per Paul Frank gives you a
probable God.

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And and I, I wanna say, is it
we, we should get I need to look

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this up.
Is it Paul Taylor?

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Oh, am I saying Frank the whole
time?

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Yeah, we, we, we've got back and
forth a.

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Little bit Sorry, it's Paul.
Frank Taylor.

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Paul.
Frank, there's go.

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So we're we're all right.
That's right.

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Oh man, I I now you should have
corrected me earlier in the

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last.
One I know, I just thought about

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it.
Now, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Paul Taylor.
Paul Taylor.

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So I need to put like a little
flash on our previous episode.

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Paul Taylor.
Yeah, Paul Taylor.

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That's good.
But Paul Taylor would say that

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that these other, well, he he
specifically said this.

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Sorry, I know I'm already
derailing.

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It hey, he wrote this guy wrote
a a thesis state a a a whole

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research paper on this book.
And that was only halfway done.

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I've added more to it since
then.

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It's going on Goodreads, so
you'll you I'll, I'll eventually

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share it with you.
But he says he makes a statement

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that the Kalam cosmological
argument only proves the God of

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the philosophers, not the God of
the Bible.

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He does not have the attributes
of the God of the Bible and

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therefore it is an idolatrous
God.

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And the Kalam cosmological
argument is sinful to give that

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argument.
How is that different than this

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argument, the transcendental
argument?

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You're not going to find that
this God.

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Is a you necessarily have to.
Have all the attributes of the

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God of the Bible.
So it's just, it's just crazy to

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me.
I think you could take this

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argument and you could say, you
know the Old Testament.

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You don't get all of the
attributes of God in the Old

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Testament and therefore the Old
Testament proves a blast.

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It's blasphemous 'cause it
proves a it's like no one, no

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one really thinks that way.
I have a moth land on me, but no

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one, no one thinks that way.
So and so this is will cut

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against the the tag argument as
well.

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But there you.
I like that.

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Well, with that being said,
let's jump into it and let's

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take it to the next level.
Bam bam bam bam.

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Did we already take it the next?
We already took it to the next

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level.
Well, let's, let's, let's take

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it to even higher level.
I'm just blindly, you know,

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running along here.
'Cause I wrote that in there to

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remind us to take it to the
next.

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Level.
I guess it's better to do it

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twice than not at all.
Let's jump.

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Do you want to run through the
description passages or do you

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want to jump to what is tag?
Maybe we should talk about what

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is tag and then it's great come
back.

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You want to do that?
Let's do.

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That 'cause you've already kind
of set that up a little bit.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So transcendental argument, I

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think we talked about it.
Most of the time it's given in

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a.
Let's see if I can remember this

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modus tollens or.
Modus ponens.

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Oh, I remember us talking about
it now.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I I can't remember which

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one's which I should, but one of
them, the classical argument is

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P, then QPQ.
Nice.

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I think that's modus ponens.
I think that's right.

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You should you should tell me
Modus.

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We'll just go with that.
The opposite is not Q, not P.

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Pardon me?
Yeah, let's see.

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Yeah.
If not Q, then not PPQ.

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OK, So what we're saying is, and
that's most of the time we give

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it in that phrase.
So like the the the moral

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argument will say that if God
does not exist, then objective

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moral duties and obligations do
not exist.

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OK, yeah, I gotcha.
But objective moral duties and

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obligations do exist.
That's right.

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Therefore I.
See.

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That's good.
And that's the same form for the

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tag.
If you know knowledge logic, you

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could put that in there.
You know if God does not exist,

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logic does not exist.
Logic exists, therefore God

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exists.
OK, gotcha.

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That is essentially the
transmental argument that God is

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the necessary foundation that
makes reasonable reasoning

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possible in the 1st place.
We talked about Cornelius van

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'til.
I love people that have three

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names like, you know, they're
important.

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Greg Bonson talks about a lot, a
lot really, that that's the

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foundation, the precondition for
logic, science, morality,

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knowledge.
We talked about this last week.

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It's not saying here's evidence,
therefore God exists.

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This is trying to argue without
God you wouldn't even have

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evidence, logic or reasoning in
the first place.

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The internal critique method.
Now keep going right?

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Yeah, so a pre supper might say
that.

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They might say, I haven't given
you evidence that God exists,

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but you have.
You're calling him out, you're

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saying?
You're, you're saying, hey,

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look, just like I was saying in
the last episode, like they're

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pointing out like, hey, look at
this, this thing right here,

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it's declaring the glory of God
is telling us more about God.

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This is evidence that God
exists.

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Look, here's logic.
It's and, and I, I have no

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problem with that.
Just don't get on to me from

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saying here's the beginning of
the universe.

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It had to have something that
caused it.

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Here's fine tuning in the
universe, here's morality.

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You know, those type of things.
Let's talk the internal critique

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method.
So they probably wouldn't say

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today I'm going to prove
Christianity to you.

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They're actually going to ask
you can your worldview actually

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explain reality anyway?
And, and, and really the goal is

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what we talked about a lot is
just try trying to show where it

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collapses, where it's
inconsistent.

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Show them their worldview.
It is bad.

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What?
And then what they would say is

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we're not going to adopt this
worldview.

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We're going to expose it
essentially.

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So for example, an atheist might
say only science gives truth.

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They might say, is that
statement scientifically proven

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or is that a philosophical
assumption?

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And and so they're, they're just
trying to ask these questions to

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reveal inconsistency.
Next, if you listen to any of

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these debates, we love to talk
laws of logic.

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Are you gonna jump in with
something?

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Different.
I was just trying to find out

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where you were in the notes so I
could follow along with you.

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Where?
Where?

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I'm in Section 3, the three
pillars of tag.

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OK, gotcha.
Gotcha, gotcha.

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Sorry.
The laws of logic so and this

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comes up in the bots and debate.
They talk about them being

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universal, unchanging and
abstract or not, not physical.

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And and this is like the exact
thing Botson goes to the law of

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non contradiction.
You know, a is not equal to non

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A essentially, is this a prompt
for atheism?

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They would say, yes.
You know, if reality is only

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matter, if it's only particles
in motion, then how do we

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account for these immaterial,
universal, abstract, unchanging

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laws?
Where where do these things come

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from?
And so they'll ask questions

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like, you know, are is logic
physical?

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Is it cultural?
Is a personal preference.

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Where do you run into trouble?
Listen, listen.

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I've listened to some of these
debates and if they don't like,

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if you can't, if you can't agree
on this, then it is real.

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It's really you're not going
anywhere.

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Yeah, If I were an atheist, I
might say something like this to

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to counter the.
If I if I was like put in the

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atheist seat, I might say
something like.

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The fact that there is being
that something exists indicates

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that we have to have something
like the.

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So the three laws of logic are
the law of identity.

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I can say what something is and
it is that like a is.

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A Yep, makes sense.
The law.

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Of non contradiction, a is not
not A and the law of excluded

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middle, like for a well defined
property, either you're a or not

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a.
You're not something in the

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middle.
That's right.

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There's no Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.

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So those are the three laws of
logic and those kind of come

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into the fact if anything
exists, you have to have that

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00:11:46,680 --> 00:11:49,320
because you can't have both
existence and not like you can't

230
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:54,040
say, you know, Aristotle is
famous for designing truth, for

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00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,640
defining truth as to say of what
is that it is to say of what is

232
00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,120
not that is not that is true.
To say of what is that it is not

233
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,640
or to say of what is not that it
is that is false.

234
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:10,600
You know, just a basic
definition that true means that

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00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,960
something reflects reality.
OK, that makes sense.

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00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,920
So an atheist might come back
and say that and then I would

237
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:21,080
just say great.
So that being has what you know,

238
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,880
what caused the being to to be
there.

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00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:30,120
Like when I say being, I don't
mean I mean existence itself has

240
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:35,720
has to be around Parmenides
would say a being existence

241
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,680
itself can either come into
existence or go out of

242
00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:41,720
existence.
To come into existence,

243
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,600
something would have had been
there to start it.

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00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,120
It can't go out of existence.
So cause for it to go out of

245
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,080
existence, something has to be
causing it to go out of

246
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,360
existence.
And of course, the next great

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00:12:52,360 --> 00:13:00,360
philosopher, what's her name,
she sings in Sound of Music.

248
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:01,480
I can't.
Remember, I can't believe.

249
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,280
Julie Andrews, she sings, you
know, nothing comes from

250
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,360
nothing, nothing ever will.
So she picks up on Parmenides

251
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,040
there.
That's that's the funny part.

252
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:11,560
But I messed it up by not
remembering her name.

253
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:19,840
So anyways, so this is This is
why I think a preceptor might

254
00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,840
just say this and walk away.
And I'm like, there's more

255
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,840
conversation to be had here
about 'cause.

256
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,360
I, I, I think you're right,
'cause I've listened to a lot of

257
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,960
preceptors, like, argue on this
and that's exactly it.

258
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,920
They, they really do focus on
this, you know, unchanging,

259
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,040
universal, that that's really
what they're beating at Trump

260
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:40,400
versus like everything you just
said.

261
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:43,000
And I agree with, I agree with
them.

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00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,760
I'm not saying that I don't
disagree with it.

263
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,760
But it's like one of those
things like you, you can't

264
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,960
expect you to say something and
the other person just to put

265
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,400
down their arms and say, yeah.
Oh, I take you at face value,

266
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,160
right?
Yeah, That that makes sense.

267
00:13:57,680 --> 00:13:59,800
Next area, The uniformity of
nature.

268
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:01,960
I've heard this get hit on a
lot.

269
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,040
That that really.
Science assumes that what

270
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,240
happens in the future will be
like the past.

271
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:09,720
Gravity's still gonna work
today.

272
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,280
It's gonna work tomorrow.
Physics don't randomly change.

273
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,760
So.
So the problem is you.

274
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,960
You want to expose This is why
should that be true?

275
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,080
If the universe is random, if
it's unguided, if it's

276
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,320
accidental, then why do you have
this consistency?

277
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,160
Why do you expect the same thing
to happen tomorrow?

278
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,040
I agree that this is good.
It's a good argument.

279
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,600
I I also agree that this would
give us a good indication that

280
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,840
nuclear decay rates don't change
over time.

281
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,240
Oh, OK, there you go.
There you go.

282
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:41,000
There shots fired for the the
young Earth creationists.

283
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,520
Oh, and and you know, if they're
trying to illustrate this,

284
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,920
'cause I you're getting 2 for
one with Paul Taylor, right?

285
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,800
Right.
I mean, maybe there are, and I

286
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:51,920
wonder if there are any old
earth presuppers.

287
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,760
I I would just assume that RC
Sproul, I don't know RC Sproul's

288
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,800
creationist view.
I don't know if he's young Earth

289
00:14:58,800 --> 00:14:59,640
or old Earth.
I don't know.

290
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,240
Well, I know that there are
young earth classical

291
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,400
apologetics.
I wonder if there are any old

292
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,320
earth presuppers?
That's what.

293
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:07,400
Oh, yeah, I see what you're
saying.

294
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:07,840
Yeah.
Yeah.

295
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,920
I'm trying to think.
I don't know enough presuppers.

296
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,720
Yeah, I don't find out.
'Cause I think you I the presupp

297
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,000
presummers.
I know they tend to have their

298
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,560
young earth presub and Calvinist
that like.

299
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,160
All those three things go.
Together.

300
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,440
Yeah, Yeah, I, I think you might
be right.

301
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,440
And so on this science point,
you know, you wouldn't expect to

302
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,680
wake up tomorrow and gravity's
reversing, fire's freezing or

303
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:33,760
time runs backwards.
Everyone would say that's

304
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:35,240
absurd.
You should be like, why is that

305
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:36,120
so absurd?
Like what?

306
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,320
Why is there even consistency?
Their answer is God is faithful.

307
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,160
He's consistent, He sustains his
creation in an orderly way.

308
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,800
But you atheists, you really
have no, no grounds for this

309
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,040
next one.
Moral absolutes.

310
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,840
People will say murder's wrong,
racism is bad, justice matters.

311
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:55,600
Probably talked about this
before.

312
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,240
In a godless universe, there's
really no standard, only

313
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,720
preferences or, you know,
evolutions going to do its

314
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,240
thing.
So, so really at the end of the

315
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,520
day, is morality objective?
Is it binding on all people or

316
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,440
is it subjective?
Just a matter opinion.

317
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,040
If it is objective, The classic
question, by what standard?

318
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,600
You gotta have a standard you're
appealing to.

319
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,440
The Christian would say God's
character.

320
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,960
It's not arbitrary.
It's rooted in who God is.

321
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,480
Any all good, all good.
We're we're we're tracking,

322
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,800
we're good.
Let's move on to Section 4.

323
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,600
The impossibility of the
contrary.

324
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:38,320
Greg Bonson and one of his
debates, one of his, his writing

325
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,080
says the proof of Christianity
is that without it, you couldn't

326
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:43,800
prove anything.
You're not just saying

327
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,040
Christianity works, but that
everything hinges.

328
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,080
Everything else would fail
without it.

329
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:55,160
They really hinge in on, sorry,
RC Sproul famously said that not

330
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,440
only do I see the sun, but by
the sun, I see everything

331
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,240
through it.
And I think this is what they're

332
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:07,359
saying.
And again, I, I think that you

333
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,920
could, you could probably ground
logic in a couple of other

334
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,839
systems.
I don't think those systems are

335
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:17,560
good for other reasons.
So you, you might, if, if you're

336
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:22,760
giving this argument that
Christianity, because we're

337
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,000
changing words here, because
above it was like God's

338
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,760
existence.
Now we're going straight to a

339
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,320
particular version of God's
existence.

340
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,680
And I don't know that you can
make that leap just from logic

341
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,040
alone.
That's why we would say give

342
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,680
good evidence that the Bible's
trustworthy, that, you know, all

343
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,000
those things, you know, Christ,
you know, risen from the grave.

344
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:50,000
You know, if, if a guy says he's
going to die and comes back to

345
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,240
life and then he does that, he's
someone you should listen to,

346
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:57,920
right?
To start, so so to like recap

347
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,200
some of these arguments of an
atheist says there's no truth,

348
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,840
preceptor might say, is that
statement true?

349
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,680
If an atheist say, hey, my
worldview atheism is based on

350
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,520
science, you might say why even
trust science in a random

351
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,440
universe?
Lastly, an atheist might say

352
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,840
morality is subjective.
Preceptor would respond.

353
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,680
So you're saying genocide's not
objectively wrong?

354
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,040
I think the Holocaust was good,
you know?

355
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,560
Yeah, and these are the exact
same things, I think those types

356
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,880
of things I think a classical
apologist does.

357
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:32,480
All day long we try to reveal
the the bad thinking that

358
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,840
underlies atheism and the fact
that to be a good consistent

359
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:41,760
atheist, you have to say that
the Holocaust or not the

360
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:46,240
Holocaust is is ultimately is
like picking vanilla or

361
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,520
chocolate ice.
Cream, it's just a preference.

362
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:54,240
Yeah, that is crazy.
Let's skip down to some of this

363
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,880
Sprole Bahnson debate.
I and I thought this debate was

364
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,480
really good.
And I think people people don't

365
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,800
like to enter debates because I
think they especially in this

366
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,800
day and age, you think you're
gonna look bad, get a social

367
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,520
clip.
But this debate was good.

368
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,800
Were they really we're able to
like they in the cross

369
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,720
examination they were able to
talk back and forth a little bit

370
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,120
like it was very friendly.
I thought it was good positive

371
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,480
learning I have.
I need to relisten to this one,

372
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,440
I need to relisten to both of
the Bondsen ones 'cause it's

373
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,160
probably been five years since
I've listened to them, but we

374
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:29,480
really studied them back in like
I think I graduated 2018, so

375
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,200
maybe like 2015, 2016, We've
really studied them and I've

376
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,560
listened to them a couple times
since then.

377
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,320
But yeah.
Yeah, they're they're they're

378
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,760
good.
Bodson obviously is presub Van

379
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,400
Till style RC sprawl this
classical evidential approach.

380
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,680
They both at the outset would
talk about, you know, we have

381
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,880
firm biblical authority believe
Christianity is rational, reject

382
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,560
neutrality in a total sense,
kind of like what you're you're

383
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,880
like I agree with all these
things, but they differ in how

384
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,840
you would argue for
Christianity, what role human

385
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,480
reason place Bodson this Presub
position.

386
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,200
We've hit these No neutrality
exists.

387
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,320
All reasoning starts with
presuppositions.

388
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,280
Presuppositions #2 God is the
precondition for

389
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,560
intelligibility, logic, science.
Morality only makes sense of

390
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,240
Christianity is true #3.
Again, yeah.

391
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:23,200
And I, I wonder if you know,
because it says God up top and

392
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,880
Christianity in the sub bullet.
And that's a leap to me, 'cause

393
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,040
there's there's a classical
Christianity would say, a

394
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,600
classical apologetics would say
that is another step to get from

395
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,160
theism to Christianity.
So you're just noticing 'cause

396
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,440
we that's been a, a few of this
year #3 they would use that tag

397
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,920
transitional argument for God to
show that these other non

398
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:47,960
Christian worldviews collapse
internally.

399
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,200
And then they would reject
autonomous human reason that

400
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,640
your reason must be submitted to
God's revelation because you

401
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,360
could be on the wrong.
I mean, you know, if you're not,

402
00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:04,120
you'll be on the wrong track.
So Sprole his his core point, he

403
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,880
he made the argument that there
is this form of functional

404
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,960
neutrality.
Maybe there's not moral

405
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:14,040
neutrality, you know, AKA Romans
one, but you can have a thought

406
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,880
experiment, you can have this
rational common grounds if.

407
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,440
If you couldn't, how could you
talk?

408
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,200
With anyone there, you can't.
Yeah, yeah.

409
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,360
And that, that's good.
He really harped on natural

410
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:25,000
theology we read about in the
Bible.

411
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,920
He was like, and what I loved is
that Sproull was like, hey, you

412
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,600
ever heard of John Calvin?
Like just knowing that like hits

413
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,320
a nerve with with he's like,
he's like, let me quote John

414
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,640
Calvin for you for a little bit.
And he like had his like, quote

415
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,840
his, you know, citations ready
'cause I was like, where is

416
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,000
that?
You know, like, you know, trying

417
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,960
to look at that where Romans 1
supports the arguments for from

418
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,240
creation.
When you look at these other

419
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,480
arguments outside of the
transitional argument,

420
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,440
cosmological argument, the
teleological argument, those are

421
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,200
legitimate as well because the
presub camp like dismisses all

422
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,400
of these other ones.
Like they they say, I don't know

423
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,880
if it's flawed, but they're like
it has been shown like and like

424
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,800
it's like been debunked.
He might have even said

425
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,280
debunked.
I don't know if he said that,

426
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,480
but you know what I mean?
Like says like, oh, those have

427
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,240
been, and it might not have been
Sprole Bonson, but Bonsenstein.

428
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,120
He might have just been
conceding that being like, hey,

429
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:18,720
I agree.
Those have been, I think Stein

430
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,320
said debunked.
But but you know, Bonson was

431
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:23,400
like, hey, I'm right there with
you, man.

432
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,320
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of
interesting, right?

433
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,840
Sprole says.
Using evidence and reason to

434
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,360
point to God is good that
Christianity's not just

435
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:34,800
presupposed, but you can
demonstrate it, you can look out

436
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,040
and see it.
And unbelievers can also reason

437
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,320
truly, maybe not perfectly,
because they they're made in

438
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:42,600
God's image.
That counts for something.

439
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:48,520
Right.
Yeah, it seems like they pre

440
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,160
suppers want to take like little
slices here but then take the

441
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,080
other slice there like you know
what I'm saying?

442
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:55,840
Yeah, I I see what you're
saying.

443
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,080
Yeah, they're not consistent in
what they're doing.

444
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:03,560
I was just going to read, you
know, Well, Thomas's Doubting is

445
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:03,720
a.
Big.

446
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,160
Oh yeah, that was it.
Plays a big.

447
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:12,880
Role in Paul Frank Taylor's book
and I think it comes to the

448
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,840
wrong conclusion on that.
This is good like.

449
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,800
Thomas's doubting is
unreasonable doubting.

450
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,640
He has been given like guess
what, he was given evidence,

451
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,720
eyewitness account of people
seeing Jesus resurrected from

452
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,320
the dead and he saw Jesus's
miracles.

453
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,840
And when he does, when he is
confronted with Jesus, the

454
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,280
person, he, I don't even know
that he actually does like Jesus

455
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,080
says, here's my hands, here's my
side.

456
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,400
And he just falls down his feet
and he says, you know, my Lord,

457
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:49,040
my God, the very next verse,
John says many more things Jesus

458
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,120
has done.
And you know, we couldn't

459
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:54,520
contain the count of them.
But these have been written so

460
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:59,640
that you may believe, right?
John's given evidence right now.

461
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,640
I think a preceptor would say,
well, he's given evidence that I

462
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,160
don't know what that Jesus is
true, but you would never he,

463
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,920
you'd never give evidence that
God exists.

464
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:10,360
Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah, yeah.

465
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,040
If they would make yeah that.
Hyper the distinction between

466
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,840
those yeah yeah but I just say
that to say like the whole Bible

467
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,640
is evidence Jesus when that's.
A form of evidence.

468
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,680
That's good, yeah.
Yeah, when the the paralytic man

469
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:28,680
is brought down, he turns to him
and I, I just love you know what

470
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,000
you these pictures you get of
Jesus, 'cause you know, he's

471
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,280
just poking and the Pharisees
and he's like your son, your

472
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,880
sins are forgiven.
And he just kind of waits around

473
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,000
looking, knowing that, that the
and he's like, why are you

474
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,240
grumbling in your heart?
And he says, what's easier to

475
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,120
do, to say your sins are
forgiven or to say rise up and

476
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:54,240
walk?
And it's 1 is easy to say but

477
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,160
hard to do. 1 is hard to do but
easy to say.

478
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:02,440
But he says, but so that you
guys can believe that the Son of

479
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,280
man has authority to forgive
sins in heaven on earth, I say

480
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,120
to you, rise up and walk.
And so he's given evidence like

481
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:14,360
he's he is, he's not just.
Saying only believe, right,

482
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,080
Right, right.
Yeah, yeah.

483
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:21,280
I'm giving you evidence.
So all the miracles, tongues,

484
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,840
all all that stuff, evidence
that we can believe.

485
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:26,920
That's great.
Let's talk about is there any

486
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,800
neutral ground?
This was a point of disagreement

487
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,280
in there debate.
Bahnson is totally on the path

488
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,880
of neutrality is a myth.
All reasoning is worldview

489
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,840
driven.
Sprole's kind of like, well, we

490
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,200
we can't have this shared
rational arena 'cause if we

491
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,120
couldn't, we can't argue with
unbelievers at all.

492
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:46,520
Just I mean, we like we, we like
only have gospel conversations

493
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:47,960
and that's the only thing you
can have.

494
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,720
Which begs the question, what
what's the role of human reason?

495
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,680
What's the point of human
reason?

496
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,800
Botsa kind of rejects autonomous
reason and says, you know,

497
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,000
you'll look at classical
evidential apologetics.

498
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,400
You're you're given too much,
you're given too much to human

499
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:09,040
thinking because man has fallen.
Like, what can you expect?

500
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,800
Essentially?
Sprole agrees.

501
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,040
Reason has fallen, but and we're
in God's image there.

502
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,280
There's things we can use.
It's valid, it's usable, and

503
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,960
he's concerned that if you take
a precept view at at some level,

504
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,440
if you don't, even if you don't
believe it, you can sound like

505
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,840
you're undermining rational
argument in of itself 'cause

506
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,880
you're not.
You're like refusing to engage.

507
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,000
If if you're a hyper Calvinist.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

508
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,080
And you believe that you get
I'll use it pejoratively.

509
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,600
I know I'm, I'm poking at you a
little bit, but if you believe

510
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,400
people get zapped and
regenerated and that

511
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,120
regeneration happens before
faith chronologically, so you're

512
00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:52,960
zapped and then sometime later
in your life you come to faith,

513
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,480
then I guess you're OK with
this.

514
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,680
Because when you're given the
gospel, you are reasoning with

515
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,680
people and you are asking them
to make a judgement about their

516
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:11,200
sin, their guilt, who Christ is.
You cannot get around reasoning

517
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,960
with people.
And I I guess if you're a hyper

518
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,960
Calvinist, you don't have to
give the gospel anyways.

519
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,680
Right.
You don't you don't have to you

520
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,680
don't have to evangelize, but
for us good, the correct normal

521
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:29,000
Calvinist who believe that God
works sovereignly through both.

522
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,800
He works through means to
accomplish his sovereign end,

523
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,480
then you are going to be
reasoning with someone.

524
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,280
So I think this just cuts too
far.

525
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,880
Like they say it and they think
they're sounding sounding,

526
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,120
saying something good, but it
it's, it's not if, if what

527
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:48,240
they're saying is true, then you
can't, can't give the gospel out

528
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,440
'cause you're asking people to
reason.

529
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,160
Another point of disagreement,
you know, can you prove God or

530
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,400
only or, or do you presuppose
God?

531
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,720
Bahnson would say God must be
presupposed.

532
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,320
That's the foundation.
Sproul would say You can't argue

533
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,080
for God's existence.
Evidence logic point to and and

534
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,600
underneath that Sproul was
concerned that a pre supper, it

535
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,560
can really just sound like we
assume God.

536
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,240
We don't argue for him.
We just assume him.

537
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,440
We're not going to say anything.
And he wanted some of these

538
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,920
arguments like we've talked
about in previous episode, to be

539
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,320
accessible to to unbelievers.
And if you're just not going to

540
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,560
talk about these, it's like
they're just not there, you know

541
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,200
what I mean?
Yeah, it's hard for me to go

542
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,080
from three to to four.
We don't prove God, we

543
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,240
presuppose him.
The transcendental argument for

544
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,040
God is the ultimate proof of
that God exists.

545
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,480
Yeah, yeah, I, I, I know what
you're saying.

546
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,680
And it's like, that's the,
that's like the one argument

547
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:48,120
they'll hang their hat on.
Sproul likes like you, the

548
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,200
traditional argument.
But he does question, you know,

549
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,920
sometimes.
He's basically saying there's

550
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,520
other arguments you can use, you
know?

551
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,960
Yeah.
And I think what Sproul points

552
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:04,960
out here is the fact that when
we're talking like this, you use

553
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,920
a transcendental argument to try
to say that people know God

554
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,320
exist and what?
But in practice, when you use

555
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,200
it, you yes, this is you are you
are saying that therefore God

556
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,640
does exist, not therefore you
know God exists.

557
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,120
And those are different
statements.

558
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,040
And that kind of leads to this
main concerns that your

559
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:26,800
arguments can sound very
circular.

560
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,280
You must believe in God to prove
God and it can feel like

561
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,040
question begging.
It can be unpersuasive at the no

562
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,160
one, no one likes.
Same thing with Paul Frank

563
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,600
Taylor's book.
You know all he would say.

564
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,960
All of the evidence looks like
it's points to evolution when

565
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:48,000
you're an evolutionist.
OK, I guess it's OK to be an

566
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,280
evolutionist because they don't
see anything wrong with the

567
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,840
evidence, right?
There, there, there you go.

568
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,320
Spro was also concerned that it
it your natural revelation is

569
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,240
there.
You're totally downplaying it.

570
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,680
Even though you affirm Romans 1
presuppers, you're not utilizing

571
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,440
these natural theology arguments
and and there's missed

572
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,000
opportunities everywhere you
look.

573
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,320
There is a reason you you're
able to reason from creation to

574
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,400
creator that that's a big part
of natural revelation.

575
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,120
He's also concerned that it
makes Christians seem anti

576
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,880
intellectual if misunderstood.
It can be like evidence doesn't

577
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,760
matter, reason doesn't work and
it's like we don't want to be.

578
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,520
We don't want to be like in that
camp.

579
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,360
Yeah, Ken Ham specifically said
I am no longer going to provide

580
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,360
evidence that creation is true.
I'm just going to try to shotgun

581
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,920
your worldview, your
presuppositions.

582
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,880
I'm going to say that your
presuppositions are bad.

583
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,160
And you, if you start with the
right presuppositions, then

584
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,840
you'll you'll end up the right
spot.

585
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,880
That's like that's.
Yeah.

586
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:51,920
Is that super?
Helpful.

587
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,080
That's not helpful.
And and it leads to something

588
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,160
that that Sprole really was
concerned about.

589
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,880
It risked miscommunication and
evangelism that you can make it

590
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,560
inaccessible.
You can like shut down

591
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,320
conversations.
That could be you're just going

592
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:05,440
to, you're not throwing out of
these seats.

593
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:06,640
You're just like, boom, boom,
boom.

594
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,760
Yes, Sir, you know.
Yeah, yeah, there.

595
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,000
You know, Harold, camping people
would.

596
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,680
They would try to rile him up,
they'd call him call up and say,

597
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,560
Hey, what, what must I do to be
saved?

598
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,640
And he would say, I can't tell
you what to do to be saved.

599
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,920
That's a sovereign work of God
in your heart.

600
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,480
And so and and I mean, I think
he's being consistent with his

601
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,280
hyper Calvinism.
So if you're a hyper Calvinist,

602
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,440
then it doesn't really matter if
you miscommunicating the

603
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,240
evangelism or not.
You don't have to be winsome,

604
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:38,760
which, you know, at the end of
end of his book, Paul Frank

605
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,160
Taylor's book, he talks about
being winsome.

606
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,520
Why you had to be winsome.
Just if God is going to just,

607
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,120
you know, without means save
people, you don't have to worry

608
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,440
about this.
But if, if you're not a hyper

609
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,560
Calvinist, then all these things
do matter.

610
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,960
You do want to clearly
communicate the gospel.

611
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,800
I, you know, not that I think I,
I do think God is sovereign in

612
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,120
who's going to believe.
So I don't think that I'm going

613
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:08,280
to stop someone from entering
the Kingdom, but man, I could be

614
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,080
a stumbling block to them from
being a Kingdom, right and and

615
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,960
cause more heartache and, you
know, not be a good faithful

616
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,600
servant to to Christ if I'm not
clearly communicating so.

617
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,840
No, I, I, I think, I think all
of that is good.

618
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,040
And really I think that that's
where a good place to end.

619
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,480
Yeah, Talk a lot of priests up.
Got it out there.

620
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,600
I think we did a good job of
articulating what they, but I

621
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,160
think most preceptors, maybe
they don't appreciate all the

622
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,320
push back.
But I think we like, I'm saying

623
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,600
buzzwords that I, I mean, and
I'm not the expert, but made all

624
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,640
the videos watching, it's like
they're saying these exact kind

625
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,200
of things.
Yeah, yeah.

626
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,280
And at least when I bought the
book, it was on sale for like

627
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,480
$2.50.
So you can get only believe at

628
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,840
least a couple weeks ago for
like 2, two, 2 1/2 bucks.

629
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,080
So perhaps it's still on sale.
You can get it an audible list

630
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,280
to it.
It's not a long read.

631
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:09,560
It's like 4 hours, four and. 1/2
And really the goal is to some

632
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,080
people might say Bonson is
inaccessible.

633
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,480
It's really there to be like,
hey, here's like an on ramp or,

634
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,000
you know, really understand,
'cause sometimes you can read

635
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,240
Bonson be like or Van Till and
be like, I don't know what

636
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,040
you're talking about.
Well, there, yeah.

637
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:28,080
It's like, I don't know, like
Hegel comes along after Kant and

638
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,560
philosophy and like there's
different types of Hegelians

639
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,240
after him.
Like there's like two different

640
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:38,240
camps and Karl Marx is in one of
those camps and 'cause there's

641
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,080
they just disagree on what he
was saying.

642
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,520
And I think from what I
understand, there's two

643
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,360
different Van Till camps too.
Like they're like, they're like,

644
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,320
that's not what Van Till meant.
Like, Oh yes, it is.

645
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:53,160
So yeah.
To be fair, I've not read a Van

646
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,040
Till book.
I've not read a Bonson book.

647
00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,800
I've listened to Bonson.
I may I don't know if we have

648
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,000
any recordings of Vantil.
It seems like we did play a

649
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,440
recording of Vantil in in that
class, but it I I could be

650
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,280
wrong, it was a long time ago.
That's great.

651
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,760
Even listening to like these old
debates, which I think the Bonds

652
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,320
and Stein ones like from like
1985 or something, it's not that

653
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,080
old, but it's like the audio and
stuff like it just sound.

654
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,080
It sounds really old.
It's not that old, but sound

655
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:22,960
it's I'm like what?
What?

656
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:24,440
I was like what year was this on
what?

657
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,880
Was y'all not thinking ahead and
trying to preserve this for

658
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,880
posterity?
Like get a good digital camera

659
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,280
there with like 4K, you know?
Yeah.

660
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,040
What are Yeah, what are we doing
here?

661
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,159
It's like that's yeah, that's
and that's only 1985.

662
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:38,280
That's like not that long ago.
It just seems like it's a long

663
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,360
time.
It's like it is it's. 40 years

664
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,280
ago.
We're like, you know, you see

665
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,000
these things where you're like,
we're closer to 19, seven, you

666
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,159
know, you know, it's like we're
farther away from that than

667
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:49,960
this.
We're like, oh, time is like

668
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,120
does not slow down.
I know it's crazy.

669
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:54,320
It is crazy.
Man, well, good.

670
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,120
I think this is a great time to
transition.

671
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:58,160
Some of us were born in the late
1900s.

672
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,680
I know that's that's insane.
Yeah, that's very true.

673
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,560
Well, let's let's get to the our
final take here.

674
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,480
Oh yeah, you heard about Jade
and Ivy?

675
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,240
I heard about it, yeah.
Yeah.

676
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,080
I didn't really look into all
the details, but from what I

677
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:17,240
heard, it seemed like not a
great, not a great situation.

678
00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:20,280
It's it the way it was painted
to me or what I read was like

679
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,520
this guy's a he believer.
He tweeted something, hurry, I

680
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,400
don't remember what he said.
And then he was like, released

681
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,000
by the Bulls.
Yeah.

682
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,160
And and it was like, I don't
know how good a basketball

683
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,080
player he is.
Like, is he, is he good enough

684
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:32,080
that he shouldn't have been
released?

685
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,840
Or is he like so so and like?
We don't need the controversy.

686
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,200
I don't know.
I don't follow the Easter.

687
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,720
I mean, I don't follow
basketball closes.

688
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:42,200
I I used to he he.
Posted Sorry.

689
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,640
He posted a video on Instagram
Live criticizing the NBA support

690
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,080
of the LGBTQ community and Pride
Month, labeling it as

691
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,160
unrighteous.
It was a 42 minute video.

692
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,120
He discussed his religious
beliefs and claimed God did not

693
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,680
create men to be with men or
woman to be with a woman.

694
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,880
The Bulls, who had just required
acquired Ivy from Detroit in

695
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,840
February, cited conduct
detrimental to the team for his

696
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,640
release.
So they just traded for him and

697
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,360
released them.
He's one of those guys he was

698
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,480
supposed to be good.
Like I think he was a high

699
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,000
lottery pick, like four or five
or seven overall.

700
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,960
And I think he was like he was
kind of, he was fine.

701
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,720
He wasn't, he wasn't great, but
I think they're, I mean, he has

702
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:28,000
some athletic ability if you're
picked that high.

703
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,000
So I I don't follow him too
closely, but I feel like that

704
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,280
that's the one topic you like
don't talk about.

705
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,880
Oh yeah, you can't.
I mean, John Morant like has

706
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,520
Instagram videos, multiple of
him, like holding a gun, you get

707
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,600
suspended for a few games,
you're back, but it's like kind

708
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,440
of crazy that that's like, you
know, I mean, that's not

709
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,640
tolerated by NBA, but by
comparison, it is like it is

710
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,320
kind of a it's like multiple
times he has a gun out.

711
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,880
It's like, what are what?
Are we doing so Trayvon

712
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,960
Henderson?
Man, I like this guy despite him

713
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:03,320
being from Ohio State.
Oh man, that's tough to get

714
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:03,960
over.
But yeah.

715
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:04,680
It is tough.
He's.

716
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,360
A patriot.
And he's a patriot.

717
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,600
Strikes, man, that's very tough.
But man, just a believer, I

718
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:11,040
think.
I've been.

719
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,200
I've talked.
About them before I think.

720
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:18,360
Like he had this video out about
like, hey, I was in sexual sin

721
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,400
and couldn't keep going and I
had to tell my my girlfriend at

722
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,920
the time, who now is his wife.
Like we can't keep doing this.

723
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,680
Like I got to anyone who's going
to be like that vulnerable in a

724
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,440
society that you say that's
crazy.

725
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,360
Like I think he's the real deal.
You know, I don't know why he

726
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,880
would.
Yeah, I mean, obviously I don't

727
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,200
I don't know him well enough to
really know, but all indications

728
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,600
are.
So he came out in in in support

729
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:51,480
of Ivy and and tweeted us like,
you know, then retweeted and

730
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,040
was, you know, saying basically.
That and a lot of other Patriots

731
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,880
were getting on board, coaching
staff in particular.

732
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,920
Oh, wow.
Well, I don't know about the I

733
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:02,080
think there are other believers.
I don't know how he got on

734
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,200
board.
But then Mike Vrabel was asked.

735
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,600
And did you hear what?
He said no, I didn't hear what?

736
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,520
He said, Oh, yeah.
So Mike Vrabel basically said,

737
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,200
yeah, you know, I like
Henderson.

738
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,920
He's a young guy.
I'm paraphrasing, so this is not

739
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,160
a direct quote, so I might get
it.

740
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,720
And he's like, yeah, we want
people to believe what they want

741
00:38:19,720 --> 00:38:21,640
to believe, but yeah, we need to
school them up to be more

742
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,520
inclusive when, you know, in
media.

743
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,680
So basically he's saying
Henderson needs to learn to be

744
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,440
more inclusive with.
His I know where this is going

745
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,680
and that makes that insane.
Yeah, because, like, wait a

746
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,240
minute, are you inclusive of
Henderson's beliefs?

747
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:40,320
Like, you know, there's, there's
probably been a lot for me to

748
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,240
get ticked off at the Patriots
that I haven't.

749
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:46,640
But like, this really has put a
sour taste in my mouth over

750
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,160
Brabel.
Like it's like there.

751
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,160
But nothing else happened with
April, which was good.

752
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,040
It just stopped there, right?
So two days later, I think it

753
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,640
was like literally 2 days later.
Bad timings.

754
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,520
Incredible.
He gets caught with a picture

755
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,400
holding hands with some other
married woman and he's a married

756
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,280
guy.
Man, it's like, you know, it's

757
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,960
like.
God, putting the spotlight on

758
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,480
immorality like you going to,
you're going to call out this

759
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,080
guy and this is what?
You're doing.

760
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,000
That's crazy.
So.

761
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,360
What had the Patriots said
anything at this point?

762
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,120
What's?
The Vrabel released a statement.

763
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:20,360
He said he wanted to talk to the
team.

764
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,720
He said I had a long time.
This woman was random or was she

765
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:24,240
affiliated with the team or
anything?

766
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:26,400
I can't.
I don't know.

767
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:27,520
Why don't you look that up on
him?

768
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:33,120
My, my, the back of my mind says
she was some type of reporter.

769
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:34,960
But I could be wrong.
That could be like totally

770
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:39,960
wrong, but he said he wanted to
talk to the team first.

771
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,480
And I guess they're kind of.
She, yeah, she worked for The

772
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,160
Athletic, but it led to her
resigning.

773
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,480
She's probably forced to resign
from The Athletic, the sports

774
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,240
publication.
She was some type of.

775
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:54,240
Reporter So I'm sorry about
that.

776
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,640
Yeah.
So, yeah, just.

777
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,800
He said he wanted to talk.
And he said that he, he released

778
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,440
a statement.
You know, it was one of those

779
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,600
very vanilla like, you know, I
value family and stuff.

780
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,040
And I've had some tough
conversations with the team and

781
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,320
with my family members and, you
know, so.

782
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,160
Yeah, that's crazy that it is
interesting that she.

783
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:23,400
Yeah, I guess, man, that is
insane.

784
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,160
I wonder what press coverage has
she written on the Patriots or

785
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,280
what was her area like I was.
Wondering it it is such like a a

786
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:33,680
disgusting.
Yeah.

787
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,560
Set of events for me, it's like
I haven't dove into it and I've

788
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,120
been busy like we talked about
them.

789
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,040
Yeah, yeah.
Last weeks podcast.

790
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,400
Man, that is.
And the crazy thing, I think

791
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,640
this is going to be like second
week of May when this hits.

792
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,560
So we're really going to be
removed when this when this airs

793
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,760
because we're trying to get a
little bit ahead for the summer.

794
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,880
But yeah.
Yeah, I really wonder what's the

795
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,800
do you know what the not maybe
not blowback, but the response

796
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,200
has been are people like most
people like man, hypocrite,

797
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,240
inconsistent or they're like,
hey, people just have different

798
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:08,120
views.
Like it's fine.

799
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:09,720
Like, are people like no big
deal?

800
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:17,600
I I on the the patriots link
that I saw where he posted his

801
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,360
views, the comments were we
still love you coach.

802
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,680
Just keep coaching.
Well, it's just the same.

803
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,960
It's like the same thing from,
you know?

804
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,400
Yeah, it seems like the whole
whole culture's that way.

805
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,760
It's so funny.
I was at a work meeting last

806
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,240
week.
Like we had a bunch of like, my

807
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:41,240
boss came to town and she like
manages South Carolina now, but

808
00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:43,440
she also made it like our New
England footprints.

809
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,080
And it just is like so different
in New England.

810
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,360
Like she was like telling a
story about like we were talking

811
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,440
about like dress code.
Like, oh, you know, what are

812
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,200
people you know to work?
What are we allowed to wear?

813
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:55,200
And she's like, Can you believe
it?

814
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,280
Like someone like we allow
people to wear like whatever

815
00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,560
they want as long as they look
professional.

816
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,440
Like we don't have strict rules.
We used to have strict rules

817
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,600
like khakis and like now you can
wear scrubs as long as it looks

818
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,400
nice T-shirt.
She's like, well, we had someone

819
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,360
they wore AT shirt that says
like that said like God's got

820
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,080
this or something and they're
like, boy, it was like the worst

821
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,320
thing in the world.
And we were all kind of like

822
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,040
like there were like so many
patient complaints.

823
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,440
Everyone was calling and it was
huge things like everywhere she

824
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:20,480
went for patience.
Terrible.

825
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,560
I was like, if you wear that
hair, like you get like brownie

826
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,920
points, like, you know, it's
like it's like a whole different

827
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,320
a.
Whole different thing.

828
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:32,200
Because even if you don't like
if you, you can probably find a

829
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,920
few here, but the average
person, even if they're not

830
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,760
religious, if you said something
like, hey, can I pray for you?

831
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,240
Or they'd be like, sure, you can
pray for me.

832
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:41,560
I don't care.
Like they're not going to be

833
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,720
offended at it.
Like, 'cause there's still at

834
00:42:43,720 --> 00:42:47,600
least you know, enough in the
culture that yeah.

835
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,280
It is it is crazy like I and
they all kept talking about

836
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,000
things.
It's like we would like never.

837
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,000
And it's like, hey, like I've
been it's so funny.

838
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,640
Like for these, you know, you
walk around the different

839
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,160
assisted livings.
I've been at places and they're

840
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,080
like, hey, Zach, you go to
church, pray for our lunch or

841
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:01,960
whatever, or you know what I
mean?

842
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,760
It's like a it's like a thing
that like, and it's like older

843
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,840
people too, where it's like we
pray for everything and all

844
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,120
these things too, where they
like she was like, I cannot

845
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,120
believe you, you.
You it would.

846
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:12,880
It would.
It would be.

847
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,080
It would.
Be like, you could even pray.

848
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,560
It's so generic too.
It's not even, it's like.

849
00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:21,120
I know.
I wonder she should wear a shirt

850
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:26,040
that says Allah's got this and.
See with social experiment, yes.

851
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:37,120
What's your take on this Allah?
You know, Allah is just the word

852
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,240
that they.
Use for God.

853
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,600
So Coptic, like Egyptian
Christians, they pray to Allah

854
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,680
because that's the word, that's
their word and their language

855
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:50,240
for God.
So but you know, for us, if

856
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:53,040
someone says a law, it's like,
oh, you're definitely Muslim,

857
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:54,560
you're in Islam.
Yeah, yeah.

858
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,040
Yeah, I don't.
Yeah, we have I've.

859
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,600
So could you could could you as
a Christian wear a shirt that

860
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,440
says Allah has got this and be
OK?

861
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,920
Or do you think you know?
Yeah, I, I probably would not.

862
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:10,440
I probably would have to like
fully commit to like whatever,

863
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,680
whatever language you know, and
just like have it like straight

864
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,120
one way.
Yeah, I, I, I, I, I would.

865
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:17,400
I wouldn't.
I wouldn't love it.

866
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,920
For me.
Yeah, for me.

867
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:24,760
Yeah, yeah.
What about Thor's?

868
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,520
Got this.
No, I wouldn't like that.

869
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,040
Well, I'm saying she could wear
that.

870
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,560
Oh yeah, it's probably fine.
Probably like totally fine,

871
00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:33,560
yeah, probably good.
Probably celebrated.

872
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,520
Zeus has got this.
Yeah, yeah, I know.

873
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,920
It's like, it's one of those
things, it's like.

874
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,320
And God is so generic.
So generic like what?

875
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,040
Yeah.
Brahma's got this, Vishnu's got

876
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,320
this.
Yeah, You know, it was just like

877
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,280
such a, it was one of those
things like, wow, it is like a

878
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,200
different, the word that was
like a huge like HR violent.

879
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:52,560
Like it went all the way up the
chain.

880
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,840
It was like a big deal.
And it's like down here, like,

881
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:57,640
not just way different, you
know?

882
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,560
Yeah.
So you can wear anything, but

883
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,080
not that.
Yeah, yeah, really.

884
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,920
Well, they made it really like
you can't wear like graphic Tees

885
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:07,680
or words.
It's just got to be like, you

886
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,960
wear a black T-shirt if you want
to, or you know, you can wear a

887
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,240
polo, but try not to wear things
that have words on it, so.

888
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:14,720
You couldn't wear a shirt for
The Beatles.

889
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:19,880
Yeah, there you go.
Fox, what are you gonna do?

890
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,440
There you go.
Well, that that was this is that

891
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,680
wraps a precept.
Yeah, I think you had another

892
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,200
tab there, but I think, I mean
they don't want to hear me

893
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:33,040
diatribe in on precept for three
episodes.

894
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,360
That's just yeah, make our whole
podcast I I love it.

895
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:38,920
Who knows what our next series
is?

896
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:40,880
Oh, I think you do know what?
Maybe 1.

897
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,760
I don't know if it comes after
this or comes on the other day.

898
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,240
I think it'll come after this.
Yeah.

899
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:48,320
I think I'm gonna do just a
short one on spiritual warfare.

900
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:49,920
It's good I.
Don't know what I don't know

901
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:51,640
what I was listening to, but I
was like, we need to do a

902
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,680
podcast on spiritual warfare.
And this is like when we were

903
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:58,120
deep in the middle of a cult.
And it's so funny to me because

904
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:03,880
starting with the Catholic one,
the the, the Mary and prayer to

905
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:05,840
the Saints, we're like, this is
probably our last one.

906
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,000
And then we do one on each
emotional docks and we're like,

907
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,320
it's probably our probably our
last.

908
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:13,880
One, we just are glutton for
punishment.

909
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I think it was even, I

910
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,440
think, no, I think it was even
worse 'cause we did the one on

911
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:21,960
authority.
We said with our next ones,

912
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,240
we're going to be the last one,
and then we did the one on the

913
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:26,120
authority and we're like, yeah,
this is probably the last one.

914
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,320
And then Eastern Orthodox,
probably the last one.

915
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,440
And then Amish.
But we at, at the point in time

916
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,640
we did the Amish, we knew we
were doing Jude too.

917
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,000
So we didn't, we didn't, we
didn't say last last.

918
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,760
But yeah, so I, I keep 'cause we
were so far ahead.

919
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,680
I'm listening to them as they
come out and I'm like, Oh no,

920
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,120
this is not going to be the last
one.

921
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,840
Man, I love it.
Yeah, there we go.

922
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,000
We should just just this should
just be a bit.

923
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,800
It just like went indefinitely.
It's like the preacher is like

924
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:57,160
I'm my final point, I'm wrapping
up, you know, and finally.

925
00:46:57,240 --> 00:46:59,360
The fake out.
Love it.

926
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,160
Well, there you go, It's almost
midnight.

927
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,640
It's not really almost midnight,
but it's close enough for me.

928
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:08,120
Yeah, that's our thing.
Thanks for listening to Take

929
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,320
Two.
Find us wherever you find

930
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,840
podcasts and on YouTube for
those who want to watch our

931
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:13,520
video cast.