Jonathan White Interview

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Jonathan Halfling, human.
I already, I'm already angry.

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I already don't like this
conversation.

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Elf half elf.
I would generally would go elf,

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Elf.
That's going to be in the in the

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fantasy realm.
That's generally the direction I

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go.
Oh my goodness.

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And.
What?

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What class?
It's got to be sneaky.

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Sneaky.
So an elf rogue?

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Yeah.
So you're not going to be a

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tank?
Oh no.

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OK 'cause you were a tank in in
Lao.

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Once Upon a time with a druid
character.

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OK, all right.
Sweet.

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So rogue what?
What type of weapon?

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So I just want to say we're
already establishing that I'm

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very cool.
Like we've started out with

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that.
Like that's the baseline.

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Right, right.
Yeah.

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Well a bow and arrow is the the
most natural.

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Like maybe a little poison
dagger or something like that.

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Yeah, wow, that's very cool.
So I have with me here a switch

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of, Oh no, D&D dice, you know
what I'm saying?

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So that's good.
So for those who don't know, and

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that's maybe what's that?
I don't.

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Know.
Tell me more.

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Yeah.
What is this?

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There are there are a group of
guys at our church who have

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decided to make to give D and DA
roll of the dice.

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So we're going to roll the dice
on.

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Rewind a childhood, tell our
parents this when we were kids,

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and just think about what they
would say.

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Yeah, well, it's it's still
there because Jill was a little

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bit concerned.
I'm like, it's not what we heard

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in the 80s growing up 90s.
It's not like it's mass suicide.

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And Satanic Panic.
Satanic actively, yeah, I I've

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actually, I've never, I've only
heard of dungeon Dragons like in

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movies like and like you said,
it's not with the cool kids

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playing it.
So that that's my, my

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understanding is either you're
actively worshiping Satan or all

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your friends are hanging out And
so you're you didn't get an

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about lightning.
Bolt, lightning bolt.

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That's yeah, there's that.
There's the there's the

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role-playing game and then
there's the what is it?

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The when you go out and you live
play it.

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You.
You want me to say the word?

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Lark live action role.
Playing Yeah, Larping.

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Yeah.
And so the, you know, I don't, I

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don't have any plans doing that.
OK, OK, maybe you do.

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I mean, let's just see what
happens, close it down right

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away.
Yeah, wow.

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So it's really cool.
I mean, if you But if you don't,

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I will say this.
If you don't enjoy movies at

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all, or any narrative books at
all, then you're probably not

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going to enjoy a game that
requires you to use your

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imagination a little bit.
I am not, I don't, I don't know

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when all the words, elves,
druids, fairies, bells, sorcery,

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it's not, not my thing.
But, you know, I respect,

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respect it.
I hope it's a great time.

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I I you know, I didn't talk so
much Dungeons and Dragons.

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If I did, I would have let
Jonathan walk into that house

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with the cats, which he almost
did.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It just depends.

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I gave him the.
Wrong.

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It was dicey for a minute.
I had a, I'm not going to say

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who, but someone gave me the
wrong address for this secret

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recording location.
And yeah, there was a family

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just chilling, watching TV with
cats on the couch, and I almost

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made it into that house.
What?

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What?
No.

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What would be more terrifying?
You walk in.

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Me and Michael are just hanging
out with some cats watching TV.

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So my my first thought was I
didn't know there'd be cats

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involved.
And I'm just going to tell you

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this is probably going to
increase my coolness level even

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a little bit more.
I was a little bit excited.

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I was like, oh, I did.
I there's cats now.

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And I'm I'm a cat fan.
If if we had to, I know cereal

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has been a topic on here before,
but if we went cats versus dogs

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as another, you know, hot take,
you know, I'm firmly team cat.

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Firmly keen.
You're you're keen, you're team

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dog.
I'm team dog.

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But listen, I don't like cats,
but cats always like me.

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I, I just sit down.
I ignore them and they come up

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to me and I'll pet them.
I'm fine, you know, putting the

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creation order, you know, to
subdue creation like I'm AI am a

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human, I'm the pinnacle.
Yes, you can come to me and I

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will, you know, scratch your
ears and then you go go do what

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you want to do.
So they always come to me and

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and I'm fine with that.
We had a cat, an outside cat

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growing up.
We would leave food for and I

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would pet it.
AKA not a cat person.

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We grew up with outside cats.
We just did.

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Yeah.
You guys have cats?

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No, we, we used to, used to,
yeah, one of our children is

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allergic now and I'm a little
bit salty about it.

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I've, I've tried to push for one
of the naked cats that doesn't

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have hair because I think that
that would alleviate the, the

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allergy concerns.
Wife has not bought into that

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idea yet.
Oh man, what a way to start the

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podcast.
Cats, Dungeons and Dragons,

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Anything else we're missing?
Well, I was just going to say,

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you know, whether you send your
kids to public school or private

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school or home school, it's a
roll the dice.

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You know what I'm saying?
So but don't don't.

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OK, there.
How to get that dad joke in

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there?
That's great.

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Love it.
Bye.

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You know, this is the the role
of our guest, whether they like

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it or not.
You have to look the camera dead

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in the eye and you're going to
say, let's take it to the next

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level.
Well, let's take it to the next

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level.
Yeah.

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From the hearts of the Low
Country in South Carolina.

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It's the Take Two podcast where
we take theology to the next

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level.
So here's a joke.

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Let's do it.
Why was Harry Potter sent to the

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principal's office now?
I already know we've we've

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already rang the alarm bells of
Dungeons and Dragons, and now

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we're I just, I figured out all
of the things the first time on.

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So if you never asked me back,
I've already hit all the things.

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That's right.
So.

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Why was Harry Potter sent to the
principal's office?

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Oh man.
I want, I want in my mind is I

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want to sit and try to figure it
out.

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I know and I want to watch you
sit and.

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Try to but I don't.
I I was thinking like the

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mentors or detentions or
something like that.

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I know so little about Harry
Potter that I can't make a good

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guess.
Quit.

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So here's what it is.
It's because he was cursing in

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class.
Nice.

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Love it.
That's a great joke to Michael

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Burr.
Which one of them though?

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Was it one of the three
unforgivable characters?

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OK.
Well, that that's a good way to

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open it up because this podcast
is all about education, 'cause

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we're with the great educator,
Mr. White.

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Honestly, there never had a
thought in our mind that he'd be

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on the podcast until Principal
White.

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Now we're like, we gotta have.
Him on the podcast.

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That was the big time.
When I was a lowly teacher,

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there was no chance.
There was no chance.

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Just kidding.
So what did you know?

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You wanted to be a teacher, and
I'm assuming that your father

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had played some role in that
decision.

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So there's a lot of teaching in
my family.

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My both my parents, mom and dad
are long time teachers.

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And to that def I grew up in it
like I grew up in school.

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So I was there early, that
school that my dad taught at, I

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was there late.
And so I just it was kind of

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kind of felt like home between
the school and the church.

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Like these are like places that
I just was raised in, but I, I

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would say I didn't really know.
Here's the honest truth.

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I didn't know that I wanted to
be a teacher until I got into a

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classroom and started doing this
and started seeing some

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connections because I didn't
have, I don't have your

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traditional maybe route to the
classroom.

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So I, I did fall in love with
literature in high school.

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And so I was like, I don't know
what I'm going to do with this,

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but I want to be around
literature.

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And so I just went to be an
English major in college and was

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just insufferable for a number
of years.

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Michael was around for those
years.

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If you don't.
Have much longer.

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Hair Michael was a youth pastor
and a mentor, has been a mentor

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for me for a long time.
And so he he lived through some

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of the insufferable English
major years.

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And then towards the end of
college, I ended up working at a

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Christian bookstore.
One of the managers that came in

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had come out of education,
worked at this Christian

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bookstore, which shall remain
nameless for about a year and

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was like, I got to go back.
I got to get out of this place.

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And so he went to be the
headmaster at a school in Mount

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Pleasant.
And he just, we had developed a

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relationship.
He knew I was graduating with an

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English degree.
And he said, you know, we're

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always looking for male teachers
and academic subjects in high

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school.
Do you want to, you know, try

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teaching?
And I, he said, he actually

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said, if you graduate and you
don't know what to do, give me a

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call.
And I graduated, and I looked

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around and I looked at all of
the plethora of job

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opportunities for recently
graduated English majors and

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gave him a call.
You don't want to do Starbucks.

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Yeah, Starbucks wasn't going to
be for me.

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Of course, I always have a dream
of writing, which is every

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English majors, you know, secret
dream.

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But I got in front of 9th and
10th graders teaching world

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literature and I and you know,
not I didn't come with the

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education degree, but that
particular principle I'll just

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name drop.
His name is Joe Holsey.

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He's still in education today.
He became just a really

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significant mentor in kind of
shaping what it looked like to,

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to run a classroom and to teach
well.

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And so I, I learned from him and
it was part time the first year

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and then full time the next year
and 14 years later.

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That's, that's where I am.
Wow.

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That's what I was going to ask.
So 14 years teaching went, you

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got your masters and then
recently, recently, I don't know

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if it's last year or two,
whenever you moved up to

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principal middle school.
So you've kind of seen education

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from all these different vantage
points, got some good, good

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perspective 'cause I think, you
know, there'll be a lot of

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different, different questions
we'll ask.

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But I think one of the
polarizing things, I think

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people have really strong
opinions on things like public

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school or home school or private
school.

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And it's hard to navigate.
And sometimes people are kind of

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like, it's definitely, if you
choose something else, it's not

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good.
And I'm interested to hear, you

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know, coming from the private
cause and you grew up in private

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school teaching private school,
but you're married to someone

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teachers in the public school
and grew up in public.

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Schools and so I get, I get to
have both of those perspectives

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and, and my wife Kenya and I
we've, we've had these

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conversations about public
versus private and then maybe

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we'll get into a little bit of
that later.

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To start off though, talking
about public school in general

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trivia question do you know how
public schools got started in

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this country?
I think it was with Dewey was in

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the Dewey Decimal System that
guy.

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Did he?
So he, he had a yeah, he really

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influenced the way that school
was done and and really, we

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could probably say secularized
the the public school.

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System for For anyone who thinks
critically about this issue,

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probably a good guy for some
people, yeah.

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If you are currently employed by
the Department of Education,

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he's probably a good guy.
Yeah, and the name gets dropped

230
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a lot.
But interestingly, the public

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00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,000
education in this country starts
with Puritans.

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The Puritans were I I I had to
look this up because I thought

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it was just an interesting fact.
They passed in 1647 this law in

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Massachusetts.
It's called the old Diluter

235
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:31,760
Satan Law.
I like it already.

236
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Tell me more, the old.
Diluter Satan law.

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And so it starts off this way,
it being 1 chief project of that

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old deluder Satan to keep men
from the knowledge of the

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scriptures as in former times,
keeping them in an unknown

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00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:47,280
tongue.
So that in these later times by

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persuading from the use of
tongues that so at least the

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00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,520
true sense and meaning of the
original might be clouded with

243
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false glosses of Saint seeming
deceivers.

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00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:58,520
That's just a big punch at the
Papist.

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00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,640
You you hear that he's saying
like that the scriptures have

246
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,320
been kept in a in a foreign
tongue and not understandable

247
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,280
and glossed in ways that are not
true to the original text.

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I said knowing all of that and
that learning may not be buried

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in the graves of our forefathers
in church in Commonwealth.

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He says it is therefore ordered
by this court and authority.

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And then he goes on to say every
Township that has fifty

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families, as soon as you hit
fifty families, as soon as the

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Lord actually has increased you
to the 50 households, they're

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going to appoint someone in
their town to teach children.

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And so they're starting this as
a formalized structure, the

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Puritans.
And really their goal in in

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starting this kind of mandatory
education process is because

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they want people to be able to
read the Bible.

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That is the number one priority
for the Puritans as they're

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starting formalized education.
And then they kind of kick it

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00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:55,680
up.
If you have 100 households or

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100 families, then there's
another kind of school that you

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open up and the constituents of
that town are kind of paying

264
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,560
into the coffer to support the
schoolmaster, the school teacher

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and the needs of that school.
Well, back to the Puritans.

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That's good.
And is it the church that's

267
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doing this or the government, or
were they kind of the same thing

268
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:17,760
for the Puritans?
I'm not sure for the.

269
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,480
Puritans, they, they held those
things pretty close together.

270
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,240
Yeah, yeah.
And that's that that's really

271
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,800
good.
A lot different, different.

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00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,040
It's come a long way.
We'll we'll say that I'm sure

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00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:30,720
yeah.
All this enlightenment that mid

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00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,320
1800s nineteen 100.
Sure, things shifted a little

275
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,920
bit, but I like getting back,
back to the roots that it's, you

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00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,160
know, a Christian ideal.
Or scripture, you know, literacy

277
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:46,800
in in this arena is a very
judeo-christian ideal because

278
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,600
again, it comes back to the
people of the book, right?

279
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,240
There are people that that have
access to this revelation from

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00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,160
God and we need them to be able
to read it.

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00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:57,440
We need them to be able to study
it.

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00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,520
And so that was the, that was
the endeavor.

283
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,520
I love it because when I think
of education, I think in the

284
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:03,480
Bible, I just think of like
Deuteronomy 6 and it's like

285
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,800
backed into Jewish upbringing
and all this stuff.

286
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,240
So I like, I like, I like all of
that.

287
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,360
That's a good kind of set the
baseline for for any anything

288
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,840
else you got Michael on like
background with Jonathan that we

289
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:15,200
want to touch and kind of
highlight.

290
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:17,720
Yeah.
Well, kind of going back, how

291
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:22,920
much would you say that you are?
Because, well, maybe a lot of

292
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,680
our listeners don't know, but
some of them maybe do.

293
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,400
When your dad's in the
classroom, whether it be at

294
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,000
church, and I've seen some clips
of him in another classroom,

295
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:39,120
it's very extroverted.
I guess I could say how much of

296
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,200
that has bled over to your
teaching?

297
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,600
I, I know you're, everyone's
different and I remember I'll,

298
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,800
I'll, I'm going to ask a
question while saying something,

299
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,320
then I'll turn it over to you.
I remember when I was teaching

300
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,400
in the Navy and I was, someone
said in there like, well, I just

301
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,000
thought that you were going to
do this, this and this because

302
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,360
that's how I do it.
I'm like, that's not, that's not

303
00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,280
necessarily me.
I'm not going to do things, you

304
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,880
know, I'm not going to have the
same type of personality that

305
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:04,920
you have.
So that's a long way of asking,

306
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,360
you know, kind of how, how would
you compare yours and your dad's

307
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,280
teaching styles?
So if you know Jack White as a

308
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,840
teacher, you know that he's an
emphatic teacher.

309
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,560
He's charismatic in the
classroom.

310
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:21,200
And if you, if I would say this,
if you know me personally, but

311
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,360
you haven't seen me in the
classroom, it's you might be a

312
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:30,280
little surprised by seeing me in
the classroom because I do, I do

313
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,040
get energetic and I there, there
are certain things, OK.

314
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,320
So as you, you know, as you
teach for a long time, you get

315
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,840
known for certain things.
There are certain, I don't know,

316
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,160
phrases that different teachers
have that happen over and over

317
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:44,960
again.
And I'm just different little

318
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,240
idiosyncrasies that you become
known for.

319
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:52,880
And the classrooms around my
classroom knew some of my

320
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,560
idiosyncrasies because they were
they were really loud.

321
00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,520
So like early on in the year
when we're doing grammar in 7th

322
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,960
grade, we talked about the four
types of sentences.

323
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,800
And I mean, it's an exclamatory
sentence, right?

324
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,440
Like we're not going to, we're
not going to be quiet if it's an

325
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,360
exclamatory sentence.
And so the classrooms around me

326
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,760
just kind of got used to there
was going to be some yelling and

327
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:14,840
everything was OK.
Like it wasn't like nobody was

328
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,960
getting hurt, but like there was
going to be some yelling.

329
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,560
So yeah, that's it's.
So some of that has bled over,

330
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:21,840
probably.
Yeah, for sure.

331
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:22,640
That's good.
That's good.

332
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,640
Great.
Are we can we sign up for like

333
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,360
spots?
Can I audit, can I audit one of

334
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:27,440
your classes?
I would love to.

335
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,960
Well, here's the here's the
challenging thing is I'm not in

336
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,200
the classroom.
That's right.

337
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,520
You're so so as yeah.
So now as the assistant

338
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:40,040
principal for middle school, I I
have a different role and it's

339
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,440
and I don't get that same kind
of interaction.

340
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:43,840
Do you miss it some?
What's that?

341
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,040
Do you miss it some?
Oh, yeah, for sure.

342
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:47,960
Yeah.
It's it's a different now.

343
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:52,080
I still am.
I'm still finding ways to

344
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,480
interact with students and build
those relationships.

345
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,240
But it's just not the same when
like, you know, when you have

346
00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,360
those students in the classroom
day after day after day, you

347
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,640
establish the rhythms and
relationships and it's just,

348
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,440
it's just a different thing.
And so now my role is, is

349
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,839
different than it was when I was
in the classroom.

350
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,040
And then part of that I miss.
Now I still get to scratch that

351
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,960
It's sometimes, right.
So I get to do Sunday school

352
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,480
classes at our church.
Sometimes I'll speak in Chapel

353
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:26,480
and also get a chance to present
at like SKISA conferences.

354
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,880
SKISA is the kind of governing
body, South Carolina Independent

355
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,360
School Association.
And and so we have yearly

356
00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:34,920
conferences.
And I just last weekend got to

357
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,120
go in and present, you know,
some strategies for teaching

358
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:41,200
research in the middle school
classroom, which was riveting,

359
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,480
if I do say so.
Yeah, and we should say this

360
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,520
because I'm going to butcher it,
but you have like some special

361
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,160
designation, like a residency or
like you're an expert.

362
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:49,400
Like, you know what I'm saying?
Like you've got some.

363
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,480
Say say more of those master
teacher I like.

364
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:52,760
I don't know what it's called,
but.

365
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,720
Yeah, I like expert, I like you
could just say artist in

366
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,520
residence.
No, that, that's not a real

367
00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,760
thing.
So yeah, the SKISA master

368
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,920
teacher as a designation that
we, you kind of work towards

369
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,240
over the course of a year,
develop a portfolio and and

370
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,680
video yourself teaching and send
that off to SKISA and they

371
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,600
confer or don't confer master
teacher status.

372
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,040
Now, I happen to be aware of the
school with where you taught and

373
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,360
where you are a principal, and
I'm also aware that the high

374
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:24,200
school assistant principal
principals and then teaches a

375
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,040
section or two of mathematics.
Is there a time in the future

376
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,040
where you will go back and teach
a section or two of English?

377
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,200
Or does that make sense because
it's like you need to do 3 or

378
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,040
none and three is probably too
much.

379
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,600
Yeah.
So the way the English classes

380
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,480
run in the middle school, I
would probably need to teach 3

381
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,360
to keep them all together.
Now, I mean there is there are

382
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:47,040
team teaching possibilities and
you can do some of that Co

383
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,680
planning to make sure that
they're that the classes are

384
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,240
tracking together.
It does complicate it.

385
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,920
It does vary the experience of
the students from classroom to

386
00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,000
classroom.
But what I have found this year

387
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,960
and maybe at some point in the
future, I may try to get back in

388
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,360
the classroom.
But what I have found this year

389
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:11,560
is that the role that I have now
is just it's, it's really hard.

390
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,600
It would be very difficult to,
to be able to schedule like, OK,

391
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,760
so this is class time because
there are things that come up at

392
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,560
all times during the school day.
I would, if I were in a

393
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,760
classroom, I would probably be
pulled out of that classroom by

394
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:28,680
some event or something that's
happening on campus two or three

395
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,680
times a week minimum.
And so it would, it would, it

396
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,440
would be a challenge.
And I'm actually a little upset

397
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,520
right now because I missed a
prime opportunity.

398
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:42,760
Jonathan, my kid, my second
grader, his teacher is Miss

399
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,080
Gilberts.
I coach her kid.

400
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,520
I see her husband at least
weekly.

401
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,240
And I was like, I should have
asked him just questions the

402
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,640
spring.
I'm like I missed my

403
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,440
opportunity.
Do you know how close those that

404
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,480
they were?
I've just, I've heard stories

405
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,240
but I don't really know.
But they were they were right

406
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,880
next to each other so much that
I went to introduce myself to.

407
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,520
John, not Jonathan's replacement
for teaching, but the the

408
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,640
replacement for where he was
like his classroom because I

409
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,440
think he's a, a history teacher.
And I went to introduce myself

410
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:21,240
to him.
And Matt, I forgot his last

411
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,680
Gilbert was like, he thought I
was messing around at first

412
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,480
because it was so ingrained that
that was Jonathan over there,

413
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,040
but it wasn't Jonathan anymore.
So.

414
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:30,760
No, no longer.
That was a that was.

415
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,000
A missed opportunity.
Yeah, you really did because he,

416
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,640
yeah, he teaching next to each
other for the last like 7 years.

417
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,120
We have found many opportunities
to poke at each other.

418
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,480
So if you were sitting here, I
know there are things I would

419
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,600
even, I would even like tell
students like so they would, you

420
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,000
know, there's a certain class
that would come to my classroom

421
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,320
for English and the next class
would be Mr. Gilbert's.

422
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,320
And I would just try to like
front load.

423
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,160
Like I'm like, hey, if you want
to try to get class off the

424
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,880
rails in Mr. Gilbert's
classroom, I was like, here's

425
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:00,400
today, here's what it's going to
be.

426
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,800
Somebody's going to just quote
this one verse from Ecclesiastes

427
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,000
and just just lob it, just lob
it out there and you're going to

428
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:13,480
see something happen.
He's, he's either going to crush

429
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:18,160
that internal desire to just
expound on Ecclesiastes, or

430
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,160
he's, he's going to go ahead and
blow 20 minutes talking about

431
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,160
vanity.
Vanity.

432
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:25,440
Oh, that's great.
Yeah, man.

433
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,360
Well, lesson learned next time.
Next time I'll ask him.

434
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:30,400
But his kids a good, good
goalie.

435
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,600
Our soccer team we're destroying
at North Lake.

436
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,200
We're winning like 5/8 to 1/8 to
0.

437
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,240
Wow, you know that's what.
It's like.

438
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:38,800
About pedagogy, Yeah, yeah,
yeah.

439
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,040
Especially, especially at this
level, it's all about putting

440
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,280
up.
Well, you need to let those kids

441
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:44,320
know they're not gonna win
everything.

442
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:45,840
In life, yeah.
So doing a service.

443
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,800
So.
You're crushing is teaching.

444
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,640
That to the other teams.
It's great, but so good we have

445
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,200
a good foundation good baseline
for I guess I think it's

446
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,280
important your journey and then
you've like pursuit you've been

447
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,640
very successful pursued this
master teacher your assistant

448
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,640
principal and so that this
perspective.

449
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,400
So I, I'll tell you where my, my
heads at, you know, thinking

450
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,280
about, you know, talk people
home school is the only way

451
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,920
because we, we don't want to let
our kids get indoctrinated by

452
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,520
the state.
There's people on the other

453
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,400
side, you know, man, we, we
don't want to totally withdraw

454
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,440
from society.
This Benedict option.

455
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,560
Let's just insulate ourselves in
a bubble and we don't go to

456
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:23,680
school board meetings.
We don't care.

457
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,840
And no wonder public schools are
off the rails because all the

458
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,360
Christians said I'm out and
there's private school, this

459
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:33,120
hybrid where you can get
Christian education, but it

460
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,120
ain't cheap is that much?
Should we, you know, should we

461
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:37,800
send our kids to public school
and solve the missions for

462
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:38,280
Christ?
I don't know.

463
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,800
There's a lot of, you know, pros
and cons Michael Mott is a a

464
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,680
product of the public school.
Can't we all tell, tell I'm just

465
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:46,600
kidding.
Great, great.

466
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,680
My wife, public school, she's a
public teacher of your wife.

467
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,080
So I think we're all in
different spots.

468
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,000
And so I didn't really ask a
question, but there's a lot of

469
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,040
floating thoughts out there.
We want to latch on to something

470
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:58,480
and try to talk through some of
this.

471
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,040
Well, when you talk about the
public versus private kind of

472
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,320
divide, I think, I think it can
be really divisive.

473
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,680
I think especially inside the
church there can be, I mean

474
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,720
there are really strong opinions
on it and someone.

475
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,240
At our Home group basically said
there's only one right answer,

476
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,720
home school.
Well, and, and to be fair, if

477
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,240
you look around at culture and
you kind of see the shift that's

478
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,920
happened since around the 50s,
as you, as you look at the death

479
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:29,200
of modernism in the birth of
postmodernism, the kind of

480
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:34,000
negation of, of the idea of
truth, you do kind of wonder,

481
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,880
well then, what's the basis for
a public education system?

482
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,560
If, if as a culture,
theoretically, we've kind of

483
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:46,600
ditched objective truth as a, as
a thing, where what's the

484
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:51,880
foundation that we have for, for
behavioral norms, academic norms

485
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,600
in the public school system so
that there are big thoughts.

486
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,120
And I would say this first and
foremost, I I would never want

487
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:04,000
to denigrate teachers in the
public school system who are

488
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,000
doing a good job because there
are a a lot of teachers and

489
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,800
there are a lot of Christian
teachers.

490
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,760
And they get vilified a lot,
like all these, these, you know,

491
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,720
teachers.
Yeah, I people talk bad about

492
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:15,080
them.
What?

493
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,040
I mean, what do they mean to or
not that harshly, but I hear

494
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,960
that a lot.
My wife, maybe I'm sensitive to

495
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,640
my wife was a public teacher.
It's like, oh, you hear these

496
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,720
things and it's like, wow,
really kind of look down.

497
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,080
Sometimes and, and the Christian
teacher in the public school

498
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,880
system is walking a very fine
line.

499
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,640
I mean, it is a, it is a
difficult thing to be able to

500
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:39,640
manage the personal faith and
what that has to do with the,

501
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:44,120
the interaction with the public
in this setting where the rules

502
00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:48,360
have kind of been set up to, to
say we have to leave that at the

503
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:49,760
door when you come in this
building.

504
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,240
We're not, we don't have that
capacity to talk about those

505
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,720
things.
But those teachers are, are

506
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,840
there are a lot of missionary
teachers and they are, they're

507
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,400
ministering in ways that the
teachers in the private schools

508
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,040
don't have access to.
They're ministering to a

509
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,120
population that private school
teachers don't have access to.

510
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,120
And so I would never want to to
denigrate what those teachers

511
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:17,080
are doing because it is, it is
really difficult.

512
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,400
My wife Kenya, grew up in public
schools and she teaches there.

513
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,640
She she's taught in public
schools from kindergarten up

514
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,200
through high school.
And then, and I mean, and we

515
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,880
were talking like rookie teacher
of the year, like where she's,

516
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,800
she's an accolated teacher.
She's a fantastic rock star

517
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,120
teacher.
In fact, I have to say she's

518
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:39,200
gone from kindergarten all the
way to college level.

519
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,320
She has taught everything in
that mix and done and done all

520
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,520
of it.
Well, she teaches at a public

521
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,400
school and she says I wouldn't
send my kids there.

522
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,120
And so she has that perspective.
Now.

523
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,920
She's also there and she also
ministers and she's able to have

524
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,040
relationships with these
students in a certain population

525
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,480
of students that she works with.
She is an absolute light.

526
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,600
And when they come with problems
or they come asking questions,

527
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,520
that's when she is able to to
actually minister in ways that

528
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,000
are kind of biblically based.
So what I hear you saying is

529
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,240
maybe instead of sending our
kids to be missionaries to

530
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,080
public schools, we send adult
teachers who love the Lord and

531
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:22,960
love these kids to be the
missionaries.

532
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,560
There is a need for missionary
teachers in the public school

533
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,840
system for sure.
And, and I think that's

534
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,680
something that we will have to
talk about.

535
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,280
The idea of missionary kids in a
public school is is cool.

536
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,360
I would tell you probably 1 out
of 1000 children is equipped for

537
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:44,680
that work.
Yeah, I, I, I came across this

538
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,760
quote by Bodhi Bakkam that
basically said your kids are not

539
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,320
children, are not missionaries,
they're the mission field.

540
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,360
And I think that's, that's a
good perspective 'cause it

541
00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:56,440
covers both of that when you
think of your own children.

542
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,640
And then like we're saying,
Kenya, my, my wife would say the

543
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,080
similar thing.
It's pretty amazing.

544
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,920
I mean, you're spending so much
time with kids and kids latch on

545
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,840
to you and there's a lot of
people from a different

546
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,080
situation.
It's just like you're that

547
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:10,480
natural.
People just come to you.

548
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,680
It's like to have someone come
to you with problems.

549
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,280
It's like, wow, you can't.
Missionaries go places hoping

550
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:17,600
people will come to them.
I think people will just

551
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:18,920
naturally come to you.
That's pretty amazing.

552
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,160
It is, and especially as as
teachers manifest the fruit of

553
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,680
the Spirit in that secular
environment, it really does

554
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,040
speak volumes.
I mean, it it you stand out in

555
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,800
that environment if you are not
the one in the teachers break

556
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,840
room that's always griping about
these students, that the one

557
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,200
that is uplifting the students.
And this is what Kenya has

558
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,880
always been in whatever
schooling situation she's been

559
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,920
in.
She has been the one that is

560
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,880
like, I'm here for the kids.
Like we're going to we're going

561
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,960
to meet them where they are and
lift them up.

562
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,520
We're not going to sit here and
snipe at them and pick at them

563
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,160
and say all the problems that we
have with them.

564
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,400
It's going to be OK, this is the
behavior.

565
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:01,920
Now let's move.
Let's move them up.

566
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,840
Like let's get around them and
move them up.

567
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,520
And that's how the conversation
has to be around students.

568
00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:11,640
Too often when teachers get
together it it just turns into a

569
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,600
gripe fest.
And that's, that's poisonous.

570
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,520
Yeah.
And I would say that's probably

571
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,920
not exclusive to public schools
because you're going to have

572
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:24,960
private schools that have
different levels of teachers.

573
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:30,040
And, you know, Northwood is not
exclusive to you.

574
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,240
You don't have to be a Christian
to go there.

575
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,360
So I remember when I taught
there a couple of years, you

576
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,760
know, someone, someone was like,
well, you're teaching all

577
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,000
Christians.
I'm like, by far, I'm not

578
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,800
teaching all Christians.
So I, I viewed them as a mission

579
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:50,760
field as well, maybe not as hard
hit a mission field as a public

580
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,280
school, but it was still, there
was a need there.

581
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,440
And I think you do have some
teachers who stand out, who love

582
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,440
the students more, who are
trying to model and build in and

583
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,280
you know, they're still going to
draw those students and some of

584
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,600
it's personality driven.
So you have some students drawn

585
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,280
to different teachers you know
as well.

586
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,800
I think it's a really good kind
of launching point to talk

587
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:14,240
about.
All right.

588
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,840
So let's talk some some public
versus private.

589
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,440
It's interesting that you say
you feel like it's maybe maybe

590
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,160
less of a mission field than the
public school.

591
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,840
Well, I mean, it may not be as
dark a mission field.

592
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,480
I think it's probably every bit
of mission field maybe.

593
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,040
Well, I would say I could talk
about spiritual things in a

594
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,840
private school openly where I
couldn't necessarily in a public

595
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,520
school.
So that maybe even a better

596
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,680
opportunity.
And the populace is you're

597
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,840
coming from a different angle.
I'll tell you the number one

598
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,640
concern that I have for
Christian School students is

599
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,440
that they, they, they believe
that they are Christians because

600
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,680
they are culturally Christian.
And so I like, so in 14 years of

601
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:03,240
Christian School education,
being in the classroom and now

602
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,400
seeing it from the
administrative standpoint, I

603
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,440
even, I mean, I, even, I, I
collected data and it's self

604
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,640
reported at the last school that
I was at before Northwood, I

605
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,360
collected data from students.
And it was, it was alarming to

606
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:20,680
look at the numbers of students
in a Christian School

607
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,680
environment.
Who would you know on a scale of

608
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:30,320
one to five, you know, how
confident are you that you are

609
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,840
saved?
And to have even 40% of the

610
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,080
students in a Bible class that I
was teaching.

611
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,280
By the way, I taught high school
English for six years at this

612
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,600
previous school and then I went
full Bible for two years.

613
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,200
Bible and Chapel were the only
things that I taught all of the

614
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,080
high school Bible and then
coordinating the chapels.

615
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,560
And so I, that's when I, that's
when I'll tell you that two

616
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,200
years of teaching Bible to
Christian School students

617
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:01,480
changed my whole perspective of
ministry in Christian schools,

618
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,240
because I think so many people
look at a Christian School and

619
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,320
they go, man, that's just the
dream.

620
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,600
Like everybody there is, say all
these churched families and

621
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,440
there must be no behavior
problems.

622
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,760
And that is simply not the case.
We, we have a lot of students in

623
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,360
a Christian School who are not
saved and they're unchurched.

624
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,480
Their, their families see it as
just a better education, a

625
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,040
better situation for them to be
in.

626
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:28,480
And they have the money to pay
for it.

627
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,240
And they go, OK, we'll go, we'll
send them to private school.

628
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,520
It's fine.
And they're going to talk about

629
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:32,920
the Bible.
That's whatever like that.

630
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,560
That's not our thing.
But they would send their, their

631
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,800
kids because they feel like it's
a better opportunity.

632
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,760
But there are an alarming number
of kids who even are churched

633
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,920
but biblically illiterate.
And it's, it's almost like

634
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,080
they've been around the gospel
so much.

635
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,800
They've sort of just, I've
gotten too used to hearing it.

636
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,640
This can happen in in churches
too.

637
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,120
If you grew up in church, you
just hear it so much.

638
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:04,480
Sometimes some of these kids
kind of feel like, I mean, like

639
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,400
I'm Christian, like I go to
church once in a while and like

640
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,080
I go to a Christian School.
But the truth about Christian

641
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,120
schools is not, it's not just
that cut and dry.

642
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,520
So the behavioral content is not
different between a public

643
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,120
school and a private school.
And I'm Speaking of private

644
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,560
Christian schools because that's
my experience.

645
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,400
But the behavioral content is
not different between the two

646
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,880
systems.
You, you see the same behaviors

647
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,880
in the public school and in the
private school because you have

648
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,440
kids in both schools and you
have sin natures in both

649
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,640
schools.
I think some of the differences

650
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:42,840
is that in the public school
system you may have a higher

651
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,240
concentration of those behaviors
than you do in the private

652
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,200
Christian School, but the
behaviors still exist.

653
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,360
So then if you have the same
kinds of behaviors, you have the

654
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,200
same sin issues in a public
school and in a private school,

655
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,760
what advantage then?
Maybe Paul would say it this

656
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,640
way.
What advantage then is private?

657
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,080
And I say very much, very great
in every regard.

658
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:11,640
Right.
So let's talk about private

659
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,480
Christian schools.
And this is going to be out of,

660
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,800
out of my experience of teaching
into and then having visited

661
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,800
others and you know, you know,
collaborated with teachers in

662
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,680
other private Christian schools.
There's generally smaller

663
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,360
classes and that's a huge plus.
That's what's 1 of the the major

664
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,280
actually drawing points that we
when we get students into our

665
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,960
school, one of the major drawing
points is smaller class size.

666
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,240
What's a typical public school
class size?

667
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,280
When when Kenya had she's at,
she's in a more specialized

668
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,680
situation now, but when she was
teaching general population

669
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,040
students, she could have 30 and
that would be pretty normal.

670
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,080
I know that some of my some of
the teachers in the middle

671
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,800
school hallway right now at my
school have talked about having

672
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,920
upwards of 3030, 334 students,
and that's middle school

673
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,440
students.
What's the limit for like for

674
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,680
Northwood because it could vary
from school to school?

675
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:11,520
Where we are right now is we cap
classes at 24 dot dot dot maybe

676
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,239
25 couple couple of them 20
fives.

677
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,840
Because when my last year
teaching trig I had one class of

678
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,960
25 and I was like this is a.
Lot that gets to the that that

679
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:21,840
that's the upper but.
It was.

680
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,920
It was that way because of
senior schedules and stuff.

681
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,800
And so it just was a special it
was one of those dot dot dots.

682
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,159
There's 25 in there, but I can
that was tight.

683
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,040
Adding five more kids that
you're responsible to try to

684
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,159
understand where there are
missing and under

685
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:38,840
misunderstanding.
It would be very tough.

686
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,480
To try to individualize for 25
students in a class period is is

687
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,520
very challenging.
So by the way, the perfect class

688
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,880
size is 18 and I'll, I'll die on
that.

689
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,040
You know, that is the perfect
class size.

690
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,960
Yeah, 18, but generally smaller
classes, generally a smaller

691
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,440
concentration of those
challenging behaviors.

692
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,920
Now that all that depends on a
school's enrollment policy.

693
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,720
There are small Christian
schools that kind of just have

694
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:07,160
to take whoever applies for
financial reasons.

695
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,240
Our school doesn't have that
particular situation.

696
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:15,040
We have some pretty significant
standards for academics and

697
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,160
behavior for the enrollment
process or admission.

698
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,640
Yeah, that too.
And, and, and so if you get to

699
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,680
be selective with the students
that you're admitting, well, you

700
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,720
naturally minimize some of those
problematic behaviors.

701
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,640
That doesn't mean you get rid of
them, but the concentration of

702
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,160
the behaviors generally goes
down.

703
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:38,360
I'll tell you the, I think maybe
the number one benefit of the

704
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,160
private Christian School is in
our responses to those

705
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,560
behavioral problems in the
public school system.

706
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:52,280
There are behavior modification
plans and there are strategies

707
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,040
and there are things that they
work with, but they can't really

708
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,720
sit down and talk with a kid
about why what you did was

709
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:05,800
wrong.
And that's, that's 50% of my job

710
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,240
right now.
That's what I do.

711
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:12,960
I sit down and talk with kids
about what is right and what is

712
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,680
wrong and why do we have those
standards like so that's that's

713
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,920
crucial in the in the way that
we deal with behavioral problems

714
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,800
with students.
The public school system is not

715
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,080
able to provide a foundation for
what is moral behavior.

716
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,680
It's kind of it's just kind of a
hangover from the

717
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,840
judeo-christian framework of our
nation.

718
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:34,960
Like these are generally
accepted things.

719
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,960
You generally shouldn't be rude
to people.

720
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,400
You generally shouldn't use
offensive language.

721
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,000
You like all these things.
They're just kind of they're

722
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,360
kind of wishy washy.
If you don't have something that

723
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,600
you can say for this reason for
because of this objective truth

724
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,360
that comes from the creator,
this behavior is wrong.

725
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,760
And that's one of the things
that we get to do in a private

726
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,320
Christian School.
Wow, quick question.

727
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,040
I don't know, I have no idea
about this.

728
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,640
So it could be anywhere.
What's this?

729
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,520
When I hear people talk about
positives of public school,

730
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,640
sometimes they'll point to, you
know, special education

731
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:11,760
accommodations, these kind of
things.

732
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,720
So I don't know what it's like
in AI know it probably varies

733
00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:15,680
across private schools, but I
I've heard that's like one of

734
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:17,680
the things the resources
sometimes aren't there, that

735
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,840
kind of thing.
And that is, and so I've, I've

736
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,680
got some drawbacks kind of that
I thought through one of those

737
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,960
drawbacks of private Christian
schools is generally a, a

738
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,400
smaller awareness of kind of the
reality of mental health issues.

739
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,040
But I think that's a, I think
it's a church issue.

740
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,760
I think our, our churches have
been maybe a little bit slow to

741
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,600
look at that.
I think, I mean, I maybe I'm a

742
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,360
little biased.
I think our church does really

743
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,160
well with this because of our
connection with the Low Country

744
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,680
Biblical Counseling Center and,
and an understanding of what,

745
00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:56,400
what mental health is and how
Scripture speaks into it and how

746
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,160
the Holy Spirit speaks into
those situations.

747
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:05,160
But there are definitely more
resources for special education

748
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:06,960
for some of that mental health
awareness.

749
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,480
But but again, in the public
school, if you were to go see a

750
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,440
counselor and you're dealing
with anxiety, there are some

751
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,360
things that they can do that
physiologically will help move

752
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,480
that process.
But there's a foundation that's

753
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:22,880
missing.
There's a foundation of truth

754
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,200
that's missing.
Now, let's say there are some

755
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:31,880
kids with autism at Northwood,
but I wouldn't say we have

756
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:38,840
anybody that has any major like
special education requirements

757
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:43,440
type of things that So that is
that's, I guess you could

758
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,080
consider that a drawback if
that's your child, but maybe

759
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,000
it's a positive if it's not your
child, because you know, the

760
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,080
teacher is not trying to
individualize to a very wide

761
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,360
range of students.
It's, it's some, like you said,

762
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,280
it's a little bit narrowed in
their focus.

763
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,440
It is, yeah, because of
enrollment policies.

764
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,400
So it provides that that
narrowness a little bit.

765
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,920
And I I bring that my wife was a
special education teacher for

766
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:07,200
for many years.
So I was like thinking about

767
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,000
that.
And then, you know, other people

768
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,040
when they talk, not that this is
the end all be all reason, but

769
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,600
you know, they say in a public
school system, you just get

770
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:19,960
exposure to the community.
It's not as like cookie cutter

771
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,400
to where you just get, you know,
not that this is a maybe this

772
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,960
could be a bad thing too, but
just experience dealing with

773
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,160
different kinds of people versus
a small slice of society.

774
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,200
You're kind of restricted home
schooling is the ultimate

775
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,080
version of that where you're
really restricted, right, where

776
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,440
you don't really interact as
much as you would in a, in a

777
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,320
public school probably.
And I would say at Northwood, we

778
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,280
have a very diverse student
population.

779
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,960
One of the reasons that I like,
was really adamant that I wanted

780
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,200
to get there and wanted to get
my kids there.

781
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:55,840
Back in 20/17/2018 when I was
looking for a change, the

782
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,160
diversity of the student
population was one of the things

783
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,560
that I was like that I, I want
my kids in this diversity.

784
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,880
Like I want them to to be able
to interact with people from

785
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,960
lots of different backgrounds
and ethnicities and, and really

786
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:15,320
kind of have that.
Multiple kind of slice of life

787
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,840
view from different people and
it it brings its challenges, but

788
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:21,440
they're good.
They're good challenges to have

789
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:22,720
to work.
Through No, I like I like that

790
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:25,240
you said that because sorry,
Claire, my voice.

791
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,840
That's one reason we we went
from homeschooling to private

792
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:29,840
school.
I've really had a great

793
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,080
experience Northwick for that
exact reason.

794
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,280
And you know, I think people it
is.

795
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,040
It cuts both ways.
People on the homeschool side of

796
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,800
things might say there's a lot
of wasted time in the school

797
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,040
system when you get done with
everything.

798
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,000
But at the same time, my
experience in life is that I've

799
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,520
heard it said, you know, life is
a giant crew project me learn me

800
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,760
having a bad teacher in high
school was actually probably

801
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,920
good for me because I'm not a
bad manager in real life.

802
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,600
And sometimes when you cut that
out, you can be more efficient.

803
00:40:56,240 --> 00:40:58,000
But it's good to work with
adversity.

804
00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:59,440
Things aren't things aren't
perfect.

805
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,280
So it's like it cuts both ways,
maybe less efficient, but you

806
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,880
learn dealing with obstacles and
going through processes, not

807
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,800
that they're always the best or
whatever.

808
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,160
Yeah.
So it's another bullet point

809
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,720
that I have for the private
school is this development of

810
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:15,280
community and this development
of social capital.

811
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,640
And so there is something
significant about learning in a

812
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,040
community that is somewhat
larger and somewhat diverse.

813
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,760
But then there, but then the
smaller class sizes still give

814
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,840
us this chance that I can, I can
see one of our middle school

815
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,920
students walking down the
hallway and I can tell from

816
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:35,840
their face if there's something
wrong.

817
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,840
And I can, I can pull that kid
aside and go, hey, like what's

818
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,280
going on today?
Is there anything that I can

819
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,960
help you with?
And it that's just that is just

820
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:48,240
something that we have a mandate
to be about at a school like

821
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:52,240
like Northwood, where the
students are in this kind of

822
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,080
this kind of net of social
connections that is healthy for

823
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:58,680
them.
It's a community that is good

824
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,640
for them.
And I know come back to to talk

825
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,480
about Matt Gilbert.
He, he went to North Northwood

826
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,840
as a student and he, he can tell
you stories about days that he

827
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:15,480
was in the hallway and one of
his administrators just just

828
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,640
felt something wasn't right and
pulled him in and had

829
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,840
conversations and, and worked
with him.

830
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,200
And that is a, a beautiful thing
that we get to do for students

831
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,200
to have that kind of social
capital being built up in this,

832
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,400
this safe community.
No, I'm.

833
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,240
I'm.
Amazed this talk positively

834
00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:32,480
about Northwood.
It's like I walked there like

835
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,160
there's like 50 different
teachers and kids, like yelling

836
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,080
out Jayden's name and like
people know him.

837
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:42,120
And then even like I barely work
with, you know, I've barely seen

838
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,920
Miss Van Dusen or Coach Steele,
these people, but they're like,

839
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,440
hey, Zach, how's it going?
I see them like once every four

840
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:48,200
weeks.
Like, how are you?

841
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,000
Like remembering all these
parents names and things.

842
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:51,480
I've been really impressed with
all that.

843
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,600
I can run down a couple of.
Remember you and Jayden because

844
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,600
Jayden pulled the fire alarm
when he was like 2 years old

845
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,200
during basketball.
Oh, yeah, I can't.

846
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,920
I can't remember.
I I let my someone watch my kid

847
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:02,960
while I was coaching.
Who was it?

848
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:04,120
What's her name?
Chloe.

849
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:07,840
Chloe Yeah, that's that's
actually.

850
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,680
A good point.
I think we need that story on

851
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,080
the podcast.
Maybe if Chloe's ever.

852
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:14,760
On podcast, that could be the
first.

853
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,680
Side of it, yeah, that's good.
So a couple of other things that

854
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,560
as as far as advantages in the,
in that private school,

855
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,520
Christian School world, our
percentage of extracurricular

856
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,000
participation, there is
something for every single

857
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,720
student to do.
Now we talk about, you know,

858
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,280
extra opportunities in the
public sector.

859
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,440
And I think that I think the
variety is probably wider in the

860
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,480
public school system because
they have funding for lots of

861
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,800
different things.
But I will say the last time we

862
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,400
ran the numbers, we had
something like 88% of our

863
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,280
students in the Upper school at
Northwood Academy participating

864
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:48,800
in some kind of extra
curricular.

865
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,000
And that might have been an art
club, that might have been

866
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:52,720
archery, soccer, football.
I I.

867
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,200
Just I was going to say it,
probably not chess.

868
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:55,840
Club.
Probably not.

869
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:57,200
That's a waste of time.
Probably not.

870
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,080
You got to bring in that that
participation money.

871
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, and I was Speaking of chess.

872
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,520
I was taking a little listen to
one of the recent podcasts

873
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,600
there.
There's a quote that there was a

874
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,440
pawn and a checkerboard.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

875
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:14,960
Unbelievable.
That, I mean, Joe read, I mean,

876
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,920
it wasn't Joe's quote.
He just read a quote from

877
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,360
someone else.
And it was like, you know, is it

878
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,400
sometimes when you're reading
through the sovereignty God, it

879
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,440
might feel like we're all just
pawns on a checkerboard.

880
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,160
And I was like, this is crazy.
Maybe the point was life doesn't

881
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:27,240
make sense.
Maybe it was.

882
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:29,640
Something deeper, the metaphor
in there.

883
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,560
I just thought it would make
Michael really angry just to see

884
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:33,600
that I was like it.
Doesn't.

885
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:36,800
Make sense?
The other things freedom to

886
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,840
integrate biblical worldview.
Really, it's not just freedom to

887
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,440
do it, it's a mandate.
Like we're we tell our teachers

888
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,680
this is one of your primary
roles.

889
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,200
It's easy to intrigue.
This to yeah, it's to help

890
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,440
students see the this holistic
view of their discipline in

891
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,320
light of a Christian worldview.
And then there's also a freedom

892
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,400
from from isolating and
emphasizing certain state

893
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,560
standards that just have to be
checked off the list for state

894
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,200
testing so that a school gets
funding from those test scores

895
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,560
like that.
We we have a freedom from that

896
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,760
in the private school.
Now, there are also drawbacks.

897
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,440
You do run the risk of some less
qualified teachers because

898
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,240
there's not the same
requirements for a private

899
00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:22,800
school hiring and, and it can
vary from school to school.

900
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,040
Generally it's a, it's a degree
in the content area that you're

901
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,840
teaching that you have to have,
not an education degree.

902
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,480
Now I'm an example of that.
I had an English degree and went

903
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,200
on to have some great mentors
and then develop the skill set

904
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:42,200
to, to do teaching.
But it does, it does open the

905
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,080
door for some less qualified
teachers.

906
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,880
Although I will say this goes
the other way too.

907
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:53,080
Not every teacher that gets a
degree in education is qualified

908
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:54,600
because they got a degree in
education.

909
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,800
It doesn't just follow.
A lot of it is just made in the

910
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,520
classroom.
A lot of it is made by good

911
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:06,200
mentors and and from the teacher
being willing to be a student

912
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,880
for the rest of their lives.
If the teacher is not learning,

913
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,200
the students are not learning
and that's a major, major best

914
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,720
practice for teachers.
There's also the expense to

915
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:16,280
parents.
Private schools.

916
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,560
My kids would not be able to
attend private school if I

917
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:19,880
didn't teach at a private
school.

918
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,480
It's just it's, it's, it's
expensive.

919
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,160
Yeah, I think about that and
it's like, man, if you're in a

920
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,560
position where you're 2 girls.
Where you have 5 girls.

921
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,760
Yeah, I went for Thank Goodness,
boys, where it's like if you're

922
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,480
in a position where you're
picking between public school,

923
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,240
private school and home school,
that's a good place to be

924
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:40,480
because not everyone has that
option.

925
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,400
And we're my family.
We've got four boys.

926
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,480
We're at a crossroads.
We can support two boys at a

927
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,720
private school.
We can't really support more.

928
00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:52,360
So it's it's like, oh, it's
really a tough, a tough thing.

929
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,480
And you think about like, yeah,
that is a that is a sacrifice

930
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,120
and it is expensive and we've
had a great experience, but.

931
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,280
That maybe, maybe there's
employment opportunities for

932
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,480
Leanne in the future with her
education background.

933
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,480
And that's and so any remember
what we said bad about

934
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,160
northward.
Can you edit that out is that in

935
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,280
case this goes out?
Just kidding, but yeah, that

936
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,880
that I think that's a man that
that's a tough one where

937
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,880
sometimes homeschooling is more
of an option because you can do,

938
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,080
it's still not nothing, but you
can do that for less expensive

939
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,120
and.
Then just two other things that

940
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,600
sometimes at a private Christian
School you have some of these

941
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,800
kind of draconian rules that
have lasted in handbook.

942
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,920
Sometimes it's dress code thing,
sometimes it's, it's other types

943
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,760
of rules and handbook policies
that have stayed around.

944
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,720
I do have to say, I think I
think Northwood has done a good

945
00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:42,080
job of walking that line between
having them.

946
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:44,560
You know, you, you have to have
standards.

947
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,440
It's that, it's that broken
window principle.

948
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,480
If you, if you slip on some
standards, a lot of behavior

949
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,720
issues come from students
recognizing, oh, these policies

950
00:47:55,720 --> 00:47:58,960
aren't being policed.
And so it, it's, it's a very

951
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,600
slippery slope.
And so you really do have to set

952
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,960
a hard line somewhere.
Sometimes it's difficult to

953
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,280
decide where that is.
I will say our draconian cell

954
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,040
phone policies are being adopted
by the state of South Carolina.

955
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:16,600
By law, every every educational
institution is seeing the

956
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,160
benefit of getting phones out of
the hands of students during

957
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,320
instructional time.
That's something private schools

958
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,160
have been on top of for a long.
Time.

959
00:48:25,240 --> 00:48:27,560
That seems like a very common
sense thing because I think we

960
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,280
were watching the news story and
my kids or hearing something.

961
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,400
My kids are like, wait, what?
How?

962
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,680
How do they have phones?
Like, well, not all the schools

963
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,360
have rules like like you do.
So that was one of the big

964
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,640
battles that my wife fought when
she was teaching general

965
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,440
population is you have 35
students in a classroom.

966
00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:46,000
Half of them have earbuds in and
the other half were kind of

967
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,000
texting each other on the side.
And like you're trying to,

968
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,760
you're trying to give
instruction and then have them

969
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,400
work in small groups and then
work with a group yourself and

970
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,880
and it's phones are everywhere.
You see the viral videos of like

971
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,040
the like teacher, like grabbing
it and just throwing it and of

972
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,760
course now they're fired.
But you can understand why

973
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:04,960
they're frustrated.
Like they're given all they

974
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,360
have, they're trying to
communicate, and they're just

975
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,880
not getting any respect or any
type of interaction.

976
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,120
Well, and we're now we're on the
cusp of all of the studies, like

977
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,040
longitudinal studies that are
being done about the effects of

978
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,480
social media and cell phones,
especially on tweens and teens.

979
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,040
Like we're it now that the data
is, it's kind of, it's been the

980
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:28,160
Wild West for the past 20 years.
We're but now the data is

981
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:32,600
catching up and people are not
able to ignore the kind of

982
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,520
mental health crisis that that
the proliferation of social

983
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:40,960
media has had on students and
the impact and lost educational

984
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,000
time from having cell phones in
classrooms.

985
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,880
Like so all the data is now
catching up and we're going, oh,

986
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,960
no, we better regulate this.
So, so our our private Christian

987
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,040
School cell phone policies are
now catching statewide.

988
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:55,400
Yeah.
It's probably like smoking or

989
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,040
something.
It's like we all do it and now,

990
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,440
like the data is overwhelming
where it's like, actually,

991
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,600
that's Speaking of draconian
rules.

992
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:06,200
I was born in the 90s but I went
to a private school in Kentucky

993
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,480
when I was in 3rd or 4th grade,
so.

994
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,280
You went to school in the 70s,
basically.

995
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:15,600
Yeah, exactly, I got.
So y'all went from Memphis to

996
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:16,440
Kentucky?
Yeah.

997
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,200
So my dad, he like did his
fellowship for a couple years

998
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:21,520
somewhere.
So we had to like move while he

999
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:25,520
was doing some of his training.
And so he worked at University

1000
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:26,880
of Kentucky for like two or
three.

1001
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:28,240
And then we went back to
Memphis.

1002
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:30,920
I got you and when I was like in
second or third grade or

1003
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,880
something I got disappointed.
I got spanked by the principal

1004
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,760
at a school as like 1/3.
Grader, I've been I've been

1005
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:43,280
spanked at at school twice.
Once was by a female junior high

1006
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,800
principal.
And I will tell you I I could

1007
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:51,040
give you my innocence in both of
these cases, it did not hurt.

1008
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,640
I felt I was embarrassed for
her.

1009
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:56,920
You're like, you're like, lady,
you got to give a little more

1010
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:58,320
than that name.
Here, I don't know if she it was

1011
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,760
like Miss Morgan.
I'm like, if you're if you're

1012
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,920
spanking people, it's got to be
better bring that stuff.

1013
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,840
It wasn't.
Maybe she knew that I was

1014
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:12,760
innocent and that's why science
teacher had one of the students

1015
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,480
marking tardies and in science
the nerd.

1016
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,400
That I I was stuck.
He is so passionate about it.

1017
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:19,600
I love it.
It's like sticking with.

1018
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:20,640
Me.
He's like, come on, the.

1019
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:24,640
Nerd that I am like I put my
stuff down I go up and I talk to

1020
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:29,200
Mr. Bird about science like I'm
talking to him about classroom

1021
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,040
stuff and then he'll be like OK
we're about to start and I go

1022
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,400
sit down.
So unbeknownst to me, I've got

1023
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,880
like 5 tardies on the books
because.

1024
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,400
Someone's been joining me to
her, There's like, you're not in

1025
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,680
your desk, right?
Yeah, even though I was there.

1026
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:47,320
So anyways, but then I got
another paddling by a coach

1027
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,040
that'll I'll say that one left
the whole sting, Yeah.

1028
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,160
That'll leave the.
One that left the sting again.

1029
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,920
I'll I was innocent in that case
too.

1030
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:56,600
Of course you didn't know Wrong,
no?

1031
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,040
No, no, no.
There are things I probably did.

1032
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,040
There are things I did that I
probably should have gotten a

1033
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:02,200
paddling.
For so it was just catching

1034
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:03,760
those two.
Were not those two were not but

1035
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:05,680
I.
Just caught that you were

1036
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,520
embarrassed for.
Like you did you apologize to?

1037
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:10,640
I'm sorry, that was not good.
Oh man.

1038
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:14,880
Yeah, so I I went to the school
that my dad taught at in from

1039
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,360
kindergarten to 8th grade and he
taught 3rd and 4th grade.

1040
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:23,040
And when I got in trouble at
that school, he got called to

1041
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:23,280
the.
Office.

1042
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,320
Oh man.
And so I think he paddled me

1043
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,240
once in the office.
I think the principal might have

1044
00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:30,360
done it one time too.
But yeah, that was that was a

1045
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:32,360
different time.
Different time, yeah.

1046
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,560
Yeah.
So real quick, while we're

1047
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:39,600
wrapping up, I did have this
question for you about so I've

1048
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,800
I've heard, and I'm sure you're
familiar, but just in case, I

1049
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:44,480
don't want to, you know, play
something chump.

1050
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:49,000
But the trivia model of learning
that says like younger,

1051
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,800
basically elementary grammar
stage of learning sponges that

1052
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:54,200
kind of memorize a whole lot of
stuff.

1053
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:59,160
Middle school logic phase where
they are like putting rules and

1054
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,040
stuff together.
Then high school's the rhetoric

1055
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,120
phase where they're like
learning how to defend and

1056
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:09,760
exchange ideas and stuff.
I think that's generally makes

1057
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,880
sense.
Was that any part of your

1058
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,400
teaching?
Is that something that genuinely

1059
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,120
they try that you've seen people
try to follow or is that kind of

1060
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,600
all new or?
I don't think that we have a

1061
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,280
conscious effort to to be in
that.

1062
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:32,280
Now there are best practices
that work with different

1063
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,800
developmental stages.
And so there definitely are

1064
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,880
developmental stages where we
want to use a certain type of

1065
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,360
questioning more with this
developmental stage than this

1066
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,120
one.
So it's so for example, I mean,

1067
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,320
my, my last six years of
teaching is just all middle

1068
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,800
schools, all 7th grade and 7th
grade is it is an interesting

1069
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,920
time because it's, they're,
they're, they're really starting

1070
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,320
to have the possibility of
abstract thinking.

1071
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,840
Prior to that, there's really
not much of that going on it.

1072
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,400
They're just kind of dipping
their toes into abstract

1073
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,400
thinking.
And so if you tell a 7th grader

1074
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:11,560
like, OK, we're going to write a
research paper, it doesn't

1075
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:15,840
really make sense to them.
They focus more on, wait, I have

1076
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,960
to have these, this note card is
supposed to have this stuff on

1077
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,160
it.
And the source card is supposed

1078
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,760
to have this stuff on it.
They're, they're not building

1079
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:27,680
this composite model in their
minds of what the research paper

1080
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:29,760
is supposed to do.
They're still pretty, pretty

1081
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,920
task oriented.
Now you get some that are, that

1082
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,240
are moving into that abstract
thought.

1083
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,680
But having that kind of
understanding of where the

1084
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:42,480
different developmental stages
are for, for learning does

1085
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,600
change your practice.
And so like in 7th grade, I

1086
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:46,440
would, I didn't do a research
paper.

1087
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,800
There were three different
research assignments that

1088
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,280
scaffolded to, to meet those
skills that they were going to

1089
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,520
need when they go on to write a
research paper.

1090
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:02,160
But it, it definitely makes a
difference where the students

1091
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:07,120
are and, and at what level
they're, they are able to think

1092
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,960
abstractly before you start
working in some of those

1093
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:11,560
concepts.
And so I definitely think that

1094
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:16,280
there is a, there's a, a major
role for looking carefully at

1095
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:21,240
developmental stages and then
creating appropriate assignments

1096
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:25,480
and interactions based on those.
There's a great book called

1097
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:29,400
Nurture that is Christian.
And it's a series of essays,

1098
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:34,600
kind of doctoral style
dissertations on that very

1099
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:38,560
issue, developmental psychology
and children, developmental

1100
00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:41,400
stages and learning.
But it's done in a, in a

1101
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,800
Christian worldview, and it's a,
it's a great resource for that

1102
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,240
kind of topic.
Can I ask a follow up with that?

1103
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:52,560
I'm curious because I always was
kind of salty at my parents

1104
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:57,000
because I started school like my
birthday was at the cut off.

1105
00:55:57,240 --> 00:55:58,680
I was always the youngest in my
class.

1106
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:00,920
Like I had people getting their
driver's license before like

1107
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,200
they were turning 16.
I had, I was like just turning

1108
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:04,280
14.
It was like a big gap.

1109
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,280
And I mean, purely from a sports
perspective, I was like, man, I

1110
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,400
could have another year of being
great.

1111
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,840
I'd be older.
But you know, what's the

1112
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:13,400
thinking like in the sports
world?

1113
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,760
It's like, man, you hold your
kid back as far as much as you

1114
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,200
can.
And that is directly correlated

1115
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:19,360
to what?
So they're going to play sports

1116
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:20,560
in college.
If they're if they got a, if

1117
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,840
they're the oldest one in their
class, it goes up like 3

1118
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,720
hundredfold.
Like it's like, it's amazing the

1119
00:56:25,720 --> 00:56:27,240
difference.
I don't know about cognition,

1120
00:56:27,240 --> 00:56:28,400
that kind of thing.
If it's better.

1121
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:32,040
I know each child is different,
but you know, I don't know if

1122
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:33,640
there's any what.
Was the what was the question?

1123
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:34,760
Yeah.
Does that make a difference at

1124
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,680
all as far as like?
Do you see trends with age?

1125
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:44,880
So in it is very child specific.
Generally you can have students

1126
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:50,640
that are very well academically
prepared, even if they're on

1127
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,760
that younger, that younger side
of their class, they can be

1128
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,880
extremely academically prepared,
OK with the rigor, OK with the

1129
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,240
work level.
The, the thing that is generally

1130
00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:02,680
lagging behind is the emotional
maturity.

1131
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,160
And so we, we, you kind of watch
those students, if they are

1132
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:09,760
really on the younger side,
generally, if they have, if

1133
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,480
they've made the cut, they're
generally academically pretty

1134
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,000
solid and able to handle the
academic load.

1135
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:19,800
But you have to, you have to
nurture those kids just a little

1136
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,880
bit differently because usually
the, the social and emotional

1137
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,000
part is, is lagging behind the
rest of their peers.

1138
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,000
Because you have some peers that
are like 2 years older than

1139
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,280
them, potentially in that are
almost two years older than them

1140
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:35,040
in that same kind of grouping of
students.

1141
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:37,680
And so a lot of times it's it's
looking out for those ones

1142
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:42,520
because social emotional lags
behind academic a lot of times.

1143
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,680
That explains my emotional and
social problem.

1144
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:48,960
It all makes sense.
But you're super smart.

1145
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:51,840
What?
What you got something?

1146
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,280
What else is on your mind,
Jonathan, or things you want to

1147
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:59,960
add?
How about a joke that Michael's

1148
00:57:59,960 --> 00:58:02,160
going to maybe appreciate?
Yeah, let's hear, let's.

1149
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,840
I'm going to end on a joke.
So why did the two average kids

1150
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:07,480
get sent to the principal's
office?

1151
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:09,520
Oh, I know this I.
Already know it I.

1152
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:11,720
Know this I already know.
It does it start with an M?

1153
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:13,440
Yes.
OK, I don't know a lot about

1154
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,040
math, but it seems like there's
a mean mean.

1155
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:18,720
They yeah, they were being mean.
That's good.

1156
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:20,000
That's good, that's great.
That's.

1157
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:21,760
Great.
It doesn't make sense if you, if

1158
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,520
you come from an ELA background,
you have to look that up and I

1159
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:26,040
will.
I'm just going to be completely

1160
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:30,200
honest with you.
I googled average versus mean

1161
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:33,680
today so that I could edit that
joke a little bit so that there

1162
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,000
were two averages, because if
it's just one average, it's not

1163
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:37,720
going to work.
It's good.

1164
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:41,200
It's good.
What a great, what a great way

1165
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:45,680
to to wrap things up again, the
guest should, should close us

1166
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,160
out.
We we say, we look at the camera

1167
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,520
intensely.
And say that's our intensity.

1168
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:53,440
That's our take.
Oh.

1169
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:57,480
Love it, love it.
Thanks for listening to Take

1170
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,680
Two.
Find us wherever you find

1171
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:02,200
podcasts and on YouTube for
those who want to watch our

1172
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:02,880
video cast.