Yom Pt 2 – Which Interpretation Is Best?

1
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Well, you ever made a bad
decision, Michael?

2
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No, never.
Sorry.

3
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Silly question to ask you you
made a bad decision about an

4
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hour and a half ago.
Ada.

5
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I do this thing where we talked
before.

6
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I feel like I'm being healthy
because I don't eat all day.

7
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Then I'm just like so hungry.
And so got home a little early

8
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from work and waiters like, oh,
you're probably podcasting will

9
00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,440
do something different for
dinner with the boys.

10
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And so just so hungry.
Put in a I I started out kind of

11
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healthy.
I I fried up three eggs.

12
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OK, Yeah.
We're tracking.

13
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This is where it goes terribly.
Wrong.

14
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Let me just say the the recent
literature on eggs has come out

15
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like in rave support.
I guess I saw something about

16
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people who ate so many eggs a
week had.

17
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Oh the yeah.
Less mental health issues as

18
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they got older, less
cardiovascular issues like so

19
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eat your eggs.
So I'm starting up good.

20
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I didn't I I left out a little
bit worse thing that I did.

21
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I put in, got one of those like
Pillsbury, like grand biscuits,

22
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like the 8 count thing, put it
in the oven and so I made.

23
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And you ate all 8 of them.
I only ate 6.

24
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But boy 6.
Are there carbs in those things?

25
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Yeah.
I can't, can't be good for you.

26
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But I I was doing this thing
where I was like, I got one

27
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biscuit and I put an egg on it.
It was like a little egg

28
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sandwich.
Then I did it again.

29
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Then I did it again and then I
just say 2 just normal biscuits

30
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and I was like I want dessert.
So I put you on it right now

31
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and.
Then I put like Jelly on one of

32
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them for my, you know, and my
kids were like, dad, are you

33
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just eating all of these?
Like I was like, well, you're

34
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eating dinner and and, and
they're like, do you really need

35
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that mini sale?
It's probably aggressive, but I

36
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haven't that's my meal for the
day.

37
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Doesn't make it doesn't doesn't
make it good.

38
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So you've been you were fasting
up until that.

39
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Correct.
Yeah, Yeah.

40
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Yeah.
So I mean, that's that counts

41
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for something.
Yeah.

42
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But this is what I do when I
fast.

43
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I am like, ridiculously
sometimes if you wait long

44
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enough, it's like it goes like
it goes away better, you know,

45
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when I'm hungry, man.
Yeah.

46
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It came back, came back to bite
me.

47
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So my typical, you know, we were
talking about finances last,

48
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last, and I thought about
mentioning this, you were

49
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talking about eating now on, on
lunch a lot.

50
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But what I have done is bought
some like bulk stuff from Sam's.

51
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I have them in my cube at work.
And then like I just had the

52
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same thing over and over again.
So it's like some protein bars,

53
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a protein shake, that fair life
thing, Slim Jim, that's protein

54
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and some fat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

55
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And I got some pistachios.
Nice.

56
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So you're like really crushing
that high protein.

57
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Yeah, yeah.
That's.

58
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Good and pop Tarts.
You have one.

59
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Vice in there, I know and like.
I love them.

60
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What kind of pop tarts?
So it's there's it's a big box

61
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from Sam's and they have two
smaller boxes of strawberry and

62
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then one blueberry. 1 cherry.
Let me tell you.

63
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Yeah, yeah, tell me.
I would not have told you this

64
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before 'cause I hadn't eaten a
lot of cherry.

65
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But Cherry is where it.
Is don't sleep don't sleep on

66
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cherry flavor.
Oh, it was good.

67
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So I, you know, I have one of
those packages a day and I, I'm

68
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a bigger guy and I feel like
people are always looking at me

69
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and I want to say like, this is
the only carb that I'm eating

70
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for all of my lunch.
It's gonna be OK.

71
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It's.
Gonna be OK.

72
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You know, I haven't done pop
tarts in a while.

73
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My this is, you know, this is a
little insight to the Hale

74
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household and nutrition like
Friday's pop tart day for the

75
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hell kids for breakfast.
You know, they love it.

76
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I never like love pop Tarts.
I do see this is my problem.

77
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I like pop tarts.
I just like peel up the crust

78
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and just eat all the inside, you
know what I'm saying?

79
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I.
Mean the the inside is the.

80
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Best.
It's so good.

81
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But do you toast them?
Always.

82
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Oh, yeah, 'cause if you toast
them, it's just like, Oh yeah,

83
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it's two different things.
That's right.

84
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Yeah, yeah.
That's right.

85
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And that's probably my problem
is that, you know, take a pop

86
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tour on the go.
Didn't have time to toast it.

87
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Yeah, it it is.
It's way different.

88
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Right.
It's like it crisps up the crust

89
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and it makes it, you know,
'cause if you don't toast them,

90
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the crust is just the.
Crust.

91
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That's what gets you the crust.
You gotta toast to get over the

92
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crust.
It's just like like Krispy Kreme

93
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is good all the time, but man
not but it's good on by the when

94
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it's hot and ready.
Boom.

95
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Honestly you buy Krispy Kreme
from like Walmart or something.

96
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I don't care for it.
Like it just, it's like.

97
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Doesn't have the same.
It's.

98
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Like I mean I hate it, don't get
me wrong, like I'm not crazy,

99
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but it's just not the same.
Yeah.

100
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Yeah, I don't think, I don't
think get back in the Pop Tart

101
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game.
How do you feel about the They

102
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have the what kind of brown
sugar, the cinnamon brown sugar,

103
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you know?
Cinnamon brown sugar, that was

104
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my go to.
Yeah, I like.

105
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That a lot, but I don't know I I
saw those again when I went to

106
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re buy.
So I'm on my second box after

107
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like a month or you know,
finally made it.

108
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Try to be healthy, get
strawberries and get the fruits.

109
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In there, right yeah, yeah,
fruits, fruits and veg, you know

110
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what I'm saying?
But I saw it and I was like, you

111
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know what, I maybe next time
I'll get the because they had

112
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one that was like the brown
sugar and I think maybe s'mores

113
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and chocolate.
And it's like, Oh yeah.

114
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So it's a whole different vibe.
Like I.

115
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Yeah, it is a different.
Yeah, I wish you could get like

116
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the best of both worlds, kinda.
It makes I think I prefer I like

117
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the fruit ones, but I do like
the brown some brown sugar.

118
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This pumped sugar just good.
Yeah, they are good.

119
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Man, some bad decisions, but
very, we made this pun the last

120
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time.
It's not even really a pun.

121
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It's very yummy.
Very yummy, Yeah?

122
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Yeah, yeah, Pop talks or Yammy.
So everyone at home is probably

123
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like they talked a lot about YAM
but not enough.

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I would another Yam episode.
Yeah, yeah.

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So we did talk about yam.
And so we're going to, you know,

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kind of do this is Part 2.
We won't be spending as much

127
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time on the word yam, but it is
like, you know, the the old

128
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earth, you know, discussion.
Ken Ham is rolling over in his

129
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bed because he's not dead.
Not.

130
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Yet.
Well, let's go ahead and take it

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to the next level.
From the hearts of the

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Lowcountry in South Carolina.
It's the Take Two podcast where

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we take theology to the next.
Level real quick Michael 32nd

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recap of of last week's episode.
Yom is a word that can be used

135
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more than one way.
Yes, 4 literal definitions to

136
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the word Yom can be when it's
light, a calendar day, a 24 hour

137
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period or a longer, you know,
unspecified amount of time.

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And so hopefully, you know,
hopefully the goal of last

139
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episode was just to answer, not
necessarily persuade you.

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You could listen to that episode
and go, yeah, OK, not persuaded,

141
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but hopefully you came away
going.

142
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All right.
Maybe it's not a closed, clear

143
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cut case that I thought it was.
Maybe there is some room to be

144
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faithful to the text and still,
you know, maybe not take it as

145
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24 consecutive, 24 hour
consecutive days.

146
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Yeah, maybe this would help our
listeners, too.

147
00:06:56,280 --> 00:06:59,360
Do you have good examples of old
Earth creationists other than

148
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,800
yourself, who you would say,
hey, these people are faithful

149
00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,040
to Scripture?
Like just to get some work gets

150
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,720
people in your mind because, you
know, Ken Ham, you got like John

151
00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,880
MacArthur you.
I mean, it's like a lot of

152
00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,520
people, because I think even I
got to look this up, it's like

153
00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,840
even some of the fundamentalism
issues in like the early to mid

154
00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,640
1900s, we're kind of based
around this indirectly.

155
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,520
Like they would wrap up
inspiration of scripture because

156
00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,160
I think it was pushing back
against evolution in the school

157
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system and that, you know, trial
and it was like missing, missing

158
00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,040
what you're saying, but it was
like kind of funny.

159
00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,000
And some of some of these like
drafts, they were like mentions

160
00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,240
like a literal 6 day, like in
the same sentence as a

161
00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,160
inspiration of scripture, right?
So anyway, yeah, are there

162
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people we can like?
Greg Coco.

163
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I should have known.
We should have known.

164
00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:48,560
Wayne Lane, Craig.
OK.

165
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:49,840
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, Hugh Ross.

166
00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,600
Yeah, Fuzz Rana, you may or may
not know that.

167
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Name but the fuzz.
Mr. Z, He's Fuzz, and Mr. Z and

168
00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,640
Hugh Ross are all from Reasons
to Believe.

169
00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:04,160
OK, Yeah.
I may be mistaken on this, but

170
00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,880
your your guy Piper.
I was going to mention he he's

171
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,200
the one guy you can look, you
can Google John Piper desiring

172
00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,880
God and old Earth creationism
and he's got a bajillion

173
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,000
articles, but not very if you
can find a couple times he like

174
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,800
alludes to it.
He he'll say like my I'm

175
00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:21,680
persuaded old Earth.
There's like one or two

176
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articles.
Don't talk about it a lot, but

177
00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:24,520
in there.
And I was like, and I think I

178
00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,640
could be wrong because I was
like trying to look into this

179
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,800
maybe a couple years ago.
I think he's a gap theory guy.

180
00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:34,400
I think OK.
So created long period of time

181
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,960
where like the stars and
galaxies were doing stuff and

182
00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:39,600
then boom boom boom on the
earth.

183
00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,360
I, I think so it's just hard to
say 'cause he does not develop

184
00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,240
his, I guess he's got a few
things, but he kind of like

185
00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,080
stays out of that conversation.
Maybe he feels like that's a not

186
00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,080
a specialty and like more to
like that's like not where he's

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00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,400
going to focus and maybe not.
Stephen Meyer, Michael B.

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00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:59,440
He is Grudem.
I, I don't know that for sure.

189
00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,880
It just when you asked me that
question, I think he is.

190
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:03,720
Grudem is, I think you're right.
Yeah.

191
00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,080
Yeah, I think you were right
about that because he took like

192
00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,080
in his, he does like a Sunday
school with his systematic

193
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:11,920
theology and he gets a lot of
pushback in his class.

194
00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,280
And he's just like, hey, these
are my reasons.

195
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:15,440
I don't know if you mentioned
this.

196
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,000
Because I know Augustine.
Yeah, yeah, you're like Peter,

197
00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,720
Apostle Peter.
You're like, that's great

198
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,800
because in this podcast you're
going to get broader to like

199
00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,840
objections or like.
Yeah, we'll cover some of the

200
00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,160
same objections we had last time
just to recount because this you

201
00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:40,160
may have missed the first one,
but and then we'll also talk to

202
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,440
some objections that aren't
necessarily text based because

203
00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,760
all of our ones last time were
texts of the Bible based.

204
00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,400
Great, I love it.
Well, give me the overview.

205
00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:50,760
What?
Give me a lay of the land.

206
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:52,960
Right.
So we've got our already talked

207
00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:54,240
about.
Oh yeah, we kind.

208
00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:55,680
Of young earthers.
Yeah.

209
00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,200
And we're defining that as
somewhere in that six to seven.

210
00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,840
I think it's 6 and some change.
I don't know the exact number,

211
00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,920
but it's like 6700 years old I
believe.

212
00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:12,000
Really there are some young
earthers who would push back

213
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:17,720
against Uzak might say that
you're a compromiser because

214
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,080
you're like a 1220 thousand year
guy.

215
00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:21,960
I've.
Lost the way.

216
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,640
Yeah, yeah.
And then there are old earth

217
00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,440
creationists like myself, and
there are many different types

218
00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,840
of old earth creationists.
I think like a Michael B, he

219
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:39,440
believes that God zapped.
I know that's not probably not

220
00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:44,280
the best word, but but he
miraculously changed DNA inside,

221
00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,320
you know, an embryo or something
and created new kinds.

222
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,800
I'm not for sure on that, but
you might have someone like that

223
00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:55,200
to someone who believes that God
created the different kinds, you

224
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,760
know, as full grown animals.
Like you mentioned gap theory,

225
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,440
there's day age theory, there's
I remember.

226
00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:06,360
I remember as a kid in like a
very conservative Christian high

227
00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,160
school, I remember very visually
science class, we would have

228
00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,240
like like course on creation,
like matching about all these

229
00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,920
like terrible theory, like gap
theory, like gap theory is bad.

230
00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,840
Like these things.
It's so funny, you know what I

231
00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:19,440
mean?
Like it's like that was, I think

232
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,360
that it was just such a thing
maybe like in the 50s and I went

233
00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,200
to a school, although in like
the 2000s, we were like, we

234
00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:26,600
always just say we're 50 years
behind.

235
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,200
So whenever the culture was
going through 50 years in the

236
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:30,360
past, it's probably what we're
dealing.

237
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:35,200
Yeah, so I just want to take a
moment to say all of the the

238
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,240
different categories that I just
named new, young and old earth

239
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,840
creationists all believe that
God miraculously brought about

240
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:49,400
life on earth and that he is the
one who created the heavens and

241
00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,760
the earth, you know, so.
These were in the bounds of

242
00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,960
orthodoxy, Adam and Eve,
literally.

243
00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:57,840
Literally Adam.
And Eve.

244
00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:02,200
Yeah, I was in.
Even William Lane Craig would

245
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:08,600
hold to a literal Adam and Eve.
I don't think Josh Swami Das

246
00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,560
holds to a literal Adam and Eve.
But these are these are like

247
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,000
most people.
Swami Das is not a household

248
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,160
name, you know, So you got to be
like in this.

249
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,920
Swami.
You got to be in this topic a

250
00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,720
little bit in order to have that
name be be.

251
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,400
Got should be like familiar with
that and then you're about to go

252
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,720
off the ledge where?
So the next category still

253
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,560
believes that God created the
physical universe and that God

254
00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:38,560
upholds.
It's hard to nail them down the

255
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,760
the process of life coming
about, but they would be your

256
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,160
theistic evolutionist.
That's a bad word.

257
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,640
It is a bad word.
And and I'm sure they were like,

258
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,120
you know, to me, I just want to
say, young earthers, we don't

259
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,720
have to agree, but we we're
we're in this together.

260
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,600
And I'm sure that the theistic
evolution would say to me, you

261
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,160
know, we don't have to agree,
but we're in it together.

262
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:01,760
But I'm like, no, you're too
far.

263
00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:08,480
But that is how I feel.
Because you know, if you hold to

264
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:13,800
a neo Darwinian atheistic, you
know, evolution model, you asked

265
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,960
what did God do?
And they don't really have an

266
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:19,320
answer.
I went down to they had a

267
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,160
symposium downtown maybe 10
years ago along and there was a

268
00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,760
theistic evolutionist there.
And, and some, some of them just

269
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:32,040
like to be called evolutionary
creationist, evolutionary

270
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,680
creationist.
But I'm going to we'll for ease

271
00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:37,240
of we'll just continue to call
them theistic evolution.

272
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,760
And I asked what God do and
like, well, God upheld it.

273
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,080
God was, but he didn't like
actually do anything.

274
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,720
Like all the mutations, I think
on their view are still random

275
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,440
and that if God were to do it
again it could come out to a

276
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,600
different.
And that's really how we got

277
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,400
Adam and Eve.
It's not like God created

278
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,160
directly Adam and Eve.
That came through the series of

279
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,320
evolution.
And Adam and Eve might even be

280
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,480
like like a framework or it's
like, not necessarily Adam was a

281
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,240
person, but it's like that's the
humanity or you know.

282
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,040
Yeah.
And it's very difficult for me

283
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:15,200
to say, like, here's a book that
God basically between maybe some

284
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,600
of his oral tradition that was
passed down to Moses when he

285
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,440
wrote it down.
But, you know, I think for the

286
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,040
most part, God is giving Moses
this revelation while he's on

287
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:28,760
Mount Sinai.
And you know, what's the purpose

288
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,520
of saying, you know, here is how
everything started.

289
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,480
It was good, and here's how it
went bad.

290
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:39,200
If the very thing of explaining
how it went bad is metaphorical

291
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,160
or, you know, figurative, like,
OK, well, then where did sin

292
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,320
come from?
If Adam and Eve aren't literal,

293
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,360
there wasn't a literal fall.
If they evolved into

294
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,960
consciousness, then how, how did
they sin?

295
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,480
How are they, you know, are they
just acting according to their

296
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,640
DNA?
And how could that be bad, you

297
00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:58,400
know?
Yeah.

298
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,280
And then you run into real
problems when you get into

299
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,680
Romans and Paul's appealing to
Adam and he's like, are we

300
00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,800
appealing to a metaphor?
Like that's weird and not an

301
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,840
actual person?
Yeah, that's a really good

302
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,600
point.
But they still believe that

303
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,680
there is a God who created
everything.

304
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:17,480
So then there are some other
finer tooth categories like

305
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,480
deistic evolutionists.
So not at the.

306
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:21,840
Eric was founded on baby.
Yeah, yeah.

307
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:23,080
That's.
What we love that's right.

308
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,400
And then you're agnostic atheist
evolutionists.

309
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,880
So you know you're Richard
Dawkins would be in this area

310
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:33,360
type of.
Quick, quick quiz question.

311
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,000
I don't want to belabor it too
much, but in the United States,

312
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,080
do you know what percent of
people would consider themselves

313
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:45,520
atheists?
It's it used to be like around

314
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,800
.8%.
I would probably say it's up to

315
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,360
6% these.
Days, that's a really good

316
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,280
guess.
ChatGPT says 4% about 10 million

317
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:58,400
people.
Agnostics would be about 5% and

318
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,840
then people that say nothing in
particular, there's probably

319
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,440
got, but they're like more like
maybe there's not a guy like I

320
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:09,200
have no, no hard feeling that's
like 17 percents with like 70

321
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,840
plus percents playing some.
So I think that's good for him

322
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,880
too.
Because I feel like you feel

323
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,400
like science is against you or I
don't know, you know what I

324
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,200
mean, But it's really not bad,
the average.

325
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,720
Person and science, I know.
I just want to push back on what

326
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:24,680
you said there.
Science.

327
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:26,680
It's like the people in the news
and.

328
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,280
Science is never against you.
It's scientists.

329
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,360
Right.
But I might say pharma, I don't

330
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,360
really mean like pharmacology
doesn't make yeah, yeah, yeah,

331
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,120
people pushing medications and
stuff.

332
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,600
But yeah, yeah, I see.
Yeah, yeah, I just want to

333
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,920
because sometimes people will
say that science and faith are

334
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:45,520
against each other and like,
they're not really.

335
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:47,440
Right, right.
I see what you're saying.

336
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,240
I think they'd be like, well,
Fauci doesn't agree and he's

337
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,920
like the representative of
science, but I you're saying

338
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,000
actual science.
Or I might say like, you know,

339
00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:57,280
evangelicals.
I don't.

340
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,680
I mean, just like, you know, I
don't really mean the actual

341
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,760
people, but it seems like
there's like a movement and a

342
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,720
lot of people push a certain
thing or whatever.

343
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,319
But yeah, yeah.
So I think the difference of the

344
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,160
evangelicals, just to kind of
hone in what the points, yeah,

345
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,720
'cause it it the thing, the
parallel would be like

346
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,720
evangelism, evangelism,
evangelicalism.

347
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,760
Or you could, some people will
say like big Eva things this or

348
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,880
big pharma wants this.
And I would be like, well, I

349
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,680
would say I agree with that.
But I mean, yeah, pharmacy,

350
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,120
yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right, so last time we spent

351
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:32,760
a lot of time on Genesis.
Yeah.

352
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,800
And talking about YAM
specifically, we went over

353
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,480
different verbs that were in
Genesis.

354
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,520
We didn't spend a lot of time,
but we we covered it.

355
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:45,120
But there are other passages
that speak to the creation and

356
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:47,440
we're not going to go, maybe we
can list these.

357
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,280
So if people want to go find
them, if you go to Reasons to

358
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,240
believe, I believe they have
this here.

359
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,600
And I'll just plug Hugh Ross.
He has a book.

360
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,120
It's something like Unimaginable
Planet or something like that.

361
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:04,280
That's not the title, but it's
something like that.

362
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,400
But yeah, I would be listening
to this and it would be going

363
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,840
over all the you're going to
look it up for me real quick.

364
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,280
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, Hugh Ross, Something

365
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:15,680
Planet.
Oh, yeah.

366
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,320
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Hugh Ross.

367
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,360
Let's see what it is.
Oh, improbable.

368
00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:23,120
Planet, improbable planet,
improbable planet.

369
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,720
And I would be listening to this
and I'd be like, oh, this is

370
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,280
this is so good.
I would like crying on my way to

371
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,280
work, you know, talking about
how God you know's handiwork was

372
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:33,880
used.
But he's an old Arthur.

373
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,040
He's he's an old Earther, so.
He's OK, yeah, Yeah.

374
00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:39,720
But if you go to his website,
he'll have these different

375
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,000
passages.
But, you know, Genesis 2 through

376
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:47,840
5, they kind of give us the some
of these archetypal, you know,

377
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,080
that just to to, you know,
Genesis probably 3 through 5.

378
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:57,560
Well, 4 through 5 is more
confusing to me than one through

379
00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,280
3.
You know, where it's like Tubal

380
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,160
was the first person to play
instrument.

381
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:04,760
Yeah, it's a little bit odd.
Yeah.

382
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,520
Job 934 through 42, you're going
to see snippets where it talks

383
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:17,120
about God's power and creating
Psalms 819-3310, four one, 39147

384
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:20,840
and 148 going to speak different
aspects of poetry.

385
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,920
And there's some places in here
that give you things that say

386
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,240
something like he set a boundary
for the waters and it'll never

387
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,240
go past.
He set the laws in motion and

388
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:31,600
they'll never change type of
thing.

389
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:36,040
So there are like, do you take
those poetically or are they

390
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,760
really trying to tell us stuff?
You're going to talk, you see

391
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:44,880
some stuff in Ecclesiastes one
through 3, Isaiah 40 through 51,

392
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,840
Romans one through 8, you're
going to see some mentions there

393
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,240
a different creation.
You, you know, he alludes to

394
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,640
Adam there and, and stuff.
Colossians 1, Hebrews 1 and 4,

395
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:58,440
Revelation 20 through 22.
So if you read, if you're

396
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,480
reading all of your Bible,
you're going to see different

397
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,520
places where the creation is
assumed, where Adam and Eve are

398
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:08,560
assumed to exist.
And so I think very easily that

399
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:13,000
we can discount theories that
don't hold to a literal Adam and

400
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,520
Eve, and I think we can discount
theories that that hold to

401
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,600
evolution.
You're not going to see this,

402
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:25,600
you know, on your latest, you
know, popular thing.

403
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,960
But there's a lot of concern
amongst evolutionists,

404
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,160
evolutionary scientists right
now about the evolutionary

405
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,440
paradigm, you know, neo neo
Darwinian evolution.

406
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,680
So I say that because evolution,
we have a lot of different

407
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,960
definitions.
So when I'm talking about a

408
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,560
Finch be getting bigger or
smaller with the rainy seasons,

409
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,680
we're talking about, you know,
the common descent from a single

410
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,560
ancestor.
You know, macro evolution is

411
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,920
what some people might call
that, but there's a lot of

412
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,880
concern.
The time span for evolution to

413
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,640
happen is very, very small.
Even on the old Earth, there's

414
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,480
not a lot of time there was a
you can't really have life until

415
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:15,880
we get our ionosphere because
our ionosphere stops a lot of

416
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,720
radiation from the UV light and,
and, and stuff from the sun.

417
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,760
And between the ionosphere
forming and the Cambrian

418
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,640
explosion is like, it's pretty
small.

419
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,760
And we see in, you know, our
first hints of life and the

420
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,160
Cambrian explosion is even
smaller in our fossil record.

421
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,640
And at the Cambrian explosion we
have every single phyla of

422
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,720
animal body type present there.
Yeah.

423
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,320
So it's like, oh, what what
happened here where we have all

424
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:54,160
of these body types immediately?
Maybe there was a creation event

425
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:55,840
there?
Yeah, no, that, that's

426
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,600
interesting that there's, you're
saying there's been like they're

427
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,920
doing the math and they're like,
well, if you have billions,

428
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,720
billions of years for like every
little thing, it's hard to make

429
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,880
that happen when you start
really extrapolating.

430
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,320
Yeah, and you can dig into it.
There's a recent paper that was

431
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,440
written, you know, because
there's a famous like you give

432
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,880
monkeys long enough on a
typewriter, they can write the

433
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,720
works of Shakespeare and and a
guy actually was like that

434
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,360
actually is not true.
You can give them a a very,

435
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:26,000
very, very long, like infinite
time doesn't exist, right?

436
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:26,440
Yeah.
Yeah.

437
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,840
So we can't give an even.
If you made that like 10

438
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,400
trillion years, that changes
things dramatically.

439
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:34,240
Yeah, yeah.
Right.

440
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,320
Yeah.
So 10 trillion years is a finite

441
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:37,960
time.
They're still not typing out

442
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,360
the.
So any finite time period of

443
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:45,040
time, the monkeys are not typing
out Shakespeare's works.

444
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,840
So we maybe we have a separate
episode if we need to, to

445
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,760
really, you know, bomb evolution
some more.

446
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:58,080
But I think from merits, you
know, basically theistic

447
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,000
evolution, theistic evolution,
atheist, agnostic evolution,

448
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,320
they, they just don't stand.
And so really you're left with

449
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,840
God created stuff and we're all
on I, I think that's the bigger

450
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,880
picture here, that we're all on
the same team.

451
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,560
And So what you know, what's the
best way to understand, you

452
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,480
know, the, the textual stuff?
Nice.

453
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,400
I like that we're on the same
team.

454
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,120
Get those evolutionist out of
here and let's, let's, let's

455
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:27,240
have our, you know, intramural
debate.

456
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,160
Yeah.
So I got a question for you,

457
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:36,760
Zach.
When do you think that the Earth

458
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,600
is the center of the the solar
system?

459
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,840
Of course.
Me, me and, you know, way back

460
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,400
in the Middle Ages, we we all
think.

461
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,880
That Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you probably don't.

462
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,120
Yeah, right.
And but you know that the Roman

463
00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:54,360
Catholic Church for a while
taught that.

464
00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:00,240
And their reasoning was part of
their reasoning was most of it

465
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,600
was based on Aristotle's bad
physics.

466
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,720
But then they came along and
they strengthened that with some

467
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,240
verses like from the rising of
the sun to the going down of the

468
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,640
same in the name of the Lord
shall be praised like, well,

469
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,760
it's, it's clear right there.
The The sun is what's rising.

470
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:15,920
Wouldn't lie.
That's right.

471
00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:22,400
And and, and so I mentioned that
to say that if you have two

472
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:31,520
options that are both faithful
to the text, I it's OK to say,

473
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,360
all right, which one is better
supported from our physical

474
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:37,920
outside the text observations?
OK.

475
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,800
So choice A&B are both fine.
There's, you know, there's a way

476
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,120
to be faithful to the text,
interpret the text.

477
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,000
B has a lot of scientific
support.

478
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,240
A doesn't have a lot of
scientific support.

479
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,160
Which is the better read of of
that Bible verse?

480
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,240
Gotcha.
Yeah, yeah, you can go with the

481
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,080
scientific support.
It's it's.

482
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:57,480
It's within bounds.
Right.

483
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,120
And so based on that, I do want
to give some scientific support

484
00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:05,640
because assuming that last time
we, you know, I did my job and,

485
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:11,440
and demonstrated how you could
be faithful, then OK, let's give

486
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:17,080
some evidence that might sway in
that The Big Bang theory itself.

487
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,600
I've said this before.
I know Christians don't like the

488
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,320
term Big Bang.
We've been told that's bad

489
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,000
billions of years and Big Bang,
that Big Bang, that's bad.

490
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,960
You know, scientists don't like
the word Big Bang, at least the

491
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,480
ones who came up with it.
It was a derogatory term that

492
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,800
the scientists came up with
because The Big Bang meant that

493
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,320
there was a beginning of the
universe.

494
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,680
And we covered this in the Kalam
cosmological argument.

495
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,240
But if the universe had a
beginning, then and to have A

496
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,880
and to have a cause for it's
coming into existence, cosmic

497
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:55,440
background radiation.
We've observed that it agrees

498
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,480
with the, you know, expansion
theory of our universe.

499
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:05,080
We've done a lot of radioactive
decay and radiometric dating.

500
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:12,040
There is a book out there called
Rate that tries to undermine

501
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:17,920
this and I've read through it
again open minded.

502
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,960
I was AI taught nuclear power so
I feel like I understand

503
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,800
isotopes probably better than
your average person and was

504
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:30,320
unconvinced.
So yeah, their main argument is

505
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,880
finding helium in places that it
shouldn't be, but he then gets

506
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,840
into everything but all the
other daughter isotopes are

507
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,240
exactly where they're supposed
to be.

508
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,920
In school, that's what we were
always taught in like the

509
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,280
Christian School I went to was
like this, this the dating is

510
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,760
like suspect or you know,
they're always changing that.

511
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,560
This year they said it was this
much, but then 20 years later

512
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,600
it's this much, or that's what
they would say.

513
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,840
Yeah, but they never said 7000.
What do you say the never said

514
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,960
7000 years old for the for the
earth?

515
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:02,160
Yeah, right, right.
It was always like, why is it

516
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,920
like 13 million and now it's 2
billion or I don't know.

517
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,560
There's always, there are always
big numbers that I.

518
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,800
Know, right, right, yeah, yeah.
So I think radioactive decay is

519
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,160
fairly reliable and some people
have said well we have no, we

520
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,440
have no evidence that the half
lives have been stable over this

521
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,920
full time.
And I would say that's true but

522
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,480
all science works on this
principle.

523
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,480
So if you're going to throw all
those out, you got to basically

524
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,120
throw all your other your other
stuff out too.

525
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,720
I think this is one of the best
arguments here.

526
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,160
Starlight and distance.
Yeah, I think, I think going

527
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,360
back to your Wayne Grunden
point, he's like, does God set

528
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:39,240
up the universe to make him look
like a liar?

529
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,680
Or he's like, dude, is God
trying to lie to you and deceive

530
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:42,480
you?
Or you know what?

531
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,560
I mean, and I hate saying that,
but that's how I feel.

532
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,480
Oh yeah, I'm glad you said it
and not me though, because

533
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:50,760
you're the you're the new
Arthur.

534
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,000
Yeah, yeah.
So you would say like Adam and

535
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,080
Eve, no belly buttons because
that would be lying, right?

536
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,320
Right.
Like or you know, I.

537
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:04,000
I don't have a firm position on
Adam and Eve and belly buttons.

538
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,680
Do belly buttons serve a purpose
once you're an adult?

539
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,000
I don't think so.
I don't know.

540
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,400
So they, because they were
obviously they're not, you know,

541
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,560
born and they don't need the
belly button, you know, I don't

542
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:16,520
know.
Yeah.

543
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,400
And yeah.
And so we can riff on Adam and

544
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,760
Eve a little bit, a little bit,
because some people say, well,

545
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,880
Adam and Eve were created an
immature state.

546
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:26,120
Correct.
Yeah, Yeah.

547
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:27,320
Is that lying?
Yeah.

548
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:31,040
Yeah, and so, you know, maybe
the universe was created in a

549
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,880
mature state and you know who
Ross does a good job, better

550
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,640
than what I'll be able to do in
these 3 minutes.

551
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,760
But I'll try to be faithful what
he'll say, but he'll say there's

552
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,160
a difference between maturity
and age.

553
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:49,280
So like, you could have a mature
car versus an aged car and you

554
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,720
could tell the difference
between, you know, age and

555
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,640
maturity.
For Adam and Eve, the difference

556
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,520
between age and maturity might
be lack of scars, lack of

557
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,440
calluses, lack of certain, you
know, he mentioned, you know,

558
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,000
things that happen, that build
up in your bloodstream and your

559
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,840
veins as you metabolize, you
know, stuff that that wouldn't

560
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,800
be there necessarily, you know,
right, when they were created

561
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,800
because they didn't have any age
to account for those things.

562
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,200
But then, you know, would God
put in, you know, those waste

563
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,720
products?
Oh yeah, yeah.

564
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,080
That would show, you know,
metabolic processes and stuff,

565
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,120
those types of things.
And so I think Starlight happens

566
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,200
to be one of those 'cause we
observe supernova that are

567
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,720
further, thankfully further than
7000 light years away, right.

568
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:44,480
And so if you have a supernova
that occurs more than 7000 light

569
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:50,000
years away, that in order for at
the young on a young earth view,

570
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,200
that star never actually ever
ever existed.

571
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,440
His only thing that ever existed
was the light that came to us

572
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:03,320
and the the in the stream and
then the explode the light that

573
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,120
shows the explosion because it
would have had exploded.

574
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,520
So before, right, Right.
Yeah.

575
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,160
And Greg Hall has a good article
where he explains that you know

576
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,800
better than than I do.
So I think Starlight and

577
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,200
distance is a really good, you
know, there's some folks like

578
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:26,480
Lyle, I can't think of his first
name, maybe Eric Lyer, Dr. just

579
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,360
say Doctor Lyle, Doctor Lyle who
thinks that, you know, that the

580
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:37,040
speed of light is like 2 times
the speed of light going away

581
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,360
from us, but instantaneous
coming to us.

582
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,840
And that's how he tries to get
around with it. 1 is very ad

583
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,920
hoc.
You know, ad hoc just means it's

584
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,800
for this.
It's just like that doesn't make

585
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,760
sense.
But our Earth is like constantly

586
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,800
moving.
So, you know, there's be no way

587
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,560
for that light to be, you know,
coming towards us and stuff.

588
00:30:54,560 --> 00:31:00,840
But yeah, geological record.
We see layered fossils, we see

589
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,800
evidence of old, you know,
impact craters and stuff.

590
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:06,720
And we see them 'cause I 'cause
other side.

591
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,120
I feel like sometimes younger
creationists really like the the

592
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,800
fossils though, too, 'cause
they're like that.

593
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,240
That's like their whole thing
with like the flood and all this

594
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,120
kind of stuff.
But I feel like they embrace it.

595
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,920
But you're saying they like a
certain aspect of it, but then

596
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,080
the other aspect they don't
like.

597
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,120
Yeah, So Deltaket recently did a
series.

598
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,280
It's probably available on
Amazon Prime, maybe Netflix.

599
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,400
I don't know.
Remember where I saw it, where

600
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:35,880
he.
I think they go to the Grand

601
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,680
Canyon and they look at stuff
and he's saying, you know, we

602
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:44,760
have evidence that catastrophe
can make the Grand Canyon in,

603
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,040
you know, 502 hundred.
You know, I don't remember what

604
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,880
the date was.
Not like the slow, slow erosion.

605
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,680
I'm like that's I don't disagree
with that catastrophe can can

606
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:01,240
bring about some quick changes,
but that doesn't that doesn't

607
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:08,360
that maybe that maybe cuts off a
defeater for young earth, but it

608
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,480
doesn't disprove older, you
know.

609
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,000
What I'm saying I only the
reason I brought that up is wow,

610
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,560
we would be like gap theory so
bad.

611
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,400
We would spend a lot of time
saying grand Canyon's great.

612
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,160
This is so good for, you know,
specifically connecting it with

613
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:24,240
the flood and that kind of
thing.

614
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,760
Yeah, and I think maybe, you
know, I don't have strong

615
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,880
opinions on whether Grand Canyon
is very old or very young.

616
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,640
To me, it doesn't like I haven't
invested in there.

617
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,120
I think the fossil record shows
like no transitions.

618
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,280
So OK, we don't see the
transitions that you would you

619
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,520
would sit, you would hope to
see.

620
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:49,240
And Darwin said if we don't find
transitional fossils, then you

621
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:54,720
know, and you know, one body
form and then millions and

622
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,800
millions of years later another
body form, and millions and

623
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,080
millions of years later a
separate body form that is not.

624
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,240
How do?
You Yeah, yeah, you're just

625
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,880
saying a, a what if story.
And here's sorry to to to rich,

626
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,800
because there's a lot of you
know, you've probably heard of

627
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,520
Archaeopteryx, right?
Archaeoptic Archaeopteryx.

628
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,040
Yeah, have you heard of this?
It's the fossil that they claim

629
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,280
is a transitional fossil between
a reptile and a bird.

630
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:21,720
I'm.
Missing link of sorts.

631
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,120
And they always like, they draw
it like in this line, that

632
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,280
fossil is older than the thing
that you would naturally think

633
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,200
would have preceded it.
So it's like you're not, you're

634
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,520
not telling the the truth here.
So yeah, that that that's pretty

635
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,840
crazy.
So geological record.

636
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,880
Oh yeah, more plate tectonics.
Yeah, all this fun stuff.

637
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,720
Yeah, because you can measure
1/2 a millimeter every year or

638
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,120
whatever.
Like that's measurable, right?

639
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,840
Yeah, yeah, You can see like how
fast things are moving.

640
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,080
We have really good evidence
based on matching of rocks.

641
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,120
Like you can see South America
and Africa like they should go

642
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,200
together picture, you know,
pictorially.

643
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,680
But then, you know, you start
doing the things and you know,

644
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,320
our magnetic poles flip every
now and then and actually we

645
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:08,560
could be coming up on a flip.
But you know, you can use that

646
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,560
to line up rocks to and to see
that.

647
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,760
And yeah, that we can tell that
those land masses were once

648
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,440
together like based on
everything that we.

649
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,199
Know I was somewhere in Iceland
where this phenomenon has

650
00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:22,760
happened and they're like, yeah,
we just measure it every year.

651
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,760
And every year we get like 1/4
of a millimeter apart and it's

652
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,199
like, here's a picture from 100
years ago.

653
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:29,920
It's not that much closer, but
we're, you know what I mean?

654
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,120
It's like, and they can just
measure.

655
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,760
It's just like right there, easy
to, you know, do the math.

656
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:41,560
Astronomical observances, we can
see pulsars, quasar supernova,

657
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,840
we already talked about that
magnet, magnetic pole reversals

658
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,679
and ice cores.
So we can, you know, we see

659
00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:51,560
these, you know, lots and lots
of years of magnetic reversals

660
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,040
in the history.
We see lots and lots of years in

661
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,680
our ice cores.
And so, again, could God have

662
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,080
created that?
Yeah.

663
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,480
But like, why would he Like,
I'll, I'll, I'll, you know,

664
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,840
Champion Grudem.
Like it seems like if he went

665
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:09,760
through all this trouble to make
the earth have these marks of

666
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,720
age and the universe these marks
of age, seems like he'd be like

667
00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:16,560
deceiving us.
And I don't think that's in

668
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,600
God's nature.
Yeah, I think I don't know where

669
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,520
a lot of these people went to
went to school, but I feel like,

670
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,400
you know, it's like almost
tribal in the camps where if you

671
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,400
were like at Dallas Theological
Seminary, you're like almost

672
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,480
always going to air on the
younger side.

673
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,600
And then, like, if you're
gruedom, you know, you know,

674
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,800
conservative in the fact where
his undergrad, what's that

675
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:43,960
school?
He went like Fuller Theo.

676
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,160
It's like liberal now, like
Fuller, but then he would like

677
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,760
get his PhD at Harvard and
Cambridge and you know, like run

678
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,240
around.
And I feel like those people

679
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,840
tend more to really maybe even
just understand some of the

680
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,800
scientific stuff a little bit
better and kind of fall out on

681
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,400
that side.
Kind of same thing, you know,

682
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,760
with with the anyway, I don't
know if that there's a

683
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,320
correlation there or not, but
for for what it's worth.

684
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,440
And you got a bonus on here.
Oh, yeah, So addressing

685
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,720
objections.
Oh, the bonus, oh, these aren't

686
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:13,800
in conflict with Scripture, but
could they can be seen as part

687
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,440
of God's overall plan in
Revelation.

688
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,280
So Hugh Ross will talk about the
Book of Revelation, the book of

689
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,880
nature.
Those should align.

690
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,480
And I appreciate if you get
Grudem's biblical doctrine or

691
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,960
his systematic theology, he'll
basically say if we perceive

692
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:38,080
some inconsistency or some
conflict between Scripture and

693
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,560
the world around us, we're
misunderstanding one of them

694
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,840
because God's the author of both
of those.

695
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,240
So we should we should evaluate
those.

696
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,560
Let's address some objections.
All right, you want to read

697
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,720
these?
Yeah, You know, I feel like

698
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,320
we're just a slave to science.
And I even want to say maybe the

699
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,000
scientist, too, Not just
science.

700
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:57,360
Yeah.
Yeah.

701
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,680
Because you know what?
You know our conversation

702
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,120
earlier.
But yeah, aren't you just like

703
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,320
giving over to big science?
And I do hear this a lot.

704
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,920
Like I've heard someone say,
Michael, no one believed in the

705
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,720
old Earth until Charles Darwin
came around and proposed

706
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:16,640
evolution.
And you're just, you're just

707
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:20,480
giving, you're just doing this
because of, you know, you're

708
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,640
compromising with the
evolutionists.

709
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,920
But it's not true.
A lot of people thought that the

710
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:31,160
universe was eternal.
Like Aquinas said, really

711
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,600
there's no way to know that the
that it's not eternal other than

712
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,120
God revealed it to us.
But it could have, you know, so

713
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,640
there are a lot of theologians
throughout the years that

714
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:47,720
thought that the earth was much
older than, you know, the 7000

715
00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:49,960
years.
So it's not capitulating a

716
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,560
science and but you know,
science can help inform us.

717
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,200
It sounds like scientists got
you right where they want you

718
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:57,760
now.
Romans 5 talks about death

719
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,680
coming through sin.
You know, if sin, Adam and Eve,

720
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,200
there's no sin, you know, death,
that that's a problem.

721
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,280
Right.
And we, we talked about this

722
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,520
last time, Romans 5 has in
scope, I think just human

723
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,200
spiritual death.
You could broaden it to human

724
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,960
physical death.
And I still think that it, it

725
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,840
doesn't expand.
There's lots of plant and

726
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:25,120
microorganisms that have to die
even on a young earth view of

727
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:31,960
things.
If amoebas did not die, they

728
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,400
grow unchecked.
Like within three days they

729
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,000
outweigh the earth.
You know what I'm saying?

730
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,960
That they don't die 'cause they,
it's exponential.

731
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,000
It's like 1 becomes 22 becomes
4/4 becomes 88 becomes 16, you

732
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,920
know, And if you know your
powers are two, that that gets

733
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,760
really big.
So there had to be some some

734
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:54,760
type of cellular death and
Organism death before the fall.

735
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,760
How about this one, Exodus 2011?
It says God made everything in

736
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,440
six days.
We think Moses, just like loves.

737
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,240
Every book is not going to lie
in there.

738
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:05,560
Genesis.
Exodus.

739
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,960
Whatever.
Yeah, so addressed this last

740
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,880
podcast more detail, but pattern
matching.

741
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,440
So God worked 6 yams took and
he's resting in the yam.

742
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:19,000
That 7th yam is still going on.
And so we are to follow that

743
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,440
same pattern working 6 yams
taking a 7th yam off.

744
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:26,840
So it I don't think that's a big
defeater for for us.

745
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,240
But clearly you don't believe
God's all powerful because he

746
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:31,920
was powerful.
He would just create everything

747
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,520
instantly.
Yeah, and I have heard this too.

748
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,960
Like this was spoken to me by
person you may know they're not

749
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:43,400
at our church anymore and not
recently departed either.

750
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,680
Just put that out there.
But and I was and it this one

751
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,600
really got me for a while
because I thought you will.

752
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:54,400
But then I was thinking a young
Arthur doesn't believe that God

753
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,720
just snapped his fingers and it
was all there.

754
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,680
That's not what and that's not
what scripture tells us.

755
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:03,240
It says he created and then
there was some time period, I

756
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:06,160
won't call it a rest because I
don't want to evoke the 7th day,

757
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,440
but there was some time period,
morning and evening and then he

758
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,520
created again.
And then there was morning,

759
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,080
evening.
So all we're talking about is

760
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,360
the the length of that that
time.

761
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,000
Well, when you think about a
long creation, that's just not

762
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,560
efficient.
You're not getting work done.

763
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,560
God is like a productivity, you
know?

764
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,480
Yeah.
Well, God doesn't like for

765
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,160
resources.
He's outside of time.

766
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,600
He's all powerful.
So the process doesn't have to

767
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,840
be efficient necessarily.
But I will refer you again to

768
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,520
Improbable Planet.
And you know, the watch that you

769
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:48,120
have on your wrist and the phone
that you have and the gold and

770
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,280
the metal and the uranium and
all these heavy elements.

771
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,760
And to get us to where we are in
a safe place where we can

772
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,040
observe everything by natural
processes.

773
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,800
You know, there's a theory
called fully gifted creation

774
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:08,720
where it talks about basically
God created the physical aspect

775
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,960
so that it would unpack in a way
that was just how he wanted it

776
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,720
to be, right?
And our earth would set up in

777
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:19,680
this place just where we need to
be.

778
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,920
Like there's, there's so much
about where we're located.

779
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:24,720
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

780
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,760
Even in these huge structures
that if we were, you know, not

781
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,680
in this exact right spot, life
wouldn't be possible.

782
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,880
We wouldn't be able to observe
the universe, you know, all

783
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,520
these things that God did.
And so the fact that it

784
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,400
potentially took 13.8 billion
years, that's nothing to God.

785
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,640
You know, it's, it's a couple
days.

786
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,640
Nice, cool, someone needs to
mute their phone then.

787
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,080
That's me.
Shout to me.

788
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,320
Well, we're at the end here,
some final thoughts.

789
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,560
What you got?
Well, I wouldn't want to say

790
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:03,200
that we have some notes here,
but I'm going to, I'm going to

791
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,600
free roll this.
I want to say that I have no

792
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,560
animosity towards Young
Earthers.

793
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,400
I and I would.
And as an old Earther, I

794
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,240
appreciate not necessarily
having.

795
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,120
We can have debate, we can have
discussion.

796
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,000
You can tell me I'm wrong, I'll
tell you you're wrong.

797
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,400
But if we do it in a loving,
gracious manner, like, hey, I

798
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,360
don't think that's the right way
to read this.

799
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,440
And here's why I think that's
good.

800
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:31,480
And I think it's not helpful if
you know, we divide over things

801
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,680
like this or if I'm telling.
Your own church, that old Earth

802
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:39,840
13.8 church on the street, Yeah.
Yeah, or for me to call you a a

803
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:45,680
compromiser type of thing.
There's a guy at Southern

804
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:50,840
Evangelical Seminary where I
went to school for my masters,

805
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,360
Richard Howe Howe.
How do you say that?

806
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:56,360
How?
Do you spell that?

807
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:57,760
How, How?
I'm kidding.

808
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,440
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got.
You.

809
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,440
Oh, OK.
Funny guy.

810
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,000
Funny guy.
But he's a young Arthur.

811
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:11,320
OK, OK.
But he argues against how Ken

812
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,760
Ham and Hovind and some other
people argue.

813
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,400
He's like, you're not making
good arguments here, you know,

814
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,640
So 'cause Ken Ham would say, if
basically I don't accept the

815
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,960
authority of the Bible, I'm
like, I definitely accept the

816
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,480
authority of the Bible.
We just disagree on what the

817
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,440
Bible is saying, you know, and
that's a hermeneutical question.

818
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,640
It's not a, you know, am I going
to subject myself to the Bible

819
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,440
question.
Have you have you been to the

820
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,280
Ark Encounter?
Are you scared?

821
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,080
Are you scared?
Are you scared to go?

822
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,440
I've not been to the Ark
Encounter, but Jessica Petters

823
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,560
is like, hey, I would like for
you to go to the Ark Encounter

824
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,800
with me sometime because like
I'd like to hear, you know,

825
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,400
you're, you know, they say this.
How would an old author respond?

826
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,080
They say this.
How do others respond?

827
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,320
But yeah, yeah.
So, yeah.

828
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,680
So I think it's a like it, like
you said, an intramural

829
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,840
discussion.
It's a good discussion.

830
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,160
I don't think that there has to
be vitriol with it.

831
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,920
And at the end of the day, I
don't think a lot theologically

832
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:16,720
rides on it.
Now, I know someone else might

833
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:21,480
say, oh, everything rides on it,
but I don't think you know the

834
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,520
age.
And I think like I've talked to

835
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:29,000
people that'll say, well, I
can't be a Christian because the

836
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,640
Bible says the earth is 7006
thousand years old.

837
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,840
I'm like, the Bible does not say
that.

838
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,760
Yeah, some people interpret the
Bible to say that, but there's

839
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:40,320
you're not going to find that in
there.

840
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:41,360
So.
Yeah, but if you count the

841
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,480
genealogies it.
Adds up, yeah, yeah, so.

842
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,080
I don't know.
Yeah, I will say I said this

843
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,720
last time that, you know, people
will say, you know what, you

844
00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:56,920
know, they'll, you know, Romans
5 or whatever, they'll say this

845
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,880
is Exodus.
I'll say I think the verse that

846
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,160
most in vase, I guess my view,
you know, I'll say the weakest

847
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,680
thing I think is the verses that
surround eating patterns in the

848
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,320
garden.
And so I'm like, is that just

849
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,640
what they ate in the garden?
You know, 'cause God will say

850
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:20,080
I've given you every green leaf
to eat and it almost sounds like

851
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:25,320
inside the garden there were no
carnivores or or omnivores kind

852
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:26,120
of sounds like.
That, yeah.

853
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,080
And then you don't really eat a
lot of meats right until later

854
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:30,840
on anyway.
Yeah, it's after the flood.

855
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,040
Where?
You know, yeah.

856
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,440
Humans are told specifically
they can eat meat.

857
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,800
So like those verses on like
there's, you know, there's ways

858
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,800
of not breaking those verses,
but bending, you know, I

859
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,640
understand this verse this way,
but I would say that's the

860
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,720
strongest verse that I know of
that I'm like, yeah, that

861
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:53,040
doesn't sit well with me.
I've got to understand it this

862
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,080
way.
I've kind of got to force it

863
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,240
into my paradigm.
That's strong.

864
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,880
But I think all the other verses
are more in my favor.

865
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,160
Like I'd rather take that one
that I don't necessarily

866
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,600
understand than than the other
ones.

867
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,320
So but.
I think that's good kind of

868
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:15,040
balancing said it a lot, the
science with scripture, not

869
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:16,880
letting science override
scripture.

870
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,720
But you know, if if it can fit,
if it's like permissible, it

871
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:23,400
doesn't, you know, it's a it's a
loud.

872
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,600
You don't have to like just
reject science because it's

873
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,400
science, right.
Yeah.

874
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,120
I mean, people do you know what
I mean?

875
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:31,520
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I don't want science.

876
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:32,120
Yeah, Yeah.
So.

877
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:33,400
Yeah.
No, that's good.

878
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,840
Any final word for wrap up yon
Part 2?

879
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:39,640
Yeah.
Any questions you have, Zach,

880
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,800
any any did?
Were you convinced?

881
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,960
I think some good arguments I
should I should look at it a

882
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,520
little bit closer.
I just I'm always like, man, I,

883
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,520
I, I lean, I lean probably new
Earth.

884
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:59,360
It's just based on reading, but
I, I see good, good things on

885
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,840
older side.
So I don't know.

886
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:03,080
It's just one.
It's one of those things like,

887
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:04,800
yeah, I wish we did have more
and more info.

888
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,000
And I wish, I wish John Piper
wrote a book on it, man.

889
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,880
I should, I should pick up if
John Piper would write a book on

890
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:10,320
it.
You'd be.

891
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:10,880
You'd be.
I would.

892
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:11,640
I would read it.
I would.

893
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:13,080
Understand, I would understand
it better.

894
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,040
I would be more more apt to read
it.

895
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:20,400
We just need a, you know, some
of these it's like we just need

896
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,320
a heavy, a heavy hitter.
I feel like people just don't.

897
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:26,400
A heavy theological.
Hitter, that's what I mean.

898
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,240
Most people, it's like in the
science realm or something.

899
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:31,920
It's not, it's not like like.
Steven Meyer is a scientist, and

900
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,360
he's writing on this, but he's
not like a theologian.

901
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,920
Yeah, it'd be interesting to get
like someone in pop culture

902
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,160
who's like a big name that would
write it.

903
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,640
And, you know, I think that's
probably hard to wishful wishful

904
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,360
thinking, you know.
So I'm I'm trying to think who

905
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,800
would be that?
William Lane Craig has written a

906
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:56,240
book on Adam and Eve.
Now he's going to take the 1st

907
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,840
10 verse 10 chapters, 9 chapters
of Genesis, say they're mytho

908
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,040
history.
And he's like, that doesn't mean

909
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:05,800
myth like you think it means
myth.

910
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:10,120
It just means that it is telling
a history in a narrative style

911
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,840
where not everything is expected
to be.

912
00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:14,560
But it's they're not lying
either.

913
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,440
It's not like, so he's gotten
some pushback on that.

914
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,520
And I think his timeline is
wrong because he'll put, he puts

915
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,520
Adam and Eve like a million
years ago.

916
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,440
And I'm like, I don't think
that's right.

917
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,160
I would, yeah.
I I'd actually be come from

918
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,720
putting Adam and Eve very
recently.

919
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,400
Oh yeah, with everything else
taking a long time to develop.

920
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:35,280
Right.
Yeah, yeah.

921
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,280
So like I would probably put
Adam and Eve where you put the

922
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,720
Adam and Eve 10,000.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 20,000

923
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:42,840
years ago, yeah.
Yeah, because that's funny too.

924
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:47,720
It's kind of like different like
John Piper arriving at like, you

925
00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:51,560
know, created some things, took
a big break or I don't remember

926
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:53,440
how his is.
Or some people are like, well,

927
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,680
Eden is something special or,
you know, like everything else

928
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:57,000
created.
And then maybe like, I don't

929
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,800
know.
But so all these genealogies not

930
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,000
literal or I mean, there's gaps
just like in every genealogy in

931
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:05,480
Scripture, like we read in
Matthew.

932
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,400
It's not like we're nailing down
everyone.

933
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,680
I've looked closely at the
genealogies and I'll say that

934
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:16,240
our view of genealogies and how
they're supposed to be, you

935
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:21,520
know, so you could say
grandfather begat grandson

936
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,880
skipped the father skipped that,
and that was fine in a Jewish.

937
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:31,480
The problem with that is the
Genesis genealogies are pretty

938
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:36,400
exacting 'cause they say Adam
lived this long and then he

939
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,920
begat this person.
So I, I, I literally, I'll just

940
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,320
be transparent.
I have some cognitive dissonance

941
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:48,840
there because it by the
genealogies, Adam is 7000 years

942
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,720
ago, but I think that the like
there's overwhelming evidence

943
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:54,280
that civilizations have been
here longer than that.

944
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:59,520
So I'm like, I think like I'm
like, I must be not

945
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,720
understanding Genesis right.
You know, there must be

946
00:50:03,720 --> 00:50:07,920
something that we're, you know,
I, I don't know what the answer

947
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,880
to that is, 'cause I like how do
these two fit together?

948
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,680
Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
Like you read those genealogies

949
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,720
and you're like when you're
doing the math, you're like, oh,

950
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:21,640
like Shim might have been alive
when Adam was at the end of his

951
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,280
or it's like these people how
they line up.

952
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,440
Maybe not Shim, but it's like,
no, it's like these the.

953
00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:27,040
I think.
Shim so long.

954
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,640
Sham was supposed to be would
have been live potentially when

955
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,920
Abraham was on the scene.
Oh yeah, And then if you go the

956
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:34,920
other way, it's like, it's like
everyone knows each.

957
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,360
Other some people thought Sham
was Melchizedek.

958
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:38,960
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.

959
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,160
Yeah.
So I mean, it's like, you know,

960
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,720
all these people, you know, not
that far, far removed.

961
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:49,080
Yeah, yeah.
So that's that is where I I

962
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,720
struggle the most is how far
back Adam and Eve cause the the

963
00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:54,720
physical and the and the
animals.

964
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,040
Like.
That can be pretty far.

965
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,480
It's like, but when did when,
how far back did human

966
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,920
civilization?
And I could probably be

967
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:09,360
convinced that our understanding
of civilization timeline line is

968
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,040
wrong.
And AB and Eve were really 7000

969
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,480
years ago.
I'm probably more like because I

970
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,680
feel the weight of yeah, yeah,
that's those Genesis texts,

971
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:19,880
Liam, like, OK, yeah, yeah,
yeah.

972
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,680
So like you have some people
will like look at me and be

973
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:27,800
like, you're a compromiser
because you think the age that

974
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:29,840
the universe is 13.8 billion
years ago.

975
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,960
And then that same person will
say I believe Adam was 20 or

976
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,520
40,000 years ago and I'm like
whoa.

977
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:37,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right.

978
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,440
You know, I, I'm not as
comfortable being dogmatic when

979
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,200
when they were, you know, I
don't know so.

980
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,640
Well, there you go.
Should we expect to yawn?

981
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:49,080
Part 3 We wrapped up pretty
good.

982
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:53,760
I think we should have six of
these in a row and then take a

983
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:54,840
break.
You know what I'm saying?

984
00:51:56,720 --> 00:52:01,040
I will say add your questions.
I can see questions from both

985
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,720
sides, maybe some atheists
coming in or maybe some theistic

986
00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:07,360
evolutionists coming in and
saying here's something you

987
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,520
missed.
Or if you got questions, if you

988
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:14,000
think we didn't address
something enough, I think

989
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,600
you're, we're open.
I'm open minded.

990
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,280
You know, if there's something I
haven't considered, I'm, I'm

991
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:20,680
happy to, to look at it.
So.

992
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,880
I love it.
Well, thanks for hanging in

993
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,080
there with us.
That's our take.

994
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,840
Thanks for listening to Take 2.
Find us wherever you find

995
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,360
podcasts and on YouTube for
those who want to watch our

996
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:33,000
video cast.