Theology Proper | Immanence

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OK, Zach, so a couple episodes
ago you introduced to me some

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moxie.
Oh yeah.

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Have you gotten that's aired
right?

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Yeah, that's.
Aired button that's aired.

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Yeah.
And any of the family give you

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any feedback on it?
Lot, lot of feedback.

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They are.
So it's going Moxie.

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Moxie reached out to me.
Sales are just going through the

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roof, yeah.
Yeah, so I thought maybe, you

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know, we had just gotten some of
these and they may not be

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available everywhere.
They're called poppies.

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I see.
And it is a soda if if you're,

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you know some of my Arkansas
family Coke.

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That's right, yeah.
Or some of my Michigan family

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soda pop.
Oh yeah, you cover the gamut.

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Man, Yeah, yeah.
But it's a probiotic soda, so

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there's a little bit less sugar,
and it's supposed to have, you

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know, Have you drank kombucha?
I have, yeah.

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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So it's supposed to have some of
those.

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Those things you like?
Kombucha.

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I do like kombucha, yeah.
I I like kombucha too, like the

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taste is fine.
I it's more of a mental thing

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with things floating around in
my drink.

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I don't like that, but I know
that's like.

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I really like the ones that are
like in this this sorry, I keep

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hitting these boom stands, but
it's like that really dark black

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brown glass.
Oh, yeah, yes, yeah.

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And you can see like there's a
layer on the bottom.

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And I really think you have two
options.

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Don't shake it at all, and then
don't drink the very end of it

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or shake it up so you get a
little bit with either drink.

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Yeah, but you don't want to
leave that stuff and then drink

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it all at the very end.
Well, I'm, I'm excited.

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We got a watermelon flavor here.
So I thought maybe we could, you

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know, we're gonna try watermelon
and lemon lime first.

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Lemon lime, that's.
That's a little bit, yeah, mild.

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That's good.
All right, So we'll just give

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you some of the lemon lime.
Give me some of the lemon lime.

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By the way, behind the scenes, a
lot of drama about which which

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cups everyone got.
So I, I, I, I was like, I have

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to have the dad.
You can have the mom one.

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Oh yeah, the it's got notes of I
don't know.

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Yeah, maybe I poured too much to
to drink all this and get to the

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the watermelon.
I don't know.

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You got to chug.
It it's that kind of podcast

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we're chugging all right, and
it's not bad.

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It's not bad.
Is it like it's like, is it less

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carbonated I.
Think it's less sugary?

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Less sugary.
Yeah.

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So they're they're trying to
make it healthier.

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They're trying to make it
something that you would enjoy

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and drink, but you know it's
it's good for you as a a calorie

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drink can be other than milk
there.

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You go I, I. 25 calories is not
bad.

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Not bad at all.
Let's try watermelon.

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Oh yeah, we should.
Audience can really hear the

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poor.
Yeah, right up to.

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The right up to the mic, all
right.

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OK, I think my family prefers
watermelon.

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I like the watermelon.
It goes away pretty fast.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And and watermelon, I feel like

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it's one of those flavors it's
hard to it's.

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Hard to be be wrong on it, yeah?
Yeah, it is good.

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Well, you know, look, I might, I
don't drink a lot of Coke or

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soda, but it's good to be, good
to be.

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Are these reasonably priced or
are these about the same?

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Are they expensive?
I think they're maybe $1.25 a

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can.
I don't.

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Know what but everything's.
Expensive.

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So it's like it's more expensive
than buying a case of soda, but

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less expensive than buying 1
soda at a time from a vending

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machine?
That makes sense.

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There you go.
That's a good way, good way to

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think about it.
There we go.

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So maybe, maybe there's more
stuff for us.

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The Taste Test Future Podcast
Send to send.

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Yes, if you if you want it like
the send in some something

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that's going to be good, not you
know.

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People are like watching them
eat this.

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Yeah, that's true.
Yeah.

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What is that?
There's a type of fish over in

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Norway that's like that that is
supposed to be really, really

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bad.
Yes, Yeah, don't.

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Send us that.
I'm blinking on what that what

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that is, Yeah.
Or or the stuff from Australia,

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the Vegemite.
Oh, that, that we'll.

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We'll skip out on those.
Yeah, no, thank you.

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We're good.
Send send us the good stuff.

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And yeah, cheers.
It's good all.

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Right.
So probably should actually talk

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about some type of podcasting
stuff too.

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We should somehow segue into
we're gonna be talking about

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theology proper.
This is the second class really.

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I mean second class on theology
proper.

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I mean just really an
outstanding class.

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Overall, great, great class.
A lot, a lot to take in.

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And yeah, we've got the didn't
catch the hints behind the

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choker.
This is this is the teacher,

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Michael Mott.
We got the person who who

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brought it to us these last
couple weeks.

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So let's go ahead and take it to
the next level from the hearts

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of the low country in South
Carolina.

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It's the Take Two podcast where
we take theology to the next

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level.
All right, Part 2 on theology

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proper.
And before I forget, I, I will

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try to remember to put a link to
the Google form.

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And I'm not, I mean, it's not
really necessarily looking for a

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response.
If you want to put a response in

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there, I I'll probably see it.
But really there's a list of

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resources that went along with
this class that if you're

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interested.
And it has my list of attributes

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kind of like whether they're
communicable or not, whether we

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know them by via Negativa or by
analogy, which we're going to go

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over and then some
subscriptional support for that

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attribute.
So that is out there.

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So, all right, so with that out
of the way, just kind of review

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the first class we talked about
transcendent properties, fact

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that God is transcendent, he is
other.

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Sometimes we call that holiness
and some people will attribute

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righteousness and holiness
together.

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And and I think that's because
we are called as people to be

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righteous and that sets us apart
from the world around us.

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But holiness in and of itself,
it means sanctify means to be

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set apart, means to be
different.

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So.
That's a good good distinction.

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Like what's its primary use and
and?

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They are related, but that's
definitely different.

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Yeah, yeah.
And so we talked about there

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being like two different ditches
here.

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We don't want to be any ditch,
so we don't want to be to the

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point where we are so stressing
God's transcendence that we say

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we can't know Him, or so
stressing His eminence where we

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would say, oh, you know, we can
fully understand him.

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But we got to have that tension
between them 'cause He has

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revealed himself to us in a way
that we can understand him, but

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we're never going to fully
understand Him.

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I, I like how you've got, if
you, if you look at last week

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and this week and you've got
these attributes side by side,

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it just great to be in both of
those.

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So you do get that balance
because you look at these

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different religions and it's
like for the most part, they

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either air I, I don't know if
another religion that has both

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of these things, right.
And that's you can see where

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being out of balance has major
implications.

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And so just to review real
quick, one of those that we

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talked about last week was
impassability.

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This one, for some reason, it's
weird to me that people are OK

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with go, oh God, can't change.
Oh yeah, right.

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Yeah, that.
One's easy.

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That one's.
Easy, Intuitive.

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I get it.
Yeah, I understand it.

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God doesn't have emotions.
God doesn't have passions.

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Well, to me those are almost
bound together because God can't

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have changing emotions if God is
immutable.

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Right, right.
And when you think of it that

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way, to me it makes a lot more
sense because what I think the

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average person reads it is going
to say, well, in Scripture, I, I

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feel like I read that God is
joyful or God pities this person

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or is grieving or is angry.
And I think that's the crux of

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it.
And so of course he has

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passions.
Of course he has emotions.

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And so I did get asked like, can
we believe those scriptures that

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say God repented or that God was
angry?

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And I I my answer to that yes,
and you and they tell us about

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how to understand God as he
interacts with his creation.

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It the same way you could
believe if I had penned you know

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Jill is a ray of sunshine in my
life.

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You could believe that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But I hope you wouldn't believe
that.

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Like she's has fusion in the
middle of her and she's like

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beaming out these photons.
You know you.

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Need sunglasses?
Right.

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It is a way of understanding.
Now probably that metaphor of

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Jill or that figurative language
of Jill is a bigger contrast

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than what we're talking about
here.

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But it's still, we have to kind
of understand that when the

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Scripture is being written that
way, it's being written so that

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we can understand, you know,
God.

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It's kind of help us see him
anthropomorphically or

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anthropopathically like that, so
we can understand him really in

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his transcendence.
Yeah, that, that, that's really

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good.
And I'm glad, you know, when you

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think of impossibility, it's
good to in your mind be like,

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this is the transcendent side.
And that's why he is different.

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And I like when you when you
talk about him being outside of

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time, it's, it's really the only
way he can kind of operate with

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that fixed disposition towards
different things.

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And it is confusing because he
can almost have, You can correct

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me if I'm wrong with how I'm
saying this, what can seem like

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conflicting dispositions towards
the same person at relatively

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different times.
And that that's confusing.

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But it's because we are
experiencing unfolding of events

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and sequencing.
He's not.

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Yeah, Let me maybe give one more
example.

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You could say, Jay, there's no
way to go into the park today.

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And then he goes and cleans his
his room and you go, OK, you can

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go to the park.
You could, you know, taken

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literally, you're contradicting
yourself, but maybe in your mind

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you're like Jay, I told you
earlier today, your room has to

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be clean.
There's no way you're going to

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the to the park with your rooms
like it is.

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But then the circumstances
change.

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And so you had a fixed
disposition towards Jay going to

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the park with a dirty room.
But now that the circumstance

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changed, you're you saw the
fixed disposition circumstance

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changed.
Now his room is clean.

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Now he's free to go to the park.
I don't know if that helps, but

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you you.
I I think some of these are

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really good and God, God is I
just your theology, just the

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implications if your God is, you
know, hot and cold one second to

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the next or unpredictable or
capricious in any way that

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that's just a we would say
that's not the God of the Bible.

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I think most people get along
with that.

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So hopefully, hopefully that was
helpful.

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I appreciate you taking time
because probably the number one

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attribute that and it's just so
not intuitive, but when you

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start talking about it, I think
it makes more sense.

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That's good.
And so I started off the class

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with this wrapped gift wrapped
box.

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Did you wrap it yourself?
I.

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Did wrap it myself.
Nice, nice, yeah.

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I've been I don't wanna say I
pride myself.

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Wow, that's I've been, I would
say other people have

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complimented my, you know,
rapping abilities.

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I should have looked closer.
It looked, it looked really nice

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from I I was really hoping at
the beginning you're like, I'm

228
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,880
I've known to do some magic.
I was waiting for you to like

229
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,000
just talk to someone and it and
something was in there like you

230
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,480
would set them up and they
didn't know that would be, I

231
00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:28,840
don't know how you would have
done it, but that would have

232
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,400
been amazing.
Yeah, so you know, he mentioned

233
00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,080
that because I have done magic
tricks before, but not

234
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,480
illusions, not pure magic.
Sorcery.

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00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,560
Witchcraft.
Yeah, but but I set this up by,

236
00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:45,760
you know, passing around like
asking people questions about

237
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,120
it.
I was like, OK, what if I told

238
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,800
you that magically whoever is
holding this gift, the thing

239
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,440
that would be most valuable from
that person, like the best thing

240
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,600
that person could give appears
in that box.

241
00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,560
And we kind of pass it around
the audience and it's like,

242
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,760
yeah, what would appear if this
person was holding any etcetera,

243
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:04,560
etcetera.
And then I was like, OK, what

244
00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:07,040
would, what would, what would be
in there if, if God were holding

245
00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,880
this box?
And CBC came through.

246
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,760
That came through.
I don't think I even heard one

247
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,720
wrong.
I heard, I heard a couple and

248
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,960
they all were saying himself
next time, next time we just

249
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,800
need someone in there just
saying something just just

250
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,360
ridiculous.
Like $1,000,000.

251
00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,080
That's great, 'cause I also want
to shout out to Alex.

252
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:28,480
Always got something great to
say.

253
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:29,960
Is he the one who said vote
time?

254
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:31,960
I don't know.
He said he he's always saying

255
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,480
hilarious things, Yeah.
Yeah, he, he, Yeah.

256
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,640
Anyway, it's good stuff.
Sorry but but but your your

257
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,360
greater point is God gives
himself to us.

258
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,080
I mean these attributes we can
relate to him.

259
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,800
Yeah, so he gives himself and
there's there's lots of

260
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,400
different ways he's given
himself to us.

261
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:53,200
He created us, you know, he made
himself known to us, you know,

262
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,120
so by by doing that alone, he
has given himself to us.

263
00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,520
But when he created us, he
created us with the image of

264
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,680
God.
And so the things that we talked

265
00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:05,040
about last week, he can't give
to us, but these things we can

266
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,120
share in with him.
We're not going to have them to

267
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,760
the same measure or the same
degree.

268
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,520
And then, of course, on the
cross, he gave himself to us so

269
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,200
that we could be reconciled with
him.

270
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:18,000
And so that biggest gift that he
can give is himself.

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00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,560
And so we're going to be talking
about these different attributes

272
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:22,920
and these attributes are
different than the ones as we

273
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,480
talked about last week, last
week, we're all negative in some

274
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:27,720
sense this week going to be
positive.

275
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,000
And when we talk about positive
attributes of God, we we say

276
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,840
that we're calling them by
analogy or we're ascribing to

277
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,080
God by analogy.
And we always kind of use this

278
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,640
thing to set up, you know, if I
were to say, you know, man,

279
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,360
this, this dog is a good dog, we
can kind of have an idea what

280
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,000
that would mean.
Even on the screen, I showed you

281
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,800
kind of a generic dog and I
showed a duck hunting dog.

282
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,760
Like now you know, you know,
your, your attributes of a good

283
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,720
dog might change if you know
that it's supposed to be a duck

284
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,040
hunting dog, which kind of plays
into this because now I'm going

285
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,920
to say, what's a good father?
Will the attribute change it

286
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:09,120
again, because the attributes
are based on the creature or the

287
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,920
being that we're ascribing this
predicate of good.

288
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,640
So then if I were to say God is
good, well, we wouldn't mean

289
00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,840
what we mean by a a good dog or
a good father.

290
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,680
It's a different.
But we kind of have something

291
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,880
there, but we're not like, oh,
he shows up on time to work.

292
00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:27,640
And you know, that would be
absurd, right?

293
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,040
I like that.
It's a good way to set up these

294
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,760
communicable attributes.
And I don't know if we, we think

295
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,720
of these, you probably have some
good definitions ready.

296
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:41,640
I think as we talk about maybe
later on the Trinity, later on

297
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:46,120
talking about the hypostatic
union, some of these words are

298
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,280
hard for us to grasp words like
I think we know what a person

299
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,960
is, but what's like a good
definitions or conscience or

300
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,760
will some of these things, I
think they're important to know.

301
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,680
And it might be this might be
over just making a super simple

302
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:00,840
and maybe we don't need to do
this.

303
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,160
But I think when we when I think
of things like that, it helps

304
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,520
make other stuff a little bit
more more clear.

305
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the first one you mentioned

306
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,680
was person.
And he is a person, He's not a

307
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,280
force.
And kind of the things that

308
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,840
follow directly behind that
would be what we would say.

309
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,720
What makes a person a person?
They're they're conscious,

310
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,720
they're self aware.
They have some type of

311
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,920
intelligence.
Sometimes we would say God is

312
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:27,880
omniscient.
Well, we would say that or his

313
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,720
wisdom kind of all those are
different aspects of his

314
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,120
intelligence.
He has a will, He decides

315
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,000
things, he decides them from
eternity.

316
00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,800
But so it's not like he's
discursively deciding things,

317
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:43,000
but he decides things.
And so and you hopefully you can

318
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,240
see, oh, I'm a person, I'm self
aware.

319
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,080
I've got some limited
intelligence.

320
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,080
I can decide things.
And so those attributes he

321
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,640
shared with us and really kind
of when you pair all those

322
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,160
together, you have this other
quality of moral.

323
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:05,760
I, you know, I, if a lion goes
out and, you know, kills another

324
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,760
lion and kills all the Cubs and
like puts the lionesses in the

325
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,400
heat so that he can mate with
them and have his own Cubs, we

326
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,920
don't go, man, that's an immoral
monster.

327
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,880
Yeah, cuz, cuz even the most,
maybe not the most, but some God

328
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,320
hating person would hold
humanity to some sort of

329
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,640
standard and on some level,
right.

330
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,040
Maybe not, maybe there's,
there's people out there, but

331
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:31,400
it's there's a clear difference
with animal behavior and human

332
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,720
behavior.
And people want to compare us so

333
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,560
much to animals.
But at some level, yeah, people

334
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,040
aren't freaking out.
They're like, well, that's just

335
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,120
the circle of life or that's
nature or whatever.

336
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:40,920
Yeah.
Yeah.

337
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:42,720
And so we would say God is
moral.

338
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,280
Now this is by analogy.
So how I am moral is different

339
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,160
than how God is moral, because I
am moral by trying to live up to

340
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,040
God's standards.
God is moral by being God

341
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,800
himself, like he.
It is in his nature, you know

342
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,920
the good.
Our standards of good are

343
00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,680
defined by God's nature,
Himself.

344
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,760
That that's a good way to put
it.

345
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,760
And you alluded to this when you
talked about intelligence and

346
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,000
wisdom and omniscience.
But part of the challenge with

347
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,599
these communicable attributes is
that you're a list could could

348
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:12,680
be endless.
It could it's like, how do you

349
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,359
and you look at different
confessions or different

350
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,640
systematic theologies?
Everyone lumps them in slightly

351
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,599
different.
And so don't feel like Michael's

352
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:23,280
we've left out one.
It's because they're all kind

353
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:24,800
of, you know, it's impossible,
really.

354
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,560
I'm trying to hit the big ones
and I didn't even like, I have

355
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,840
more on my list here that we're
looking off of than I actually

356
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:35,320
even had on the PowerPoint.
But so He is love.

357
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,960
You would see this in Scripture.
God is love.

358
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,560
He is goodness.
Sometimes we would countenance

359
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,760
that as Omni benevolence or
righteous because of his love.

360
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:50,080
He is just, he's a just God.
He wants to have what's right

361
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,520
out of his justice.
With would come wrath and

362
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,600
jealousy.
And you can see, again, I just

363
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,360
want to keep as we go through
kind of a group of these,

364
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,160
hopefully you can see, oh, I can
see that God has those

365
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:06,440
attributes and I can see that he
has shared some of that with me.

366
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:11,160
Hopefully I can be loving.
Hopefully I am good to extent.

367
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,360
You're not going to be Omni
benevolent like he is.

368
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,880
Hopefully you love justice.
And you know not that you want

369
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,080
to see someone, you don't
rejoice in the punishment, but

370
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,200
you rejoice in justice when it
happens.

371
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,480
So hopefully you can see those
types of things.

372
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:32,000
Yeah, I think just going through
through this list and reflecting

373
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,360
on it, it I think you can learn
a lot about ourselves and where

374
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:40,320
we kind of missed the mark two
and and we see how how great God

375
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,200
is.
And and really this list spans

376
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,320
the gamut from things like being
conscious and having a will to

377
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,400
being creative.
And it's it's it's a very broad

378
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:54,600
list in in that sense too.
And I think one that I think

379
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,760
people might struggle with, two
at the outset is when you read

380
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:03,040
things in line with justice God,
God's a jealous, God sounds,

381
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,760
sounds a little bit.
When I'm jealous it's not good,

382
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,760
but when God jealous it is good.
It it could be good if you're

383
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:16,360
jealous in a non sinful way.
So like if Leanne was spending

384
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:19,400
time, it wouldn't even have to
be like with another man, but

385
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,800
maybe she was just really
wrapped up in something that

386
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,640
wasn't good for your covenant
relationship as a husband and

387
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,680
wife.
You know, you could be in a good

388
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,920
sense jealous for her to return
to that covenant relationship

389
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,600
that you have with her.
And so and that and we would say

390
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,560
that God has a covenant
relationship with us as his

391
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,360
people, but he also has a
relationship to us as, you know,

392
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:43,880
creator creation.
And so he can be jealous of that

393
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,880
rightful relationship that we
should have with him.

394
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,360
And so it's, you know, but you
could the badge you all see is

395
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:53,560
like when you see someone that
has something that you just

396
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,000
want, you kind of that's we got
a synonym for that would be like

397
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:57,880
coveting.
Yeah.

398
00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:58,600
I.
Think that's good?

399
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,560
I point out that one because I
think that one's maybe the most

400
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,680
stark way we can see that.
But we can have, you know, along

401
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,240
those same lines, when we're
angry, it can be good, but it

402
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,200
cannot be good.
But the same token.

403
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,400
Our grace can be good and not
good too.

404
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,200
Like I was trying.
You know, you start jealousy is

405
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,560
weird, but then we can let
things off the hook that we

406
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,240
shouldn't in some capacity,
right?

407
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:18,160
Right.
Yeah, yeah.

408
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,240
I think that's great because all
of these we're not going to

409
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,560
exhibit perfectly.
And so we could be too gracious

410
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,040
with someone where we should
really kind of toe the line with

411
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,680
them sometimes.
But yeah, that so the next one's

412
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:35,600
kind of His mercy, His grace,
his faithfulness, Providence

413
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,560
kind of goes underneath
intelligence.

414
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,280
Here's another one, the omnis.
We wouldn't want to leave off

415
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,480
omnipotent.
So he has all power.

416
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,440
We you go, how do we share that?
Well, he has given us a measure

417
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,720
of power.
We don't have the Omni part of

418
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,680
it, but we have the ability to
affect things and people around

419
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:53,200
us.
So.

420
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,160
Now that that that that's great
alluded to it, creativity, the

421
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,400
ability to, you know, problem
solve and build things.

422
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,560
We can't build things out of
nothing, but we can still build

423
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,960
things and have solutions to to
this world and use this world

424
00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:09,960
engineer it for for different
purposes.

425
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:15,400
Patience that that that's a good
one and joy and peace.

426
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,440
Really, really we can.
Do it's hard.

427
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,640
To keep.
Going on, because I saw people

428
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,760
like Will all the fruit of
spirit you could list there, you

429
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,880
know, all, you know, So all of
the things that you could, you

430
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,200
know all of these things like
you said it, we could keep going

431
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,800
on because we're describing
discursively all the attributes

432
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,640
of a transcendent holy God.
It's really hard, hard to

433
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,880
describe.
And in some sense, because God

434
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:44,360
is simple, God's love is just, I
mean, not it is in that sense.

435
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,040
So God's love is wrath.
God's love is mercy.

436
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,240
It's, you know, we kind of
compartmentalize things so much,

437
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,760
but all of these really express
another attribute.

438
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,400
It just, you know, maybe a
different emphasis or something

439
00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,800
like that.
They're not totally separate.

440
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:00,080
Yeah.
And.

441
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,120
Like this love and wrath and
justice kind of being wrapped up

442
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:05,640
together.
Like if you saw someone, an

443
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,640
innocent kid, you know, being
harmed, your love for that kid

444
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,120
would be tied to your wrath
towards the the person who's

445
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:14,520
harming them.
And so you can see how they

446
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,120
would flow out together.
That's great 'cause I think it

447
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:19,320
is easy to just be like, well,
God's merciful here.

448
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,680
And it's like really, these are
all very connected.

449
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,160
And when they are connected,
that's why God is God.

450
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,120
And we missed the boat 'cause
we're doing a wrong kind of

451
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:30,200
wrath or whatever, whatever it
it may be.

452
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,400
What else we want to talk about,
about these, about God's

453
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:35,360
eminence?
Well.

454
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,200
We did.
I'll just touch on it 'cause we

455
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,720
have talked about it before, but
we have talked about his

456
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,080
knowledge, his way of knowing.
And we've said, you know, he

457
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,600
talked about his natural
knowledge being knowledge of all

458
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:52,000
possibilities, his free
knowledge being his knowledge of

459
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,440
what he's freely chose to do.
We said there might be some

460
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,960
knowledge in between that of
things that creatures might do,

461
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,920
of the way things would be if,
you know, things were different.

462
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,160
We call those count.
Oh, I've lost the word.

463
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,040
Or it's about counter or
counterfactuals.

464
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,160
OK, yeah, yeah, I thought I knew
it, but I'm like, not the

465
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,600
philosophy guy.
So yeah, I got you.

466
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,520
So counterfactual, so like
things of what would have

467
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,720
happened if something had been
different.

468
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:21,880
So we call that middle
knowledge.

469
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,880
Some people have used that to
support Mullen ISM.

470
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,840
I don't think neither one of us
subscribed to Mullen ISM.

471
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,520
Get out of here.
And I'm not even sure you

472
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:30,960
subscribe to Middle Knowledge.
I don't know if.

473
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,080
I'm conventionally I, I, I've
come around.

474
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,360
At first I kind of rejected it,
but I think after thinking it

475
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:40,000
through, I think there's a way
where it can be done, done

476
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,840
right, right.
Yeah, I think what I think what

477
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,360
when we were talking about
before, 'cause we were talking

478
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:48,160
about like the deck of cards
that he has dealt.

479
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,960
Like yes, but he has an infinite
number of cards.

480
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,200
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
different.

481
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,160
And I think it just presented so
poorly or in that Molinism

482
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,560
framework that's I'm like, don't
love that 'cause I think a lot

483
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,520
of these people, their different
systems influence their thought.

484
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,000
And it's, you know, I don't like
this part, but I like this part.

485
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,160
And so I think I think that that
helps out a lot because that's

486
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,720
something we probably don't
think about a lot, but it does

487
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,640
point to how great our God is
and how his decrees come to pass

488
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,200
and how he knows everything.
All right, So we did talk about

489
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,840
the Trinity, but I think we're
going to save that for a future

490
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,920
podcast, maybe give it its own
little spot because.

491
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,520
Trinity Pride deserves its own.
I like that.

492
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:32,240
That's good.
Yeah.

493
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,000
All right.
So I don't have anything else to

494
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,320
say about theology proper.
Hey, second time around maybe,

495
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:39,960
maybe we did a little better, I
don't know.

496
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,400
Hopefully, hopefully, thankfully
we found it like halfway through

497
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:44,480
so.
Thank you, Michael.

498
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,960
So, so glad for that.
Well, thanks for hanging in

499
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,160
there with us.
That's our take.

500
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,120
Thanks for listening to Take
Two.

501
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,480
Find us wherever you find
podcasts and on YouTube for

502
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,200
those who want to watch our
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