End Times 101: Postmillennialism

0:00 Post mill. Post Millennial. We we were just talking about Lucky Charms and if Michael didn't know any better, he almost looked into a post meal mindset that life couldn't get better. Chloe's birthday, eating Lucky Charms, living life good and I if you're thinking post meal to keep it simple, think hope, think positiveness, hope for gospel victory. Things are getting better and better, specifically through the church, Yes. Prior to the Christ return. We're essentially ushering in the golden age. With Israel. With so, so, so big picture central claim post millennialism, it teaches that the gospel will gradually transform the world before Christ returns. The Kingdom of God is growing.

0:49 We look at these parables, it's growing through the church, and history trends towards a golden age of righteousness, an age of peace, and the age of justice before the final return of Christ. And gates are defensive things. There, there, there you go. Right, and the gates of hell will not prevail, which assumes that the church is on the offense. Wow, we're already coming out swinging. We'll do this. Try to put away your preconceived motion like oh you're. That's all in favor. Well, imagine this. We'll close our eyes. Imagine a world where education, where the law, where society perfectly reflects God's justice, where corruption declines, poverty lessons, faithfulness to God is what shapes communities. Post Bill says this, this is this is not a fantasy, but this is where things are going.

1:36 It's the trajectory of God's Kingdom gradually unfolding before Christ comes. And on some level all of us would say that that's where it's going. They're just saying this is leading into God, Christ coming back. So a good question to ask is, you know, where do you see gospel influence in your city, in your school, in your workplace? When you think of this, you know, hope purpose, this trajectory. This is this is like prime primary to this view. This is what is going through every post Mills head. Has a name. Hey, I love that song all. Right, all right, so should we take it to the next level? Let's fire up that twanga music.

2:20 From the hearts of the Low Country in South Carolina. It's the Take Two podcast where we take theology to the next level. Post mail Let's look at some scriptures that post mail would think about South a classic Matthew 2818 through 20 what some what many would call the Great Commission. Jesus makes says some very, very famous words, gives the church her marching orders kind of shows us, you know what what we are to do. So when you get there, do would you like to? Read I have no idea where he is, but I was on the wrong tab. I was on the opening tab. I was like where is he at?

3:02 And I was like, this is lined up, yes. But yes, if I had been on the right tab, I would have been here sooner. And actually I have one of my things here because I read it. So 18 through 20. You got it. And Jesus came up and spoke to them saying all authority. It's like you'd want to break right into that Parks and Recreation thing. She was like, What you may have heard is some authority, but what I said is, all authority has been given to me in heaven and earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Wow.

3:48 So we're we're called to go and make disciples and postmills will say, well, they'll at least emphasize that the church is tasked with this and this transforms the world. Discipleship, Kingdom work. This is how the world changes. So you think every act that you teach, every act of mercy, every act of justice, this is what gets us to this golden age. They don't look at passages like Psalm 110, this messianic Psalm quoted extensively, you know, in the New Testaments, it's about Christ reigning, executing justice. And they'll say, you know, Christ's Kingdom is already being established spiritually, gradually. This is like where it's going. And then where are you turning to, Michael? I didn't know if did you want to read any of Psalm 10, Psalm 110, or do you just want?

4:33 To I I actually I actually do have it here. I didn't. Know if you had wanted to read any of. That this will sound familiar, the Lord says to my Lord, sit up my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool. The Lord sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter rule in the midst of your enemies. Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power and holy garments from the womb of the morning. The dew of your youth will be yours. The Lord has sworn and won't change his mind. You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. The Lord is at your right hand. He will shatter kings on the day of His wrath. He will execute judgment among the nations, filling them with corpses. He will shatter chiefs over the white earth. He will drink from the brook. By the way, therefore, he will lift up his head. Habakkuk, 214.

5:18 Yeah, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. And So what they're going to say, if the earth will be filled with that, there's a progression to that. God's Kingdom is going to be widespread. Eventually it's going to be everywhere because how much water covers the sea? A lot, right? The sea is water. So it's going to be everywhere. Christians are part of this Kingdom expansions. We won't talk, we'll talk about this in historic pre mill as well. But they'll look at, you know, Psalm 72 talks about righteousness, justice, peace under the King's reign. Isaiah 11, this peaceful coexistence of creatures. Romans 11 talks about this ultimate fulfillment of God's plan for all nations and they, they see this progression where like a historic pre mill when they look at Psalm 72, we'll look at this next time in Isaiah 11 and other passages in Isaiah, they might see this is a weird time where things are going really good.

6:18 I think Isaiah would say things like, you know, a young man will be 100 years old and no one will die as an infants and a historic pre mill might look at that and say, well, that doesn't sound like the eternal state where people are dying when they're 100. But it seems like an in between time. Or I mean, you know, it seems like maybe this millennial reign where you're like in this weird in between because are people still dying? You know, and Psalm 72 kind of says some of these same same things. So things to think about where different systems place emphases where they are saying, well, this is where things are going here and now. And so maybe we can look at a sequence, a timeline of events, try to get our bearings. So the church age.

7:03 Where does it start? Acts one through 28. The gospel is spreading from Jerusalem outward. You know your traditional Baptist would go. It starts when he calls the apostles. There you go. That's that's it. Yeah, that's that's a, that's a good point. These post bills would say that, you know, Christians are holding faithfully their discipling others. They're having this influence on culture and and through this, the Kingdom is growing not only spiritually but also socially and morally. And, and you're going to see this bleed into education while on government, culture, media, economics. It's not gonna be in some perfection, gradual. And and if you're looking back at America's history, you might be like this.

7:43 This was happening and that's why most people were post meals at that time. Yeah, and it's easy to sit here. You know, I was even thinking back to our previous episode on this top topic big, and I was saying, well, there's a lot of things going on. But you know, if you've looked at Jay Warner Wallace's person of interest, he goes through how crazy Christianity has transformed the world through education, hospitals, science, the arts, all the things that have been changed because of Christ, and you go, wow, this. That's good. Has had a huge impact for the good. Hospitals, orphanages, yeah, technology, all the things. I love the pushback.

8:24 When I like, see pushback, people are like, well, it's 'cause everyone was Christians or they're like, or, you know, have you seen this kind of thing? Like they're like, well, no one was not a Christian. There were places that everyone wasn't a Christian. And it wasn't so. Great. And they weren't doing those things, so there you go. So we'll probably talk about this, but you know, Puritans, Jonathan Edwards, you can imagine you're coming to, you know, you're in this new world and you're like, wow, we have like our, you know, our religion, like everything we're we're building everything up. This is kind of a golden age where you would start to see some of that a little bit. And really in their version of the golden age would be the virtually all nations experiencing significant gospel influence, this peace, this justice, godliness or flourishing. I'm deaf and sin or not absent, still presence, but restrained through Christ's reign.

9:12 And this really is prep, preparation for Christ, visible return. And then after this, we're getting into this golden age, Christ will return, visible, public, glorious believers resurrected, final judgement to follow. And we have this final judgement, this new heavens and new earth. And so we see it's hopeful, active engagements, not escapism. And you can kind of see the outworkings of it. I think it's easier in a pre meal context to be escapist. I'm going to withdraw from the world. I don't like the way schools are going. I'm going to homeschool all my kids. I don't think that's a bad thing. But it's like, you know, public schools are probably getting worse and worse the more Christians are like I'm gonna have I'm not gonna talk to school boards. I'm gonna like totally isolate versus like, hey, we're gonna if you go to a place like Moscow, ID Doug Wilson post millennial like that, that whole city is like taking on. We're gonna transform the city 'cause they are post minded and it's like everything just looks like different. Like they have like their own coffee shops and you know, it's like they're trying to really take over in that way. Also, Doug Wilson's big proponent of homeschool stuff. He's trying through like, you know, these classical conversations and homeschool things to really give a good product and, and change.

10:28 You can see the timeline. Not that much different from AMIL really. The emphasis is just on the trajectory is what ushers in Christ's returns getting positive. But there still is 1000 year reign of Christ physically bodily on earth for post meal, right? I I. Don't think so. I I don't think there's. You don't think so? I don't think. So. So it's still a spiritual reign right now. And then we, then Jesus, Boom. And then boom, when Christ returns, it is like believers are erected final judgment, new creation, new heavens and new earth. Where I think and I I might have put this, we'll we'll talk about the historical development, but I think I don't know when when this happened, but I don't I think at some point there was no such thing as post mill and AW mill. It was all it was everything was post mill. There was no AW mill and so it was hard to like tease out a few things.

11:21 So while you're. Yeah, I just want to check. Looking up some stuff that's good, I'll go through some historical development. Really at its high point in the Puritan era, we mentioned Jonathan Edwards believed that widespread spiritual revival would perceive Christ's return. And so the Puritans, they often envision things like a society that would be in a lockstep with God's law, moral reform across the nation's, the culture would really be in line with these Kingdom principles. And so you'll look at 18th century New England, the literacy, the missions, the law reform seen as a partial Kingdom advance. We mentioned modern Doug Wilson. He's like the big guy there, Kenneth Gentry. And most see, you know, media education, society. We're we're transforming all these things. So what?

12:11 What'd we find? Let's get some good. Yeah, I hate this name. Yeah, yeah. Why would? You call yourself POST. It's very similar. If you don't believe in an actual millennial reign, y'all gotta fix that name. It's really I'm like, I have a visceral reaction to this. So it's like Christ comes after the Millennium, which is really the golden age, which again, it's spiritualized because it can't be 1000 years 'cause we're already 2 in year 2000 and, you know, 26. So you think about that and it really does change the way. On their view, the mill is right. It's the same as. I'm kind of Yeah, it's kind of the same. It's just going very positive. We're ushering in a golden age, so we're in it now. Or maybe we're gonna come into it. It might be a little more hazy when we when we hit that. So very similar.

12:57 And that's why we were doing these two first, because it's more the more simple ones. It kinda breaks it down like this. I also, I don't know if we're gonna get to it, but they would look at a lot of the parables in Matthew, these Kingdom parables, the mustard seed that grows, starts small but becomes the largest. You know, you look at all these parables and there's this like trajectory and they would say, well, that's gotta that, that that's what's happened. The gospel does have effects, so it's very hopeful, very positive. If you take away anything, you think about how God's Kingdom reshapes society before Christ returns, kind of leading up preparing the way for Christ. And if you look, we won't go through this a lot, but omil verse post meal often they were lumped together for centuries. If you're looking at the medieval period, there's not like a ton of different readings. So Omil and post meal like claim the same people a lot of times because of that.

13:54 Not really. It wasn't until this Puritan era where we talked about more of this gradual improvement where it was really post meal became like its separate thing from from Awmil. So anyway, something to consider if you're looking back, like why wasn't the early church? There's like no such thing. It was like all kind of lumps together. One thing we won't get into, but if you've heard of theonomy, God's law, a lot of times that's going to be with post meal because you're reinstating this justice system of God's law. Not all post Millers are theonymous, but if you're a theonymous, you're almost definitely a post Miller, if that makes sense. So anyway, that those are some big picture ideas of post meal.

14:39 I think if you understand all mill, you kind of get post meal. You just kind of get the bent of it is positive and you can step back from the world and you can see man, the gospel has brought a lot of good things. You can see well, it seems like maybe in America, maybe in Europe, it's on the decline, but you look at Africa and South America and China and it's like man, Gospel seems like things are going really well. It's I mean spreading in a good way. You look at the numbers, you're like, holy cow, you know, now the Bible's in all these different languages. You may have the Internet and like you can have access like man, this is so you, you can, you can get behind that. Like you can see that the flip side is you're like, man, not everything's not all roses and sunshine at the same time.

15:24 Yeah, there's a there's debauchery. Running, yeah, it really bets up. And you, you don't have to look very far. Look at our home country and you're like, what's going on? All these things, You're like what what's what's happening? It can be, it can be tough. So I guess from a positive standpoint, it's optimistic. Who doesn't like a good story? You know, I guess all of the stories are good if you look the horizon's long enough. Right. It's more and and you know, optimistic, I think you know, any of these any of these systems, you can have certain disposition doesn't change how you act, but this one lends itself to engaging the world a little more because you're like, man, this gospel is going to transform, not just spiritually, but convinced on a societal level emphasizes me.

16:10 We need to be discipling people. The Great Commission. Let's engage with the culture weaknesses is it can feel unrealistic and suffering context it's hard to you know tell that person suffering for years and years and years you're. Ushering in the golden age right now in Somalia. Yeah, that. And India? You look at wars, pandemics, persecution. You see injustice everywhere. You might say maybe I'm not so optimistic. You look at some of these texts that talk about, you know, God's glory going everywhere doesn't doesn't necessarily mean like success monetarily or society or morally right here and now. Maybe it's looking a little bit future kind of into where you want to put things. And you know, history doesn't always trend upward. It's like up and down, up and down, you know, Europe, America on a high point now, not anymore. Things kind of, you know, shift and go. So anyway, I've got a little bit on here in theonomy, but that's like a whole that's just.

17:14 Like I saw that section I was scrolling through. It's just a whole I, I don't have a good feeling because or a good handle on it, because I feel like everyone interprets theonomy differently. Like if you just mean God's law, that's very vague. But some people are like, man, let's get Leviticus out. We're we're doing this, you know what I mean? Even if I was a theonomist, I wouldn't turn to Leviticus. I mean that was. Yeah, and I, I might be misspeaking for them where they would, you know, I don't know. It's. But I have a rail around your roof. Yeah, all all the things you're supposed to do and how much is like, you know, well, that's that outworking of that silver wall different in our context, but there are the outworkings that and now that I don't there's all this disagreement on it that I kind of get get lost and how to how to understand it totally, But it's a good, you know, exercise in, you know, the Christians. How much do you get involved in politics and these kind of things.

18:09 And it I'm always fascinated with this conversation of engaging culture slash withdraw, slash withdrawing from culture because I see good arguments on both sides. And I do think man, public school as a general rule, not everywhere, but it's like, man, not a good obviously not a good decision for my family. On the flip side, it would be cool if I don't know how many Christians are in America that are strong Christians. If it's like, man, we inject X amount of $1,000,000 a million people into a public school system. Can you change that? Can you not? Or it's like, man, the government is too powerful where you just should give up and run away or that kind of thing, you know? And so I think those are good. I don't think you should sacrifice your children. I wouldn't.

18:50 I wouldn't phrase it like you said. No, but I think that's. How it's still like a different way. I'm fine, battle smart because I don't think children were ever meant to be the front runner, front runners of the missions, right? No, I, I agree and maybe I'm getting more at, I think the likelihood of you being on a school board in the public school probably goes down 'cause you're probably investing in the private schools, but not a not a bad thing. Private schools do good. But you can see probably you get less involvement in government kind of things by Christians by virtue of that, I think as a general rule, probably because maybe energies are focused in other places, which I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It's like you got God's school and Satan's school. I'm going to invest in God's school. Right.

19:32 And it's like Satan's school, do what you want. We'll kind of stand by the side and maybe we'll put a a post up or something. But we're not actively like going to the school board meetings and those kind of things, which is let them let them do their thing. You kind of we'll kind of step back into like our circle and you. You. I don't I don't I I disagree. Pulling my kids out of public school has nothing to do with how I interact with other adults and and extending the circle of Christianity. So there there's lots of other realms other than education. And that is true. There there are, you know so. And I'm, I'm playing devil's advocate because part of it is Christian schools were essentially, at least in, in America, a lot of them are in 60s, seventies, 80s to say, Hey, I don't want my kid to go to school with black people.

20:18 So we're going to start a Christian School because we think, and so you get into these things, you're like, man, was that the right thing to do for Christians? Or did we miss the boat? And that's just one specific example, But I am being devils. I've got where it's like we kind of lost that war. We kind of, or looked not in good light from that kind of stuff. And it's like, you know, these decisions of escapism, I don't think they're necessarily bad. I think it is good to withdraw and escape sometimes. But those are the kind of things is like, you know that a good motivating factor to start your Christian School. Yeah, well, I mean, regardless of how they got started. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's not every school that's like, I think specifically that is like North side. I'm not saying that's like Northwood, but I think that was a big movement is like, oh, we've got to segregate.

20:59 Well, we're gonna start our own school where black people can't go to school here or you know, and I know they're they're not like that now. I think they would renounce all that, but I'm just saying that. Mix of of races at Northwood that's. Great. No, I, I think there has been like repentance from that from these schools, but it's like just the origins. I think that's, I think that's where a lot of that kind. Of Are you happy your kids are at private schools? It doesn't sound. Like I am, but I, I I do I. I do you feel burdened You've you're kind of pulled that you're maybe in the wrong spot or. No, no, I don't. I don't like escapism as a general. I like and maybe it's like a losing battle, like we don't need to fight, but I kind of like engaging a little bit and that kind of stuff. And I'm not a post mail person, but I do think the gospel is powerful in in that sense. Sending my kids to a public school as letting them be held hostage by the enemy for 8 hours a day, for five days a week, 180 days a year.

21:49 No, I I I don't disagree. My kids are not in public school, but you have to. Think, I mean, they're we talk to our kids like, hey, at Northwood, not everyone is a believer. So you got to pick your friend groups. Well, so it's not like they're in this monastery close up against the world. They are, you know, Northwood is a, you know, we'll let really basically anyone come in as long as you can behave right and you have basically good at, you know, academics. So it's not like this cloistered we're away from the world. So I would say a lot of the charges that you know, just don't, they just fall flat to me like. Yeah, yeah. And it, it's just like a thought experiment of if you, if you know these kids in these private tuition schools and you invested the resources and time, could you, is it like you, you know, engage your community or is it like, man, communities like too far gone?

22:42 Because I think if you went back in time 50 years, you might say public schools are OK. Would you disagree with that? I thought my public school, I don't have to go back 50 years, so I could go back, you know, less than that. But I was also in rural Arkansas, where a lot of the teachers and the school board were all Christians because we were in the Bible Belt. That's right. And then you know that. School today is not that way. That's right, maybe probably most of the Christians are in the Christian School. It's like a pulled out or kind of. Thing not there. Oh, right. Yeah. So it's more Christians public school, more secular in the private schools. No, no, I'm saying we're in my hometown. Everything has become secularized. Everything OK?

23:23 Gotcha. So it's just like they're the, the, the, the amount of Christians in general across society has gone down. And so, I mean, there are still a lot of Christians who go to that public school. The only the closest private school is a Church of Christ school like 13 miles away and most people do not send their kids there. Some have, but most don't because of the the concerns about Church of Christ which we did not cover in our cults. There's always time, always time. And so anyway, when you're looking at these systems, it just shows not that everything's A1 size Fidel, but different maybe ways that you would engage. Like if you go back to the Puritans, they'll be like, man, we're we're starting all these schools and we're starting to, you know, it's like you're, you're doing all these things. I'm not saying that stuff is not done now, but but it's Jonathan Edwards, known known for the for the private schools where in premium.

24:22 This is not a general. I think the consensus is for a lot of premiums, it's getting everything is getting there. There you go that, that things are getting so bad that it's like, man, you gotta, you got to kind of protect yourself and isolate. And it's like, you know what? It's, you know, these kind of things. I think there's different spheres where it, where it makes sense or not. You got to make, make those judgement calls on you know what, what is OK for you and your family and where you push and where you don't 'cause I think a lot of people be like, man, politics are like a lost cause. Let's not engage. Other people are like, no, we need to engage and let's work out that kind of thing. And I think people have different, different viewpoints on that. Yeah, I will say this. If you're concerned about the public school, private school split and you're an adult, go teach in a public school. That's great.

25:11 I mean, I think that's good. Jonathan's wife does that. Yeah, I watched it for a long time. It's our church does that there's a lot of Christians who can have a positive influence on kids there. And like you said, I'm teaching one Class A day, I'm coaching, I, I, I sponsor stuff at a private school 'cause that's where my kids are. But I don't, I don't see that as you know, I don't know there's there's a lot of non believers there that I get to interact with and influence and share the gospel with. So that's good. Yeah, no, I, I, I, I, I think it's good. I think, you know, it's good. The more we have believers and all these different things. I think that that, that that's, that's the, the really important, important part.

25:56 I think it. I mean, I know talking to language. He was a public school teacher. It's like, man, it's just like no one know. No one knows like their right hand from their left a lot of times, you know what I mean? Where it's like, man, she went out there for a hand, you know, six or seven years or something like that and just had felt like she had a very dramatic impact on like, so, you know, so many kids and that kind of thing post meal. Anything else you want to say? Yeah, I was you were reading all this and I was thinking of this. This is from Nehemiah, it says in those, this is the last chapter, it says in those days I also saw the Jews had married women from Ashdod, Amman and Moab, As for their children has spoke the language of Ashdod, and none of them was able to speak the language of Judah, but the language of his own people.

26:39 So I contended with them, and I cursed them, and I struck some of them and pulled out their hair and made them swear by God. You shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor take of their daughters for your sons, for yourselves. Yeah. Yeah, and probably you're like, Andrew, how does that fit in? But if you recall our series, oh, I loved it. There was like this lot of this hope. Oh, man, we are gonna we've we've gone into captivity. We're coming out of captivity. We have a chance to do this right. And we're going to set it up. It's rubbable Taught the people. Who's the guy? Before Ezra came over and was a priest, Nehemiah helped build the wall, and they're there not too long ago and they mess it up.

27:26 Yep, every single time. It's like, man, they have everything. And it's because there was, you know, Christ was absent, you know, and it's like that, that, that that's what what you need. So I just don't have faith that I know even the church empowered by Christ, because these were arguably Christ people. Christ had not come in the fullness, but he still hasn't come in the fullness. I just don't have faith that the church is going to be able to do it 'cause I think we're going to always go. You know what, we long for Christ return. We are not getting it. Yep, I I could not agree more. That's post millennialism in a nutshell.

28:07 Next we'll we'll start hitting on the pre mill side of things. Do we transition to the final take? That's it. Yeah, kind of already had our final take. We've talked about private schools. That's great. It's great. I I know the battle. The battle is like we're past the point where it's like over anyway, but it's I think it I don't I'm trying to think of what other areas where it's like just a mass exodus where you retreats, which excuse. Me the word retreat what I don't. I, you don't think it's Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, I, I, I know. I I'm being like provocative with how I'm saying it. It's also like, it's great. Mars Hill pastor, former pastor marked your school for like their men's conferences.

28:52 We'd never call them a retreat cause men don't retreat. It was a men like I don't know what he called it, but it was like we don't use the word retreat. We're on the. Opposite. Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe they said something. It's like funny, like it was like intentional 'cause we don't retreat. That's right. But it's one of those things that's like, I, I'm, I am very pessimistic and I think, you know, don't have a lot of faith in United States government as a, as a whole, where it's like, I don't know what you do from a, from a global perspective and maybe nothing. I mean, in my mind, it's like part of me like believes in America's ideals where it's like, man, if enough people voice their opinion and it's like there's people in a community that can't, but I don't, I don't think it really would change anything, you know what I mean? Because I don't think people have that mindset really anymore, you know what I mean?

29:36 It's, it's like a lost cause. I think we're past that point. Adults ranging from 20 up to 60 and I'm like, they need a spanking. They just literally need some physical punishment to help and wake them up. But, and I'm like, if I were a dictator, I might install some physical punishment because it's just craziness. It it's like mayhem, like it's like culture is so insane. I'm sure it's like 10%. That looks like it's 95%. Yeah, right. That's probably true. But I I just like, man, you're so invested in everything that's evil. Yeah, yeah.

30:18 So yeah. And anything that's good, you berate as though it's evil. It is, and it's like, are we looking at the same thing? Yeah, it's so, so crazy. Like the comment on the short that Jill had about obedience. Goodness, that was out of control. By teaching a child to obey, well, that's groom, that's grooming. I'm like, that's the opposite of grooming. You know, the I'm not saying that there aren't Christian kids who are abused and stuff, but like the stories of foster care kids who have no, you know, base, no foundation, no teaching, no loving parents. Those are like the most at risk. It's not. It's the kids that. Are in stable and the comment too was like weird. It was like grooming, but then they were like well maybe that's the point or something like that like even like more you're like yeah, you're missing the overarching point point of that of that short word.

31:11 Yeah, you look at that, you're like, man, it does look, look bleak from that. It's very, you know, United States of America, very conflicting place right now. You know what I mean? Where it's like it is, it is tough. I yeah, I I could be wrong, maybe post mail is right, but I think I think United States is in for some tough times because that's what's what's going to wake people up. I know, man. It is what's, you know, South America, Africa, you know, we'll see if you know, I, I always look at the numbers and I'm always like, I need to dive in the move. It's like blown away. I don't know what categorizes everything as Christian or not or what, how wide a swath they're working with or whatever, you know, but the numbers are. And it's really my experience too, like even with like Co workers and that kind of thing, it's a pretty big age divide where the younger you get, people are like quote, UN quote, like more open minded, but in a much more negative way, you know what I mean?

32:12 Or even if I'm talking to someone who works with us, who's 60 years old, even if like they don't believe what I believe, it's just like the mind, the mindset's different, you know? It's not. It's like they just called older. People are more open minded. Yeah, I would. Think there's like there's this, I think it like alternates generations, 'cause there is a swath of older people I see on these videos all the time who are just. Crazy. Crazy lost their mind and then there's some young people that seem like they're fairly open minded and can discuss stuff and maybe, you know, if you are a believer and you're listening, raise a large healthy family. Teach them God's ways at the door, on the road, in the morning, at night meals, you know, I mean that. Evangelize through population growth. Honestly, it's like, yeah, honestly, working really well for them, I think.

33:13 Yeah, people looking for God's will. It's like as simple as that. Start a family and I think most things will fall into place, you know, get married, have children, you're going to have responsibility and you discipleship. And it's like, wow, that's that I think really organizes and shapes what you probably should do with your life for, for maybe not for everyone, but for, for a lot of people that it's like people like don't want to get married because they want to put up, they don't want children because they're inconvenient. It's like, and you know, all they are added responsibility, added cost. But it's like, man, that's good. And that is part of what shapes you and changes you and makes you less selfish and rely on God and all these good things where again, this would be such a good case study looking up feminism from our guy where it's like, I don't think it's bad for women to work.

33:59 My wife works. Your wife works, but your. Wife was home for a while. My wife was home for a long while. I think there's so much positive in that and I and I think women can work. It's great, but it does get topsy turvy when the whole culture it's like not one offs. It's like the whole shift is like you're both spouses work so they can send their kids to date so they can pay someone to like clean their house and cook their It's just like weird. I mean it's not weird. I know there's things that are people need that sometimes, but it is like interesting all of these like downstream effects and how feminism, even certain things aren't wrong, just I feel like everything together just does shape your society into something a little bit different.

34:43 Yeah, and it's not exactly the same because I think there's there is merit in like working out. But I worked with a guy who was like, I would never go to a gym, but I split all my own wood. I garden. He's like, he's like. I my, I'm in shape because I'm doing the work that our bodies were meant to do. I don't go lift weights, I don't go run. I don't do all those other things. I just work, you know. Yeah, it, it is. It is so interesting. Yeah. Going back to feminism, this is a broader conversation than that, but it's like Industrial Revolution wasn't that long ago. Where the man goes off to work for 10 hours, doesn't see his family all day. That's like not how things necessarily work. Like it's even like that is different than how it was. Right, because your kids were working. With.

35:28 Revolution. You had some type of family business. You. Were working together as a family. And there's some discipleship in. It's like you're the kids are working at a young age. You're teaching them, Yeah. You teach them how to make barrels, how to make shoes, how to thatch a roof, how to, you know, all those things. We don't do that anymore. And and so 'cause you think like, oh, the man should do this, but it's like, yeah, even some of that is constructed in a different way than what I was not saying that's. And women's are work. Yeah. And if you're on the farm or if you're work, Yeah, exactly. It's like it's just a different. It's more like cohesion for your family where you have oversight and discipleship and all these good things that we. And then you make decisions that are right for your nuclear family cause you know what's right for one couple, how they're going to divvy up the labor isn't necessarily right for another couple, but they're all working together to accomplish a common familial goal. Yeah, there's something, there's something to that, that it's like we've we've lost and it's just part of it. And it is, it is tough because it is tough when dad's gone all day and even a mom is staying home. It's like been with the kids.

36:34 There's like, that's not perfect either, you know, it's like, yeah, there are. Even if you own your own business, though, like I think of Jay Miller, yeah, the cabinet company, he's still going off to work at his own business. It's hard to. It's hard to have. That you have to really like. Family business these days, Yeah. If you got one of those that's working, let us know. Yeah, we'll support you. Maybe we'll we'll Yeah. There you go. You can tell us. Tell us the the tricks, the tricks of the trade. Look at stuff. Anything else you got? I seemed like there was something silly I was going to say that I held off, but I forgot it. So that's that's how good you know by exercising self-control If someone with the Moscow.

37:15 Nice. Idaho family compound. Yeah, I need to look up more into this because I don't know a ton about Doug, but every now and then he's on the news and he's like saying and they have like their, you know, they don't totally like dominate that city, but they've got, they're ingrained a lot. And a lot of a lot of these theonymous movements, it's like they'll try to get, you know, 20 families together and go live in some rural town and you own all the land and you start, you try to start building up. And it's like, I'll use you for the your, it's like you try to be synergistic in that way. And it's like you can have your community and your Community Church is like a fixture in the community because it's like a small rural town. You can have an impact that way versus like a big city, you know, where and you can like maybe give to that community and those kind of things. And, you know, all this stuff.

38:02 So I think there's good things in in that kind of not saying that's like the only way to go, but it's interesting, you know, with some of this stuff making its way and this reaction against, you know, all these things. And they're in this small town now. They now they have 20 families now, you know, pastor the church or whoever's gonna run for office because they got 20. You know what it's like. And you can kinda maybe change this county in Kentucky or whatever it is, you know, probably doesn't work everywhere. Land's expensive, hard to like, you know, uproot. You can see you get the wrong people in leadership. Oh. Boy, they can go South then it is, yeah. People see an opportunity to like, oh, I can control these people, yeah. You're right back at the end of Nehemiah. And we're right back there. Yeah, Yeah, very true.

38:42 I can't. I guess I was thinking about it. I was like, how why have I always thought that post millennials thought that we, I guess they, they do think the millennial reign is right now Just like absolutely. It's just like, 'cause I always thought that, I thought that they believe that things got so great and then there was a millennial reign. But I guess that's not what they're saying. Yeah, post meals man. Get it, get it, get it together pre meal next time. Pre meal dis be pre meal. If if we're ready for it, we'll be good to go. We'll do one of the pre meals next time. Oh, I mean, it's that big of a difference. Oh. Huge difference, huge difference way.

39:24 Different TuneIn to see what the. Difference is, yeah, there's a teaser. That's our take. Thanks for listening to Take Two. Find us wherever you find podcasts and on YouTube for those who want to watch our video cast.