Pastor Greg Alderman Interview

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Zach.
Michael.

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We are starting a podcast and if
you are with us on YouTube,

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you'll notice it's different.
But if you are just listening in

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in your car, it may seem normal,
but it's not normal.

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Completely different.
Completely different.

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For us, we never had a live
audience.

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That's pretty nice.
Hopefully it's it might be the

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first and the last time, but we
we've got an an addition to our

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crew today that's gonna like
just take, take us up another

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level.
Where?

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All our eggs are in this basket,
Greg.

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We're counting on you to really
make this.

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Work.
All right, so welcome, Mr. Is it

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Mr. Greg Alderman, Dr.
Philosopher?

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Reverend.
Reverend, the Most Reverend

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High, Yes, very old.
All right, all right, all right.

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So we are here at the Men's
Retreat with CBC and out on a

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nice location at Folly Beach.
Yeah, got some turtle beats

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turtle on the the wall.
Shout out to Kathy Gillespie,

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that looks like good work.
So, Greg, you're gonna be

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talking to us about.
Perseverance, perseverance, and

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it's a great topic.
It is a great topic and so we

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had some trivia slash challenges
slash.

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Yeah, it hopefully this will be
exciting.

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I'm sure we'll have some good
participation.

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We wanted to give away a couple
of prizes, I think some really

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good resources.
We've got 4 copies of of this

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book, Disciplines of a Godly Man
by R Kent Hughes, and in

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addition to this book, we've got
some gift cards to go along with

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it.
Two of the challenges are really

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just trivia questions, so great
they'll be easy.

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The last two with the higher
dollar gift card might might be

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a little bit of a physical
challenge that illustrates

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perseverance alright, but I I
think this could.

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You wanna kick it?
You wanna is that Am I going out

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of order?
No, no, no.

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What?
What?

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What are you trying to?
Say, I thought you were gonna

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start yours when then I started
mine.

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Let's you wanna do Let's with
one of your like easy ones.

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Get it going, then we'll get
into the hard.

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Well, this is the I think it's
the easier 1.

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So we're talking about
perseverance.

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We're gonna talk about
perseverance, Lord of the Rings

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style.
So I, I, I mean, hopefully y'all

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are Lord of the Rings fans, but
there's a lot of perseverance

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demonstrated in Lord of the
Rings.

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So, so this is the first
question.

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Hopefully it's easy.
Hopefully someone gets it.

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Towards the end of Return of the
King, Sam says these words.

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Come, Mr. Frodo, he cried.
I can't carry it for you.

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But.
And fill in the blank.

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Raise your hand.
I can carry you.

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I can carry you.
There we go.

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There we go.
Nicely done.

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Very nice.
That was the easiest giveaway of

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the nights.
It gets a little bit harder, but

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this is good.
When I think of perseverance,

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you know, I think of, you know,
the biblical authors are calling

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us to persevere all the time.
Pay attention unless you drift

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away, don't neglect such a great
salvation.

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So many great books and passages
to to keep keep pressing on.

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And so this is more of a
physical challenge.

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I don't know if you walked in.
Oh, so Speaking of walking in,

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we've got someone walking in
here.

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We've got 2 pull up bars on
either on either doorway and

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part of perseverance.
When I think of it, I one of my

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favorite passages in Scripture
is this passage in first Timothy

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4 where Paul is writing to
Timothy and talks about what

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what's, what's it mean to be a
good servant of Jesus Christ and

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talks a lot about training.
Train yourself for godliness.

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Bodily training is of some
value, but godliness is a value

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in every way.
And so I, to me, I'm thinking

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it's good to train yourself to
be ready when perseverance

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comes.
And as a physical therapist, I

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see this all the time.
I go in and I evaluate someone

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and one of the easiest ways to
assess someone's overall

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functional health is to see how
strong their grip strength is,

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how long they can hold on to
something, how, how much force

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they can't exert.
And there's a lot of good

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research behind having a strong
grip and quality of life and,

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and, and so, so many other
things.

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So can I get a volunteer who
thinks they could just hang from

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a pull up bar?
All right.

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Yeah.
Come, come on up.

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Anyone else?
I want one more.

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If we have two, this will be
great.

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So we got 2 pull up bars.
We might see who can hang on

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longer even.
No other volunteer.

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Oh, the brothers.
The Gwyn brothers.

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Yeah, this is good.
So here, here are the rules.

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Take your boots off.
Yeah, that's a good, good advice

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from the back there.
If you can hang on for one

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minute, which you guys will
knock this out of the park, you

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will automatically win the
prize, which is a book at a

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$10.00 gift card.
If you beat the other person,

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you want a $25.00 gift card.
So there's a little more, little

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more incentive to hang on.
So I'm going to get a get a

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stopwatch out.
Are we running numbers?

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On who's going to win yeah who
we got I'm.

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Taking numbers right here.
This this, this will be good.

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I'm getting my stopwatch out.
Can we get one of y'all on this

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pull up bar over here?
We probably want to make it even

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and so I guess that's part of
the strategy.

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What kind of grip you want to
use you?

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Got numbers you got.
It nice.

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I I think I think this group
will do good.

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Are you guys ready?
If I give you guys a countdown,

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don't do it yet, but I'll say
ready, set, go, and then you

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just got to hang there.
Use that grip strength.

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All right, we're looking pretty
good ready, set and go.

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And so I thought this might take
a minute or two or maybe maybe

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longer. 2, two minutes is really
hard to do.

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If they can go for more than two
minutes, I will be impressed.

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That's a good benchmark to shoot
for.

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And so I thought I would drop a
little bit of knowledge.

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There was a really good study
about grip strength done in the

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early 2000's.
The study involved 142,000

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people, so a huge sample size.
And if you have a strong grip

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that that's, you know, norms for
your age and gender, If you have

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that, if it's weaker than that,
then your risk for all 'cause,

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mortality, dying of, of anything
goes up by 20% right out of the

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gates.
You're 2 1/2 times more likely

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to be hospitalized in the next
three months.

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You're more likely to have a
stroke or a heart attack.

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It's actually a better predictor
of a stroke or heart attack than

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systolic blood pressure, which
is kind of interesting.

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So you want you want that grip
to be strong.

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Once you lose that you lose the
ability to open things.

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You know, even you know, put on
your clothes and that kind of

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thing and you one minute weaker.
So where you guys already won a

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prize.
How we feeling?

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Let's check in looks looks good
over there.

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Not making a lot of noise.
Nathan, how you?

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Doing buddy.
I I like it.

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They can't see each other
either.

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So it's like, I don't know, you
don't want to give up.

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I like that a couple more stats.
These are these are different

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studies, but I think so
interesting that if you have a

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weak grip, you're 20 to 30% more
likely to have chronic pain, 1

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1/2 times more likely to be
clinically depressed, 27% more

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likely to have cardiovascular
disease, 14% more likely to have

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a cognitive impairment like
dementia, 20% more likely to

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have type 2 diabetes, and 50 to
60% more like likely to have pre

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diabetes or metabolic syndrome.
So me as a therapist, I go and I

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test someone's grip strength
right away because it it's more

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of a correlation than causation,
but it gives you some insight on

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how healthy someone is and if
you want to hit that strength.

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These guys are healthy.
These guys are strong, they've

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got good grips, feeling pretty
good.

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We're just we're hitting the
two-minute mark, which is good.

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Two minutes.
That's really good.

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And they look like they could go
all day.

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We might have to.
Well, maybe we do this while

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they're going.
Let's ask another question.

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Another trivia question.
OK, so this is another

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perseverance Lord of the Rings
style.

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That's all right.
You made it over 2 minutes.

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That's great.
That's great.

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And he's still going oh, oh, did
you laugh it so you we we can

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see with his current.
We'll just add a few.

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Seconds.
Add a few.

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Add 20 seconds.
OK, while he's still going in

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one of the most epic feats of
endurance, Aragorn, Gimli, and

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Legless run nearly nonstop in
order to save their companions

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Mary and Pippen.
That that was pretty good.

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We we were at the three minute
mark.

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That's good.
That's good.

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That's good. 253 so like 213 and
then 253.

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Yeah, and, and really, I mean,
they have clinics popping up

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like these anti aging, like for
physical function.

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And this is one of the tests
they'll do.

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And they really try to get you
over 2 minutes as their goal.

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They say, man, if you could do
that, you're you're likely to

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age.
That keeps you strong as you

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age.
So you guys got a little while

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to go before you're aging, but
that's good.

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Stay strong.
All right.

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All right, so do I need to start
the question over again?

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We all focused.
On that.

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OK.
All right.

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In one of the most epic feats of
endurance, Aragorn, Gimli, and

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Legless run nearly non-stop in
order to save their companions

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Mary and Pippen across the plain
of Rohan in three days.

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How far did they run?
I'll take the closest answer.

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So if you want to wager a guess,
how far do you think they ran?

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I'll take it in leagues, which
is what Jr.

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Tolkien gave us.
Or miles.

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Leagues.
Or miles.

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Wow.
This is honestly, hearing

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Michael talk so much about Lord
of the Rings every week.

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That's perseverance.
It's perseverance.

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Yeah, it's too much.
Any Anyone want to wage your

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guest, Danny?
80 miles.

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Anyone else want to wage your
guest?

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Yeah, 30 miles 3. 7.23 days.
I like the exactness. 90A. 100.

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747 101 Seven point two 127 One
10110 2020 we're.

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Doing.
Miles, miles, miles.

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OK anyone else want to do a
guess?

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57.299 Oh man, are you 8000 and
80?

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Sounds good to me.
OK, Going once, going twice, 45

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leagues or 135 miles, Joel, I
think you got.

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Who got who got who?
Said one.

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Who said 110?
Someone said 110.

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I did.
There you go.

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There you go.
Good job.

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All right.
All right, that that was kind of

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the warm up part of the podcast.
Normally we kind of start off

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with a little bit of, you know,
talking that kind of thing, and

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then we say this pivotal phrase.
Now I'm going to ask Greg if he

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will say because it really just
kicks off and gets us into the

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meat of the.
Process.

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There's the phrase right there.
Let's take this to the next

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level.
There we go.

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From the hearts of the Low
Country in South Carolina.

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It's the Take Two podcast where
we take theology to the next

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level.
We'll get to the good, good part

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Now kind of dive into our
interview with Greg.

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You're going to kick us off,
Michael.

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Yeah, So, Greg, I've known you
for a long time as an

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acquaintance.
I remember you coming and

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preaching for us.
We learned about Pig Pig Suey

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from you.
Oh, yeah, Yeah.

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Remember that?
Yeah.

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I I, you know you, you probably
don't.

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How many years ago was this?
It was like 2000 and five 2004.

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It was a.
Long time ago.

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First, first case of suicide,
right?

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That's right.
Yeah.

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When the when the pigs ran over
the edge so.

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And the first instance of
Deviled Ham.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nice.

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But, you know, we may not know
the deeper side of who Greg is.

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So we wanted to ask some
questions and we thought that

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maybe you could just maybe give
us your testimony, how you came

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to know Christ.
Was there a defining moment?

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Did you?
Were you raised in a Christian

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home or not?
Kind of tell us about that.

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Yes, I could probably say that
of all the people who had the

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most idyllic childhood, it would
be me.

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God bless me in so many ways.
Perhaps he knew I would not have

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the endurance or ability to
overcome something different,

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but wonderful parents, wonderful
grandparents, wonderful

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environment in churches where I
heard the truth of the gospel

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from a very young age.
Again, a a great blessing for me

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00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:22,080
surrounded by truth and the
defining moment when I came to

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know Christ was when I was is in
October of 1969, just as a young

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man and I had a stomach ache.
I was brought to Christ on the

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heels of a terminal stomach
ache, which I thought was

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terminal.
I thought I was going to die.

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It wasn't that bad, but you know
when you're 8 and I was lying in

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my bed at night and I was afraid
because I knew that I was a

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Sinner.
I was telling someone earlier

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that now my favorite, the
favorite thing for my grandkids

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00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:03,040
to hear are the stories from
when I got a spanking which

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00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,160
chronicled the darkness of my
heart as I was growing up.

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Because I got a plethora of
spankings and I did not need any

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proof that I was a Sinner.
But I was scared to go to sleep

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that night because I thought
this pain would lead to my death

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and in my imminent demise.
I yelled for my mom and she came

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in and knelt beside my bed.
And I was troubled because I

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knew Christ died for me.
I knew that I was.

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00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:36,600
I knew that I needed forgiveness
for my sin, but I wasn't exactly

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sure how to go about talking to
God about it.

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And my mom spent time with me
that night and I cried out to

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the Lord on my deathbed.
And so fear of hell was

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something that motivated me in a
way that pushed me into the

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grace and the the relationship
with Christ, which I understood

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a little bit at 8.
And I've grown to appreciate and

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love and cherish more as I've
grown into what I understand

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more about what really happened
that night, which was really

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00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:14,920
neat.
But it's was a childlike faith

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on my deathbed at 8 years old.
Yeah, I what I like about that

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story too, is just I'm sure the
family you were in, you probably

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heard the gospel a lot that you
knew it knew it well, family

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that would that would discipline
you when you did things wrong.

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And you know, and and God using
all these different

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circumstances to bring you to
him.

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So that that's when you were
eight.

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As you grew up, got older at
ABC, what led you to want to

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pursue Christian college?
How has that shaped your

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00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:44,800
ministry?
What?

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00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,640
What all went into that?
I love talking about this.

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And the neat thing about growing
up where I was near Beckley, WV

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was that nearby was Appalachian
Baba College.

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00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,040
One of the requirements of every
student at Appalachian Baba

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00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,480
College is to be involved in a
local church near the campus.

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00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,880
So we were to we had what was
called required Christian

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00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,120
service, so it wasn't an option
for the students.

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00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:16,040
We had to to be a part of a
local body and we had to have

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00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,040
skin in the game.
We had to be involved in some

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00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,680
type of ministry.
So over the years as we were

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00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,320
growing up at Mount Tabor
Baptist Church, at Grace Gospel

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Church, where my two primary
churches growing up there, every

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00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:36,840
year we saw coming into our
congregations ABC students.

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To me as a young man growing up
as elementary, middle school,

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and later as a high schooler, I
was so impressed by these

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students.
I just couldn't, can't tell you.

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They seemed to like the
pinnacle.

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I mean, they were, they were
young, vibrant, their whole

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00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,160
lives ahead of them.
And what were they doing?

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00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,960
They were studying to serve God.
They loved the Lord.

303
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,680
They were the men and the women
were just so committed.

304
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They were going to give their
lives to serve the Lord.

305
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,319
And as I was growing up, and
this is honest, there was

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nothing I wanted to be more than
them.

307
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I wanted to be them.
I watched their lives.

308
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I watched what they laughed at.
I watched what they committed

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to.
And then as I got old enough to

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00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,800
go to Alpine Bible Camp, which
was staffed totally by

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00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,040
Appalachian Baba college
students, I would have these

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00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:37,600
these counselors that were a
part of, they were leading my

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cabin and they were committed to
God.

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And I just wanted to be like
them.

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I just wanted to be them.
So when I got old enough to

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consider going to a college, I
applied to 1 college Appalachian

317
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,800
Bible college, all because I
wanted to be something like

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these people who influenced my
life in such a godly way, in

319
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,600
such positive ways.
The example they set for me

320
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:07,040
really laid out a pattern and I
hope that I've been true to that

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00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,880
on and that's that was what kind
of pulled me in.

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00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:14,160
And there was and you talk about
calling.

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00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:20,840
Their calling was so true and so
legitimate and so real.

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00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,960
It pulled me too.
And when I saw their life, I

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00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,480
just, I thought God, could you
use me like you're using them.

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00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:38,320
And so my path was laid out and
I was pulled into it, and my

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00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:44,880
calling became real at Alpine
Bible Camp when I surrendered my

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00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,920
life to serve the Lord in a in a
full time way, giving as much as

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00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,280
I could to that.
So did you have an idea before

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00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,960
going to ABC that you might be
in full time ministry?

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00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,040
Or is that something that while
you're at ABC that you're like,

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00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:00,600
OK, this is what I want to do
full?

333
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,240
Time.
No, I was around 15.

334
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,200
I was a high schooler, and it
really came down to a challenge

335
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:11,440
at one of the one of the
campfires, as traditional as

336
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,000
that sounds, at the end of a
week of camp when the speaker

337
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,240
just challenged young people to
think about what are you going

338
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,320
to do with your life.
I could not think of anything

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00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,480
greater to do with my life than
to serve God.

340
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,920
So I committed to do that a
couple of years before coming to

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00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,520
the school.
But I knew the school would have

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00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,640
a big part in training me and
launching me toward those

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00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,400
pathways, so I knew it before.
Did you always think that you're

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00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,960
going to be a stateside pastor
or did you ever think maybe he's

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00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,240
calling me to overseas missions
or did was there ever a

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00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,720
question?
And if so, how did you kind of

347
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:53,160
navigate those questions?
I was sure of the direction, I

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00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:57,840
wasn't sure of the path or the
destination, but I knew that God

349
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would lead, and He does.
God leads us if we, I think if

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00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,280
we commit to the path and commit
to the journey.

351
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,360
I believe God nudges us along
the way, and that happened when

352
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:13,840
I was in school.
I felt nudged toward pastoral

353
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:20,920
ministry, and I didn't
necessarily care where, whether

354
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,520
it was overseas or whether
stateside, but God did open up

355
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,080
opportunities and God got laid
out.

356
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:33,520
What seemed to be clear guidance
along the way to where I just

357
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:39,880
kind of fell in to that and try
to follow those nudgings of the

358
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,720
Lord.
You know what, when I, when I

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00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,240
think about what, what you're
saying and, and try to think

360
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,320
about this theme of
perseverance, it's just to me,

361
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,480
it's so important.
You were placed in a godly

362
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,120
family.
You had family members pushing

363
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:54,800
you in the right direction.
You looked at those, you know,

364
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,120
people from ABC in that camp.
And it's, it's not like what I'm

365
00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:01,320
trying to say is I think it's so
important for, you know, all of

366
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:02,440
us, it's important to show up at
church.

367
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,160
It's important to be a member of
the church involved because of

368
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,960
your influence on other people.
It's not me trying to persevere

369
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,560
on my own, but it's God's work.
And then it's amazing, just the

370
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,000
fellowship aspect, how God even
kind of going through your life

371
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,800
is using all these different
aspects.

372
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,560
We can look back over 40 plus
years.

373
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,640
It's like man, seeing all these
benchmarks.

374
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,080
I was talking with Pastor Joel
earlier and he was kind of

375
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,480
recounting his, his schooling
and, you know, Michigan State,

376
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,320
the Prairie Bible College and
the seminary and just following

377
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,920
God, committing to that journey
and then how God opens up doors

378
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,800
and, and works.
And I was also inspired by at

379
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,760
the school.
I'm sure Pastor Joel could

380
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,560
account for this too as well.
Other of you all I know have had

381
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,640
some of that type of training,
but we would have speakers come

382
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:55,240
in and these were like graduates
of the school or real servants

383
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,160
of the Lord who had served God
for half a century.

384
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,680
I mean, you guys in their 70s,
you know, that would come in and

385
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,280
they would speak to us young
aspiring servants.

386
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,360
You know, we're serving in our
way, but we have a lifetime

387
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:11,720
ahead.
And I remember sitting there

388
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:17,320
thinking, could I be them?
Would I have what it takes to

389
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:23,240
come back in my 60s or 70s and
say to a generation of students

390
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,320
yet unborn that it is worth it,
It can be done.

391
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,960
Follow God fully with and give,
give all.

392
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,640
And God can bless that.
And I was afraid when I listened

393
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,560
to these men that I would.
I would be unworthy of the

394
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,080
journey.
I may not be able to see it

395
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,200
through, but God has been
faithful.

396
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,920
I haven't always been faithful.
I've stumbled and made a mess of

397
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,840
things sometimes, but but God
has seen me through.

398
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,480
And now as I stand in the place
of those men, I can look back

399
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,680
and say, yes, God sustains his
people and gives them the

400
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,000
ability, but I wanted to be like
them as well.

401
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,160
I've been surrounded by such
good examples, a great cloud of

402
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,800
witnesses, I guess in a way.
Speaking of stumbling, our next

403
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,720
question happens to be, was
there ever a big challenge or

404
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,600
something that you regretted?
And you look back, you know,

405
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,440
like this is what I learned from
and maybe something that the

406
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,440
rest of us can learn from.
Yes.

407
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:33,440
Would you be willing to share?
No, Yeah, I'll give you one of

408
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,880
the most recent and this will
tell a little bit of my story

409
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,600
too, Zach.
I, after about 40 years of

410
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,280
pastoral ministry, I did feel
the need to, to get some more

411
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,480
filling in, of the gaps in my,
in my toolkit.

412
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:57,320
When COVID hit, it was, it was a
real shaking of our community.

413
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,680
I buried a lot of people in
COVID.

414
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:03,080
It was hard.
And, and I felt there was a real

415
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:08,160
gap in my ability to help those
who've been traumatized, those

416
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,600
who are dealing with grief and
dealing with loss.

417
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,440
I was so overwhelmed with it
that I felt like I need, I need

418
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,600
to understand this better.
So I actually left pastoral

419
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:25,160
ministry to go into training as
a healthcare chaplain and this

420
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,000
is called CPE, which is clinical
pastoral education.

421
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,680
And I went to Johnson City
Medical Center in Johnson City,

422
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:42,480
TN, a level 1 trauma center.
And for 15 months, 5, no, it'd

423
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:49,560
be hours and hours of in the
hospital with the traumas coming

424
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:56,040
in and also dealing every day
that I was on duty with some

425
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,040
type of grief.
And I had such good instruction

426
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,440
for Doctor Doug Dickens.
And he, he was at the time about

427
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:09,240
75 and was pouring into me these
things.

428
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,720
And one of the things, this is
my thing that I regret.

429
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:16,240
I didn't know how to listen to
people.

430
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,200
And in Bible college, and I know
that they don't say this, but in

431
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:26,000
my mind, my impression was OK,
you go and you get answers for

432
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,120
things so that when people ask
you questions, you can help them

433
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,960
and give them instruction or
meet the challenge of what

434
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,680
they're dealing with.
So what I did for about 40 years

435
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,840
of ministry was when people were
talking to me, I was formulating

436
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,960
an answer.
And I'm so embarrassed to to say

437
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,560
that in front of you guys.
I'm really embarrassed because

438
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,720
I'd never learned how to listen
until I became a chaplain.

439
00:25:53,880 --> 00:26:01,840
And I learned that I had
preempted people's ability to

440
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:07,120
fully layout the content of
their heart, the fears of their

441
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:12,440
soul, and the directionless path
that they were on because I was

442
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,280
too busy wanting to talk.
And when I learned to stop, I

443
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,800
learned about body language.
I never thought about it, but

444
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,160
when people are talking to you,
they're telling you things with

445
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:29,880
their bodies didn't know.
And then I started seeing it and

446
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,800
where they were guarded or where
they were fearful or where they

447
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,920
were hesitant or went sometimes
when they were deceptive.

448
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:41,320
And it helped me to formulate
questions that would bring out,

449
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,320
lower their defenses, pull from
them, what they're really

450
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,360
feeling, what's really going on
inside.

451
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,520
And for 40 years, I didn't know
how to do that.

452
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:57,040
And I regret desperately not
knowing that.

453
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:02,080
And now I think it's made me a
better pastor because I've kind

454
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:08,080
of reentered pastoral duties.
It's made me a better man, maybe

455
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,600
a better husband.
It's made me able to really hear

456
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:19,240
people rather than give them the
quick answer theologically that

457
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:25,920
I think might help them.
And that's one of my great

458
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,880
regrets.
Thank you for sharing that's I

459
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,800
think that's good advice for.
That's great advice.

460
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,840
A lot of us who are in
leadership, because I think we

461
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,560
all may have that tendency to.
Even when you are listening,

462
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,400
you've got like your answer
running through your like,

463
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,080
you're not listening because
you're like thinking and

464
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,720
everyone says listen, but
that's, I mean that that's,

465
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,480
that's good advice from someone
who's been faithful in ministry

466
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,760
a lot of years.
And, you know, seeing that side

467
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:52,760
of thing.
I'm, I'm gonna skip down a

468
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,800
couple questions while we can
kind of come, come back up.

469
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,160
But you know, with all the the
changes and dealing with this,

470
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,400
you know, new side of things,
very emotional heavy, heavy

471
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,200
topics.
You know, how, how do you

472
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,800
maintain this balance between
the demands of ministry and in

473
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,920
personal life, family life?
How do you how do you find room

474
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,320
for all of that?
Well, first you have to develop

475
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,400
an empty nest.
OK, yeah, that helps out.

476
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:19,200
All right.
That's what I'm missing.

477
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,360
I'm like man, it's kind of crazy
right now.

478
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:22,960
I got 4 little boys running
around if you.

479
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,760
Find one of those.
You got to be OK, OK, No, it

480
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,440
was, it was hard.
But I think growing up in we

481
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,440
have, I have a son and a
daughter and what we found out

482
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,400
and with my wife Dream as well,
is we did ministry together.

483
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:43,360
So there was never a time, it
was rare that I was like out

484
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,160
from them.
But it was more serving with

485
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,000
them and on ministries of the
church.

486
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,320
I mean, we would do things
together.

487
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,280
They would be involved in the
things that we were involved in.

488
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,680
They developed similar interests
that we have.

489
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,400
Like both of them are very
musical and Dream is a wonderful

490
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,280
pianist and musical leader.
And they sang and did things

491
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,880
with us in choirs, youth group,
you know, as a youth pastor for

492
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,760
almost a quarter of a century.
So that was wonderful to pull

493
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,360
them in.
Today we do mission trips

494
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,440
together.
So there was a lot of ministry

495
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,800
togetherness in my family where
it wasn't either or, it was both

496
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,240
ends.
And to us that brought a great

497
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,840
commonality.
And it was a glue in our family

498
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,040
because they didn't feel like
that's something dad did without

499
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,280
them.
It's something dad did with them

500
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,120
and they with me.
And it's continued on in their

501
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,680
life.
Both of them are very ministry

502
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,240
minded.
And now they're going to, you

503
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,040
know, they're going to outdo me.
So, and we're seeing it now with

504
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:50,400
our grandchildren.
Judd and Leslie have 4 at home.

505
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,160
I'll show you a picture of them
tomorrow and just so happen to

506
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:59,440
have one and and they are great
at neighboring, which is

507
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,560
something goes.
It's kind of a a great concept

508
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,440
that I think has grown and
developed.

509
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:10,080
They minister to their the
surrounding communities and

510
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:15,080
there's a lot in Greenville, in
in the Overbrook area,

511
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,800
especially a lot of these young
families.

512
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,560
Everyone's having babies.
They had 10 days, 11 days

513
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,840
without power after the
Hurricane Helene.

514
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,040
And you know, they're cooking
stuff on the grill.

515
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,040
You know, they're having people
over to their home.

516
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:36,400
It's the mentality, I think that
was kind of seeped into them as

517
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,360
they were growing up.
It's just a natural overflow not

518
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,320
only of loving Christ, but of
caring for a community.

519
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,120
So I I hope that answered.
That's that's perfect, yeah.

520
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,960
As you look back on your life,
was there ever a point that you

521
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,600
would say you could see
significant sanctification in

522
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,040
your life?
Like man, I really learned a lot

523
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,440
about walking with the Lord
during this time.

524
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:08,320
And if so, maybe there are
factors that, you know, anything

525
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,360
that you would reflect on go
that you would think led to

526
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:17,800
that?
I would say the death of my

527
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:22,400
father at an early age.
I was 29 when my dad passed

528
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:28,520
away, but God gave me a great
gift in that I was able to be in

529
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,240
the room when my dad died.
My dad died.

530
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,640
If death can be glorious, it was
a glorious death.

531
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:41,160
Again, part of God's blessing on
me as a son.

532
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:48,080
My dad had had a a long battle
with cancer and he was at the

533
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,360
end of his life and and I had
come to Tallahassee, FL, which

534
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,480
is where he and my mom lived at
the time.

535
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,840
And being in the room, my dad
who had no energy, his body was

536
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,920
just done.
His eyes opened at the time of

537
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,960
his death and his eye, his eyes
were scanning the ceiling, eyes

538
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,200
darting back and forth, looking
and seeing something.

539
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,800
You know, I believe in, in
Ecclesiastes chapter 12, it

540
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,200
talks about the silver cord.
I think it's that transition

541
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,880
between earthly life and
heavenly life that sometimes is

542
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,800
experiential.
You can see it or sense it.

543
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,880
I believe I saw that at that
moment.

544
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,480
Nothing tangible, but I could
see my dad come alive.

545
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,040
A smile came over his face, and
my dad hadn't smiled in a long

546
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,720
time.
And then he says, I see the Lord

547
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:48,760
and I see everyone, and I'm
standing at the end of the bed

548
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,000
just praying that I do not screw
up this moment by doing so.

549
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:58,400
I was formulating an answer, you
know, as a pastor and I was I

550
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,160
just wanted to be still.
And it was quiet in the room.

551
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,440
My mom was whispering in my
dad's ear.

552
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,400
My aunt and uncle were standing
to one side and my my dad was

553
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:14,120
experiencing a going home.
And then once again he said, I

554
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,040
see the Lord, I see everyone, I
love everyone.

555
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:23,040
And it was as if you could feel
what's the song?

556
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,600
I feel the brush of Angel wings.
I see glory in this way.

557
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,480
Surely the presence of the Lord
is in this place and I could

558
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,040
feel that.
And then I went over to my mom

559
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,880
and I, I had my hand on my dad's
chest when he, when he took his

560
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:46,160
last earthly breath and inhaled
his first celestial breath and

561
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:51,360
the look on his face and how
real that was, I think, I think

562
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:57,640
God knew I needed to see it
because we speak of the glory of

563
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,240
following Christ and how
precious in the sight of the

564
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:02,960
eyes of God or the death of his
Saints.

565
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:09,000
And I saw it and and it's real.
It's it's not something

566
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,239
theoretical.
It's not something we think is

567
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,600
going to happen.
We hope is is tangible and

568
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:19,080
meaningful.
But I saw the going of a St.

569
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:24,320
into the presence of the father.
And if a hand would have come

570
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,360
out of the ceiling at that
moment and said, do you want to

571
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,080
go to?
I would have left my wife and my

572
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,600
children and every I would have
gone without thinking.

573
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:41,239
I would have gone and yet my
journey was still to go on.

574
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:50,159
But that moment really
galvanized the message that God

575
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:56,080
gives to us in my heart about
the reality of that place and

576
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,560
the reality of that relationship
and how important it is.

577
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:04,400
And my dad in doing that, not
only showed me how to live, but

578
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,920
he he showed me how to die.
I mean, what greater thing could

579
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,400
a son receive from a dad?
Amen.

580
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,200
Wow, that's amazing.
So yeah, was a moment.

581
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,400
That was a moment.
Yeah, that's, I'm sure that

582
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,920
equipped you well for what
you're what you're doing a lot

583
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,680
now with the chaplain side of
things and.

584
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,840
I want to.
Different.

585
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,080
Different direction a little bit
looking back on your experience,

586
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:34,640
you've been in the ministry for
for so long.

587
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,600
And I know things ebb and flow
and even maybe geographically

588
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:43,480
different challenges.
What, what do you see as one of

589
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,840
the greater challenges of the
church today?

590
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,760
What what do you think you see a
theme out there?

591
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,160
They're like, we're missing the
boat.

592
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,280
And this, this, this is
something that's just really a

593
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,360
big challenge for for the
Christian, for churches today.

594
00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:03,000
Yeah, and that's why we jumped
all over this theme of

595
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,400
perseverance.
If ever there's a time when

596
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:13,240
Christianity and what we believe
has been less appreciated and

597
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:19,440
valued in our culture, it's now.
There are few friends of of

598
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:24,400
Christians, of what we hold
dear, of what we think is true,

599
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,840
of what we build our life upon,
of what we structure our

600
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,520
families around, of how we
define this world that we live

601
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,440
in, our worldview.
It's never been under more

602
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,320
scrutiny and less acceptance
than now.

603
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,520
So I believe the challenge for
the church is to really be able

604
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:52,000
to set our minds and hearts to
lovingly defend and live this

605
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,360
faith that has been passed on to
us.

606
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,720
Generations before have paid
price, have paid great prices

607
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,280
for standing for God when it was
not popular.

608
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:09,240
It is becoming less popular.
Christians are being viewed not

609
00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:11,920
as part of the solution, but as
a part of the problem.

610
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:18,360
And we are going to have to
lovingly stand with courage in

611
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,000
the years to come.
No matter who wins the election,

612
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,760
it is going to be up to us to do
that.

613
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,560
And I believe one of the most
profound ways that this occurs

614
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:37,520
is with personal contact with
people only define that further

615
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,360
up.
We're living in a in an

616
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,120
automated society where people
are getting less and less

617
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,440
accustomed to personal
relationships.

618
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,280
We're becoming so distant.
You, you old guy, you're,

619
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,480
you're, you're not in your head.
You know, we're talking about

620
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,040
you.
Remember what neighborhoods used

621
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,800
to be like, where you'd walk
down the road and you'd see

622
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,000
people, you would talk to them.
You would, you would have

623
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,360
relationships with neighbors.
I have just gone.

624
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,080
Sugar from them.
Yeah, bar of sugar and other

625
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,720
things.
But we, I have lived in two

626
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,920
apartment complexes, highly
overpriced apartment complexes

627
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,960
in Asheville, NC for the past
two years.

628
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,080
We're and they're gigantic.
They, they have hundreds of

629
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,960
units.
I can't get people to look me in

630
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,160
the eye.
I mean, I irritate people

631
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,760
walking out to my car and they
will pass me walking their dogs

632
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,320
for whom they're about to bend
over and pick up all the

633
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,600
excrement and I'll say hello,
good morning.

634
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:43,760
People are so fractured and
unable or unwilling, crippled in

635
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,960
their ability to make personal
connections that the thing that

636
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:53,480
really is unusual and even
rebellious in this generation is

637
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:59,280
to forge relationships with
people by serving them, by

638
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,960
showing up in a time of crisis
like we're experiencing now in

639
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,680
North Carolina.
And what my church has found out

640
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:11,640
in the wake of Hurricane Helene
in the ravaged Spruce Pine,

641
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:18,840
Burnsville, NC area is that this
crisis has given us so many open

642
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:23,280
doors to connect with people in
a way that would never have

643
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:28,640
occurred because it's an it is a
gigantic open door for personal

644
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:32,920
relationships and ministry that
people are not going to forget.

645
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,560
And it is it is already having a
ripple effect in that ravaged

646
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,800
area.
And so as we've as a society

647
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:47,600
become more and more Facebooky,
you know, we need Christians to

648
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:52,120
actually have conversations and
relationships, face to face

649
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,880
contact and kindness and
courtesy ministry.

650
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,720
Because I believe it will become
so unusual that the impact of it

651
00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:04,600
is going to grow and grow.
I I, I like that you use the

652
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,600
word that's like it's rebellious
because people just, it's so

653
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,640
much easier.
I mean, even, you know, I'm

654
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,400
getting on my foot.
It's easier just to go through

655
00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:14,480
and check out online and then to
have to talk to someone.

656
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,520
But it's such a great
opportunity to stand out from

657
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,600
the culture in a amazing way.
This is not one of our

658
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,560
questions, but I was just
thinking about you're talking

659
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,080
about Asheville and you know,
the, you know, Helene, all this

660
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:31,720
stuff, anything, you know what,
what's going on there now with,

661
00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:35,880
with you've got family or
friends in that area right now.

662
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,120
How how are things faring or
what kind of things will we be,

663
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,560
you know, praying for that kind
of thing because it's, I know

664
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,960
it's proud on everyone's mind,
but it's, you know, more time

665
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,320
goes on.
I think it's easy to forget

666
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,640
about those kind of things.
You might have to limit me here,

667
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:52,200
OK, because I got a lot to say
the the area where my church is

668
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:56,400
at South Estato Baptist Church.
It's 8 miles up Route 80 from

669
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,880
Burnsville, NC.
One of these isolated roads,

670
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,400
South Toe River, which you can
see it from our church in the

671
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,880
South Toe River, ravaged the
neighborhood.

672
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,200
There was loss of life along the
South Toe down to Route 19 in

673
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:17,240
Burnsville, loss of homes, loss
of structures, vehicles piled up

674
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:22,760
around trees.
It was so fast and so furious

675
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,600
that people were astounded.
It was unprecedented.

676
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,880
So people who would never have
thought to take precautions

677
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,480
found their homes being swept
away.

678
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:37,720
One of one of our patients, one
of my Hospice patients in our

679
00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:42,040
area, the home swept away.
The lady's body was found near

680
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,320
the Chimney Rock area, which was
decimated.

681
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,680
And it was just, it was
unthinkable, the things that

682
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,720
were being seen.
Asheville had a tremendous loss

683
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:56,680
of life.
Somewhere between 50 and 70 in

684
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,920
Asheville died.
The end.

685
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:03,280
There's still many missing.
Some people, somebody's found in

686
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,920
Tennessee.
That's how so far how fast the

687
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:12,640
river was going.
We have we have mobilized

688
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,760
churches and this is where I'm
so proud.

689
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,600
I just can't tell you.
The churches in the area have

690
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:24,200
rallied to this to the point
where at the by the time federal

691
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,560
help came, they were almost
unneeded because people just

692
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,800
took upon themselves to help
their neighbors and the

693
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,880
distribution centers, mostly at
schools, which didn't have any

694
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,200
power or anything anyway.
So they became the repository of

695
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,760
the generosity of the nation.
I mean, it's the outpouring has

696
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,440
been phenomenal.
I can't tell you So that the

697
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,720
fact they had so many donations
and so many resources that they

698
00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:51,680
started farming it out to
churches.

699
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:57,640
So I know 15 churches within 10
miles of South Estito who have

700
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,680
become the distribution Centers
for their local communities for

701
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:06,160
much needed things.
Anything is needed everywhere

702
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,400
from camping stoves where they
can cook and and sleeping bags

703
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,080
and canned goods and toilet
paper.

704
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:18,400
I mean, it's just piled up
diapers and hygiene items,

705
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,560
medicines, those kinds of things
are easily gotten and easily

706
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,920
deliverable.
Some people are out.

707
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:30,040
They were put stuff on mules,
yes, mules to get up into some

708
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,280
of these hollers whose bridges
had been washed out.

709
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:36,320
And I mean, we're talking
hardcore ministry when you're

710
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,200
leading mules up the washed out
Creek to get to these people who

711
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,640
have no other way.
The redneck Air Force.

712
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,600
I was showing someone else here.
We had helicopters flying in

713
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,080
from everywhere.
There's got one in the, in the

714
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,600
Parsonage front yard of our
church, helicopters coming in

715
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,080
with needed resources just at
the day after.

716
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:00,040
It was just neat to see.
But the churches in the area,

717
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,880
I'm so proud of them and how
they're ministering and really

718
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:07,360
carrying water, so to speak, in
delivering help to these.

719
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,840
And, and they're resilient.
They're very resilient people.

720
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,640
They're great illustration of
perseverance.

721
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:18,640
And I'm going to allude to them
tomorrow a little bit, but

722
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,320
there's a lot to be done, don't
get me wrong.

723
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,000
But so much has been
accomplished and it's hard to

724
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,480
get these people down.
Greg, you talked about the

725
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:35,680
fracturing of society and that
being a challenge for us to

726
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,320
overcome.
And we just talked about this

727
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:44,400
natural disaster that's hit kind
of on the flip side, what kind

728
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,200
of a bright future things do you
look forward to?

729
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:53,280
What as you look out in the
future ahead of us?

730
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,600
What, what kind of is?
On the flip side, is that like,

731
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,040
you know, here's a, here's a
great thing that is occurring.

732
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,640
You know, we have, well, one of
the things that I'm encouraged

733
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:09,400
by is what we're doing here.
I believe a lot of times

734
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:15,280
Christians, what I would call
Bible believing Christians have

735
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,760
been real hesitant to enter into
the sphere of media.

736
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:24,280
And I see that as changing and
having Christians are having a

737
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,240
more aggressive, I mean, what
you're guys are doing, it would

738
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:30,120
be easy not to do this, but you
guys are going out of your way

739
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,600
to, to get truth and get
encouragement, real

740
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,080
encouragement out there.
I see that as a great trend

741
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:43,200
within, within Christianity.
I also see the the, the circling

742
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,360
back, as I've mentioned before,
I don't want to repeat myself,

743
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,240
but personal ministry, which
seems to be being lost is, I

744
00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:52,640
believe, being recaptured by the
church in a way at a higher rate

745
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,920
than any other group.
And I'm going to, I'm going to

746
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,400
make you guys laugh when I say
this, OK?

747
00:45:58,720 --> 00:46:03,840
Gosh, this ages me.
I do handwritten notes.

748
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,280
You guys remember handwritten?
What's that?

749
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,480
You would think that I invented
spirituality by writing a note

750
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,680
to somebody and they'll come and
they'll show it to me.

751
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,600
Hey, I got this from you.
It's a handwritten note.

752
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:26,480
You took time to think about me
and write something on paper and

753
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:31,680
send it to me.
Now, emails are great, emails

754
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,120
are fine.
I don't know, but there's so the

755
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:39,120
personal touch that it is just,
it's almost like old school

756
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:47,800
types of thinking are developing
a renewed and explosive value in

757
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:53,680
a, in a, in a less personal type
of society.

758
00:46:53,840 --> 00:47:03,680
Also, I am so glad that
Christian families are not

759
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,960
buying into a lot of the
philosophies of the world, for

760
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:12,200
instance, and we're getting off
here.

761
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,400
OK, You know you can edit this
if you want for instance.

762
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,400
We are and we're back.
No.

763
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,120
Like things like we're in a
crisis of low birth rate within

764
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:24,480
America.
I hear this all the time.

765
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,760
There's some, there's some
cultures that I mean, they're

766
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,600
fearful we're not going to be
able to replenish our society.

767
00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:34,440
And I know so many Christian
couples that are, are enjoying

768
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,600
their marriage.
They're having kids, you know,

769
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:42,160
more than the .8 children,
they're having a lot more kids

770
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,240
and they're raising these
children well in, in my own

771
00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:48,520
family.
And then the families I see that

772
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,040
are raising children, they're
not going in for aborting

773
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,320
children.
They're not going in for

774
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:59,920
children are a, a menace and a,
and a anchor to my life.

775
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,880
They understand the role that
God has given Christian couples

776
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,760
and the privilege of of having
children and raising families.

777
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,400
I see that as a tremendous
bright spot.

778
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:17,400
While secular society seems to
be destroying family and, and

779
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:23,360
completely trying to submarine
the thought of multiple children

780
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:31,680
and character building and what
that does in the legacy building

781
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,160
and the, and the future of any
society.

782
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:37,560
I see Christian families say,
hey, we're having kids and we're

783
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,560
going to raise them in the
nurture and admonition of the

784
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,560
Lord.
That is a future for a country.

785
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:46,080
And when I see that, I just, I
just so applaud that.

786
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:51,000
And I'm so proud of contemporary
families of childbearing age who

787
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,120
are embracing motherhood,
fatherhood, family life.

788
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,920
And I see that a lot and that.
Good, good work, Michael.

789
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:05,360
He's got five kids of his own.
So really Jonathan just had had

790
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,840
first son.
So just, you know, only need

791
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,280
let's get, let's get four or
five more and we'll keep it,

792
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:15,040
keep it, keep it going.
But I've thought about that a

793
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,560
lot, that to me that is a
tremendous Sprite swipe because

794
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,560
so much happens in the family
and I know the building block it

795
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,520
is it.
It's so foundational for

796
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,240
everything.
And as the family goes, society

797
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:29,160
goes.
Now, if it's true that the

798
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,720
families of America are in
desperate trouble.

799
00:49:31,720 --> 00:49:35,400
But when I look within the
church, I'm seeing strength that

800
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,200
gives me hope.
That gives me hope.

801
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,240
Now that that's very that's
encouraging perseverance.

802
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:44,600
It's such a you know it, life is
hard, life is challenging.

803
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,360
Those are some very practical
ways being relational with your

804
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,200
neighbor, invest in your family,
build your family.

805
00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:52,520
What, what other questions
you've got, Michael?

806
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,720
We're just getting past that 50
minute mark.

807
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:56,560
I thought we were going to
another hour.

808
00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:00,560
Well, we have some young kids in
here.

809
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:02,600
It's good to see these young
men.

810
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:08,440
And what advice would you give
to one of these young guys who

811
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,440
they don't know what that maybe
maybe God's calling them to the

812
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,480
ministry, Maybe God's calling
them to be a physical therapist.

813
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:19,200
Probably not.
This a very, very shaky.

814
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,720
Not worth it.
But what advice would you give

815
00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:24,400
to some of our young guys in
here?

816
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,000
Yeah, and I didn't want, I don't
want to leave the impression

817
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,680
with the young guys especially
that when I, when I said that

818
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:37,980
God challenged me to serve my
to, to make my vocation in full

819
00:50:37,980 --> 00:50:43,480
time ministry, that I believe
that that is the only way that

820
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,960
someone can serve God.
Don't mean that at all.

821
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:51,680
I believe there is sacredness in
in every vocation.

822
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:57,840
If you can take your faith and
your character and a ministry

823
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:04,120
mindset into those environments
that is critical within our

824
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,560
society.
So I would, I would say to you

825
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:12,760
guys that, and, and I've, I've
heard this said and I believe

826
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,760
it's true to God is placed
within, within all of you

827
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:24,440
giftings and passion and things
that you have talent toward and

828
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:28,240
things that interest you.
And I, I always try to encourage

829
00:51:28,240 --> 00:51:31,760
young people to find those
things that match their passions

830
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:36,160
and become great at it.
And if this leads to an

831
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:42,200
employment in a way to, to be a,
a productive member of our

832
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:48,560
society, to provide for your
family and to be able to, to

833
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:52,440
sustain their life and encourage
them, then I would really

834
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,360
encourage you to find those
things that put wind in your

835
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:01,880
sails and in something that can
hold not only your interest, but

836
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:06,240
your passion over the long term.
It just so happened that for me

837
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:08,640
it was, it was pastoring full
time ministry.

838
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:14,480
But I, I know so many people,
like both of my kids are in

839
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:18,320
medical fields.
My son's an ER doctor in, in

840
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,200
Greenville.
I, I can't, I can't even touch

841
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,360
sometimes the level of ministry
he's able to have in an

842
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:28,440
emergency room, praying with
families and praying with

843
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,520
patients and helping people in
desperate situations.

844
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,640
That is ministry.
And, and he's touching lives

845
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,720
there as well as in his in his
community.

846
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,920
So I would encourage you to do
that.

847
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,880
Secondly, and this Harkins back,
and I'm going to repeat myself,

848
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:49,240
Mitch, every man needs 3
relationships.

849
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:54,000
We all need a Paul.
We need someone that we're

850
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:58,200
really learning from, someone
older, somebody who's been down

851
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,400
the road further than we have,
somebody who has wisdom that

852
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,480
when they talk, we just shut up
and listen.

853
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:09,080
We need guys like that.
We need Paul's, we need Timothy,

854
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:15,200
we need Barnabas's, guys with
whom we ministered, guys on our

855
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:20,120
level, fellow soldiers that
we're that we're serving with

856
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,160
our contemporaries, our peers.
We need friends right in our

857
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,680
where we are.
And I think we all need a

858
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,480
Timothy.
We all need someone to whom

859
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,800
we're ministering.
When men have these

860
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,400
relationships, someone that's
ministering to us, we're pouring

861
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,800
into US people with whom we are
serving God.

862
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:44,160
And then someone that I can
help, someone that I can pour my

863
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,360
life into.
A lot of men don't have those

864
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:51,000
relationships.
When you do, I believe it.

865
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:56,080
It really balances a man and it
gives you input and opportunity

866
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,080
in so many ways.
And I would encourage you to

867
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,880
identify in your life some, at
least somebody in all three of

868
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,400
those levels.
You say, well, I'm only 15.

869
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,880
Well, I guarantee you there is a
nine year old out there who if

870
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,720
you paid attention to them and
learn their name and talk to

871
00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:17,080
them just once a week, they
would look up to you as like the

872
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,600
best thing since cookies and
cream ice cream.

873
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,960
I mean, they their life will be
touched by you.

874
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:25,800
And you think what?
I'm just a teenager.

875
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,280
Let me tell you, I wanted to be
those people when I was nine.

876
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,280
God used them to formulate the
direction of my life.

877
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:38,200
So you can have that as well.
A Paul, a Barnabas, and a

878
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:42,360
Timothy, and I've been so
blessed to have various versions

879
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,680
of them all throughout my life.
I think it's contributed to

880
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:50,120
whatever God has made of me.
That so much.

881
00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:53,240
I feel like so much practical
advice has come out of this

882
00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:56,000
conversation.
I've really just talking to you.

883
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,000
I think everyone can probably
feel it in the room.

884
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:00,880
Just the genuineness,
authenticity.

885
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:04,000
It's like I can tell you why
you've been so successful at at

886
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,480
pastoring some some extent you
list like the listing talked

887
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,800
about you care about people you
care about God and and God has

888
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,360
been so good in your life.
So really appreciates you taking

889
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:16,920
time trying to recap some of
these main themes.

890
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,800
You know your family was so so
involved in the things of God

891
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:22,880
and pushing in the right
direction.

892
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:27,560
You looked up at these older
teenagers and adults that you

893
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,600
you wanted to emulate them, you
know, circling back around to

894
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,560
the thing you just said, Paul
Barnabas Timothy, and then how

895
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,080
how can we live in addition to
identifying those people as we

896
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,280
can just knock on a neighbor's
door, have them over.

897
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:46,160
And that is so counter cultural.
And you know, I feel like N

898
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,040
everyone's moving, you know,
North throne ever moving to

899
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:49,440
Charleston.
There's so many people I think

900
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,520
looking for community that are
from Seattle or New York.

901
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:55,880
It's, you know, easy might not
be the right word, but it's,

902
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,080
it's sitting there for
Christians to take advantage of

903
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,440
this in a way that the rest of
society doesn't want to.

904
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:05,280
And the transplants are hungrier
than anybody because they don't

905
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,040
have, they're not in the
culture.

906
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,560
So they're looking, they're
looking for people to connect

907
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:11,840
with.
You're right.

908
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,560
You're exactly right.
And, and, and so I think all

909
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:17,240
that fits really nicely in this
theme of perseverance.

910
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:19,520
Anything you want to add here,
Michael?

911
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:26,600
What what you said about God's
grace to teach your heart to

912
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:30,280
fear really resonated with me
because I, I remember being in

913
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:34,560
that same spot too, and just
your eyes open too.

914
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,960
Oh, this is what I deserve.
I don't, I don't want that, but

915
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,800
God's grace to help me see that
that's where I was headed.

916
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:43,800
So.
Yeah.

917
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:46,600
I don't think I have anything
else.

918
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:50,080
Greg, is there any, any parting
words that you would have for

919
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:59,440
us?
Serve God fully for all the days

920
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,840
of your life.
No better thing can be done.

921
00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:08,000
Thanks for listening to Take
Two.

922
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,320
Find us wherever you find
podcasts and on YouTube for

923
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,040
those who want to watch our
video cast.