The True Origins of Halloween

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Michael, Yeah.
I don't know about you.

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This is coming out on Halloween.
On Halloween.

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So yeah, this is the the
Halloween episode.

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And if you're anything like me,
I'm I'm not superstitious, but I

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am a little stitious.
No, that's that's perfect.

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Does it mean anything to you?
I, I mean it does I, I have seen

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contrary.
So you you brought up The Office

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in one of our episodes.
And you'll help me out to dry.

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You abandoned me in my darkest
moment.

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I, I should say I had not seen
all the offs episodes and some

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of them we both know some of
them, they push the line a

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little.
That's true sometimes.

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But you know, I've always been a
fan of, of humor 'cause that's

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why it's so funny.
You know what I'm?

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Saying it checks, it checks out.
And what a what a great quote

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for Halloween.
You can't.

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You can't leave.
That one off of the no, it's

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good.
Halloween episode 'cause we're

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gonna try to just answer
everything about.

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How everything all of your
questions over Halloween?

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'Cause I was, in my mind, I was
like, man, should a Christian

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celebrate it?
But I saw you, you got the Ouija

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board out and you're like
getting the answer.

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So I'm ready for it.
I thought that that's how we

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should get it or that or the the
Magic 8 ball.

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Yeah, yeah.
Looking doubtful, roll again

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type of thing.
Yeah, yeah, Magic 8 ball.

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Man, that really when?
When was its heyday?

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I mean.
Has he just been around forever?

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For a long time there's I know
someone who has 1 today and they

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you know that they don't
seriously use it, but you know,

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they, they not, not in my house.
Let me just make that not in my

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house.
But oh man, a lot of a lot of

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fun things to talk about.
So I'm, I'm excited for the

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notes.
I think, I think it's pretty,

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you know, covered pretty well.
Yeah, and because this is, you

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know, we're going to record 2
episodes tonight.

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That's right.
And this one will air the the

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soonest.
And I'm wearing Pat's hat.

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I should.
So I should at least mention,

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you know, Pat's.
I think it's our first victory.

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I think it's hey, better late
than never.

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Better late than never.
And beating The Jets and Aaron

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Rodgers?
Same game it was.

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I don't love Aaron Rodgers, but
I like Aaron Rodgers a lot.

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You know, he's just a good guy.
He's just a good guy.

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He's just down to earth, you
know?

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I saw this meme like who's he
going to blame this week?

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And then the the media were like
asking him like here are some

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same issues.
You haven't changed.

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What's your plan?
He's like, stop listening to you

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guys for the for the to start.
And then it's like, blame the

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media.
Oh man.

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Are we facing the Titans next
week?

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I don't know.
I I haven't really been keeping

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up with the entertainment.
Yeah, this is center that NFL is

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these days.
It's.

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It's all scripted.
Is that what you're saying?

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I mean, oh man.
You were pretty fired up

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yesterday night or a couple
nights ago.

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Home groups talking about the
the cause.

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Yeah.
Are the Chiefs are still

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rolling.
You're you're #2 team.

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It's like Pats for you, then the
Chiefs.

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Right.
The Chiefs, yeah.

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I mean, they're scripted to win.
They they, I think I, I think

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what as a business, the NFL
probably made a lot of money off

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the Pats.
They're they're probably saw a

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huge fan base come in, a lot of
merch sold.

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They want to repeat that.
Where do you so you need to

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build like if everyone is kind
of, you know, you have your ups

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and downs and you don't have
this, what do we call it legacy,

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a dynasty then.
But if you have a dynasty, yeah,

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you make more money.
I I think that's what it is.

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I think it's just, but it's so
obvious to most fans.

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Most fans, some people can't see
it, but you know.

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Oh man, I'm it's.
Spooky, you know what I'm

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saying?
So it's spooky scary, yeah, just

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like Halloween.
Glad we could tie that back

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together.
Yeah, join us as we talk about

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all things Halloween.
And we're probably going to save

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the answer for the end.
Right.

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Yeah, let's do it.
Let's do it.

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All right, Let's take it to the
next level.

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From the hearts of the Low
Country in South Carolina.

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It's the Take Two podcast where
we take theology to the next

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level.
All right, Halloween.

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Zach, did you celebrate
Halloween as a youngster?

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Yeah, I, I don't know what what
you mean by celebrate Halloween

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did.
You participate in Halloween

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activities as a child.
Just dress up.

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I did get to dress up as a I've
got pictures as a young kid

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dressing up there.
So as a kid we I've got I was a

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fireman one year.
I was like a hobo one year, got

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a good picture of that.
Then there was a time as I got

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older, we were in a church that
end up doing like Harvest Day

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celebrations, which, let me be
clear, way different just

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happens to be on the same day.
You can still dress up, but it's

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way different.
And then we participate that

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with our, with our church.
And then when I got, you know,

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I, you know, I don't know what
age you like stopped doing

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Halloween, probably 12 or 13.
And then I went out with my

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friends or maybe 14 then.
And you're kind of too old for

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it, but it's kind of fun with
your own friends, I guess.

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Yeah, so for us, we were kind of
all in, like it didn't matter.

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It was all just fun and games.
That's right.

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So your so your church didn't do
any celebration.

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It was kind of like go, we're
there's no.

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Like early 80s, you know, early
80s, like 8380 when I would have

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been just young enough to start
participating and, you know, but

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which is ghost.
I think we had this like spooky

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monster mask that that would get
passed down year to year.

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I remember one year there we had
some overalls and I was like

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trying to be a zombie type of
thing, like what?

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Put some blood on there and
stuff.

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But I think maybe late 80s,
early 90s, this guy came in and

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talked to our church.
Yeah, Amen.

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Yeah, Amen.
And talk was all of the really,

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really, really bad things about
Halloween.

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And so did you ever have that
talk?

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Probably at this?
Harvest.

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Yeah.
And, and.

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And at the church I grew up in,
it was pretty what you would

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call independent fundamental
Baptist.

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So you had people on all sides,
some people who like really

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didn't care, some people that
had strong convictions.

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You had like a pretty big mix
where I would say some people

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had very strong.
It wasn't like, do it.

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It was like, no, you shouldn't
do it.

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But some people are like, yeah,
fine, not that big a deal.

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And our church just decided to
like Northwood, where our kids

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go to school, they do like a
trunk or treat on a separate

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day.
Like our church would do stuff

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on the same base.
So you kind of had to pick, I

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think probably to accommodate
people that kind of thing.

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So it wasn't like across the
board, but there were people

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like on all sides of the issue
for sure.

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Yeah.
So the, I think this guy came in

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and he really like pushed the
church over to like, nothing

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that was dark at all, which I
can get.

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But I think, you know, I think
it all really depends on kind of

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the spirit that you're doing it
in maybe.

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I mean, I don't want to hedge
around that, but, you know, we

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talked about, you know, bonfires
being bone fires and human

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sacrifice.
Because that that's a good one.

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Because I think typically people
are OK with bonfires.

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If it's not Halloween, it's
like, OK, but it is.

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There's connections.
Yeah, that's a good point.

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And then Jack O lanterns, we
heard this, this tale about how

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they were like said to have
captured people's souls.

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I've I've heard that as well and
I've also heard that they would,

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I was looking at something else
that they would like ward off

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evil spirits too.
So if you didn't have Jack O

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lanterns, you were like
welcoming them.

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Right, like this soul has
already been taken.

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Or something like that.
Yeah, yeah, something like it.

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Was marked or something?
And I heard the same thing with

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costumes, Like you dress up to
like, you know, I don't know,

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ward off you dress funny and all
this stuff.

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I don't know.
I was looking, I asked Jill and

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I saw in the some of the notes
that you wrote.

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I I had never heard this before,
but that it was Satan's

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birthday.
Yeah, it's a tricky 1 because

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Santa can also be scrambled to
be Satan for Christmas.

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So you got it.
There's a couple of different

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fronts.
Yeah, well, Oct 31 is Deck 25 if

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you're doing number systems.
So that's a math joke, but it's

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it.
Works out, but I'm sure all the

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math fans are like do another
one that was great.

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But yeah, I've I've heard things
like I don't know if I've heard

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maybe people in ignorance be
like it's Satan's birthday or

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something like that.
I was looking up some stuff and

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in the most popular Satanic
religions, you know what?

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What like Satan, like the the
Satan's day is or like the that

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the most important day to a
Satanist?

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June 1st.
Yeah, no, no, I'm just kidding.

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It's, it's, I guess there's a
bunch of different kind of

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cults, but the most popular one
I read was It's your own

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birthday, because it's all about
like yourself.

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It's like your birthday.
My own birthday is the day that

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it's.
It's like the most celebrated in

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place.
It's so yesterday for me, right?

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Yeah.
Yesterday.

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That's that's great.
And I love, I love this Pagan

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holiday.
Sam Hayne.

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Samhain Well, that's what it
looks like, but it's apparently

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pronounced Sowin.
Sowin Yeah.

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But yeah, so we were told, you
know, this is basically you are

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celebrating a Pagan holiday.
Sowin.

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But they probably pronounced it
Samhain back then.

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'Cause they did.
No, that's like such an American

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like.
Samhain and that, you know, the

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demons were more active.
So I think those were probably

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things that we've all heard.
So then the I think the bottom

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line question, Zach, is should
Christians celebrate or partake?

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Cool.
That's the $1,000,000 question

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and probably what makes it most
challenging.

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Probably it depends.
Yeah, probably.

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It does depend on, I guess a
number of things, you know, what

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your thought process is behind
it.

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I, I guess in how you do it,
what you do and you know, so, so

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maybe we should talk about the
true origins of Halloween, kind

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of maybe clear away some of the
fanciful stuff and we should

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start by talking about Saint
Patrick's Day.

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Nice, I like it 'cause every
good Halloween conversation goes

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back to Saint Patty.
'S Day, Saint Patrick's Day,

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Saint Valentine's Day a.
Lot of Saints.

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A lot of St.
And if you take my definition of

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a St. it really starts getting
to a lot of Saints.

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The calendar fills up fast.
Very fast, yeah.

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So as you know, the early
church, they put certain

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Christians in this category of
Saint where we wouldn't do that

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today.
But those who were like, like

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apostles, those who were
martyrs, those who, you know,

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live some great life or
something, or there was some

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miracle done through them, they
kind of got venerated to this

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higher level of St.
And you should celebrate that

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person.
So March 17th, St.

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Patrick's Day, February 14th,
Saint Valentine's Day, And

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there's, you know, Saint Luke's
Day, St.

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John's Day, Saint Paul's Day.
Man, but Valentine and Patrick

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get all the love.
Yeah, yeah.

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So eventually you run out of
days.

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Yeah.
And so we put them all together.

225
00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,040
Just give one day to all you
guys.

226
00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,320
One day, call it All Saints Day.
I I like this too.

227
00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,120
Apparently it goes back to the
three hundreds, like in an

228
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:06,920
unofficial capacity.
Yeah, yeah.

229
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,360
And, and it's not in the in the
fall, it's not October 31st.

230
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,440
No, it was, it was first
celebrated in the spring and

231
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,200
there, you know, the church kind
of split into East and West.

232
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,400
So one of them celebrated it and
I should have brought that

233
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:23,640
pamphlet.
We're getting a lot of this

234
00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,640
information from a pamphlet.
I will link it and maybe put a

235
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:31,560
picture up here for you.
But you know, one of the the

236
00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:34,920
East celebrated it like maybe a
week after Pentecost, like the

237
00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,800
Sunday after Pentecost.
The West celebrated it the

238
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,000
Friday after Easter or I have
those reversed but it was early

239
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:42,960
on like this can.
You imagine I can't even get my

240
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,200
mind around like the Friday
after Easter.

241
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,040
Tom, the drug, it's so hot.
It's it's better that it's still

242
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:49,840
can be pretty hot October 31st.
So yeah.

243
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:56,040
And so then around 16 O nine, it
was established as an actual

244
00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:56,680
day.
Wow.

245
00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:58,840
That was May 13th.
We don't say.

246
00:11:58,840 --> 00:11:59,880
Did you say 6?
O9.

247
00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,240
I said 16.
OK, Yeah, thanks for the

248
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,040
correction.
It was yeah, six O 9.

249
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,520
Didn't want another Ephesians
289 situation on our hands, if

250
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:07,240
you know what I mean.
Yes.

251
00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,960
Clear clearly, yes.
So six O 9 or 610.

252
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,400
This, so this goes back, back,
back, back, back All Saints Day.

253
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,640
All Saints Day goes way back and
it was officially like this.

254
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:25,840
May 13th day was Pope Boniface.
The 4th set it up and so then it

255
00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:30,360
was rolling good until around
somewhere, we don't know,

256
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,800
Somewhere between 7:31 and 7:41
it got pushed to November 1st.

257
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:37,200
Gotcha, now it's making more
sense.

258
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:42,760
Yeah, yeah.
So the idea, we don't know for

259
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:48,160
sure, some of the when you read
the suggestion is you have all

260
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,240
these people making these
pilgrimages.

261
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,560
OK, Yeah.
To Rome to celebrate All Saints

262
00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:58,360
Day, and you've just come out of
winter, you don't have a lot of

263
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,840
food.
But if we move it to the fall

264
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,560
when we just had the harvest, we
can be a little more crazy.

265
00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:05,240
Party time.
We don't have to worry about not

266
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:05,800
having enough.
Food.

267
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,240
It's hard to have a celebration
when you're scrounging for stuff

268
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,120
that makes a lot of sense.
And so it seems like that was

269
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:19,400
part of it.
So by 7:31 somewhere, 730-1741,

270
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,000
it was moved to November 1st.
And so then I thought it might

271
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,240
be good because, and you may be
like, OK, I thought we were

272
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:27,680
talking about Halloween.
What's going on?

273
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:30,280
Why are we talking about All
Saints Day and why are we

274
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,840
talking about, we're about to
talk about Rome's conquest of

275
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,160
the British Isles.
But just hang in there with us.

276
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,240
We're going to wrap it all up.
So I was surprised to know this

277
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,360
that Caesar Augustus back in
like 55 AD made the first

278
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,920
invasion into the British Isles.
Man, learning a lot.

279
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:56,880
Yeah, but the the Empire of Rome
actually kind of conquered those

280
00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,640
Isles under Claudius in 4380.
So about 100 years later,

281
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,520
that's.
Crazy cause Claudius emperor

282
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,000
like we were talking about that
in Roman series.

283
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,480
So this is all.
This is all interesting.

284
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,240
And so they were under Roman
rule through that time.

285
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,480
We know Constantine converted in
312.

286
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:18,040
So Christianity would have hit
on those shores around 3-12,

287
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:23,000
maybe a few years later.
By 400 AD, Christianity was well

288
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:24,520
established.
Now we don't know if they're

289
00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,200
really Christians.
Are they just nominal

290
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:27,800
Christians?
Are they bend in the knee?

291
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,760
Because yeah, we don't know all
of that, but we know that least

292
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:36,280
the practice, the name, the the
ideas of Christianity had gone

293
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,800
to the the islands by 400 AD.
And then I guess when the Gauls

294
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,760
were invading and stuff and the
the empire's collapsing.

295
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:50,120
Rome withdraws in 410 and
Christianity declines.

296
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:58,720
But in 597, the Pope sends Saint
Augustine of Canterbury, not the

297
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,240
other one, to London to kind of
really reconstitute

298
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:04,640
Christianity.
So it's really starts to

299
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:12,280
flourish by then.
So by 597 it's like completely

300
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:17,320
Christian Halloween or me,
pardon me, All Saints Day, not

301
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,040
to not to reveal anything too
soon.

302
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,680
All Saints Day is still being
held in the spring right now,

303
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:27,160
right?
We've got 200 years or more of

304
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:32,760
like full on Christianity,
Christianity before it moves to

305
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:34,120
November 1st.
Wow.

306
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,560
And so this this makes a lot of
a lot of sense.

307
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,720
This is going to be a lesson in
contractions and Eves and all

308
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:45,320
this stuff too, right?
So All Saints Day Saints Holy

309
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,280
equals All Hallows Day.
Yeah, so just like in the Lord's

310
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:53,200
Prayer, the KJV hallowed be thy
name, it's the same word.

311
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,640
Hallowed Holy St.
It's it's just a different word

312
00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:58,920
from a different language
family.

313
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,800
And in the day before something
is the eve, like Christmas Eve

314
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,160
and Christmas.
So we have All Saints Day to All

315
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,720
Hallows Day, All Hallows Eve.
Yeah.

316
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:08,520
That's a lot to say.
That's a mouthful.

317
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,000
No one wants to say All Hallows
Eve I.

318
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,560
Just want to say Hallows Eve.
And even that, yeah is just a

319
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,200
mouthful too.
So I'm just gonna say Halloween.

320
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:15,680
Halloween Halloween.
Boom.

321
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,160
So that's how we we get
Halloween on October 31st

322
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,840
because All Saints Day or All
Hallows Day is on November 1st.

323
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,000
And then it's it's bad news from
here in the, in the Celtic,

324
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,680
Celtic English kind of area.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

325
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:34,960
So there was this holiday that
they celebrated Salwin.

326
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:42,560
It's spelled like Samhain S AM
Hain, and that was basically all

327
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,200
that was destroyed when Rome
comes in, you know, there are

328
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:52,880
people who lamented the loss of
the British culture and wrote,

329
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,240
you know, epic stories to kind
of replace the loss of those

330
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:57,760
stories.
Jr.

331
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,360
Tolkien did that.
Oh boy.

332
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,360
But so all of a lot of that was
lost.

333
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:10,280
So our earliest record of sow in
dates from late 10th century by

334
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:14,839
this guy who is in Northern
Ireland, Northern Scotland, he's

335
00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:19,640
a Northern Celtic guy and he's
telling what they used to do.

336
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,880
Gotcha.
So there's that's our earliest

337
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,040
record and it's years and years
and years and years after all

338
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:26,920
that we've talked about.
Well, that, that, that's pretty

339
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:28,160
amazing.
Yeah, hundreds of years

340
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,360
afterwards.
And so I guess what would be

341
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:33,840
helpful is we're talking about
this holiday, Like what, what

342
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:34,920
goes on?
What, what do we know?

343
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,360
What did they write about?
And from what I'm reading,

344
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,720
harvest was celebrated, fires
were made, give some lights.

345
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,440
People gathered around, told
stories.

346
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,600
People were celebrating this
change of season.

347
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,400
It's getting darker, it's
getting colder, Summer's past.

348
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,040
And then there's, you know, like
you're, you've dropped your,

349
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:52,680
your boy's name.
You know, some of the

350
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,920
storytelling is a little bit,
you know, maybe some of this

351
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,640
fanciful stuff is in there.
Yeah.

352
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,040
So what we can tell is, yeah,
that's a really good, accurate

353
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,200
description.
They told some supernatural,

354
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,200
preternatural, mythical stories
during this time.

355
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:10,760
In, in, in your notes, you say
doesn't sound that bad.

356
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:13,560
Lord of the Rings.
That sounds a little rough, but

357
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:14,440
I know what you're saying.
It didn't.

358
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,240
It didn't sound like malicious
or mischievous or like it didn't

359
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,280
sound evil.
Right, 'cause I love, I mean, I

360
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,840
have a fire pit out behind my
house this time of year.

361
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,480
Like I've already had a couple
fires.

362
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,120
I love just sitting out there
looking at the fire, maybe

363
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:29,560
roasting some marshmallows.
Like, like, I'm just kidding.

364
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:30,360
Halloween.
Yeah, Yeah.

365
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,840
But I like you're drawing this
distinction where even that

366
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,840
Pagan holiday was not
necessarily Satan, like Satan

367
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,400
'cause that's, I think it gets a
bad rap.

368
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:41,960
I don't know a lot about this
holiday, but that's just where

369
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,080
my mind goes.
Yeah, well, 'cause a guy in the

370
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:49,160
late 1800s wrote about Sao in
Gotcha and ascribed the

371
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,400
practices that were associated
with Halloween to be present in

372
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,480
in Samhain, Sao Inn and.
It's one of those like I'm just

373
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,120
keep saying Samhain, one of
those things too.

374
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,240
You probably couldn't say.
I know for sure no one ever had

375
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,440
some dark evil story about
witches.

376
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,960
Sure you like, maybe there was
some, but it wasn't like the

377
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,000
theme of it or the spirit.
Like, if you go on a camping

378
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,640
trip and you tell stories around
the campfire, someone's probably

379
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,720
going to tell a story about, you
know, a hand that's left, you

380
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,840
know, holding on to a rear view
mirror or something like that.

381
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:19,640
A scary story.
Yeah.

382
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,880
So I'm sure there were some
things in there.

383
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,040
That doesn't mean that all the
dark elements of Halloween are

384
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:26,360
OK.
Exactly.

385
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:28,400
Yeah, that's not you.
Might ask, OK, if they didn't

386
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,440
come from this Pagan holiday,
where did they come from?

387
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,720
Yeah, that's a good question
because I think a lot of

388
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:40,200
thinking out there is All Saints
Day basically was made to like

389
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,600
this terrible holiday.
Let's like Christianize it.

390
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,160
We're going to throw that over
there and start afresh.

391
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,680
Right, yeah.
And honestly, I don't have a

392
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,880
problem with that practice in
general when that happens, like

393
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:54,440
let's redeem this thing, let's
take it out of this culture,

394
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:59,720
let's re Christianize this so
that we, you know, is we take

395
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,880
off and we put on.
I mean, but that's not what

396
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,440
happened here at all, even if
you were concerned about that.

397
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,840
Because the dark elements come
in through none other than our

398
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,240
dear old Catholic Church.
Sorry to throw a jail about our

399
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,080
Kathleen brought.
Everything from that, so

400
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,680
Halloween, you know, has a
Christian origin partially

401
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,280
because like we're saying,
Christianity ruled the world at

402
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,000
one point.
So everything, I mean, from a

403
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,240
time period had that Christian
origin and then corrupted in

404
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,560
certain places from there.
So let's talk about some of

405
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:35,760
those maybe darker elements.
Yeah, So around I was just, I

406
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:41,480
know it's 1049, this someone
wrote about having these days

407
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:46,000
set aside to pray for the dead,
to pray for those who he had

408
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,320
lost.
And that was like put into some

409
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,960
liturgical form.
And then by 1274, so a little

410
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,200
over 200 years later, it became
dogma in the Catholic Church

411
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:01,280
that when someone dies and
they're not, they're not so bad

412
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,920
that they're going to hell, but
they weren't clean clean when

413
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,160
they died.
Then you go into purgatory.

414
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,640
And, and how long that could be,
could be a little bit a lot of

415
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,760
it we don't, we don't really,
there's not a definitive

416
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,680
timeline given.
It's all dependence on how bad

417
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,080
you were maybe, or how good you
were, how close you are.

418
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,080
Or if people pray for you here.
You know what I was thinking?

419
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,360
I was thinking, what would Craig
Cockel think about the

420
00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:28,120
situation?
Greg Cockel was born Catholic,

421
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:29,440
or was.
Raised, I'd not know this.

422
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,440
So yeah, yeah.
So he remembers, he will retell

423
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,720
being being told and taught
about purgatory and like one of

424
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,000
his nuns or priests or someone
said you could be there for a

425
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:40,840
million years burning away your
sins.

426
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,640
And he's like, this is not good
news.

427
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,960
This is not like the gospel is
good news.

428
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,160
This is not it.
So it was a very worrisome thing

429
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:50,800
to note.
You know, how long are we going

430
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,840
to be there?
And he always makes this point.

431
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,400
Either sin overcomes the blood
of Jesus or the blood of Jesus

432
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:58,600
overcomes sin.
Like what?

433
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,360
What do we see in the Bible?
Yeah, that that's good.

434
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:04,280
And we can kind of start fuse.
You start getting some

435
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,520
Reformation vibes as we're
talking about purgatory, maybe

436
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,560
you're thinking indulgences.
You're thinking of our guy, a

437
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,080
Luther that had, you know, 95
problems and nailed those

438
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,040
suckers to a wall.
So here's a quote from that

439
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,160
pamphlet.
Though the Roman Catholic Church

440
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,720
was careful not to define the
nature of purgatory, wild and

441
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,880
terrible descriptions developed
among Christians.

442
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,960
Furthermore, over the next
several centuries, a tremendous

443
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,840
amount of energy when the
understanding purgatory,

444
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,040
teaching people about it, and in
particular arranging life in the

445
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,680
present in relation to it.
All Saints and All Souls Day

446
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,360
were both intimately tied to
remembering the Christian dead

447
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,400
and considering their state.
It became standard practice

448
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,680
during these days for Christians
to call on the Saints for help

449
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,080
in relieving loved ones from
their punishments of purgatory.

450
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,920
Well, that's pretty amazing.
Just the cultural significance,

451
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,360
you know, new theological
development and all that energy.

452
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:02,720
Probably papers are written and
then your whole way you live

453
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,280
life shifts because of this.
That's pretty fascinating, you

454
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:10,240
know?
So Luther is not a fan.

455
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:12,880
Not loving.
It he's not loving it.

456
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,680
So you're you already alluded to
it.

457
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:21,480
He hammered the 95 theses to the
door on Halloween on purpose.

458
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,880
It wasn't a coincidence because
Halloween had been so closely

459
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,880
associated with purgatory and
therefore indulgences.

460
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,360
He's trying to say something
like this is not how it should

461
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:35,120
be.
We need to have a conversation.

462
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,000
We need to fix ourselves that
that that was his goal.

463
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,640
Yeah, no, that, that's great.
We've got a few of these theses

464
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,360
there because I, I think most
people just have, are familiar

465
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:48,280
with 95 theses.
They don't know what any of them

466
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,600
said.
So here's the thesis. 35

467
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,200
indulgences were giving people a
false assurance of salvation,

468
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,600
wanting them to overlook true
repentance and contrition.

469
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,200
So here's the actual thesis.
It's not in accordance with

470
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,480
Christian doctrine to preach and
teach that those who buy off

471
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,920
souls or purchase confessional
licenses have no need to repent

472
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,880
of their own sins.
So kind of bypassed repentance

473
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,080
'cause you can do that.
You've ever read the Bible?

474
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,600
Yeah, that's just some money and
it's God counts that as the

475
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,520
same, right?
Cause part of me can understand

476
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,040
that I don't really understand,
but I can understand that you're

477
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,160
going to live a holy life and do
these holy things on top of

478
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,000
stuff.
But it's like, hey, I can do a

479
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,400
little exchange that's like,
wow, totally.

480
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,720
Yeah, there's famously this
story of this guy that was come

481
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:36,640
in and was selling indulgences
and this guy said, can I buy an

482
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,520
indulgence for a future sinful
act?

483
00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:44,040
And the guy and this guy was was
rich and he was like, sure,

484
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,280
it'll cost you this much money.
So he gives them the indulgence

485
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:53,960
and then he stat, he stages some
bandits and robs that guy of all

486
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,120
his money.
It's like, here's my indulgence.

487
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:59,280
Gotcha.
Wow, that that is something.

488
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,320
Yeah, indulgences are clearly
being sold for financial gain.

489
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,600
Here's Thesis 28 When the money
clinks in the bottom of the

490
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,880
chest, avarice and greed and
crease.

491
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,040
I love that and I I don't I
can't remember what's like the

492
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,640
the slogans.
It's like when a coin of the

493
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,280
copper clinks a soul and I don't
know what.

494
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:18,600
It is as.
Released.

495
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:19,000
Yeah.
It's great.

496
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,760
They had, like, all these, like,
little phrases or whatever.

497
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,000
Then we got one more thesis. 27
There is no divine authority for

498
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,160
preaching that the soul flies
out of purgatory immediately.

499
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,000
Immediately when the money
clinks in the bottom of the

500
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:31,600
chest.
Yeah.

501
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:32,880
You can't find a chapter in
verse for that.

502
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:37,400
One, no, no, no.
And, and just to be true, I

503
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,000
think, well, I've heard some
present day Catholics talk about

504
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,480
purgatory and they would say,
yes, we still believe in

505
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:48,720
purgatory, but we don't.
But we do not paint it in this

506
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,400
picture.
Adult indulgences were done away

507
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:56,600
with and there were Catholics,
even Pope Pius the 5th in 1567,

508
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,560
who had some criticisms of this.
So just to be fair that there

509
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:00,680
are.
That's true.

510
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,840
Don't want to totally it might
have taken a few 100 years

511
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,560
there, but they eventually like
shut it down, which bring brings

512
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,000
to a big point.
We've kind of talked about it,

513
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,520
but the myth is that Halloween
and and October 31st just and

514
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,160
and Reformation day.
You know happenstance.

515
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,480
Yeah, no, this, this was
purposeful because it was so

516
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,280
tied with these beliefs about
purgatory, the dead, the

517
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,240
afterlife that that were in
connection with this holiday

518
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:27,920
that we are trying to get
better.

519
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,840
And this is the perfect segue to
witches.

520
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,520
Yeah, I mean, from there into
witches.

521
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:39,120
So there are some elements that
you might wonder how did we get

522
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:41,040
there?
How did witches, how did ghosts

523
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,240
kind of become part of
Halloween?

524
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,040
And in general, they thought
that because they're praying for

525
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,760
the dead and this was All Saints
Day in an All Souls Day, that

526
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,480
that veil between the living and
the dead was thinned or pulled

527
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:59,360
back or stretched so that you
might, you might have these, you

528
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:02,680
know, trapped human souls
wandering around and stuff.

529
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,800
So you kind of get all these
dark elements in there because

530
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,240
of purgatory and and
Catholicism.

531
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,200
Well, and you and you see
things, if we're going to

532
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,360
scripture about necromancy and
communicating with the dead that

533
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:14,840
that's not, that's not no bueno,
not good to do.

534
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,400
Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, Scripture, as you

535
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,040
alluded to, strictly forbades
it.

536
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,240
Deuteronomy 1810 says let no one
be found among you who practices

537
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,440
definition or sorcery,
interprets omens, engages in

538
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,960
witchcraft or cast spells, or
who's a medium or spiritualist,

539
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,200
or who consults the dead.
Anyone who does these things is

540
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:35,720
detestable to the Lord.
Yeah.

541
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,560
Pretty clear, pretty clear
there.

542
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,320
Have you met anyone who who is a
witch or practices in this?

543
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,560
You know, seems.
Like I have been told by someone

544
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,520
that they were Wiccan but I
don't.

545
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,800
It's no one in my, it's no one
that it was like a year and

546
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,080
gone.
I had AI had a patient one time

547
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,720
who practiced this and I don't
know if this happened today or

548
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,800
not, but she had like 3 cats.
I don't I'm always a cats with

549
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,680
that.
And she was like super friendly,

550
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,960
super nice, but she always had
things all over her house.

551
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:12,160
You know, I was like, but very,
very kind, very like our notes

552
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,760
here say good.
I was very positive.

553
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:19,280
It wasn't like I'm going to
curse you, but still not great,

554
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:20,640
right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

555
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,760
Because when you open yourself
up to those preternatural

556
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,440
elements, we know that it's God
that can do stuff.

557
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,840
Or.
Demons, you know, and so you

558
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,080
know, you and I don't think God
works those ways.

559
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,680
So if you see stuff happen
scary, it's it's, you know,

560
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,920
through demons.
So this this leads us to to

561
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,440
ghost, ghost big part of
Halloween people hanging sheets

562
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,160
everywhere and saying Boo.
And you know, what are ghosts?

563
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,280
Are they real?
Do we have, you know, you know,

564
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,520
people are ghost hunters and
these kind of things, you know,

565
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,040
and they're going to these old
houses.

566
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,960
So I guess a good place to start
is what what do you mean when

567
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,160
you say ghost?
Because I think people mean.

568
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,840
Different things, yeah.
I remember watching so at my

569
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,200
college we, they would run a
movie on the college channel

570
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,320
like every Wednesday night or
something or every Thursday,

571
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,040
whatever it was.
And so I saw that The Exorcist

572
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,440
was going to run one night and I
was like, I've never seen that

573
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,360
I'll check this out.
Scariest movie I've seen in my

574
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,960
life.
Scariest movie I have seen in my

575
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:26,280
life because I took it as
probably real or very close to

576
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,760
what could be real.
And so, you know, if by ghost

577
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,280
you mean some type of demonic
activity, Yeah.

578
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,680
I mean, it seems like that has
maybe gone down since Jesus's

579
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,360
time here.
We don't, you know.

580
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,120
Some people surmise that there
were further constraints put on

581
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,000
them after Jesus rose from the
dead.

582
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:46,840
Oh yeah, yeah, right.
Yeah.

583
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,520
I don't know.
We're not told.

584
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,000
Explicitly.
You know what's interesting too,

585
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,680
after I was like watching a a
scare movement time about it was

586
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,880
not the exorcist, but something
like there were exorcisms in

587
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,360
there.
And I don't know if you know

588
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,360
this like you can look up how
many like exorcism experts, the

589
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,400
Catholic Church, like employees
like to the same.

590
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,160
They, they send them out like
all the time to these places to.

591
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,640
I mean, I don't think most of
the time they're performing

592
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,280
exorcism, but they're, you know,
blessing the play or whatever

593
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,600
and, and for that, but they're
like, I don't know if they're

594
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,760
called exorcism specials, but
it's something like very close.

595
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,400
It's like that's their job and
they just go place to.

596
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:19,600
Place.
Blessing.

597
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,320
Yeah, yeah.
And it's a decent amount of

598
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,600
people they employ in there.
I was looking at us like, oh,

599
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,160
that's interesting.
So if by ghost you mean

600
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,000
something like that, yeah, it
probably could be something like

601
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,400
that.
If by ghost you mean some

602
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,520
stranded human soul that's been
trapped.

603
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,840
Cause a lot of people, that's
what they mean, that it's like,

604
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,800
yeah, floating around there
trapped someone didn't they

605
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,880
weren't buried in peace or
they're not resting in peace.

606
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,480
Or that, you know, that, yeah,
something was done wrong to them

607
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,080
while they were here on Earth,
and until that gets paid for,

608
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,080
they're going to, you know, you
know, haunt over that area or

609
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,160
something.
And that's clearly not biblical.

610
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:56,960
Yeah, and and really only time
we see a soul separate from the

611
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,480
body.
An Elohim is the word used of of

612
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,360
Samuel when Saul's going to this
lady, for you know the the

613
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,400
summon him from the dead.
And it wigs her out.

614
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,440
And it, yeah, she, it's, it's
like, whoa, this is, this is bad

615
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,160
news.
I normally just fake this part,

616
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,000
and here this guy is talking.
So yeah.

617
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,240
Yeah.
And that God allowed that for

618
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,640
that one time.
It was judging Saul.

619
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,800
You know, Saul and his sons died
the next day.

620
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,360
So not a good, not a good thing.
Not like and like we you've

621
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,880
already said like, yeah, don't
open yourself up to this bad,

622
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,560
bad stuff.
Now we get to trick or treat.

623
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,360
I can you sing a song for me?
Trick or treat?

624
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:33,680
Smell my feet, Give me
something.

625
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,600
To eat, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Did you say that?

626
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,920
Is there another did we used?
To there's more to that too.

627
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,960
I I we just did for our work, we
did like a trunk or treat out at

628
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,760
one of the assisted livings and
there's like a little girl who

629
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,760
was she was like having the time
of her life like saying that to

630
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,720
everyone.
She was great, but she probably

631
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,720
didn't know what what she was
saying between What's the trick?

632
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,640
What's the treat she.
Didn't know, she didn't know.

633
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,600
So both of the the trick and the
treat have their origins on the

634
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,040
British Isles.
And this is good.

635
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:06,640
Yeah, so the treat was these
poor people would go around and

636
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,320
they would beg for food or some
drink or whatever.

637
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,080
And in exchange they would say,
we will, you know, be sure to

638
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,240
pray for your loved ones to help
them get out of purgatory for,

639
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:18,960
you know, whatever ever
meantime.

640
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,520
And so that was this exchange.
So please treat us and we will.

641
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,200
We'll pray for your loved ones,
which I mean, on the surface, if

642
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,920
that theology is correct, that's
there's nothing bad in that, you

643
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,040
know?
Yeah, if you're, you're trying

644
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:31,600
to help someone out there
helping you out and it's like

645
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,880
really, you know, help How about
some of these poor people that

646
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,120
don't, don't have means like,
and it's you're not giving them

647
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,800
a Snickers, you're probably
giving them like something

648
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,720
substantial.
Sure, hey, I'll give you a pot

649
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,280
of porridge and if you pray for
my mom, get her out of purgatory

650
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:44,240
sooner.
It's all good.

651
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:45,600
But The thing is, you never
know.

652
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,600
Like your mom could already be
out of purgatory.

653
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,440
Where do those prayers go?
That that's true.

654
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,480
It's like, man, that's very,
very crazy and on their side.

655
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,200
That's the treat.
The trick really spoke more to

656
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,360
some maybe practical jokes.
You know you can, you know,

657
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,440
those crazy kids that are just
like going to have some, have

658
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,000
some fun, you know?
Yeah, some of.

659
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,080
Them turn up attacks.
Turn up attacks, some of them

660
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,920
recorded, were like parking a
cart in front of a house door.

661
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,360
So they couldn't open the door,
you know, had to figure out how

662
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,400
to get out.
So yeah.

663
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:14,360
Wow.
And so if we look over to

664
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,800
Ireland just just across the
way, yeah, yeah.

665
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,840
Halloween bagging always
involved a masquerade and some

666
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,280
sort of good-natured bribe.
So you're kind of playing off of

667
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,240
that tradition.
And such traditions were easily

668
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,480
imported over here to the good
US of A.

669
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,680
And it appears, you know, that
term trick or treat just kind of

670
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,480
grew out of that.
And if someone's not going to

671
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,960
give you candy, you might be
like, hey, I might, I might

672
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:36,000
prank you.
Yeah, Yeah.

673
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,160
You might end up with your plow,
you know, 50 feet from where

674
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,360
where it was it it.
And I think those kind of, you

675
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,240
know, if you don't add in the
dark type of things, those type

676
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,920
of things happen all the time.
I remember we were at issues

677
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:57,920
college campus for bot to bytes.
It was a how to do use MIDI in a

678
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,960
soft computer software to write
code and they were doing some

679
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,040
construction.
There was this lamp pole that

680
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,760
they had laying down that they
were going to install.

681
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,760
And it was like me and four
other guys and we just picked

682
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,199
the lamp pole up and maybe
walked it 100 yards away and put

683
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:14,639
it down.
And is it like it's not a big

684
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:16,360
deal, but if you're the only guy
there that.

685
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:17,760
Might then it then it could be.
Yeah, that's true.

686
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,600
I didn't think about that.
Yeah, you know, But you know,

687
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,560
it's just a harmless little
prank, you know?

688
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,000
Well, I like this too.
You've got going back to Jack O

689
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,280
lanterns.
You know, in the British Isles

690
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,400
that that term referred to
someone who's keeping watch at

691
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,040
night or a man that has a maybe
a guy named Jack who has a

692
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,600
Lantern and he's just keeping
watch.

693
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,280
Yeah, yeah.
So just a watchman with a

694
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:39,360
Lantern, this kind of patrol in
the cities, it came to mean also

695
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,520
those bog lights.
So the swamp lights.

696
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,239
So they, you know, they, they
don't know what's going on.

697
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,360
You look out in the middle of
this swamp or this marsh or the

698
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,719
bog or the, you know, whatever,
where they have this peat and

699
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,960
stuff that's decomposing and you
see this like little bright

700
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,440
light.
You're like, whoa, what?

701
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,480
Is that yeah.
And, and, and what is

702
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,480
fascinating is that like what we
think about Jack O Lantern and

703
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,320
even I, I was reading like maybe
gourds were the not even

704
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,800
pumpkin.
Some of the stuff, you know, the

705
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,640
1830s like it's, it's not like
this is going back to, you know,

706
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,320
Pope Boniface in the 600.
It's not like going all the way,

707
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,320
you know, crazy back.
It's relatively that's

708
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:19,280
relatively, you know, recent
there of of kind of using these

709
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,000
turnip speeds, pumpkins,
whatever and, and using that

710
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,680
tradition and kind of updating
it a little.

711
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,800
Bit yeah.
And so they would they carve

712
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:31,280
these different types of gourds
or melons and they'd call it the

713
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,440
Jack O Lantern.
It was the guy keeping watch.

714
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,920
You know, I like it with.
Light just on the front porch

715
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,760
it.
Wasn't it wasn't soul stealing

716
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,920
or or anything.
I mean, there could always have

717
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,120
been someone who said this guy's
keeping watch over our house.

718
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,640
But it's like, you know, where
do you, where do you go with

719
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,080
that?
So man, so big picture, circling

720
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,280
back around what's let's start
with the easy one.

721
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:52,800
Reformation Day.
Is it OK?

722
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,360
I've I've known people to dress
up like Martin Luther in the

723
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:56,480
past.
Maybe we link a picture?

724
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,280
There have dressed up as Martin
Luther in the past and yeah,

725
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,040
yeah, I say definitely celebrate
Reformation Day in some way

726
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,800
that's fitting for your family.
Talk about Reformation Day, if

727
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,240
you're a teacher or you know, if
you home school, it's a great,

728
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,320
it's a great opportunity.
Yeah, that's good.

729
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,120
So now, now the question of the
hour.

730
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,560
Halloween.
What?

731
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,760
What do you say?
Do we participate in this evil

732
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:20,640
thing?
Is it OK?

733
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:21,440
Is it not OK?
Where?

734
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,320
Where do we land?
Maybe.

735
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:28,720
I mean, if your conscience is
stirred against it, then

736
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:29,640
definitely don't, Paul would
say.

737
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:30,840
Don't sin against your
conscience.

738
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,160
Maybe, yeah, maybe inform your
conscience, but don't violate

739
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:34,440
your conscience.
Yeah, like maybe you'll look

740
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,520
into it some more because I
think some of this background

741
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,680
stuff is is helpful.
And so on one hand, I get that

742
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,920
if you grew up in some
environment and in your mind

743
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,200
you're going to be worshipping
Satan, you should not do it.

744
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:45,800
Correct.
Yeah.

745
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,200
If you're not, maybe there's
some more wiggle or to me, to

746
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,480
me, the worst part, there's two
sides of it.

747
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:56,840
There's I don't know how many
events are so family friendly

748
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,520
and community friendly as
Halloween.

749
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:01,280
It's like, what opportunity is
there?

750
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,000
That's like every all your
neighbors are like opening their

751
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,200
doors.
And then on the other side, I do

752
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,000
think some of the worst parts of
it are people use it to trust

753
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,040
really inappropriately.
That's like probably on the bad

754
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,160
side, not not even like a scary
thing, like just not dressing

755
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,120
right.
And then some people do really

756
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,560
lean into like the gore.
Maybe that's a little bit much

757
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,000
for, you know, to be just really
idle light or putting a

758
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,800
spotlight on that kind of.
Stuff it would be tough for me

759
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,360
to live in a neighborhood that
had like a 20 foot skeleton with

760
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,800
red eyes, right?
You know, I'm saying I don't

761
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,640
know if I'd had probably sell my
house and move.

762
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,080
It's if I had a neighborhood
light.

763
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,240
It's hard for my 7 year old too.
Can't he?

764
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:40,000
He has a he has a hard time and
so so, but I think I think there

765
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,480
probably is some some middle
ground depending on, you know,

766
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,920
are you saying, hey, I'm going
to hang out with with family and

767
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,120
friends and I'm going to be a
firefighter and this is fun or

768
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,240
I'm actively worshipping Satan,
Probably I'll do.

769
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:54,680
That and if you're handing stuff
out, throw a track in there.

770
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,080
I mean, the worst that's going
to happen is it gets thrown

771
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,520
away.
Yeah, this is this is just a I'm

772
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,240
always like very sensitive to
this.

773
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,120
If I ever we have a track
somewhere, I'm like, I got a tip

774
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,400
big If I ever am giving out
tracks, you got to give the good

775
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,320
candy.
You can't give, you can't give

776
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,720
erasers.
You can't give those orange

777
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,200
circus peanuts.
You got to give some Reese's or

778
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:14,560
something to give out tracks,
you know?

779
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,520
That's good.
That's good apples.

780
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,760
That's great potatoes.
Have you seen the guy who gives

781
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:20,360
out?
Potatoes.

782
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,360
That's actually pretty funny.
Yeah, he just puts them in a

783
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,200
bucket and like the kids chews
it over the candy and it's like

784
00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:29,200
crazy.
That that is that that's pretty

785
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:30,200
good.
I think that those are good,

786
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,120
some good parameters maybe to
keep in mind.

787
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,640
And I think, you know, I look
out at my neighborhood.

788
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,240
I don't think anyone's actively
worshipping sake.

789
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:40,600
Maybe there are some people,
there are some people who maybe

790
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,080
lean into it a little harder
than I would.

791
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,120
It's not my thing.
And and like, you know going

792
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:45,400
that.
Hard.

793
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,400
We don't ever decorate for
Halloween.

794
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,560
We decorate for the fall, you
know, put out some pumpkins and

795
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,520
scarecrows and orange and stuff,
but we don't ever put up like

796
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,720
spooky stuff.
And I know some people going

797
00:38:55,720 --> 00:38:58,200
back to your conscience, it's
like, like, you know, maybe if

798
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,440
they're coming out of an
environment, we're a kind of, it

799
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,960
kind of was dark and demonic.
And maybe it wasn't explicitly

800
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:05,960
demonic, but it was dark.
They might be like, hey, I want

801
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:07,760
to distance myself.
And that's probably a good call.

802
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:09,000
That's your.
Yeah, yeah.

803
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,480
That's.
Good, that's great.

804
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,960
Halloween.
Halloween, it is upon us.

805
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,040
We got it, we got it.
We got it covered.

806
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:16,800
Thanks.
Thanks, Michael, for doing the

807
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,160
legwork and that pamphlet for
helping us out.

808
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,680
That's our take.
Thanks for listening to Take 2.

809
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,960
Find us wherever you find
podcasts and on YouTube for

810
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,720
those who want to watch our
video cast.