End Times 101: Amillennialism

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Mill.
It's just like the like a place

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you grind up grains.
Yeah, if you're not.

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Taking into flour, you might.
Be like what are you talking

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about, a mill?
For Yeah, well, you're wearing a

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black shirt.
I didn't.

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I just.
Well, you're wearing a black

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shirt.
Yeah, this is the new uniform.

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I do have we'll we'll mention
shirts in our final take.

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Oh, I'm.
I'm excited.

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A little little teaser here.
Well, all that talk to, say, all

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millennialism.
A millennialism.

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Big word, we're talking end
times.

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This is episode. 2 dose.
Dose we're just getting started.

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First episode we kind of gave
the overarching lay of the land.

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What are some non negotiables?
We're do good Christians and we

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identified some good Christians
who kind of take different

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sides.
And then the next few episodes

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we're gonna kind of hone in more
specifically on these systems,

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trying to keep it simple, but
layout some specifics.

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So you walk away.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
So you you can tell where

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Michael stands.
Not on the AW Mill side here.

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And one of the distinctions we
made was that a lot of these in

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time systems are really trying
to decipher the already and not

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yet.
How much is already and how much

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is the not yet.
And I like that way to think

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about it.
And AW Mill is the Kingdom that

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is already here, you know, for
for watch parts.

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So with that in mind, let's go
ahead.

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Yeah, let's do it and take it to
the next level.

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Let's fire up that twangy music.
From the hearts of the Low

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Country in South Carolina.
It's the Take Two podcast where

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we take theology to the next
level.

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All right, we're talking all
millennialism and, and this

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system understands the
Millennium.

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Doesn't even happen.
Yeah, if you're looking at the

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etymology, no, Millennium, they
would push back a little bit.

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They would say it's presence,
not not future, only that it's

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happening.
Christ is reigning right now in

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heaven.
So we're gonna talk about where

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they look at in Scripture to get
this viewpoint and why, why

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Christians have gravitated
toward this.

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And some really, you know, would
put this forward as the best way

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to understand the end time.
So as we're getting into this,

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when, when you think about the
reign of Jesus, the Kingdom of

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God, all these things, do you
think that we, we tease this

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out?
Do you think that's something

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that's coming or something
that's already happening?

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And, and if you think about this
in terms of the Millennium, what

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if it's not something that we're
waiting for, but something we're

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living in that might be a
paradigm shift for some people?

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I guess a question you might ask
the model prayer is that given

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only for that short time between
when he gave it and when he was

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crucified?
Be very short.

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Yeah, that's right, for even
now, 'cause in there it says

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your Kingdom come, your will be
done on earth as it is in

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heaven.
And it's he's really thinking

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immediacy.
If you're if you're embracing

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that, that that's good 'cause
that is the thought process of

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someone who holds this all mill
view and big picture.

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Amil teaches that the 1000
years, this, you know, very

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pivotal thing we've got to
define in Revelation 20 that

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that it's really purely symbolic
that Christ is reigning right

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now from heaven through his
church.

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So again, doesn't mean no
Millennium.

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It means not a literal future
1000 year earthly Kingdom.

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So let's go back.
Do you want to read the key the

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the key text in question?
We'll look at Revelation 20.

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And Michael, I think you read
this last time.

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We'll read it again 'cause it's
good.

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Just this is like really where a
lot of the battleground is

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fought and it's verses one
through 6.

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It says, Then I saw an Angel
coming down from the heaven,

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from heaven, holding the key of
the abyss, and a great chain in

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his hand, and he laid hold of
the dragon, the serpent of old,

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who is the devil and Satan, and
bound him for 1000 years.

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And he threw him into the abyss,
and shut it, and sealed it over

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him, so that he would not
deceive the nation's any longer

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until the thousand years were
completed.

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After these things he must be
released for a short time.

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Then I saw Thrones, and they sat
on them, and judgement was given

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to them.
And I saw the souls of those who

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had been beheaded because of
their testimony of Jesus and

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because of the word of God, and
those who had not worshipped the

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beast or his image, and had not
received the mark on their

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forehead and on their hand.
And they came to life and

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reigned with Christ for 1000
years.

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The rest of the dead did not
come to life until the thousand

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years were completed.
This is the first resurrection.

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Blessed and holy is the one who
has a part in the first

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resurrection.
Over these.

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The second death has no power,
but they will be priests of God

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and of Christ, and will reign
with Him for 1000 years.

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Great only place in Scripture we
read about this 1000 years and

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in some systems that 1000 years
is a literal 1000 years and amil

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not literal because we're doing
the math, you know, we're we're

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we're passing that it it's
really symbolic meaning

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completeness, fullness, you
know, a certain length of time.

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So it's really important to kind
of get your bearings there.

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Then the other one I think is
good.

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Maybe we can talk about a little
bit.

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Is this binding of Satan?
Satan is bound.

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What's that mean?
Is that something if it is

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happening right now, what's that
mean versus other systems that

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would put that in the future?
So there's kind of some

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different pros and cons ways to
think about it.

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So I don't know what your
thoughts are off the cuff with

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with some of that because I
think you know.

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I think there have been maybe
time since Jesus came where you

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would look at the worldwide
state of things.

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You need to go Wow.
I mean, we are really better

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than what it was before Christ
came.

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And as you know, we've done this
series on the Colts.

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That's right.
And we kind of beat up the

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Catholics a little bit for some
things that we didn't like.

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But as, you know, as bad as we
may, you know, not like the

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Catholics, you know, I use that
term loosely.

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You know, the Catholic Church
did hold sway over much of

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Europe.
That's right.

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That's a good point and.
And and even though they

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probably, you know, you would
have not everyone has saved

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under that system because it was
a lot of works based.

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So I'm saying during during that
time, I think, well, maybe

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things are probably better.
But I look at today and I think

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all the same sins that were
happening with the Jebusites and

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the Hebusites and the.
Nothing new under the sun.

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There's nothing new under the
sun, and it's still going.

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So like, how has Satan been
bound I.

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I don't know.
Yeah, that that's a good point.

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And you know, I think Amil would
argue that, you know, not even

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thinking about Catholic Church,
but go all the way.

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I mean go all the way back to,
you know, before Christ was on

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the scene.
It was like Israel has the

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light, everything else is
darkness.

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And so there is a different way.
But then at the same time, like

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a pre mill would look at the
world and be like, man, things

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aren't, you know, all all rosy.
You know there's some problems

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here You.
Saw something like 500,000

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Christians martyred in Somalia
over the past year and a half,

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two years or something like.
That it's crazy.

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You'll get the stats and it's
like the persecuted church is

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growing at record numbers, but
in both way like like the church

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is growing, but the persecution
in the persecution church is at

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an insane.
Like.

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In the last 100 years and it's
so it's hard to look at these

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stats and and a big critique of
all of these in time systems.

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If you don't like a system,
you'd just be like they're,

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they're just using the newspaper
to, you know, interpret the end

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times.
And I was thinking about this as

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we read through it because, you
know, there are certain things

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that flag like, oh, oh, but I
would say in any of the views,

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even the one I called, there are
some loose ends.

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That's right.
There, that's right, that's.

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Right, 'cause if there was one,
right, if there was one that had

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no loose ends, I think it would
be, everyone would just

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gravitate to it.
So I can look at mine and go,

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there's a slight mismatch in
what I believe and someone could

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press some of these verses to
say what you believe.

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There's a loose end here.
So, so you really have to go

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like, like what you said, you
know, how, how do I, you know,

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interpret this?
What verses do I use to

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interpret other verses?
Because it's not tidy.

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And I've I've heard a lot of
discussion on this Satan being

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bound where, you know, one on
mill.

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I was listening to that.
I really respect.

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I'd appreciate what he has to
say is saying, you know, when

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he's when it says bound, it's
almost like a dog on a leash.

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There is some wish he is bound,
but it's not that he can do

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nothing, you know, So it's like,
how do you interpret some of

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these words?
Does it mean like, you know,

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head and arms and socks and you
can't do any, you know what I

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mean?
Like so you play with some of

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these words a little.
Bit I know, it just seems it's.

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Like he doesn't have as much
rain.

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Disservations who are deceived
right now so seems counter.

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Other things I don't think I
have this in my notes, but a

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passage that those I think would
point to would be Jesus talking

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about, you know, I saw Satan
fall from heaven and you can't

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or bind you bind a strong man.
He doesn't say Satan there, but

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they'll make that connection
that that's what Jesus is

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talking about is going to happen
very, very soon that you know

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you that that kind of stuff.
So they make those connections.

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I think there's something there,
but it's not explicit tying it

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to this.
So anyway, it's again, it's not

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denying or I the the Kingdom,
but it's saying it's already

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underway and also an Awmil's
defense.

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The the ones I've looked at
would say Revelation 20 is

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great, but we're not going to
start at Revelation 20.

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That's kind of like one of the
tertiary texts we look at at the

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end because we don't know what
to do with that.

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We want to the Awmil's that I
find somewhat convincing.

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Really look at the Kingdom of
God text already not yet.

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And they try to make sense of
even something.

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We'll talk about First
Corinthians 15 big text, like

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they try to start there and move
there because they they don't

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know and maybe they handle that
text more poorly.

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There's more loose ends there.
They're not really doing justice

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to us where a a pre mill might
start with that texts because it

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does.
It does say something.

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It's got to mean something, you
know.

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So, you know, you've got to,
you've got to work with these

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texts in some fashion, and
that's part of the part of the

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challenge.
It's like which?

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How much damage do I have to do
to the verses to bend them to my

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understanding?
And you know, I I'd be curious

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to know what they would think,
you know, a historic this be or

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a progressive this be is bending
because I know like, like it's

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it's a very similar conversation
with old Earth's young earth.

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Like to me, I know the verses
that I'm like.

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That is my weakest point there
as an old earth creationist day

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ager.
But and but typically the young

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earthers don't even pick on
those things.

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They they pick on stuff on my
the thing you're picking on is

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is easily solvable is like not
an issue at all.

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So I wonder, I wonder, you know,
if we had someone, what they

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would say.
Yeah, that that would be good to

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hear from people that held, held
these positions strongly.

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Another verse, John 524.
I've got this one pulled up,

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John.
Right?

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Truly, truly, I say to you,
whoever hears my word and

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believes him who sent me has
eternal life.

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He does not come into judgement,
but has passed from death to

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life.
They'll they'll emphasize things

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like this.
Eternal life is a present

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reality, not just the future.
It says he has passed, not that

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he will pass.
And and so you know, many texts

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that are similar to this, they
will focus on those tenses

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saying this is a present
reality.

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A passage like Ephesians 26
talks about us being seated with

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Christ in the heavenly places.
Again, same kind of argument,

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00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,480
the tenses.
It's not saying we will be

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raised up.
It's like we are seated right

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now.
Not this past tense, but this

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current thing that will seat you
someday.

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But it's really that we're in
that.

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So again, it's like dealing with
this tension.

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What do you want to say about
this?

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Doesn't mean we're physically in
heaven right now, but it means

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our spiritual position and
identity are already tied to

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Christ's rule.
One thing I skipped backing up

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to Revelation 20 that I will say
that that I read it mentions

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specifically, you know, the the
Saints and the souls are

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reigning with Christ.
So they'll latch on on that too,

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saying, oh, that's a heavenly
reality.

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It says some of the people who
have been martyred, it's not

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talking about physical bodies on
the earth.

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And so they'll kind of maybe
pick up on something like that.

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Let me know if you see something
different that would fill us in

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as you're looking at that.
But I've seen that argument too,

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as I was putting some of these
notes together where they're

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gonna lean, lean into that side
of things a little bit from

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Revelation 20.
So let's talk.

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00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:48,280
Sorry.
Yeah, I'm reading.

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I don't see the Saints and souls
thing.

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00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:51,760
Let's see.
I'm just reading it.

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00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,520
But maybe I, but maybe I, you
know.

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Yeah, and, and it actually might
be.

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I saw the souls of those who had
been beheaded because of their

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testimony and because of the
Word of God, and those who had

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00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,320
not worshiped the beast or his
image and had not received the

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00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,320
mark on their forehead, and they
came to life.

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That sounds physical to me.
And reigned with Christ for 1000

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years.
Gotcha.

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And so so.
I think.

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That's a good example coming to
life versus.

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So anyway, this is this is these
are things, decisions, choices

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people have to make.
But there are good arguments on

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00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,400
both side, both sides.
Colossians 113.

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00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,720
He has delivered.
He has delivered us from the

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00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,920
domain of darkness and
transferred us to the Kingdom of

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his beloved Son in whom we have
redemption, the forgiveness of

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sins.
If you're in Christ, you're not

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waiting to enter the Kingdom,
you're already in it.

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This is really foundational at
its core to all mill framework.

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The Kingdom is a present
spiritual reality, not just this

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future political. 11 more verse
we can pause if we need to. 1st

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00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:00,600
Corinthians 1525 says he must
reign until he has put all

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00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,560
enemies under his feet, and they
would argue he is reigning now,

279
00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:08,520
but his reign is not yet fully
visible.

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00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,960
It doesn't say Paul will begin
to reign.

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00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,520
It says he must reign until
something is completed, that the

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00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,200
rain's already started and it
continues through a process and

283
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,240
it will end when all enemies are
defeated.

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00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,880
So they would say that's like
this millennial lane reign.

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00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,120
I know as a historic pre mill
advocate myself, I would look at

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00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,360
the same verse and just say it's
outlining an order of events.

287
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,760
That's a that's that's future,
just saying an order.

288
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,000
So, so you know, you look at
these verses, where do you give

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00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:36,080
weight to things?
Yeah.

290
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,640
I was thinking, I, I think I
could probably affirm almost

291
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,520
everything we've said here and
just go, Yeah.

292
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,440
And he is reigning spiritually
now.

293
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,840
And there is also going to be a
physical reign like we could.

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00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,960
You don't have to say.
Say, oh, I don't believe this

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00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,880
John 5 or Colossians one.
Yeah.

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00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that, that, that that's

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00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:01,120
really, that's really good.
So let's look at the timeline

298
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:06,120
and simplicity and, and really I
think the appeal of OMIL is it's

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00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,800
about as simple as you get.
If you look at the charts and

300
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,800
have like a visceral reaction
against it, you might find

301
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,280
yourself welcoming.
Like just something simple, you

302
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,800
know what I mean?
It does simplify.

303
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:23,280
I'll say this Amil simplifies
the resurrections because on a

304
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:28,680
pre mill view, yeah, I I think
when Christ returns.

305
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,960
Oh, sorry about that.
I don't know why that went off

306
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,240
as.
That's great.

307
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:35,920
Hey, this is, this is we're,
we're real.

308
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,360
We're doing it real time on a
pre meal view.

309
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,280
You know you have the
resurrection of the living.

310
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:44,960
I think to start off the
millennial range.

311
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,440
Right, it is.
They're separated.

312
00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,160
And then what?
Well, well, we know the

313
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,160
resurrection, living and the
dead are separated.

314
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,760
That's fine.
Because of the, you know, it's

315
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:55,440
it.
That's that's scripture.

316
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,600
But what happens to the people
who are potentially born in the

317
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:01,520
millennial reign?
That's a weird, that's a weird

318
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,600
one that that's that's really
the drawback of.

319
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,240
I think it's the weakest, it's
the weakest thing.

320
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,320
Like when they get saved, do do
they immediately get, is it like

321
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,760
all these little mini
resurrections of the living?

322
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,360
So that's I think that's the
messiest thing.

323
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,320
So to your point, Almil does
make that cleaner.

324
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,400
When it talks about the Church
age, this age we're in right

325
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:23,360
now, that is the Millennium.
It began with Christ's first

326
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,520
coming and continues now in this
current time.

327
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,800
Christ is reigning currently
from heaven through his Word and

328
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,520
Spirit and through the Church.
When Christ returns, this is

329
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,800
important.
It's one decisive return.

330
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,440
It's not multiple stages.
There's no secret rapture.

331
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,160
There's not multiple
resurrections like you alluded

332
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,160
to a pre mill.
It's one and there's this final

333
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,720
judgement and new creation where
there's resurrection judgement,

334
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,560
eternal state.
All this happens at once.

335
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:54,480
There's no in between like you
might see in in pre mill.

336
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,480
So so in this view, we're not
waiting for the king of the

337
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,720
star.
We're waiting for it to be

338
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,120
really completed.
And so that that's the

339
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,359
simplicity that that's the big
things that are going on with

340
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,200
it.
Let's look at maybe some history

341
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,359
of all mill and I feel like
everyone if you can claim

342
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,720
Agustin every every doctrine is
saying the Catholics are like

343
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,040
we'll have a like everyone's
saying, and you're like you're.

344
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,640
Claiming Augustine.
Everyone, you're like, what's

345
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:26,040
what's going on?
And if you are a historic pre

346
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,240
meal person, you'll point to
Augustine as like, he'll be

347
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,200
like, man, there's so many
historic pre mills.

348
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:32,720
I mean, maybe not so many, but
you see it.

349
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,280
But then once Augustine shifts
away, you start seeing less and

350
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,760
less people embracing it
throughout church history.

351
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,480
And it's really the the dominant
viewpoint of, you know, the

352
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:46,400
Roman Catholic Church, you know,
the Reformed tradition at large

353
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,120
kind of coming out of the Roman
Catholic Church and people like

354
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:51,920
John Calvin, Martin Luther,
These are the kind of people

355
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,720
during that time period.
Mills like ruling the day,

356
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,400
modern voices.
I think of RC Sprole, even

357
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,080
though you read some stuff, it's
like, was he post mill?

358
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:03,600
Was he on mill?
He like went back and forth.

359
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,040
He was undecided, that kind of
thing.

360
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:11,080
But that's a little brief, You
know, history 101 on Mill.

361
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:13,960
So, you know, Michael, what,
what kind of things would you

362
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,360
think about?
Like why, why would people be

363
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:17,360
like, man, I like this view.
What?

364
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:19,000
What is compelling about this
view?

365
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:26,040
Well, I think if, well, I'll,
I'll say I think it's probably

366
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,880
pretty clear I'm a progressive
dyspie version of a pre meal.

367
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,240
So I, I would, if I had to put
my wagering odds, I would

368
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:40,320
probably put 97% confident that
pre meal is right.

369
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,920
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then maybe 2 1/2 percent

370
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,200
that Ahmil is right and then a
half a percent.

371
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,320
So I'll just say if, if, if
someone was like told me,

372
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,640
Michael, I can assure you that
pre mill is not right, I'll go.

373
00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:00,000
That's probably all then.
No, I, I, I think that's good.

374
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,640
It's simple.
It emphasizes Christ's reigning.

375
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,000
Now we can, like you said, like
those verses, like we're not,

376
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,920
we're not saying those verses
don't they're not accurate.

377
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,320
Like we're, we're, I think, you
know, when you look at pre mill,

378
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,480
I think historically you see
that run pretty strong in

379
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,320
Baptisty circles.
Amil runs more strong in like a

380
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,760
Presbyterian kind of framework,
Anglican, Catholic, these kind

381
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,320
of things.
I think it closely because of

382
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,360
that is connected to covenant
theology where you look at the

383
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:30,920
covenants a little bit
differently.

384
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,120
You probably have to all all of
those are kind of wrapped up in

385
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:34,960
there.
What it's weird to me that they

386
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,320
that they call themselves
covenant theology when dis bees

387
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,680
look at the covenants as closer
in my view, closer than what

388
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,000
they do.
Yeah, now that that that that

389
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:45,920
that's really funny like where
you see like these these

390
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:51,200
dividing lines and really what I
can get behind as a pre meal

391
00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:53,800
guy.
A all mill typically has a

392
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,600
strong theology of suffering
that the Kingdom grows amid some

393
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,800
suffering, but after it
disappears, they're all.

394
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,200
There is also people that like
lean post mill, but they're all

395
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:02,560
mill and they're an optimistic
all mill.

396
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,440
Things are getting better.
I don't think that's most

397
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,000
people.
I find that a huge.

398
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,560
You know, red flag of of post
mill.

399
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,240
I think some weaknesses, if I
had to put a weakness on it, I

400
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,120
think it does a good way to put
it is it feels less concrete.

401
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:18,760
It feels you're spiritualizing
everything.

402
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:21,560
And I think there is a spiritual
component, but it it doesn't

403
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,400
give you as much to like hold on
to.

404
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,280
It's like, are you just making
this text mean nothing?

405
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,840
Yeah.
And I would say even you could

406
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,000
say that about some of the New
Testament passages, but I'd also

407
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,760
say that about the Abrahamic
covenant, the Davidic covenant

408
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,160
promises, because I think
everyone at the time the Davidic

409
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,720
covenant is given, they're not
thinking a reign like Jesus is

410
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,960
enjoying now.
They're thinking of a literal

411
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:53,640
physical king of Israel reign.
And so I think they'd go, wait a

412
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,720
minute, I don't want to say
just, but he's just reigning

413
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,760
from heaven through the church.
He's not here as the actual

414
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:06,400
king.
And then you look at the kind of

415
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,440
the verses that Jesus kind of
talks about his Kingdom, even

416
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,120
when it has his ascension.
And they're like, hey, is the

417
00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:14,160
Kingdom coming now?
And they're like, it's not for

418
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,600
you to know the time.
He's not.

419
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,160
Like in about 30.
Minutes.

420
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,960
We are in the Kingdom right now
like.

421
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,600
The fire is about.
To descend in a couple days,

422
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,480
That is the Kingdom you know.
So that that that's the thing,

423
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,120
because a lot of me wants to a
lot of people I love are the

424
00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:31,640
AWMIL, like these old dead guys.
I like to read AWMIL.

425
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,800
And that's the thing I find that
we really flatten out Revel you,

426
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,200
you've really flattened all that
stuff and you ascribe it

427
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,760
meaning, but really kind of
whitewash it a little bit where

428
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,240
it doesn't mean as much in the
same way that sometimes, you

429
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,000
know, like a hardcore hyper
classical dispensationalist

430
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,920
might over grab onto this stuff.
You're saying there could be

431
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,200
extremes on both?
Ends.

432
00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:54,960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Exactly.

433
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:59,360
So I think, I think there are
are problems where everything is

434
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:02,840
just symbolic something.
If it seems straightforward, can

435
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,560
it be straightforward or does it
have to be symbolic?

436
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,280
You know what I mean?
Satan's binding, that's the

437
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,040
problem.
If Satan is bound, why does evil

438
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:10,920
seem so strong?
You know, the Amil's gonna say

439
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:12,880
well, well, bound in a specific
sense.

440
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,560
The nations aren't totally
deceived like they once were.

441
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,200
We see, you know, the gospel has
been going to these countries in

442
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:20,880
some capacity that that didn't
happen.

443
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,240
And missionary The missionary
movement centuries.

444
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:28,120
That Hindus have held full sway
in these nations.

445
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,480
You know, I was like.
Yeah.

446
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,320
It's hard for me to to get on
board with that.

447
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,480
So you know, and it it real, it
it depends on you know what

448
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,440
you're looking at, who you're
talking to, cause sometimes

449
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,240
seems very positive, sometimes
seems very negative.

450
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,480
And then the timeline, maybe you
want a little more detail and

451
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,920
it's like, well, you know,
honestly, I look at Revelation

452
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,440
and I kind of do see, you know,
it's maybe these five

453
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,600
recapitulated events over and
over.

454
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,800
And that kind of makes sense to
me, which just makes sense, you

455
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:56,800
know?
And so I can like.

456
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,680
I'm liking that more and more
even like I don't know if you

457
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,120
realized it, but like I
referenced a verse in Revelation

458
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:06,560
11.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

459
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,080
As the end like this is that
he's setting up his Kingdom and

460
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,600
that could only be true on the
recapitulation.

461
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,760
First you can see it says the
Kingdom of our Lord and Christ

462
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,320
has become the Kingdom of this
world or something like that.

463
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,920
Maybe I should look it up
because it's real close while

464
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,280
you're while you're talking
about the other things.

465
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,840
But on the recapitulation
version, then you have several

466
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,720
places where you've come to an
end, and then you look at it

467
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,480
again through a different lens.
No, that that that's great.

468
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,880
And I think on the, you know,
anyway, we'll, we'll kind of get

469
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,160
to these different views I think
while you're looking that up.

470
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:42,440
But I think this is an
encouragement.

471
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:47,600
You found it already. 11:15 The
7th Angel sounded and there was

472
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,960
a loud voice in heaven saying
the Kingdom of this world has

473
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,960
become the Kingdom of our Lord
and of his Christ and he will

474
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,680
reign forever and ever.
And the 24 elders who sit on

475
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,560
their Thrones before God fell on
their faces faces and worship

476
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,440
God.
So I mean that's.

477
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,360
Right, yeah, and I versus like
some at least classical

478
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:07,480
dispositions.
It's like an even you know, when

479
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,080
in the pre mil scheme, it's like
revelation is just like this

480
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,520
never ending chronological story
that ever it's just like crazy

481
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,800
gets crazier and you're like,
wow, not that it couldn't

482
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,240
happen, but you know, but let's
land with this with some

483
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:25,520
encouragement, not divisiveness.
This, this view, I think invites

484
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,280
us as we consider it, you know,
to see your life right now as

485
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:34,000
part of Christ's reign, that in
a very real way, God's Kingdom

486
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,840
exists.
We're part of God's Kingdom.

487
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,680
We're not waiting to enter.
We are in his Kingdom, our

488
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,960
faithfulness, it matters now.
The Kingdom is advancing, even

489
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,280
if it's quiet quietly, even if
it's not in exactly these overt

490
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,600
political ways.
And we have a certain hope what

491
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:55,800
is now unseen at one time is
going to be fully revealed.

492
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,680
So even if you don't land, which
we wouldn't on the Om mill side

493
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,400
of things, the question we
should, you know, if we take

494
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,960
something away from this, it's
not when will Jesus reign?

495
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,040
Although that's a good question.
It's don't you see that he

496
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:07,920
already is?
And I think you can, you can

497
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,480
miss that if you're so focused
on the pre mill.

498
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:11,960
It's like everything's so doom
and gloom.

499
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,320
It's good to be to have at least
that tug thing like, you know,

500
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,440
the King Kingdom in some
capacity is already here.

501
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,640
We can take confidence and hope
in that and be faithful.

502
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,880
Yeah, I think that's spot on,
because every view should have

503
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,360
the amillennial view of the
spiritual Kingdom as part of

504
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:30,840
their it's.
Something, yeah, maybe not as

505
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,280
full, but it's like you get, you
should have that in there.

506
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:34,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah that.
That's good.

507
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,960
So Amil doesn't mean there's no
Millennium.

508
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,400
There's no earthly political
Millennium.

509
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,240
It's happening.
Heaven right now.

510
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,800
Christ is reigning with the
Saints through his Church, and

511
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,800
when that Millennium ends, it's
when Christ returns and

512
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:54,200
everything happens at the end.
Very simple timeline, not all

513
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,320
these broken.
Everything happens, but it takes

514
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,320
1007 years for it to complete.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, right.

515
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:02,720
Right.
Great.

516
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,400
Hopefully that was simple
enough.

517
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,760
Clarified a few things.
Anything that you want to add or

518
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,080
you think we should mention
before we transition to the

519
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,240
final take?
No, I think I think it's good.

520
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,040
If you had questions, let us
know.

521
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,120
That's great.
If we misrepresented your view.

522
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,560
We always want to hear that
because we don't want to straw

523
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:19,600
man views.
I.

524
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:20,000
Love it.
Yeah.

525
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,600
If anything we said rubbed you
the wrong way, let us know.

526
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,400
But with that, let's let's
change to the final take and

527
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:26,800
hear about these.
Was it T-shirts?

528
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:27,640
Yeah.
I can't wait.

529
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,840
All right so we if you are a
follower of ours on YouTube,

530
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,720
you've seen we kind of upped our
short game we got we got a

531
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,880
program that's helping us to
extract some clips from our long

532
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,920
format videos.
Nice and kind of highlight some

533
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,920
things it does it makes it easy
on Zach and me makes it easy

534
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,680
yeah on Zach and me That's
correct Hey great objective case

535
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,400
nice work but one of the one of
the commenters said something

536
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,240
like I bet that guy in that
cheap T-shirt and.

537
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,600
Oh yes, I have.
That's I I love this.

538
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,440
And I was like, it's such a,
such a strange, I like it

539
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,240
attack.
Attack the clothing.

540
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,120
I wish he didn't attack your
like physical looks.

541
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:12,000
He just attacked your clothing.
Yeah, yeah, He said something

542
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,960
about my cheap shirt and I was
like, OK, so I I wore my cheap

543
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,920
black shirt today in honor of
that.

544
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,920
I commented something about the
clothing back.

545
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,040
I was like, it's not as cheap as
you think, but if you want the

546
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:22,880
link to our store, here it is.
I don't know.

547
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,840
I don't know what I said, but
don't think he don't think he

548
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:26,920
bought anything.
Yeah.

549
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:29,920
I haven't seen any new sales
yet.

550
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,400
I think we made maybe a total of
like 17.

551
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,360
That's why we got into.
It.

552
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:38,800
That's right.
For the money, no, that that's

553
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,800
good.
Speaking of, I don't know, did I

554
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,400
see this on the podcast that's I
talked about my Northwood swag I

555
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,600
got that's all the wrong sizes?
Yesterday.

556
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,520
It's a good I wore or the shorts
are overly big.

557
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:50,360
It's great.
It's good.

558
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:52,360
I'm I'm like I'm rocking both.
We had picture day.

559
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,440
I saw, I noticed that everyone.
So I was up in the booth and

560
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,720
yeah, and Coach McLeod and his
wife are up there 'cause he does

561
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,680
the announcing for the varsity
game.

562
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,200
And she was concerned when she
saw all of your of jersey and

563
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,120
your jersey, she's like, is
there a JV game before?

564
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:10,960
Like we're not going to get out
of here till really late.

565
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,440
And he's and he's like, no, he's
like, why are they in New

566
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:14,480
Jersey?
He's like, well, it's picture.

567
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:15,760
Day.
No, I I felt like that too.

568
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,040
Are these pictures ever going to
end?

569
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,800
Without a doubt.
I'm not blaming the picture

570
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,920
people at Northwood, it's just
this is pictures in general.

571
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,280
The way pictures work is they
never go on time.

572
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,560
They go way longer.
I don't know why we only budget.

573
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,560
I guess I feel like no matter
what time you budget, we're

574
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,720
always going over.
We were supposed to get our

575
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,920
pictures at 3:45, presumably
3:45 to 4:00.

576
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,080
We were like walking out there.
Yeah, which is for 20 kids.

577
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,640
That's less than a minute per
kid plus a group.

578
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:42,880
Picture and then you have to
switch.

579
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,240
It's crazy.
And it's like we didn't get out

580
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,200
of there till like 4:30.
It's like practice starts at

581
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:51,480
like 4.
It's just like we're we're just

582
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:52,920
like we're just going to get out
there and go.

583
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,840
So it just pictures like rolling
my eyes, like pacing the floors

584
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,400
or I, I shouldn't say that.
I won't say this on air.

585
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,280
I don't want, I don't want, I
don't want to incriminate any of

586
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,200
my, my kids when we were also,
you got to like keep kids like

587
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,200
in check, like 20 kids for like
40 minutes while they're like

588
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,480
roaming around.
It's like, Oh no, you know.

589
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,880
I think I, here's something that
I know that maybe we could get

590
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,760
Leanne or some of her, some of
her colleagues, but there is a

591
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:25,120
way that elementary teachers can
control kids that I just have

592
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,680
not mastered because I expect
you, because I guess when I was

593
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:33,560
at, I could control myself.
I could follow directions and,

594
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,240
and I looked at other people my
age and like, who didn't?

595
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,720
I'm like, what are you an idiot?
You know I.

596
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,600
Probably said that.
And so now I look at these kids

597
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,160
like in my chess club or you
probably for any, you know, like

598
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,320
you tell them something and they
just, they just don't.

599
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:48,920
And I'm like.
We don't pay attention and it's

600
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,600
like the same like 6 kids like
and like maybe it's everyone a

601
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,720
little bit but it's like I've
been telling you this.

602
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,920
It is blowing my mind and.
I don't want to like I don't

603
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:05,360
want to get mad and blow up, but
I was like, like one of the one,

604
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,840
one of my good chess guys.
Yeah, he could tell like, yeah,

605
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,160
yeah, yeah.
OK, guys, if we don't stop, this

606
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,400
is gonna, this is gonna not end,
end well.

607
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,880
So he started, he started like
he's like, do you want me to say

608
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,680
something to all of them?
I'm like, no, you don't have to.

609
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,600
Like I'm about to say.
Something you're you're gonna

610
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,400
Yeah, it's great.
Yeah.

611
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,920
We're, we've just, we've we're
trying to tighten up the ship a

612
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,400
little bit.
It's it's never any, but it's

613
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,080
fun.
It's good.

614
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,560
We've had a couple good
practices, but picture and

615
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:32,720
pictures are past us, which is
good.

616
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,080
I I never like never a fan of
picture day.

617
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,520
Not not my not my jam.
I could not be AI feel like also

618
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,600
being a photographer for a
school would be like he just

619
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,520
like hold the ball like you
know, most of it goes up great.

620
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,040
It's like.
You just assume, hey, I'm going

621
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,560
to be out for three hours.
I'm not in a hurry.

622
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,320
I'm about to make a whole bunch
of money.

623
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,520
That's right.
If it's, you know, horrendous

624
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,080
for you, OK.
Oh well, you know, I don't know.

625
00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,520
I love it.
Probably all the photographers

626
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,760
let us know, you know.
Yeah, let us know maybe next

627
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,680
year at Northwood, we'll sneak
in a podcast picture, be like,

628
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,360
you know, get a get a podcast
picture in there for the for the

629
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,080
YouTube.
But great.

630
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,320
Anything else you got?
I mean, I have more, but we

631
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:13,960
probably should save that for
another episode.

632
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,960
All right, I like it.
That's our take.

633
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:18,880
Thanks for listening to Take
Two.

634
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,520
Find us wherever you find
podcast and on YouTube for those

635
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:23,920
who want to watch our video
cast.