Cults | Roman Catholicism: Mary and Prayer to the Saints

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Mary.
Prayer.

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Did You Know?
Mary, did you know that there'd

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be Marian doctrines?
And.

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Praying.
We should rewrite Mary, Did you

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know to be like, hey, did you
know that they were going to

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call you the Mother of God?
Wow, there is a parody song of

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Catholic doctrine and Mary.
Did you know somewhere?

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Like there's something you're
just guessing, or you've heard

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it.
No, no, I'm, I'm saying there's

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no, I'm I'm just, I'm saying
there should be 1.

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Like there's some, there's
there's something there.

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Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah,
that's, yeah.

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That, that'll play.
Yeah.

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So this is this may be well we
were requested, we haven't even

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talked about this.
We were requested to do another

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episode in the series via
comment in the YouTube section.

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So we can talk about that
offline.

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So we have to talk about.
That what's the What was it for?

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Well, that's why it's not really
a cult.

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It was feminism.
Oh.

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I'm not a feminism.
I'm fascinated by the history of

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feminism in the fact that not
even like first wave, second

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wave, 3rd wave, all this stuff,
but how it does coincide with

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like World War 2 and that's like
the beginning of the end of

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America.
I don't I don't know how much

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conspiracy theory, but it is
like crazy.

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We're all like, it seems like
that was a downward trajectory

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in some fashion, even though in
many other ways it's been very

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positive.
It's just it's fascinating to me

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and it's I forgot this guy's
name on there, but he's bringing

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up.
I just need to get acquainted

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with a good source.
Like I need to know this stuff

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more versus like, just
spitballing, but I would have

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loved to talk.
Well, I guess we could talk

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about feminism without talking
about the history.

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Of it, he mentioned a book that
I haven't read.

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So sorry we are we're really
taking a sidestep from the the

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Mary Pot my podcast.
But I was listening to Dusty

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Slay comedian.
He has his own podcast and he

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said that he's been watching
these old westerns and these old

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movies from the like the 50s and
60s.

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He's like the treatment of women
is pretty stark and like he's

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like, I remember one of them
where it says like when I get in

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the kitchen, he's like, now I
wonder if that is really how it

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was back in the 50s and 60s or
if that's Hollywood's portrayal

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because they want to make it
seem bad to kind of foster this

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feminist move.
Like that's, you know, to kind

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of push.
But you know, Dusty, you

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wouldn't necessarily know He's a
believer from his stand up

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comedy.
Not that he's dirty or anything

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like that, but he's like, he's
like, I'm there to let everyone

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have a good time.
I'll talk to you about Jesus on

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my podcast.
But he said, you know, people

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always show, you know, this
Ephesians, you know, why submit

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to your husbands?
And they don't read the very

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next verses.
Like basically he's like, my

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translation is husbands, treat
your wives as a queen.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
There you go.

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But so.
We didn't forget.

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We did not forget about the
comment.

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That is good.
Yeah.

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We haven't forgotten about that.
So we, so this may, you know,

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there may be another we, we need
to decide whether this is the

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last one of this year.
I need to find a.

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Is this book an audio book that
he recommended?

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I don't know.
We'll have to go back and look

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and see, yeah.
I'll I'll run through that and

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look at some looks that that
would be I would love to do more

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on that because you know, these
women, right, taking taking over

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the world, but.
Pending anything, you know, if

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we get a whole lot of comments
from some Roman Catholics, maybe

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we, but this is our last planned
episode on Roman so.

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To kind of tie it together,
Mary, the first feminist, the

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first feminist.
I'm just kidding.

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So we are talking about cults
and these beliefs that we're

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talking about today I don't
think would rise necessarily to

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the label of cult.
And we're using cult in the

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academic sense.
We've covered that throughout

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that.
We're not using it in the

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pejorative or you know, the like
a, you know, new age type thing.

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We're using it in the the
academic sense of the word.

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But I thought if we're going to
look at Roman Catholicism's view

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on salvation, the gospel, and
we're going to look at their

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view on authority, we should go
ahead and just touch the kind of

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the major other difference we
have with them as Protestants.

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And that falls into two
categories, their high esteemed

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status of Mary, and they're
praying to the Saints.

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So this episode covers both of
those.

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So anything you want to say
before we take it to the next

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level?
Let's go ahead and take it to

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the next level.
Let's fire up that twang music.

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From the hearts of the Low
Country in South Carolina.

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It's the Take Two podcast where
we take theology to the next

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level.
All right, so Mary and prayer to

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the Saints and we would all say
Mary holds a blessed position.

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And why would we all say that if
we?

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Go back to last episode, Final
Authority for Protestant.

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So no, no, and I hate this
because it's not not a low view

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of Mary.
Right, right.

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We have a high view of Mary.
Yeah, yeah.

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In fact, we did a, we, we had
like some awkward spacing

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between our Sunday school
classes and it happened to be

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around Christmas time and Joel
was like, what can we do 3 or 4

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weeks?
Like well, why don't we like

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each take a lesson, talk about
Christmas.

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I was like, what do I want to
do?

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I didn't want to do the Michael
Ruins Christmas thing like where

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I kind of re talk about the end
and stuff because I've done that

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a lot.
And I was like, well, I just

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want to do it on the humble
faithfulness of Mary and Joseph

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and, and you know, kind of what
they went through and all of

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this.
So we we do esteem Mary as being

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in a 'cause.
I don't want it to seem like

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we're like trashing on Mary.
An honored position, but we

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don't think we think that that
pendulum has swung way too far

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in the Roman Catholic Church.
Yes.

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And I, and I think what we'll
see is many of the claims really

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go along with our last episode
where they go beyond scripture

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and steeped in some tradition.
So let's kick it off.

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Yeah, so you might hear someone.
These are just things I've heard

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because I get, you know, I'm a
believer.

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So I think the algorithms knows
that I like to watch things on

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faith and doctrine.
And so I'll get some videos

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clearly made for a Roman
Catholic, then I'll get some

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that are clearly made for a
Protestant who's debunking.

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But you know, 'cause the, the
algorithm, it doesn't know

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doctrine, it's just trying to.
That's right.

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But one of them was talking
about Mary as an ark, the New

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Testament ark.
And so the the argument went

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that the ark carried the
presence of God.

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OK, Mary carries the fullness of
God in her womb, and therefore

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quite clearly Mary is the new
ark of the new covenant.

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But this one actually had a a
Protestant response and I

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thought he did a good job.
And so if you clarify this, the

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ark was a physical object.
Checks out.

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Yeah, God dwelt in a in a
physical way in that object, but

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it's Christ, not Mary who is the
analog of the Old Testament ark,

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since the fullness of deity
dwells in him, Colossians 29,

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not in Mary.
Therefore the ark pointed to

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Christ, not to Mary, because you
know, it's in the ark was the

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mercy seat.
That's where the sacrifice is

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there.
And so Christ is that ark.

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He is the say the word for me.
I'm always bad at.

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Propitiation.
There we go.

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If you fix an analogy, what
would you say?

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That Christ is the Ark.
Well, I mean, yeah, where?

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Where does Mary?
Fall.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you fix the analogy, then

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Mary would might be the
Levitical priest carrying the

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ark.
I can get behind that.

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And they're in a, they're in a
blessed position.

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Not everyone could carry the ark
around there.

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There was, they were set apart
and they had this exalted place

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in order to carry the ark.
But that would be more of where

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she would she would be.
I I like that a lot, 'cause Mary

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important a vehicle, a means by
which Christ entered the world.

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So you don't that's good.
That's good to clarify 'cause

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you might hear that that that's
great.

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Yeah.
So that, so just thinking

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through that.
Alright, so perpetual virginity.

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Great.
So Catholicism.

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Rome is gonna teach that Mary
was a virgin before Christ's

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birth.
We'd affirm that during Christ's

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birth.
We'd affirm that after Christ's

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birth.
This is where we have definitive

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separation.
Right, right.

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So scriptural issues.
Matthew 125.

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Joseph's kept her a virgin until
she gave birth to a son the

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like.
The natural reason is like ever

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that they had normal sexual
relationships.

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Yes, that's at face value what
you would would anticipate on a

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natural reading.
We read other places Jesus had

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brothers.
Nothing in scripture mentions a

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whole lot about perpetual
anything but perpetual

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virginity.
It doesn't say and the Spirit

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came upon her and Jude was
conceived and not born, and

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James was conceived, and I think
it even says somewhere where

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Jesus had a sister.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, in

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there.
And then, you know, we see this

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like many doctrines kind of gets
more, gets its stamp on there

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many, many years later.
Oh, let's say there's no slam

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dunk biblical argument.
Hey, this verse says perpetual

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that virginity existed.
Right.

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And well, yeah, I would say
there's nothing that hints to

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that even even hints.
Yeah, yeah.

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And you had to refer to our last
Thursday episode.

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We're using this as our final
authority.

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So we and so we would, we would
say that, you know, we're going

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to take this over what some
church father might say in 400.

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I love it.
All right, another issue around

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Mary is the sinlessness of Mary,
AKA the Immaculate Conception.

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Question real quick, would they
would Catholics, and I don't

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know if we talked about this
later, Catholics would say Jesus

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had brothers and sisters.
That's like cousins.

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That's like a term for like not
or a or would they say it is

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brother's just not with Mary
like it's Joseph and.

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I think you would hear different
things from different Catholics.

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So if you're a Roman Catholic
and you got a thought on this,

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you're listening, Tell us how
you understand Jude and James to

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be 'cause I think I have heard
the cousin thing, and I think

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I've also heard that no, though
they were just other Immaculate

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conceal.
But maybe I'm off on that.

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Yeah, Yeah.
So you can clarify that on

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there, all right, Sinlessness of
Mary, AKA the Immaculate

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Conception.
I you know, growing up in the

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middle of rural Arkansas, I just
thought Immaculate Conception

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was talking about Jesus.
I growing up as a kid, same

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thing.
It's actually Mary was conceived

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without original sin, which
might like blow your mind a

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little bit.
Like when you're like wow.

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Also, what blows my mind is that
this was defined dogmatically in

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1854.
Right, very early, Very early.

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At Abraham Lincoln, yeah, It's
like, yeah, very early.

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And also on top of that, she
remained sinless.

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Not just she was immaculately
conceived, but that sinlessness

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remained.
So even we were looking at, we

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just doing a little bit of study
on what some of the Church

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fathers, Thomas Aquinas believed
that she was conceived and had

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original sin, but then after her
conception, she was basically

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cleansed from that sin and then
kept from sin from that point

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on.
I think.

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So he wants to attribute at
least original sin to her, but

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then that this Holy Spirit kept
it off.

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What's what's what's the point?
Is it like, would it be better

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if like Mary's mother was
immaculately conceived and you

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00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,080
just like keep you keep it more?
You just had a lot because

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00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,480
because I think the argument is
like she had to be sinless.

228
00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,080
In order for the Holy Spirit to
work or Yeah, because.

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00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:00,000
Which doesn't.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

230
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:05,240
It doesn't make sense.
But if Mary, I I think you do

231
00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,680
have an argument.
It's a it's a factum.

232
00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:15,920
What there's a Latin phrase for
just continue on the the the the

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00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,440
logic there.
Sorry, but yeah.

234
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,800
So Mary's mother should have to
have been sinless, but she's

235
00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:25,640
going to be sinless.
And yeah, at some.

236
00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:27,800
Yeah.
So there has to there has to be

237
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,000
a breakdown in that does.
Scripture talk about people

238
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,920
being, you know, fundamentally
good or bad.

239
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,320
Let's look at some of these.
So some of the these are just

240
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,760
proof texts so obviously you
want to read the full context.

241
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,840
But Mark 10/18 says why Jesus
being asked question why do you

242
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,840
call me good?
Only God is good.

243
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:52,720
Well Jesus Mary isn't God.
Romans 323 all have sinned kind

244
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,240
of the famous Roman Rd. passage.
Romans 310 none is righteous, no

245
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,720
not one.
Romans 623 The wages of sin is

246
00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,360
death, but the free gifts of
Christ is eternal life through

247
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,280
Jesus Christ our Lord.
So Paul's making some universal

248
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,720
claims here.
Now, we are explicitly we know

249
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,080
that Jesus Christ was sinless
and accepted from this, but

250
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,080
there's nothing in Scripture
that would hint that Mary is

251
00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,520
also accepted from these
universal claims.

252
00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:19,840
And that that's good.
And if you want to kind of

253
00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,280
expand this argument a little
bit more in the Luke, Mary

254
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,000
speaking herself says, my spirit
rejoices in God, my Savior.

255
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,240
The important thing there is
she's appealing to a savior,

256
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,960
implying that she needs saving.
A Savior is needed by by

257
00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,360
sinners.
That there's really no biblical

258
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,080
statement whatsoever that Mary
was without sin.

259
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,920
Yeah, and we have some a quote
here from Origin.

260
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,200
He was basically doing a homily,
a commentary on Luke and we

261
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,600
could dive into it, but
basically it's talking about,

262
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:56,200
you know, her having some doubt
and he's making the point it

263
00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,480
through this quote that if Mary
or just make the point if Mary

264
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,400
had doubt, then she wouldn't
have been sinless.

265
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,200
That's true in here because of
her.

266
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,120
You know this was talking about
the passage where a sword will

267
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,720
Pierce your own soul as well.
Because when we look at early

268
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,840
Catholicism, like really early,
Mary is honored as blessed and

269
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,960
faithful.
Fine with that, not elevated in

270
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:28,240
this like extra special way over
like any other ordinary human.

271
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,800
Yeah, we have a timeline in here
of thoughts like you were

272
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,040
saying, New Testament, what we
see in Scripture.

273
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:39,200
She's blessed among women, she's
present in the Gospel, but she's

274
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:40,680
not central.
Yeah, that's.

275
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,080
She even shows up one time and
they're like, hey, your mother

276
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,080
and brothers out there and Jesus
says my family are these are my

277
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:49,560
brothers and my sisters right
here.

278
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,840
So in the New Testament, she's
honored, but and there's no

279
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,720
suggestion of her being sinless
or a perpetual virgin.

280
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:02,800
Moving on to 100 to 200.
So 2nd century and 3rd century

281
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,760
had these figures.
Early church fathers, Ignatius

282
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,000
of Antioch, Justin Martyr,
Irenaeus of lions.

283
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:14,600
Virgin birth is emphasized here.
And we don't start seeing these

284
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,280
comparisons between Mary and
Eve.

285
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,280
I think there are some
comparisons there.

286
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,480
We looked at one quote that
seemed to kind of overdo it.

287
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:28,160
Like Eve tied the Gordian knot
of sin and Mary loosed it like,

288
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:32,360
well, no, Christ loosed that
knot through his life, death and

289
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:33,960
resurrection.
Mary didn't do that.

290
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,120
Now, did Mary play a physical
role in bringing it about?

291
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:43,840
Yeah, Early 3rd Century Tension
200 and 250 Key figure

292
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:48,840
Tertullian is one of the major
voices to explicitly reject

293
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,080
perpetual virginity from his
work on the flesh of Christ.

294
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,160
Heretic.
Suppose that Mary did not give

295
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,920
birth, and that her body was not
truly a human one.

296
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,280
But we know that she was a
virgin when she conceived Christ

297
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,120
and that she afterwards married
and bore children.

298
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,600
And so you know this is from his
broader argument that was

299
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,720
consistent position of Jesus's
brothers that are literal

300
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,960
brothers, so.
Yeah, that's interesting.

301
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,280
A lot of the argument seems like
it was kind of gnostic, almost

302
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,240
saying like she wasn't truly
human.

303
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,320
Oh, that's good.
He also criticized Mary a little

304
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,680
bit.
Yeah, yeah, His mother and

305
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,840
brother and stood without.
He repudiated them kind of

306
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,760
taught when when he shows up and
they're they're like, hey, your

307
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,200
family's here to get, you know,
like you need to kind of exit

308
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,800
left like 'cause this is where
he's really kind of gone public

309
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,320
with his ministry and he's
saying things that are not the

310
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,840
normal Jewish things to say And
he's and he's causing a a stir.

311
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:54,720
So so summary of this stage is
you know, some elevate Mary,

312
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,080
others like to Turley and treat
her more plainly, but there's no

313
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:02,400
universal consensus yet.
Pre Nicene development 200 to

314
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,079
300 figures origin.
We already talked about him and

315
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:11,400
his specific quote 1st century
shift 300 and 400.

316
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,000
So we do start to see a little
bit of a change.

317
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:19,400
Athanasius wrote a great creed
Ephraim of Syrian major

318
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,160
development, perpetual virginity
begins to gain some dominance

319
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,160
strongly to figure defended by
some later figures like Jerome,

320
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:34,600
A council of ephesus and 431.
Mary is affirmed as the mother

321
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,320
of God.
Theo telcos.

322
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,800
You do you like that phrase?
You know, I, I, I don't think

323
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,120
it's the worst thing in the
world.

324
00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:47,000
And honestly, I think, you know,
many Presbyterians and Anglicans

325
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,880
and these people are, it's fine.
I think it's good to clarify

326
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,760
terms and that kind of thing.
Mother of Jesus?

327
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,680
Sure.
Yeah.

328
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,800
I don't.
The mother of God just.

329
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,280
It sounds like there's something
that predated God in.

330
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:05,520
Marriott, obviously, is not
she's.

331
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:06,600
Not eternal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

332
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:10,080
She's, she's a, she's not a
necessary eternal being.

333
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:15,960
She's a fleshly contingent being
with a sinful mom and dad.

334
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:17,040
That's true.
That is true.

335
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,680
During the medieval period we
start seeing the modern dogma,

336
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,840
we see increasing devotion,
theological expansion, we see

337
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,160
some formalizations in the
Immaculate Conception of 1854,

338
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,840
which we already reference, and
the Assumption of Mary in 1950.

339
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:37,280
So some really late.
Yeah, yeah, that, that's always,

340
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,520
it's always interesting to see
what gets like play in the

341
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,680
1800s, nineteen hundreds, this
kind of thing.

342
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,320
Like we're about to fight a
civil war and they're over here.

343
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,280
And, and, and basically the
Assumption of Mary says that

344
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,880
Mary was taken body and soul
into heaven at the end of her

345
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,120
earthly life.
You know, did not.

346
00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,040
Die Enoch.
Yeah.

347
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,240
Elijah.
Mary.

348
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,160
It doesn't definitively.
I think there's disagreement on

349
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,720
whether Mary died first or not,
but she was taken up bodily.

350
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:11,240
So unique.
Obviously this is not in

351
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,120
Scripture, but in case you're
like wondering, you know what's

352
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:15,240
going on.
And that's the Assumption of

353
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:16,160
Mary all.
Right.

354
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,400
So we don't have a lot to say
other than I, I guess we would

355
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:29,080
say we take Mary as a good
version, a good representative

356
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:34,560
of the female race, but still
sinful, had normal relations

357
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:40,120
with Joseph and conceived
normally kids after that and

358
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:44,120
lived a life and she had doubts
and fears and just like everyone

359
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:46,880
else and needed a savior.
And we really don't have a lot

360
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,400
to say because it's not like
there's text look at and argue,

361
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:52,480
you know what I'm saying?
Like it's not.

362
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,760
There's not a lot to work with.
You're really relying on

363
00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:01,920
tradition pretty heavily.
Yeah, and there was there was a

364
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,200
passage and I and I just
remembered I think Paul refers

365
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,920
to Mary, but he doesn't prefer
to her by name, just calls her

366
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:15,200
the mother of, of Jesus and so.
You might go, oh, well, if she

367
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:20,400
was had this high exalted spot,
you would think Paul might name

368
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:21,600
her by name.
So yeah.

369
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,680
That that's especially, yeah,
you would think in that, yeah,

370
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:29,440
that's right, transition.
Transition to Part 2 prayer to

371
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,840
the Saints because it kind of
goes along with Mary because you

372
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:37,520
do have the famous football pass
when you really need to make a

373
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,320
lot of yards at the end of the
game called the Hail Mary.

374
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,880
There you go.
But it's named after this idea

375
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:51,320
that we're going to, you know,
pray to Mary, worship Mary, the

376
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:52,320
Ave.
Maria.

377
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:53,680
I remember I think I've
mentioned this.

378
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,080
Before when I.
Was in college, it was in choir.

379
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:58,320
We were singing an Ave.
Maria.

380
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,000
Most people think in Ave.
Maria is just that one song we

381
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,680
hear at Christmas all the time.
But in Ave.

382
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:10,960
Maria was just a, a, a musical
set to those words.

383
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,320
So there's different musical
versions of Ave.

384
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,880
Maria.
We are singing one of those and,

385
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,000
you know, it's it's good old,
you know, Mozart or, you know,

386
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,880
that type of music that we're
singing.

387
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,320
And I remember the choir
director like, OK, because you

388
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,800
always want people to feel the
emotion.

389
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,000
He's like, you got to really
think about the words you're

390
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,040
saying here.
And I was like, no, this good

391
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,720
Protestant does not need to
think about the words that he's

392
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:36,680
saying.
That's funny.

393
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,240
He's just making a joyful noise
to the Lord and you know,

394
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,040
bearing under having a say these
words that really I think are

395
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,400
blasphemous because you're
you're basically praising Mary

396
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:49,800
on on par.
But anyways.

397
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,200
And I I what I what I might do
if we well, we probably won't

398
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,560
record another one on this, but
I would be curious looking back

399
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,360
at even Mary, mother of God, I
was trying to look it up.

400
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:04,200
I couldn't find it, but I bet, I
bet I in that council.

401
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,440
That's around the time of
Calcidon.

402
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,280
All these other things.
I bet it was honestly not to

403
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,960
elevate Mary, but to affirm the
person of Christ, like protect

404
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,720
against like Nestorianism or
something like it was.

405
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,800
It's not even about Mary.
It's about that Jesus that you

406
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:20,800
know.
I think that's.

407
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,520
Probably I was like the timing
of it seems like it's around.

408
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,120
That's a good insight.
Yeah, where that's, you know,

409
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,480
anyway where some people would
be like it's I think Mary,

410
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,440
mother of Jesus is better.
But I think later Gnosticism,

411
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:33,720
yeah.
So anyway, just wanted to throw

412
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,240
that in there because we
transitioned to praying for the

413
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,000
Saints.
All right, so our we exist to

414
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:47,480
glorify Christ by bringing
sinners to Christ likeness and

415
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,600
fill in the blank here, Saints.
And Saints, Oh.

416
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,360
Wait a minute, sinners to
Christ, and Saints to Christ,

417
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:55,720
like this among all nations,
right among all?

418
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,760
Nations, yeah.
Forgot about that so sorry I

419
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,440
messed up our own thing that we
say all the time, but we we say

420
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,560
over and over again, sinners to
Christ, Saints to Christ's

421
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,440
likeness, interlocal because we
don't believe that there is this

422
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,560
higher category of Christians.
Oh yeah, Saints are special.

423
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,480
That's right, Saints are
special.

424
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,680
So Scripture does not teach an
ontological tear of Christians

425
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,920
heavenly believers, or it does
not teach heavenly believers who

426
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,360
function as spiritual
intermediaries.

427
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,040
Yeah, Paul talks.
He writes to the Saints in

428
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:28,760
Corinth.
He's all the Saints and he's not

429
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,320
singling out people, right?
Right.

430
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:37,080
So, but you know, there are a
lot of good examples of people

431
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:42,120
praying to the dead and it's
just a it's a common, it's, it's

432
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:44,960
a positive thing, right?
Yeah, so, so this is good 'cause

433
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,680
if you're looking at Scripture
to affirm, yeah, let's start

434
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,240
looking at, let's look at the
let's look at First Samuel 28.

435
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,000
Let's dive right in.
Yeah, so Samuel's dead.

436
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:03,680
And Saul is, he's concerned.
He's worried and so he seeks out

437
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,480
a medium and it, I think from
the passage, the medium maybe

438
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,120
was a con or something.
I don't know.

439
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:12,560
Because she's surprised when
when Samuel comes back.

440
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:17,120
Not the time for it, but I
should Got a medium Northwich

441
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:19,480
shirt, got a got a small not
good anyway back.

442
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,400
It's all not the right kind of
medium.

443
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the result of this, you can

444
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:25,960
go back and read it.
First Samuel 28.

445
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,440
God condemns the act.
Yeah.

446
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:28,480
It's not good, not.
Good.

447
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,080
No, no, no.
It's associated with rebellion.

448
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,680
It's not portrayed positively.
And it's from there that Samuel

449
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:41,160
from the dead, says Saul.
Tomorrow you and your sons are

450
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,040
going to lose.
Your life shall die.

451
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:45,880
It's very bad.
So if you're looking at for any

452
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,320
shred of evidence, it's like
man, this has to you have to

453
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,960
weigh this and everything.
Furthermore, you look at the Old

454
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,200
Testament at large, Deuteronomy
and Leviticus verse, Chronicles,

455
00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:01,240
Second Kings, Isaiah.
There's a lot to to set to be

456
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,600
said about things of of this
nature, talking to those who

457
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,520
have passed from this earthly
temporal life, and none of them

458
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,680
are positive.
Yeah, we, we, we can't read all

459
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:14,840
these, but there was a long
list.

460
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,680
Maybe we can put them in some
show notes or something, but

461
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,840
let's just read 1 Deuteronomy 18
nine through 14.

462
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,480
Obviously there's some editing
here.

463
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,480
Says there shall not be found
among you anyone who and then

464
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,680
we're going to live long less
we're going to skip ahead

465
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,960
practices definition tells
fortune interprets omens or a

466
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,040
sorcerer or a charmer or a
medium or a necromancer or one

467
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:43,040
who inquires of the dead.
For whoever does these things is

468
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:46,080
an abomination to the.
Lord and you see a lot of the

469
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,040
same thing in the Leviticus.
I'll read this one in First

470
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,040
Corinthians 10 it says, so Saul
died for his breach of faith and

471
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,280
also for consulting a medium.
He did not seek guidance from

472
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,680
the Lord.
So it's saying by consulting a

473
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,240
medium he was going against
Yahweh.

474
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:09,640
We could go on and on and on.
And where again, Isaiah is kind

475
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,720
of the same thing.
You're talking about mediums.

476
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,040
You're not going to God.
It's like, it's like not yeah,

477
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,240
you're it's a good stepping
stone.

478
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,200
To God, I think you said First
Corinthians and I was like,

479
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,960
sorry, I did not.
I was like wigged out like we

480
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,040
have a New Testament passage.
I've never heard this.

481
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:25,720
I was looking for it.
First Chronicles.

482
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,360
What he meant say, yeah, yeah,
sorry, sorry.

483
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:28,160
Go ahead.
Go.

484
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:29,720
You were I.
Didn't know that was it.

485
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:30,240
OK.
All right.

486
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,160
All right.
So, yeah, So the clear,

487
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,800
consistent, consistent teaching
across all these passages,

488
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,440
Isaiah, Kings, First Chronicles,
First Samuel, Leviticus,

489
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,120
Deuteronomy is this.
We're to summarize this.

490
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:45,880
The new, the Old Testament
teaches do not inquire, the

491
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,560
dead, do not seek mediums, do
not consult spiritists, do not

492
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,600
attempt communication with
departed spirits.

493
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,920
Such acts are defiling,
abominable, worthy of severe

494
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,920
judgement, evidence of covenant
unfaithfulness.

495
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,640
So if you talk to a Catholic, in
fairness, right, they're going

496
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,760
to say, well, we're not using a
medium.

497
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,760
The Saints are alive in Christ,
and we're not asking for

498
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,680
divination, but for
intercession.

499
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,080
So I can get behind.
Since you're alive in Christ,

500
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:13,760
great.
When you're saying I'm asking

501
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,440
for intercession, then you start
getting a little bit more

502
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,040
wobbly.
Wobbly here.

503
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:20,520
Yeah.
And I've talked to one of them

504
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,480
and I've talked to one of them,
one of them.

505
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:27,480
I've talked and and basically
the response was, well, some

506
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,720
people might have better pull
with God and God is busy.

507
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,800
I'm like your view of God.
Theology proper is all.

508
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,920
Theology proper is because God
has no problem knowing all the

509
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,760
prayers.
He knows what you're going to

510
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,520
pray three weeks from now, much
less than being able to handle

511
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,920
what's coming in currently.
So God does not need assistance

512
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,560
in, you know, pecking order of
your request and stuff being

513
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,960
made known to him.
Yeah, all right.

514
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:02,760
And I just Section 4, God is
theologically unnecessary.

515
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,800
So just to recap the last part,
Isaiah 819 explicitly says

516
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,800
should they inquire of the dead
on behalf of the living?

517
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,040
This question alone is
rhetorically forceful.

518
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,920
So even if intentions differ
than what the mediums were, the

519
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:22,520
practice of addressing the dead
is never encouraged in

520
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,280
Scripture.
And like we said, it's

521
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:26,920
unnecessary.
God is omniscient.

522
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,920
He's omnipresent.
He's omnipotent.

523
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,200
He does not need assistance
managing prayer traffic now.

524
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,400
That that's really, really good.
Let's go to the intercessory

525
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,440
part, the mediation.
First Timothy 2 says there's one

526
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,360
mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus.

527
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,840
So you don't need to go through,
you know, a St. who has been,

528
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,960
who has died to access God.
That access is direct through

529
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,840
Christ.
Hebrew 7 Christ always lives to

530
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,400
make intercession.
Romans 8, The Spirit intercedes,

531
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,160
the sun intercedes, the Trinity
is already interceding.

532
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,800
So there's not this gap that you
need to pray to the dead to help

533
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,560
you intercede all.
Right.

534
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,800
But what if I said, hey, Zach,
man, a lot of things going on.

535
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:14,960
Will you pray for my family
right now?

536
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,560
Man, I, I, I think this is, this
is on its face one of the better

537
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,640
arguments 'cause you're like,
OK, I, I get that.

538
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,280
But there is distinction between
asking a friend or, you know,

539
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,600
trying to talk to the dead.
Your friend's alive.

540
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,000
You're speaking to them
directly.

541
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,880
You know who you're talking to.
And likely, you know, you're

542
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,120
praying, praying together to
God, you know.

543
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,080
Yeah, and I think there is.
Well, we're told to bear one

544
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,200
another's burdens.
That's clear how.

545
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,360
Could I bear my mother's burdens
right now?

546
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,440
She's passed.
She doesn't have any burdens.

547
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:54,160
And I'm, I'm aware of, But when
you're praying to a departed St.

548
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,080
you're dressing the departed,
you're entrusting your burden to

549
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:58,680
them.
You're asking them to carry it

550
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:03,160
to God And I, you know, if you
believe demons are real and

551
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,440
we're not, we're not equipped, I
don't think, to discern the

552
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,200
spirit world there.
There's some risk there as well.

553
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,280
Yeah, because you don't
necessarily know who you're

554
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,240
addressing.
All that scripture doesn't, you

555
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,320
know, condone communicating with
the departed.

556
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,400
No, It would be nice if there
was like one example that was

557
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:21,600
positive.
Like just one.

558
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,640
Of someone praying to a St.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that'd

559
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:25,920
be good.
Well, I thought you gonna say it

560
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,520
would be nice if we had some
type of pattern or prayer or

561
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:30,600
some.
Type of model.

562
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,640
That we could use to pray after.
Obviously that's tongue in

563
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,120
cheek.
Jesus does give us a model

564
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,920
prayer, our father who art in
heaven.

565
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:46,720
So prayer is addressed to man,
the father in Jesus name and we

566
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,080
pray in the Spirit so we we can
look back and we the apostles

567
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,040
never is like hey Abraham,
Abraham would be the guy.

568
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,320
That would be one of them, you
know.

569
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,400
Lazarus is said to be in the
bosom of Abraham.

570
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,000
Abraham's bosom do.
A couple prayers his way, maybe

571
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,680
Moses one or two.
But we never see the apostles

572
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,880
pray to Abraham, Moses, David,
Stephen after his martyrdom, or

573
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,520
Mary.
And this is not just like it.

574
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,800
Well, it is an argument from
silence, but we have positive

575
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,560
direction on how to pray.
It doesn't.

576
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,120
There's a lot of.
Prayers in Scripture, and even

577
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:22,960
if you're just looking at the
New Testament, Paul's got a

578
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,880
bajillion prayers.
Jesus is praying.

579
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:27,720
It's we.
It's not like there's no

580
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,600
examples of prayer.
There's, you know, a decent

581
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,800
amount.
And we also have a prohibition

582
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,680
against, you know, in the, in
the Old Testament.

583
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:41,120
So final summary kind of the
whole thing, Mary was blessed

584
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,760
among women.
She was not sinless.

585
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,040
She was not perpetually virgin
and she should not be an object

586
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,040
a prayer scripture commands us
to bring our burdens directly to

587
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,040
God through Christ.
He's our one meteor that's both

588
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,280
salvifically we look at Romans
8.

589
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,840
He's also our intercessor along
with the the spirit.

590
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,720
We don't need heavenly
intermediaries when we already

591
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,960
have direct access to the throne
of grace.

592
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:08,560
It's.
Great.

593
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,640
I love it.
It's good.

594
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,640
We might be wrapping up Colts.
Might be, yeah, we, we

595
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,040
definitely isn't.
Probably wouldn't fall in our

596
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:16,320
Colts.
We can probably address it,

597
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:16,920
yeah.
I would.

598
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,280
Were you doing?
I thought we were doing that

599
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:19,880
episode on Pats fans.
Pats fans?

600
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,520
No, I'm just kidding.
If you were paying attention to

601
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,720
our definition, that wouldn't
have, it would not fit.

602
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,280
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we talked about possibly

603
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,640
doing like we might do something
like New Age or something.

604
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:32,560
Like that?
I don't know, I.

605
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,880
Don't that could that could be a
later, yeah.

606
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,560
I think it's good break.
And then something we've

607
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,720
revisit, like, I like these, you
know, apologetics cults, you

608
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:47,400
know, it seems like people like
to give their thoughts about it,

609
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:48,520
too, you know?
That's good.

610
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:53,840
There's no It's not a
coincidence that cults and

611
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,240
cults.
Sound similar?

612
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,080
That's funny, yeah.
'Cause the cults are a cult.

613
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:01,840
There we go.
I love it.

614
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,560
Great final take.
Final take.

615
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,200
Man living that Doctor Pepper
life.

616
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,840
Diet Doctor.
Pepper life, yeah.

617
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,360
Man.
These are supposed to be cans.

618
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:18,040
And they got you the bottles.
And Walmart did a substitution

619
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,160
and then got us the bottle.
Substitutions abound in these

620
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,000
things Do.
Y'all ever have your Walmart

621
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:24,880
stuff delivered y'all?
Y'all probably don't shop at.

622
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,480
Well, you got Harris Teeter
right here.

623
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,320
We do shop, we do shop at
Walmart because it's a better

624
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,160
price than Harris Teeter.
Yeah, Harris Teeter.

625
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,920
It's like so convenient, but.
It's higher priced.

626
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,680
Yeah, it's not.
It's we still do the old ALDI

627
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,440
and Walmart pick up a lot.
We we even do the Walmart pick

628
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:42,800
up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

629
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,880
Do you have delivery though?
So we might.

630
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,080
We don't know I pay for Walmart
plus.

631
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:48,080
That's.
What we?

632
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,080
Might like to do it's free
delivery, although we do like

633
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,320
give the person a tip sometimes
but it it's you got five kids

634
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,520
going different directions, you
know we can.

635
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:00,440
I said it could be the move.
Yeah, yeah.

636
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,880
So we, we just say, you know,
have it delivered and got your

637
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,280
stuff.
And they do occasionally.

638
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,080
If if if your order ever says
it's delayed, just cancel it

639
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,159
because it's.
Not coming.

640
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,560
It is not coming.
Don't believe those lies like

641
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,000
it's going to be, it's going to
be later.

642
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,280
It's going to be later.
We, I don't know that we've ever

643
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,719
had a delayed.
Man.

644
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,000
Delivery actually make it.
That's crazy.

645
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,880
It's like, I mean, going back to
substitutions, Walmart pickup is

646
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,000
what we normally do, I think,
and substitutions abound in that

647
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,360
world as well.
You just can't get, can't get

648
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,320
run.
At least that one's like close.

649
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,000
Sometimes they're like, not that
close.

650
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,639
You're like, who?
What was the judge?

651
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:37,360
What was the decision making on
this?

652
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,840
Yeah.
And if you never used it, they

653
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,400
tell you, hey, there's a
substitution.

654
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,719
And if you don't, you can
decline it or you can explicitly

655
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,280
approve it.
But if you don't do either, you

656
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,600
have implicitly approved it.
So they're gonna make that

657
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,920
substitution.
So if you got your phone or

658
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,040
something next to you, you can
kind of see the substitutions

659
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,800
happening real time and weigh
in.

660
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,560
But if you're busy doing
something like I was, I, I was

661
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,800
like what I ordered, you know, I
ordered three of the 12 pack

662
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,840
cans and we got 4 of the 8 pack
bottles.

663
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,680
What a world.
What?

664
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,440
What's this World Cup?
Post meal?

665
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:12,280
Can't be true.
Can't.

666
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,040
That's the proof right there.
Post meal.

667
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,040
Not, not, not here, but yeah,
the diet.

668
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,880
Doctor Pepper got to love it.
Whole family's still going

669
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,520
strong with it.
Yeah, I mean, our water was

670
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,200
recently bad.
Were we all affected by the

671
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,600
water shutdown?
I don't know I I, I don't even

672
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,040
know who does our water.
I just.

673
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,080
Are we all on CWP or Santee?
We are CWP.

674
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,840
Yeah.
So CWP is a good indication, but

675
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,400
it's there are some.
CWP saw some confusing yeah.

676
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,000
Who CWP actually buys their
water from Santee and then

677
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,920
delivers it to you?
So you could have.

678
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:49,920
I was.
Conservative.

679
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,080
We were conservative anyway,
'cause I 'cause I was looking up

680
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,880
that stuff and I was like, yeah,
maybe there's a chance.

681
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,600
Like people in our neighborhood
were like, don't drink the

682
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,360
water.
But I was like, we don't do it.

683
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,520
But I was like, they've no, they
probably some of these people

684
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,080
don't even have more time to
look up this stuff and like, and

685
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:04,600
I was like, I'll just, you know,
play it safe.

686
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:05,400
It was a lot.
It was.

687
00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:08,040
I hated it.
Like not the Charleston or even

688
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,400
Goose Creek, Moncks Corner area.
We probably should tell them

689
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:16,640
what's going on, but last week
there was a backhoe driver out

690
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,080
in the middle of nowhere because
our water comes up from Santee

691
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,720
Canal up in just north of Moncks
Corner and hit one of the main.

692
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,840
Thing.
It's like the 48 inch pipe and

693
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,120
it was, it was pushing out
water.

694
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,080
And so they had to figure out
how to fix that.

695
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:39,560
So while it's gushing out water,
I think you're OK because the

696
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,800
the pressure is positive.
But as soon as they did

697
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,400
something to start restricting
the water gushing out because

698
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,040
there's a hole in it, then it
then it's not good.

699
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,680
Because I saw a post that said,
hey, starting at 4:00 AM in the

700
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:50,760
morning in the water, you're
going to.

701
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,640
Be in the Yeah, you're.
Like a boil order.

702
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,120
I one of the football players
that I coached.

703
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:03,200
His mom works at Santee Cooper
and she has a daughter to play

704
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:04,640
soccer with Carrots.
And.

705
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,200
We were talking to her about it
and she was like showing

706
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,520
pictures like the not only did
it Pierce the pipe, but it bent

707
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,360
it.
So their normal first, their

708
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,640
first line thing to to like
cover it over wouldn't work

709
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,360
because it was kind of bent in
and it couldn't get.

710
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:26,160
So they end up having So you
know, we work on, you know, do

711
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,480
you know, do you know why we
have water towers or you?

712
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:30,200
That's kind of an engineering
question.

713
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:35,280
Well, my guess would be that I
would.

714
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,920
I'd just guess like water's
flowing over rocks.

715
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,160
I mean, like it like cleans it
because of the pressure.

716
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:42,760
I don't know.
And the water towers.

717
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:43,440
I don't know.
Yeah.

718
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:44,800
That that I don't know.
Yeah.

719
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,520
Yeah.
So water towers are there to

720
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:51,840
handle increased volume use.
So like peak volume use.

721
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,680
So you can, you have a set
number of pumps and you're

722
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,240
pumping water and like during
the busy time, like in the

723
00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:01,680
morning when a lot of people are
taking showers or in the evening

724
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,560
when people are coming home,
you'll actually the your

725
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,400
population will use more water
than what you could actually

726
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,000
physically pump with the pumps
there.

727
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,920
So you can you can accommodate
that by just adding more pumps

728
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,280
which are expensive.
Or during the off time like

729
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,320
while everyone's at work or when
everyone's asleep, you can use

730
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,760
that pump to pump up water into
the water towers.

731
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,840
So you have like this reserve.
So the water tower levels is

732
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,080
going down during peak usage and
then going back building back up

733
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,040
during off usage.
So I say all that to say that

734
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,560
they had to they thought they
had a fix and it didn't work.

735
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:40,840
So but then they had to like we
we can't turn it off now because

736
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,600
we've built into our so that's
why it like it was always at

737
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,480
night that they were trying to
fix it.

738
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,600
So anyways, it did get fixed
after like 3 or 4 days and it

739
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,920
was like 2 days.
It had to pass test 2 days in a

740
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,000
row before we could get off the
boil order.

741
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,320
So.
Boil in that water, man.

742
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,000
We did.
We have a Berkey.

743
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,880
Nice.
So a Berkey is designed that you

744
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:06,000
could like get a pitcher of pond
scum water, put it in and filter

745
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,080
it.
So we just put water in the

746
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,200
Berkey and drink it from there.
So it was.

747
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,640
It was easy peasy.
For us, living the life and the

748
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,440
Berkey is how often do you have
to like change filters?

749
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:23,280
Probably it's designed.
I think the the timing that they

750
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,400
give you kind of assumes you're
putting dirty water in.

751
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,080
There, Yeah, yeah, we're.
Putting tap water.

752
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,560
So I'm thinking we're not, we're
not straining it that bad.

753
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,200
But I was like, after this was
all over, I was like, we

754
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:40,720
probably should replace them.
We have I think 6 or 8 of the

755
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:44,080
filters because the more filters
you put in the longer it lasts,

756
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,800
but the filters are the the more
expensive part of the whole

757
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:48,160
machinery.
That makes sense.

758
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,920
That's like a good thing, yeah.
But so like we, I, I was like, I

759
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,400
want this to last long.
So I, I think we paid 200 bucks

760
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:56,600
when that's.
Really not expensive.

761
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, if like for it, yeah.

762
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,080
Filter all your work because a
filter is like, expensive.

763
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,840
I mean, not expensive, but you
run through that in your fridge

764
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,000
or whatever, you know?
Yeah.

765
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:06,640
And it's on a Berkey.
Yeah.

766
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:08,520
There you go.
Sweet.

767
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,760
Anything else Superman.
No.

768
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,120
Yeah, it's always so hard with
the banter on the back end.

769
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,000
Yeah, it is because we're trying
to think about the banter.

770
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,360
You know, we've already, you
know, it is is difficult.

771
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,560
But yeah, yeah, I think, I think
we should keep it on the back

772
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,720
end.
I don't, I mean I, I, I think

773
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:29,960
probably that's the move.
I don't like it, but I think

774
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,960
that's probably the move.
Or maybe we just have, you know,

775
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:38,320
a banter episode or something.
I don't know, a rant episode.

776
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,200
Rant rant about our favorite
theological things.

777
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:43,560
You could rant about current
affairs.

778
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,920
I only I won't even out you, but
you could rant about current

779
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,240
affairs.
That's great.

780
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,920
Well, yeah, a little teaser for
the for the Outsider.

781
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,160
Well, great.
Any any hints at with the next?

782
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,600
I mean, I guess we talk about
feminism potentially.

783
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,920
Yeah, I had to think.
I'm not on that.

784
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,600
We'll be ready for feminism by
the time we need to record.

785
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,080
Maybe.
Maybe we'll throw something

786
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,360
apologetic soon there.
Cool, we'll figure it out.

787
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,200
All right.
Well, that's our take.

788
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,000
Thanks for listening to Take 2.
Find us wherever you find

789
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,520
podcasts and on YouTube for
those who want to watch our

790
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:18,200
video cast.