Anthropology | Imago Dei & The Creation Mandate

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Zach, Michael.
How's our WordPress doing?

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It's doing great as of like two
months ago last last two months

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have been a little shaky.
Our blogs are not updating very

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much.
That's all.

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It's all right.
I'm not trying to call you out.

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I don't know that it's the
premier part of the the podcast.

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But yeah, yeah, you know,
that's, that's a good point.

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We, I was looking, I was
monitoring the monthly stats.

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We were getting a little bit of
traffic, but it wasn't, it

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wasn't like ground breaking, but
it was helping probably a little

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bit.
Is it more in place just to kind

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of like the more sites you have
and stuff?

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And stuff and stuff that that's
really the and you know, this

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is, I don't know if this does
anything or not, but I could

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like post like the transcript.
And I was just getting like a

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lot of words.
I was just getting a lot of

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content on there.
So if someone Googled anything,

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we said it was just like just so
much repetition.

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Yeah, that was kind of kind of
my thought, but thanks for

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bringing that up.
We, we were just talking a

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little bit and I do have my
hat's off to Michael.

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He is the producer behind the
scenes.

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I show up and I talk and I,
that's all I do.

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And Michael, Michael does puts
everything on YouTube and

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Spotify and all that.
So you know, 'cause I, I almost

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got credit for being a producer.
Yeah, I was.

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There was some gentleman in our
church that was listening and I

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guess he's kind of started
listening recently and clearly

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hasn't listened to all and which
is fine, you know, listen to

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what you want to.
But he was talking and we didn't

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get any comments, which is fine
on the background whether we

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should change it.
But he was commenting, he was,

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he was wondering first where we
recorded it.

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And I was like, oh, well, you
know, Zach's parents house is

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right across the street.
So we're there and we have the

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green screen.
Maybe I'll like Blink.

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Off.
The the the background for just

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a second, but anyways, and he
said, well, I noticed that, you

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know, it's always this Hobbit
Lord of the Rings thing.

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Does Zach put that in?
Does he does he like Lord of the

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Rings?
And I was like, no, Zach hates

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Lord of the Rings.
I saw a.

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Hobbit.
I would kick him, kick him in

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the face.
And then I'm I'm the one that's

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producing it.
I mean, that's hearts not hard,

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you know, you just.
Click a button.

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Click a button, put drag the
picture in.

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Adds up yeah I didn't know it
was a Hobbit house for like 4

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episodes I was like wonder what
he's doing with the background

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but then but I I I I thought it
was Lord of the Rings adjacent

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or related so I I knew I knew
there was some sort of witch

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magic witch sorcery whatever
this fanciful fairy land that

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Michael plays in let.
Me just say, let me give a shout

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out here.
So I've, I've been working

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through, you know, I, I read a
lot of both books for growth or

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for knowledge, but I also read
some recreational books in this

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genre of fantasy and stuff.
And I've been reading a lot of

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books in with Brandon Sanderson,
the Cosmere universe.

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I think he's got some good stuff
there.

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Needed a little bit of a break.
So I there was this new, it's

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new to me, but I guess it's been
out for a number of years.

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Andy Serkis Does that name ring
a bell?

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It it rings a bell, 'cause
you've talked about him.

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I I don't know anything about
this guy.

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Yeah, he was the voice.
Do we already talk about this in

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a podcast?
Surely.

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Not we.
I think we might have you.

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This is why I know this guy.
He he reads Gollum or he reads

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the.
Words or something?

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Yeah, man, I hope.
I hope we're not repeating

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banter.
It's fine it.

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Happens when you get old if.
If the audience is like me, I've

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already checked out for a little
bit, so I'll come back in when

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we're.
But the voice of Gollum but in

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the movies reads through the
books in the audio format.

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And I think it's simply the best
because it captures the best of

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the movies, because he kind of
mimics the voices of the

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characters.
And then it also is the true,

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you know, plot line and
characters like you don't have

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Farrah Mirror getting tempted by
the ring like he does in the

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movie, like.
Come on.

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Yeah, so I just finished that
out.

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So really good.
I'm working on Shepherds for

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sale right now.
Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna listen

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to that.
That's a frustrating book.

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It's like.
Yeah, tender, behind the scenes,

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real life, What's going on?
Yeah, and how people have have

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sold themselves out and and and
how I don't, I don't want to get

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too political, but how we get
accused of everything that

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actually the other side is, is
doing so.

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Man, some some good reading.
A little bit different genres.

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I was going to say, if Token
would have written like a book

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on like Abraham Lincoln,
probably would have read it.

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Give me if he gave me.
Does he?

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Did he write biographies?
I'd be more inclined to read

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that.
Well, he did write some stuff

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that wasn't in the Lord of the
Rings universe.

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There's something about AI have
it a farmer and a maybe another

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troll or something that goes out
and.

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Gets I was with you with Farmer,
so he's the troll.

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I'm like.
Yeah, his, his.

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He did a lot of Norse mythology
and looked into the language of,

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you know, Sweden and Norway and
that kind of stuff.

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And he was grieved that when the
Romans came in and really kind

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of destroyed all of the
mythologies and the heritages

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associated with the the British
Isles.

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And so he's like imagining,
like, what could those have

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been?
And so he creates these

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languages, these legends.
So if you read The Simmarillion,

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which is like the behind the
scenes, you get credit for just

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trying to read that 'cause it's
a pretty.

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It's worse than the Lord of the
Rings.

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Oh my goodness, this is
miserable.

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But and so then he writes the
Lord of the Rings in that

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universe.
And I could wax longer, but

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probably, unless you are a Lord
of the Rings, I just got to

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have.
This Red Bull, because it's

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keeping me engaged.
Then then you're probably not

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all that interested in it but
you.

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Know well when I read the Lord
of the rings, it reminds me of

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how to write me about there's a
good side of man and a bad side

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of man, you know, and, and we're
in this foundations class this,

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this time we're going to talk
about anthropology, our lesson

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#1 so let's go ahead and take it
to the next level from the

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hearts of the low country in
South Carolina.

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It's the Take Two podcast where
we take theology to the next

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level.
Anthropology When I think of

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anthropology, I think of the.
College class.

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The I I I should, I guess some
people think of that to me might

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think of like a there's a store
like a fashion store,

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anthropology after women or.
Something.

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I don't.
Know that I'm.

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Yeah, I, I.
Yeah, I know Like Ulta and I, I,

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I know the stores that my
daughters and wife go to, but

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I'm not familiar with this one.
It might not be a store.

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I, I it's out of my element too.
We're looking at the study of

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man.
And when I think of man, I think

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man is terrible, desperately
wicked, totally depraved.

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And so when I was listening, I,
I was out Sunday, but listening

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to Tim and he was highlighting
the puzzles like this is good,

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gives a good bounce.
Because I think especially if

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you're, you know, skewed towards
the reform side of things, you

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really focus on what's wrong
with the world more so than the

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positive aspects of man.
Yeah, and I, I, I don't remember

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the the terms of art and I
should have looked it up.

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But Francis Schaefer also
highlights kind of the dual

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nature, like how, you know, the
the glorious magnificence of man

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and, and how God created us
versus the marred, flawed side

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of us because of the fall.
And there's like these dual

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things that are kind of at odds
with each other.

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So this first lesson, Tim's
really highlighting the the

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first, you know, if you're.
Halfway through and you're like,

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man, they have a really high
view of me.

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It's because, yeah, 'cause
that's in the Bible.

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That's part of it.
And we'll, we'll, we'll balance

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it out next, next time.
And Tim, I think most we've said

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this many times, but he he's a
counselor.

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So he's got some really good
insight into into into mankind

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did a great week with this
lesson in our foundations

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series.
And really where he started off

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with what he started off with
was talking about man being the

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pinnacle of creation, that
there's glory to man.

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Yeah, yeah.
It's like, it's good, it's good,

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it's good, it's very good.
That was said after he created

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man.
We're the only ones that were

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created in his image.
And then we have these verses

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from Psalm 84.
And I, I missed the very first

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of his Did he read it out of the
KJV when he did it?

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No.
No, he he did not.

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But he said some translations
might say a little lower than

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the angels, but he read God.
Yeah, so KJV says, when I

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consider thy heavens, the work
of Thy fingers, the moon and the

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stars which Thou hast ordained,
what is man in comparison of

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those that Thou art mindful of
Him, The Son of Man that Thou

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visitest Him.
For Thou has made him a little

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lower than the angels, and has
crowned him with glory and

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honor.
Thou madest Him to have dominion

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over the works of the hands.
Thou has put all things under

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his feet, All sheep and oxen.
Yeah, and the beast, the field,

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the fowl, the air, the fish of
the sea, and whatsoever passes

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through the paths of the sea.
O Lord our Lord, how excellent

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is Thy name in all?
Well, that KJV visit to that's

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good.
That's how I've always, I mean

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growing up and point out
Hebrews, author of Hebrews is

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calling Septuagint says a little
lower than the angels, but most

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other translations do not say
that.

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Yeah, we have a little more
accurate.

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I think we got that maybe with
the Dead Sea Scrolls, could we

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get some of the actual original
Hebrew instead of the

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Septuagint?
And it says like verse 5 from

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the CSB says you made him a
little less than thank God and

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crowned him with glory and honor
and.

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NLTNLT is similar.
I should have done a better

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class through translations, but
really most modern.

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I think actually ESVI should, I
should pull this up 'cause I

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think ESV does not do it.
Might go KJV to something

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different.
I believe cause a lot of I think

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a philosophy of the ESV is they
try to preserve some of the

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quote UN quote majesty.
Like if you read Psalm 23,

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they're very very close.
To the KJV.

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To the KJV, yes.
Here it says heavenly beings

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instead of God.
It says gods.

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Essentially the Elohim.
The plural.

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That's the difference.
There.

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So we're bringing Heisler back
into it.

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That's great.
That's great.

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Heiser.
I know it's Heiser.

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I said it on purpose.
He's in on the joke now.

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It's great.
So setting that up White

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Michael's saying Genesis
creation account man is very

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good.
We read the psalmist talking

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about this significance that God
had in mind when he created man,

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that there there is a glory in
man and that there is a total

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different when you compare man
to the rest of creation that we

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think you mind that that's a
reality.

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Yeah, and I I just reading
through here, thinking about,

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you know, the, the words that
are here, it says you made him

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ruler over all the works of your
hands and put everything under

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his feet.
Like the there's something very

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similar said about Jesus in
Colossians.

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You know, you put everything
subject to him and I'm, I'm not,

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I'm, I'm just thinking this is
off the cuff.

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So I haven't, but I wonder if
there's been any kind of study

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between this and Jesus in the
thought that maybe, you know, we

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as mankind have this role and
then Jesus as the God man kind

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of ultimately fulfills that
because he has a human nature.

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We talked about that, you know,
two weeks ago.

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No, I, I, I think that is so
good.

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Something good to, to keep in
mind.

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So that's, that's kind of where
Tim started.

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That man has a glory, not as
glorious as God, but there it is

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a glory.
There's something significant

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and intrinsically valuable about
man, and really that's wrapped

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up that man is made in the image
of God.

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Big term.
We've mentioned it a little bit

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here, but it's one of those
terms that I think if you, yeah,

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you get on Internet Google, you
get 18 different answers and

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people are kind of trying to
wrestle with, you know what,

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what does this term mean?
Maybe we'll read the text and

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we'll talk about it a little bit
more.

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But this passage, Genesis 126
and 27.

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And then God said, let us make
man in our image after our

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likeness, and let them have
dominion over the fish of the

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sea and over the birds of the
heavens and over the livestock

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and over all the earth and over
every creeping thing that creeps

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on the earth.
So God created man in his own

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image, in the image of God.
He created him, male and female.

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He created them so so so that
you know, we can answer that

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question, what does it mean to
be made in the image of God?

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Yeah, I would say it in, if you
were to put one word on it, I

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would put the word ambassador
on, on that 'cause it carries

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this idea of representing him
and kind of carrying out his

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desires in the realm to which
you've been sent.

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And I think this kind of aligns
close.

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I've been influenced a little
bit by Heiser because he would,

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but not, I'm not totally as far
as Heiser is.

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Because I think in order to be
an ambassador, in order to

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fulfill that role, you have to
have some of these qualities

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that most people would say are
the image of God.

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I, I don't think you can
separate them.

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I think they go together, I
think to say, oh, if you have

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these qualities, your image of
God, or if you have this kind of

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role to fulfill your image of
God.

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I think they go hand in hand and
I think that's probably why

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people have a hard time like is
it So I wrote down some of these

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things.
When you read different

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systematics, you'll read is it,
you know, man having the ability

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to make ethical decision that
that he has emotions, this

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ability to communicate rational
thigh consciousness, having a

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conscience, this idea of
morality.

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What, what exactly is the image
of God?

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And then something I think that
Heiser points out that is good.

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Like you're saying, being an
ambassador, this vice Regents,

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that just by being human you
have this status 'cause that is

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your role.
But, but I think you are right

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that in that role you have this
creativity and you have emotions

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and you have a moral compass and
these kind of things.

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Yeah, and we have these
concepts.

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You see it all through our
language, like human rights, you

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know, or, you know, over the
humanity or, you know, this kind

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of built into this idea that
there is a difference between

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humans and the other creation.
Now in secular world that that

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differences try to be blurred
where, you know, we're we're

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fine killing, you know, babies
in the womb, but kill, you know,

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a endangered rhino in the womb.
Well, that's that's crazy.

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Yeah, you're crossing the line.
So not that I'm I'm for

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protecting rhinos, but I'm also
see the difference between a

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rhino and a human.
There's this guy that talks

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about, you know, we don't.
It was it's OK to, you know, you

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got roaches in your house.
You can gas your house to kill

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the roaches, but you know, to
gas humans like Hitler did that.

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That's.
Huge difference.

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And so we are, we're not saying
this pridefully, but we are the

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pinnacle from what we know of
God's physical creation.

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No, and and kind of going back
to man having the status or this

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role as ambassador, I think
that's important to really hold

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00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,200
on to because when people do
talk about things like abortion,

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00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,360
they often look at, you know,
does a fetus have rational

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00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,800
thought or do they feel pain or
can they make decisions and they

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00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,080
kind of go to that.
And so if that's what you're

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00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,800
hanging your hat on and that's
name of God that it's a sliding

302
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,680
scale, that some people have it,
you know, and some people don't,

303
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,000
that that's a problem.
So you have to.

304
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,040
You should at least acknowledge
that as this.

305
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,600
Because there's a period about 8
hours out of every 24 hours.

306
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Why I don't have any of those?
Qualities.

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00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,440
But that, that's a good point
too, where it's like, yeah, you

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00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,920
don't want to go down that road.
Yeah, that place to go.

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00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,920
So that kind of sets the stage
for what's all wrapped up in man

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being the pinnacle of creation.
Man is made in the image of God.

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00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,800
Another very important
foundational question is what is

312
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,040
man's purpose?
What what's man supposed to do

313
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,520
what?
What is man's job?

314
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,640
And I think Tim went to the
Westminster Shorter Catechism,

315
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,320
this familiar phrase, what is
the chief end of man?

316
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,720
Man's chief end is to glorify
God and to enjoy him forever.

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00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:32,600
It's great.
And I'm I'm a you know, I'm a

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00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,160
Piper guy.
I think I think he gets this

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00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,720
from CS Lewis.
I'm not sure, but Piper like

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00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,960
changes that and to buy and he's
like, man, you go if I got by

321
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,160
enjoying him forever and those
things are not disconnected.

322
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,400
Those things go together.
If you're doing those together,

323
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:49,760
everything kind of falls into
place.

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00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:54,320
Yeah, I, I can, you know, from
what we know, God is glorified

325
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,040
when we think highly of him and
enjoy him.

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00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,680
And, and it's the same way like,
you know, we could go less and

327
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,920
or greater like your kids when
they enjoy you and they, you

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00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,240
know, think highly of you when
they want to be like you, that

329
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,640
brings you glory as a parent.
And obviously you know lesser of

330
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,000
the greater same.
Same for God.

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00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,119
So that's a good thing to keep
in mind as you live your life.

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00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,960
I think another thing to keep in
mind is, you know, what were

333
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,200
Adam and Eve?
Maybe you know, what were they

334
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:24,520
specifically tasked with with
the garden?

335
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,480
That probably gives a good
insight into what their purpose

336
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,080
is.
I don't know if you want to read

337
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:34,240
Genesis 128 through 31 it.
Says And God blessed them, and

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00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,720
God said to them, Be fruitful
and multiply and fill the earth

339
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,560
and subdue it, and have dominion
over the fish of the sea and

340
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,680
over the birds of the heavens,
and over every living thing that

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00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,280
moves on the earth.
And God said, Behold, I have

342
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:52,880
given you every plant yielding
seed that is on the face of all

343
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,320
the earth, and every tree with
seed in it for its fruit.

344
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,520
You shall have them for food.
And every beast of the earth,

345
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,400
and to every bird of the
heavens, and everything that

346
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,760
creeps on the earth, everything
that has the breath of life, I

347
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,480
have given every green plant for
food.

348
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,000
And it was so.
And God saw everything that he

349
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:10,760
made, and behold, it was very
good.

350
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,080
And there was evening, and there
was morning the 6th day.

351
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Great.
And so Adam and Eve, they had a

352
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,880
job to do, fill the earth,
multiply.

353
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,520
And not only that, but they were
called to have dominion over

354
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,800
creation, to subdue it.
So it tended a good job.

355
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,760
I think talking about like he
makes things so practical.

356
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,320
He was talking about changing a
tire like we should.

357
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,360
You have the ability to learn
how to do this, care for others,

358
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,840
to kind of use different
technologies for your and God's

359
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,680
good.
Yeah, he was really hitting on

360
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,360
this idea of subduing.
He's like, I was subduing my I

361
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,160
don't think he was changing
tire, plugging a tire that had a

362
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:49,840
leak.
Yeah.

363
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:51,840
Yeah.
But he's talking about, you

364
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,400
know, I can subdue that in my
emotions and my will.

365
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,560
Like I get tired of putting air
in my tire.

366
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,160
And so how God has made us
eventually I'm going to subdue

367
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,880
that tire.
Am I subduing, you know, my

368
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,000
sleep schedule?
Am I subduing my, you know, all

369
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,320
of these these different things?
And he's really putting it in a

370
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,320
practical nature.
But I think it also has

371
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:19,200
implications for environment
because I think Christians,

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00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,960
because we kind of get aligned
to the the right side of our

373
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:27,800
political system, at least in
America, we get pegged as not

374
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,360
caring about the environment.
And I would say in some sense

375
00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:34,000
that shouldn't be true.
In some sense, we should care

376
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,920
the most about the environment
because we are living up to this

377
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,520
creation mandate.
But that doesn't mean that we

378
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:45,360
try to return the environment to
the most natural setting ever.

379
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,720
Like we can make changes to the
environment, we can subdue the

380
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,200
environment, we can make it
work.

381
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,960
But we should do that in a way
that it shows a love for God and

382
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,400
what he's given us and what he's
blessed us with, the resources

383
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,960
and a love for our fellow
people.

384
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,280
Yeah, because I shouldn't
litter, not because of Earth.

385
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,440
I shouldn't litter because of my
fellow.

386
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,280
Yeah, my my neighbor who's gonna
come along and see that trash or

387
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,360
that trash that might affect
animals that my neighbor wants

388
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:18,000
to be able to see and learn
about or maybe hunt or whatever.

389
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,080
You know what, all the things
that I think the earth was put

390
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:21,320
here.
For that, that is so good

391
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,720
because I think the devils in
the details, 'cause they don't,

392
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,600
they wouldn't want to go
totally, they don't want to get

393
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,000
rid of all AC and everything
anyway.

394
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,320
It's like everyone's drawing the
line at some point have reasons

395
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,240
behind it.
So I'm sure you know, everyone's

396
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,800
like, you know, the, you know,
people don't care about the

397
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,160
environment, but do you think
it's good just to you want to go

398
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:41,840
camp, just sit in a tent here,
You know what I mean?

399
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,360
And you've been camping, and it
was hot.

400
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:46,120
And it was hot.
And it was a lot of fun, but it

401
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,920
was fun for two days, not for
not for my life, right?

402
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,040
So a little, we'll take a couple
minutes here, a little spin off

403
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,520
because we don't have to get too
much in the weeds.

404
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,160
But there are different
theological systems that seem to

405
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,200
be popping up all the time on on
one far end of the spectrum,

406
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,840
you've got something that's
referred to as theonomy in

407
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:08,960
simple terms, mean God's law,
which I think we all would say

408
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,560
God's law is good.
Some, some of these people kind

409
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:16,800
of take it to the extreme where
they believe that the goal would

410
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,920
be really to usher in Christ's
Kingdom through politics to do

411
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,280
whatever it's, you know, they,
they want to, you know, in a way

412
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,920
you use this cultural mandate to
exercise dominion over

413
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,720
everything and kind of, you
know, be that mustard seed

414
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,960
that's growing, right.
And then on the other hand, you

415
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,840
might have someone like a
fundamentalist that says, the

416
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,000
world is so bad out there.
I'm going to keep my little

417
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,600
bubble in here and I'm not going
to engage in, in the world.

418
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,560
And, and so I think, I think
those are good lenses to think

419
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,560
through this other view I'll
mention very briefly one called

420
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,840
the Reformed 2 Kingdom view.
They would say, hey, you've got,

421
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,560
you know, the church Kingdom of
God, of God's people.

422
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,800
And that's different than God's
Kingdom of creation and natural

423
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,040
law.
And that and that cultural

424
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,040
mandate isn't for you.
That's really for Jesus when he

425
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,520
comes back to conquer and we're
just supposed to be representing

426
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,440
him in this world.
But we're not necessarily gonna

427
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,400
subdue America and take over.
And, and we can't.

428
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,600
You know, I read the Sermon on
the Mount and I don't see that

429
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:21,960
as what they would say,
essentially.

430
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,840
So, I don't know, tossed out a
lot of ideas.

431
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,160
I think there's a good, good
middle ground there.

432
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,880
Yeah.
And I would say if you kind of

433
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,760
go back to the beginning, any
government system, whether it's

434
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:39,120
a monarchy or a dictatorship or
a direct representation

435
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:44,160
democracy or a constitutional
Republic like what we have here

436
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,520
in the United States, government
really only has three responses

437
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,800
that it can take towards any
activity.

438
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,080
It can prohibit it, and that
means it's going to punish

439
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,320
people who do it.
It can promote it, which means

440
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,880
that we're going to, you know,
like, give you incentive to do

441
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:01,840
this activity or it can just
permit it.

442
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,120
Like, yeah, you want to do that.
You can.

443
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:05,000
But we're not going to get in
your way, and we're not going to

444
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,120
bless you because of it.
And I think at least in America,

445
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:13,120
you know, if you're looking at
Romans 13 and you're supposed

446
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:18,400
to, you know, be subject to your
government, we have some

447
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,360
representation.
And so we should be

448
00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:24,200
participating in our government.
And I would say, you know, I

449
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,720
said this recently on a Facebook
post that my ultimate hope is

450
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,280
not in government, but
government is one of the tools

451
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:34,080
that God has ordained to help
bring order to our.

452
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,160
So it's, I, I think there's a
balance where we don't go and we

453
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:43,360
say, I am trusting in the
American government or wherever

454
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:45,040
you're at, the British
government, the German

455
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,520
government to make everything
right.

456
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,400
And without the government being
right, we are not going to be

457
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,720
able to function.
But on the same hand, I, I

458
00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:00,920
should be working to make
government right as best as I

459
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,480
can because that's good.
That saves lives.

460
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,520
You know, again, in Romans 13,
government has been ordained to,

461
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:12,560
you know, bless the people who
do good and to punish the people

462
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,000
who do evil.
If we don't have a good

463
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,120
definition of what good and evil
is, then that gets that that's a

464
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:23,040
problem.
So I, I would say that that it's

465
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,320
not this easy extremism, one
side or the other.

466
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,880
You can't just throw in the
towel and say I'll be good in my

467
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,120
church, but I'm not going to
participate in, you know, my

468
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:35,360
civic duties.
I also don't think you can be

469
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:39,560
like, we have to have this
candidate or it's all over

470
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,880
because ultimately God is in
control.

471
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,000
Jesus is going to come back.
You know, the best form of

472
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,880
government for a sinful people
is a benevolent dictator.

473
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,440
I say that being an American who
wants all the freedom.

474
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,560
A benevolent dictator is what we
really need.

475
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,160
We need someone who says, you
know, this is how things are

476
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,720
going to be and this is right.
And there may be some pain in

477
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,640
it, but that's how it's going to
be.

478
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,840
But no human can be a good
dictator because that power

479
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,040
corrupts.
And yeah, no, no mere human.

480
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:14,200
No, that's right.
Yeah.

481
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:14,840
Yeah.
So.

482
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,440
So at one point in time we will
have the ultimate benevolent,

483
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,440
the Omni benevolent dictator
come back and set things to

484
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,600
right.
So that's a good perspective and

485
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,920
I think so much is on in your
context.

486
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,000
It's like things look a lot
different in America, even if

487
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:33,720
the tide's shifting.
Then if you're in a Christian in

488
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,320
Pakistan, you probably have a
little bit different view of

489
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,600
what your role is to redeem the
culture and exercise dominion in

490
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,520
your environment.
I think we are called, you know,

491
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,920
there's responsibility with your
family, civic duty, this kind of

492
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,840
thing.
So that I think that is a good

493
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,520
middle ground.
I'm trying to think of, you

494
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,840
know, Bible characters.
I know we can't apply everything

495
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,320
from the Old Testament, but you
think of, you know, Daniel and

496
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,760
Babylon or something like that.
He's pretty involved in the

497
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,800
government.
He didn't, I don't think he

498
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,200
changed Babylon in the fact that
they were all worshipping

499
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,680
Yahweh, but he was involved.
You know, Jeremiah tells, you

500
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,920
know, you're going to exile and
you should care about the

501
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,440
welfare of the city.
You should plant vineyards,

502
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,000
build houses, be connected,
knowing that this government's

503
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,400
not going to say, hey, it's the
Sabbath let's you know.

504
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,320
And so I think there is some
give and take depending on the

505
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,200
context.
We're not called to just throw

506
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,800
in the towel.
But maybe in certain contexts

507
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,680
you're not going to totally
redeem culture.

508
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,400
You just do your responsibility.
Even been going through Ezra

509
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,840
Nehemiah, really my take away
from from that Ezra Nehemiah,

510
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,240
they've been called to do great
things, but really doesn't turn

511
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,440
out so great.
No king actually comes, but they

512
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,360
did the right thing and so
things might not turn out how

513
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:44,760
you want to, but it doesn't mean
you can be.

514
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,560
Absent and I think that Daniel
example is really good and we in

515
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,920
the banter time we talked about
this book shepherds for sale and

516
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,040
there's been a recent
evangelical leader who used the

517
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:01,280
the Daniel example to kind of
excuse Christians who, hey,

518
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,360
they're part of this
corporation, they're part of

519
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:07,800
this group and Daniel was part
of a bad government.

520
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,400
But we saw Daniel at least we we
don't really know where Daniel

521
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,560
was when the the golden statue
was raised up, but we see the

522
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,600
three Hebrew children didn't bow
down like they stood up.

523
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,320
We see Daniel not following this
rule to not pray to God.

524
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,600
So I think he's a great example
of, hey, I can be part of

525
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,680
potentially an evil government
and do my part, but there are

526
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,640
certain lines I'm not going to
cross and I'm not going to

527
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,360
advance or, you know, promote or
give those things a pass.

528
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:40,880
I'm going to stand up and be
different.

529
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,480
And, you know, maybe that would
have God miraculous saved them.

530
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,360
But, you know, the, you know,
Hananiah, Misha and Nazariah

531
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:49,760
said, you know, God has the
power to save us, but even if he

532
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,240
doesn't, we're not bound down to
you, Nebuchadnezzar.

533
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,640
And I think it's that good
middle ground where we don't

534
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,640
have to give things a pass, but
we can still be participating in

535
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,920
a system that we may think is
less than perfect.

536
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,160
I, I, I think those are really
good thoughts and the kind of

537
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,040
rounded out, you know, we think
of man has a glory, God set man

538
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:11,640
a pinnacle creation image of
God.

539
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,040
We've got a role because of that
and it's kind of calling us the

540
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,960
take stock of our lives, like
where you interface with

541
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,720
different relationships, jobs,
whatever that you do have a job

542
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,520
to do.
It's not your job to save

543
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,400
people.
You can't do that, but you can

544
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,680
represent Christ well and leave
it in His hands.

545
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,160
You know what happens with the
results, whether you know it

546
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,000
works out how you would want it
or not, you can control you.

547
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,120
And that, that's an important
take away.

548
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,920
Yep.
You do 100% of the things that

549
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,680
you're called to do and then you
don't worry about the things

550
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,200
that God is doing.
Let God take care of the things

551
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:44,760
he's doing.
You be faithful to what you've

552
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,560
been called to That's.
Great anthropology lesson #1

553
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,560
any, any parting words, Michael?
Go, subdue, go subdue, subdue,

554
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,760
subdue the things in your life.
And I think Tim gave a lot of

555
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,680
practical examples.
Well, that's our take.

556
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:01,600
Thanks for listening to Take
Two.

557
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,960
Find us wherever you find
podcasts and on YouTube for

558
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:06,640
those who want to watch our
video cast.