Righteous Responses to Evil

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It is September 16th.
You're good.

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You are good on that day, yeah.
It's Pythagorean Day.

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I did not know that. 9/16/25.
But checks out, yeah. 3 ^2, 4 ^2

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5 ^2 Man, we are 6 days removed
from Charlie Kirk's

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assassination.
Not even a week.

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Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

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And this will actually air a
week and a day after.

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So this should air like, I think
Thursday the 17th.

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Am I doing that right?
Yeah, 17th.

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Nice.
No No no. 18th 1818 Two Plus. 16

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yeah.
So maybe a little bit more

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somber banter than the normal
where where were you?

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And you, I guess this would be
like the new JFK 911.

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Where were you when you found
out he's been shot?

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So Wednesday before I was just
at my at my house, like getting

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stuff together.
I don't know, was it like 4:00

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or something?
I don't know.

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It was like late afternoonish.
Maybe it was like before church.

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I had some work meetings and
then I came out of those and he

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was shot.
And I like between those two

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things, thinking about work,
thinking about Charlie, I

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completely missed chess clubs
that afternoon.

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And they're like, are you coming
to chess clubs?

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I was like, Oh, no.
So I guess it was maybe like

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2:30.
That's just by memory.

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I guess.
We could figure it out, yeah.

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2:30 Eastern Time ish.
Exactly.

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And you just started seeing
things on social media, that

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kind of thing.
And then there was a time too,

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where, I mean, I was seeing
messages that were like, oh,

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he's stable.
I mean, not stable, but they're

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like like pray.
Critically stable or critically?

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Stable, yeah.
And it's like you kind of, you

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kind of saw it was like it was
bad, but I was like, how is he

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stable?
Or like, I was like, that was a

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crazy.
Yeah, there's a lot of reports

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and and of course, you know, I
was praying.

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I think many people.
Yeah, maybe he passed around

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5:00 or 5:30 or something like
that.

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Like like something like that.
It was like everything unfolded

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a couple hours before that or
something like that.

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Yeah.
Very fortunate.

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And.
And I mean, yeah, pretty, pretty

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insane, honestly.
Wasn't.

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I knew who he was, but I wasn't
like super familiar with like

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his work or his reach or all of
that kind of stuff.

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Yeah, and I guess I was.
I'm probably a little bit more

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political than you.
Probably so, yeah.

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Yeah.
So I was more aware of him and

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there were things that he would
say that I would think, oh, I

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wouldn't say it that way, but
but I was generally happy with

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the things he had to say.
I know not everyone was.

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There's some big detractors for
Charlie and I I think the things

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that were kind of like there's
three phrases that like show up

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a lot when I on the anti.
There's one where he said I'm

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not a fan of empathy, one where
he said gun deaths are the cost

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of the Second Amendment and he's
willing to pay that cost.

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And there was 1.
He was talking about diversity,

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equity, inclusion policies where
he said if he sees a Black

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pilot, he's concerned about
there.

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And I think in all of those, if
you listen to the broader

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discussion, you may not come
down at the same side of things,

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but I don't think he was being
what he's being accused.

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Of it's, it's one of those
things, I mean, it's more

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dramatic than this, but it's
like my boy John Piper, his

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famous book Desiring God, he
wants to be called a Christian

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hedonist.
And he's like, he's trying to be

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provocative.
Like people hear hedonism and

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they're like, that's a weird
thing to say.

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You are, you know, I think a lot
of people in the public eye and

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Charlie, he probably said
certain things with a little bit

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of punch because I mean, what's.
To make an impact.

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Yeah, and and me not knowing who
I mean, I would recognize him.

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I've seen some of his clips,
seeing a lot more of his clips

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now.
You can't.

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Hardly get away from it on.
Social media, it's everywhere.

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I'm actually more impressed.
He seems very illogical, and it

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seems like he was maybe a little
bit punchier than I would be,

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but it seems like most things
are very good-natured.

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And he is like, don't agree with
you, but I want to hear you talk

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like he was almost as much about
discourse as you can be.

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Like, you know, like, he wasn't
like, shutting people off

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really.
He would start almost all of his

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talks off with the talk to the
conservatives there.

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Like we are going to show people
we disagree with respect and

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give them space to talk.
And people like Boo them

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sometimes and be like, hey, stop
or whatever, you know?

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Right.
Yeah, On the one where he said

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gun deaths are a cost he's
willing to pay for the 2nd

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Amendment, that's out of this
larger discussion.

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He was, he had previously was
talking about the purpose of the

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Second Amendment.
You know, self-defense is good,

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hunting is good, but that's not
the purpose.

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He knows.
I think even in those quotes he

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was, I mean, I don't know.
Or the analogy I've seen is like

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we drive cars, people are gonna
die.

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Like we it's not that those are
good, but it's like the price we

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pay.
It's like we agree that that's

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accept.
It's not really acceptable, but

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it's like we'll take that risk
essentially.

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Right.
And and so then he was using the

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same phrase like we're willing
to pay the traffic deaths so

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that we have the freedom to
drive.

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I'm willing to pay the gun death
so that we can, you know,

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protect ourselves from a
tyrannical government.

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Yeah, he was not saying like
school shootings are good.

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Correct.
And he's, you know, been very

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outspoken about, you know, you
have banks, you have airports,

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you have, you know, public
buildings that are, you know,

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protected by armed guards.
Why?

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Why are we more concerned about,
you know, airports and banks

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than our schools?
So.

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Oh yeah, yeah.
And then I mean, me, I need to

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do one more phrase.
You were going to that.

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We did not touch base on that,
he said.

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I don't want to move on.
We talked about those three like

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we talked about.
The yeah, the DIE, he's

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basically saying I don't if you
look at the larger context and

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people called him out on it
afterwards so he had a chance to

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explain it so you can hear Oh
yeah.

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But he's basically saying I
don't want to look at a pilot

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and because of their race or
their gender assume, but that's

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what D i.e. has done it brings
out the worst in me.

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So I don't want us hiring for
quotas.

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I want us hiring for standards.
And if we hire for standards,

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then, you know, I, I don't have
to worry about that.

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No, you may still disagree with
that, but I don't know that it's

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like coming out of a place of
hate, you know?

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Crazy and and me personally, I
have I did not know I when I

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thought of him, I really thought
more politics than anything and

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seeing a lot of these videos was
very open about his faith, like

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more so than I I thought.
And I actually, those videos,

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I'm like, man, very unashamed,
like, Hey, Jesus is the only way

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Jesus changed my life.
Like, you know, you, you do

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follow these principles in
Scripture and things are gonna

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go generally pretty good for
you.

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And he was pretty, I think
pretty spot on.

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And I would say we do not come
from the same exact theological

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framework, but it's like, it's
close enough.

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I, I probably differ on some
doctrines with him, but I was

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like, that's about as best as
you can ask for from someone

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that prominent, you know?
Yeah, and he and, you know, and

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the dialogue that he's able to
clearly articulate the basics of

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the gospel, which I don't I
don't know of anything that we

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would disagree on the basics of
gospel is what I heard him

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communicating.
And then post his death, you

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know, I, you know, again, if you
had forgotten, probably a little

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more political than Zach.
So my my newsreels get a lot of

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politics stuff on there on both
sides.

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But I saw a lot of, you know,
there are some people that are

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in the conservative camp these
days that are not your

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traditional.
Oh yeah.

153
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Oh yeah.
Christian, you know, and they've

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said, you know, I'm going to
church for the first time, you

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know, So there was like this
post that they had reshared of

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Charlie's that said, you know,
he just made a post on some

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random Sundays, like, hey, it's
a good day to go to church.

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And so his foundation reposted
that and it was like full of

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common.
People.

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I bet there were a lot of.
People, I went back.

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The first time in 10 years I
went back, you know, I've never

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been there.
It was scary.

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People hugged me.
That's pretty amazing.

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Yeah.
And like, his clipped worry is

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very forthright and clear on the
gospel.

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Those videos have probably been
viewed just an incredible amount

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of time in the last week
comparatively than before, which

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is which is pretty, pretty
amazing.

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Only thing I, I, I, I wish like
his memorial service wasn't

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going to be like on Sunday.
But you know, oh, is it going to

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be this?
Sunday, that's what that's I

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heard it was going to be on
Sunday.

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So it's like if you're going to
church, you got to figure out,

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you know, but I think it's like
West Coast or something.

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So maybe the timing works out
differently with I don't know

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how old times.
I don't remember exactly what

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time, but overall I knew I was
like familiar with them Now,

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obviously much more and overall
like from what the clips I've

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seen, maybe they're selective,
maybe not, but they see I got

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viewed a lot of clips and he
does seem more gracious than I

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Like I knew about him.
I didn't think he was that

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gracious to be honest.
And he seemed very, very

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gracious also very like
stalwart, like he wasn't gonna

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bend, which was good, but he was
he was.

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That's almost the best you can
do.

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Like, I don't know how you
communicate that without doing

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what he didn't.
Even if I didn't agree with

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every single thing, overall
super impressive.

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It is, I mean, such a tragedy.
You can see from the responses

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all over the place that it's
like very visceral responses

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from all all different
directions.

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What if you're someone who
totally disagree with Kirk?

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Or maybe, let's say, you know,
to frame it the other way.

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I don't know who would be the
most diametrically opposed to

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the conservative.
Like who would be?

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This the Kirk guy on the other
side?

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Yeah, maybe.
I mean, I remember the clip of

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Trump finding out about Ruth
Bader Ginsburg dying has showed

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up and you know, that there's
been a contrast.

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I'm not sure that Ruth Bader
Ginsburg is the diametrically

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opposed, you know, like the the
left's Charlie Kirk, but I don't

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like, you know, who's the guy
who was down in Fort Hogg.

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Do you know what I'm talking
about?

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You don't know.
Actually, it's, it's probably

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hard to, it feels like at some
level, progressivism is such a

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moving target.
It's hard to like have like

207
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someone be in that position for
10 years or something, you know?

208
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Yeah.
But I guess the point is, no

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matter who that is, you know,
yeah, it wouldn't be right for

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us to be rejoicing that that
person was assassinated.

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That's that, That's right.
It's almost like, and these are

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different situations.
Totally.

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It's like if George Floyd or
someone died and people were

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like, I'm glad he's dead.
Like you should, even if you

215
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don't agree with how the
politics should be like, oh,

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that's sad.
That a human life.

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Died.
Yeah.

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And I think because George Floyd
is a good because I did hear

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people say I did read.
I didn't hear him.

220
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I read some comments.
Well, the right was rejoicing

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when he died.
And I was like, I don't remember

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anyone rejoicing like I was, you
know, we had some skeptical

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concerns, like what actually
happened.

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And, you know, if Chauvin killed
him, then, you know, he should

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be held accountable.
But I don't know if anyone that

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was rejoicing, you know, Yeah.
So we're there probably are

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people that we could rejoice who
die, Right.

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Right.
It's someone who's actually

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tortured and killed someone, or
you know, an actual Nazi like

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Hitler or someone you.
Know and that's a a.

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Different thing all.
Yeah.

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Charlie was talking not, not,
you know, not not taking any

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actions that we're aware of.
So well.

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The rest of our podcast today
will be focused not as a tribute

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necessarily to Charlie, but it
is inspired by Charlie, who

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passed away, who was
assassinated, passed away.

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Almost seems like it's too.
Soft.

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Too soft.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Assassinate is a good word.
You don't hear assassinated a

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lot.
I mean, for good, thank

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goodness.
Yeah.

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I think that carries a a good
weight to it.

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But we want to talk about how do
we respond righteously to evil.

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And, you know, there should be
some sadness there, probably

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whenever we see evil.
I think we all have this natural

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inclination that we want
justice.

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Yeah.
And then, you know, really, it's

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how do we live courageously as a
Christian in spite of the fact

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that there's going to be evil?
So.

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I I think that's great episode.
I'm looking forward to get into

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it.
All right, let's take it to the

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00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:40,760
next level from the hearts of
the low country in South

253
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,920
Carolina.
It's the Take Two podcast where

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00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,120
we take theology to the next
level.

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00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:52,920
When evil things happen to good
people, how do we respond?

256
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:58,880
And I say, good people, You
know, you could read Job and you

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00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,160
might think Job is perfect, but
we know he wasn't.

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So in one sense, really, no
one's a good person.

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00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,520
That's a good flawed off the off
the cuff, like that's a good

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thing to set the.
Precedent We all deserve hell.

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We get heaven through Christ
taking our place, and so

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everything that we have here is
got by God's grace.

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00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,800
Yeah, yeah, it's good.
So in a sense, while evil was

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perpetrated between one person
to one person, between Charlie

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and God, Charlie didn't get
shorted.

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He got God's grace to him.
So it's a good way to kind of

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get a big picture for it.
But I think we can still say

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this was an evil act and we can
grieve for that.

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Yeah.
And the thing that's kind of

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00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:48,080
nice about scripture is that you
have these, you have models or

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00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:49,960
you, you see these kind of thing
that's happened several in

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different ways.
Maybe you see bad things happen

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to people who clearly deserve
them.

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Some people, maybe they didn't
deserve it as much.

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And so it's not like you're
working in a vacuum.

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00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:05,000
There's some stuff you can kind
of grab onto to help, you know,

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00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,680
understand this better.
But I think you're right.

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00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:10,320
Like you have that feeling like,
man, this is not right.

279
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,800
Yeah, yeah.
And and there are probably some

280
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,680
Bible verse Bible stories that I
read.

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00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:20,200
Like, you know when the soldier
drew back the arrow at random

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00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,800
and it hits Ahab, you know, like
dude got what he what was coming

283
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:25,160
to him.
But he's that's that kind of

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00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,200
justice.
Yeah, but he's a very yeah.

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00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,440
There's no doubt about it.
You're not like, well, he had

286
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,280
some bad days, some good days.
You're like, no, no, he's a bad

287
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:34,000
dude.
Yeah, yeah.

288
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,640
So there are places in the
Bible, like Zach was saying,

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00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,200
where there are people who are
going through tough times, and a

290
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:43,960
lot of those are recorded in the
Psalms.

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00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,720
David has laments, Psalms of
laments.

292
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:53,480
There's Asaph, Psalm 73.
You could read the whole book of

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00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,760
Lamentations.
Yeah, it's titled that for a

294
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,560
reason.
Where where, you know, Jeremiah

295
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:06,760
is, is lamenting the downfall of
Israel of Judah to Babylon.

296
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,040
I thought maybe we could read
through Psalm 10.

297
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:16,360
I know it's very short, but and,
and this is where David is, is

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00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,000
feeling the pressures and
lamenting and kind of, you know,

299
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,440
calling out to Lord says, why do
you stand afar off, O Lord?

300
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,800
Why do you hide yourself in
times of trouble and pride?

301
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,600
The wicked hotly pursue the
afflicted.

302
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:34,160
Let them be caught in the plots
which they have devised for the

303
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,640
wicked boast of his heart's
desire.

304
00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,680
And the greedy man curses and
spurns the Lord and the wicked

305
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,880
and the haughtiness of his
countenance does not seek him.

306
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,160
Think I'm reading the wrong one.
I'm supposed to be reading Psalm

307
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:46,040
13.
Nice.

308
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,360
Shift pretend you didn't hear
anything.

309
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,520
Here we go.
But that is, that is one of

310
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:52,840
them.
It's just the wrong limit.

311
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,480
All right, so here is the Psalm
13 the wrong one I meant to

312
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,640
write.
And, and they both start off

313
00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,440
with, why do you stand far off?
Or how long will you forget me?

314
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,560
All right, so here's Psalm 13.
How long the Lord will you

315
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,280
forget me forever?
How long will you hide your face

316
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,400
from me?
How long shall I take counsel on

317
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,880
my soul, having sorrow in my
heart all the day?

318
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,720
How long will my enemy be
exalted over me?

319
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,440
Consider and answer me, O Lord
my God, and lighten my eyes and

320
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,920
or I will sleep the sleep of
death, and my enemy will say

321
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,600
I've overcome him, and my
adversaries will rejoice when

322
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,640
I'm shaken.
But I trusted in your living

323
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,040
kindness.
My heart shall rejoice in your

324
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,400
salvation.
I will sing to the Lord because

325
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,520
He has dealt bountifully with
me.

326
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,160
I I like that a lot and I think
a good I was trying to look up

327
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,320
this definition.
I can't trying to find this, but

328
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:46,880
lament is different than just
sorrow that there's a trusting

329
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:51,200
God element to it.
Like you're kind of re reframing

330
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:54,600
in your prayer, in your
complaints.

331
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,280
You're ultimately choosing a
trusting God, which is different

332
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:01,040
than calling out and being like,
I got this myself.

333
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,240
Or, you know, you can you can
take this emotion and run the a

334
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,200
bad way in a way that might not
be the same as a biblical

335
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,680
lament, like the the psalmist
does a good job of tying it

336
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,319
back.
Right, yeah, 'cause he, he ends

337
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:16,040
saying, I am going to trust in
your loving kindness.

338
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,839
I'm going to rejoice in your
salvation.

339
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,599
I'm gonna sing to you, Lord,
because even in the midst of

340
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:27,240
this, I can say I have been
dealt bountifully with like

341
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:28,720
you've dealt bountifully with
me.

342
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,840
Yeah.
And another place, you know, a

343
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,560
place that you can go to 2nd
Corinthians 4.

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00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,520
So this just reference, but you
can see Paul there at the end of

345
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,680
that talking about how these
momentary light afflictions

346
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,960
build up for us an eternal
weight of glory.

347
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,960
And so that we focus on the
things that are unseen as those

348
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,080
things that are seen, because
the unseen are the eternal and

349
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,720
the same things that are seen
are temporal.

350
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,680
And so we can draw comfort in
there.

351
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,000
And and you know, Paul, you
might scoff at him saying

352
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,440
momentary light afflictions, but
he's saying in light of.

353
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:05,760
Yeah, compared to it, that's
right.

354
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,720
Because he also in that same
book talks about how many times

355
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,760
he was beaten and and lashed and
left for dead and shipwrecked

356
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,760
and and all those things.
So he went through it.

357
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,960
Yeah, I, I think that's good.
And it's something we see it so

358
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,360
often modeled in Scripture.
It's a good thing to do because

359
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:23,680
I think some peoples or some
denominations, wherever it can

360
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,440
shy away from me.
OK, God's in control.

361
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,560
Like you don't need to, you
know, cry out about these

362
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:30,480
things.
Or it's like, you know, this

363
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,280
emotional thing, you know, but
it's like, man, you can't escape

364
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:34,640
it.
In Scripture, where it's like

365
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,040
story after story, there's a lot
of this crying out and, and

366
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:39,920
trusting in God.
And then there's also crying out

367
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:43,120
and leaning into rage and not
trusting in God.

368
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:48,080
And that that does not end well.
Yeah, And there are places where

369
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,280
David expresses his anger more
than what we just read.

370
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:55,560
You know, famously there's one
passage where he's talking

371
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:57,920
about, you know, dashing baby's
heads against the rocks.

372
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,240
And then you're like, how do we
deal with that?

373
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:01,560
Is that figurative?
Is that literal?

374
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:07,000
Is he like really wanting that?
And I think that that I, I, I

375
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,600
would say based on Scripture on
that is probably an example that

376
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,000
God can handle your strong
emotions.

377
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,640
And it may be OK for you for you
to express those to God, like

378
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,320
submit those at his feet.
God, this is how I'm feeling.

379
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:25,120
I'm mad, you know, I want this
thing that, you know, I want

380
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:27,680
this evil to befall those evil
doers.

381
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,120
And then you go, but I want to
trust in you.

382
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:33,520
And you take that breath back
and you go say, you know.

383
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,560
And then I think it's also good
to think about the fact that

384
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,320
we're guilty, too.
We're not.

385
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:40,320
Yeah.
Yeah, you can't.

386
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,040
It's not just a total one sided
thing that that's good, that

387
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,280
perspective.
And we may not be Hitler like

388
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,240
the actual Hitler, not the yeah,
yeah, but we're also not Jesus

389
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,240
either, right?
So we're closer to Hitler than

390
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,400
we are.
Just as bad of maybe not just as

391
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,160
bad, but you can make that that
mistake.

392
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,400
So, you know, you mentioned some
imprecatory Psalms.

393
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,080
You know, I like that 'cause
they're in Scripture.

394
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:08,120
Yeah, it's probably not good to.
Get super specific all the time

395
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,480
depending on the situation.
I think, I think you can run

396
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,480
into trouble if you're like man
Co worker looked at me the wrong

397
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,680
way in preparatory Psalm time.
But those are in there and those

398
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,280
sentiments are there.
I think those things are OK to

399
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,960
pray to God that he would right
these wrongs and these major

400
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,480
atrocities because God doesn't,
you know, sweep things under the

401
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:27,920
rug.
It's not like those things are

402
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:29,200
OK.
Right, right, right.

403
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:36,440
We have this reference in here.
I'm going to look up if I can

404
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:42,640
find again, yeah, these pastoral
guardrails, Proverbs 2417.

405
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:54,480
I can find that quickly.
It says do not rejoice when your

406
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,800
enemy falls, and do not let your
heart be glad when he stumbles,

407
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,200
or the Lord will see it and be
displeased and turn his anger

408
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,440
away from him.
Do not fret because of evil

409
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:12,000
doers or be envious of the
wicked, for there will be no

410
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,160
future for the evil man.
The lamp of the wicked will be

411
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,520
put out.
And so these kind of these

412
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,680
guardrails of we're not supposed
to be fearful of evil.

413
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,800
Yeah, that's right.
But we're also not supposed to

414
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,800
be like rejoicing.
You almost the lowest common

415
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,560
denominator you kind of playing
their game where that's a good

416
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,240
bounce because I think most
people probably either struggle

417
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,200
one way or the other where yeah,
where they're like, Oh no world

418
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,360
is ending or it's like, let's
get our rifles boys.

419
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,880
We're we're storming whatever.
You know, I'm, I'm probably the,

420
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,840
the, the ladder of those two.
Let's get our rifles, boys.

421
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,200
And I feel like there's, you
know, in, in our current age,

422
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:55,960
there's like this undercurrent,
I don't think it's like

423
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,840
prevalent, but especially in, in
like conservative theological

424
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,880
circles of this, like theonomy
where it's like nation state of

425
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,320
Israel, this is great.
And, and you know, of God's

426
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,080
people in America is going to be
a, a Christian nation in that

427
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:10,280
way.
And it's like, oh, some things

428
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:11,720
are good in there.
Some things are maybe a little

429
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,160
bit too aggressive.
You know, how do we do this?

430
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,040
But some of the response to this
Charlie Kirk stuff all over the

431
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,600
place, even on the side that is
like, man, this was a terrible

432
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,640
thing.
Some people aren't like time to

433
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,520
take back our nation, boys, You
know what I mean?

434
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,280
Yeah.
And I definitely you sit back

435
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,680
and you think and say, OK, is
this a line in the sand because

436
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,920
you've seen that that we start
acting differently.

437
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,440
Well, maybe what?
But what does that look like?

438
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,360
Yeah.
Does it, Does it look like US

439
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:45,440
carrying our ARS everywhere?
Like, you know you got all your

440
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,280
ARS.
So many, so many.

441
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:48,680
You're right.
You're right about that.

442
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:54,720
And, you know, I, I think that,
you know, you, you read through

443
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:59,680
social media and I think there's
this initial wave of reaction of

444
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,360
anger in the moment and stuff.
And then hopefully if you're a

445
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:06,120
believer, you kind of you can
reel that back in and go, OK,

446
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:08,680
what's our right response to
this?

447
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,800
Cause it's not going out.
Obviously it's not going out and

448
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,720
doing the exact same thing that
we found evil and reprehensive

449
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,560
that was done to Charlie.
Yeah, no, no, that that's

450
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,640
really, really good 'cause I
think that's the question a lot

451
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,640
of people are asking, what do I
do or what do I do?

452
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,760
It's like maybe it just seems
like this tangential thing, like

453
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,920
you're familiar with them on
social media, maybe follow them

454
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,160
closely, maybe really into
politics.

455
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,080
But it almost seems like in a
lot of ways very closely

456
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,000
connected, but then in a lot of
ways it's very far away.

457
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,120
And it's like how do I can I do
anything?

458
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:44,400
Yeah, I know, because you
wonder, not to take anything

459
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,520
away from the tragedy 'cause it
was a tragedy.

460
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,560
But the information superhighway
just lets us know all the

461
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,360
tragedies that get reported, you
know, and there's tragedies that

462
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:55,240
go unreported.
You know, there's other people

463
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,640
who were murdered on the 10th of
September.

464
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,240
That's one thing you see a lot
too, is like, do you guys care

465
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,040
about school shootings?
And it's like most people are

466
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:04,200
like, yeah, I care about that.
Or like I didn't.

467
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:06,040
Maybe they honestly didn't see
that.

468
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,680
Or it's, but that's like that's
like used as the, oh, you don't

469
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,760
care about this.
Like on the other side, like

470
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,440
trying to undercut this, which
for the most part seems

471
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,720
disingenuous, a little bit.
Like, it's almost like I would

472
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,480
hope they could see that too,
but I get what they're saying.

473
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,360
Maybe.
I think on the other side of

474
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:27,720
things, people feel like certain
major tragedies weren't made a

475
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,320
big enough deal or something
like that.

476
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,160
You know what I mean?
I think that's probably more

477
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,960
reactionary, I would hope, than
really feeling that.

478
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:40,800
Way Scripture seems to somehow
indicate that sometimes the

479
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:45,080
church will be the first people
to experience trials,

480
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,960
tribulations.
There's a verse here in First

481
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:52,800
Peter 4/17 that says for it is
time for judgment to begin with

482
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,320
the household of God.
That yeah, that's that Old

483
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,120
Testament quote too.
Like they're quoting from.

484
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,520
I don't.
Know it's not all.

485
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:06,800
Maybe let's see.
Jeremiah 25/20/29 is the no

486
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:14,880
sorry First Timothy 315 Hebrews
3 six First Peter 2/5 are the

487
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,040
are the crossroads.
I'm wrong on this?

488
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,080
But it says to begin with the
House of God.

489
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,160
And if it begins with us first,
what will the outcome for those,

490
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,560
what will be the outcome for
those who do not obey the gospel

491
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,560
of God?
So here we're saying God's going

492
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:36,320
to basically purify his church.
First, if you read the upper

493
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,680
room discourse, you know, he
talked about, you know, I'm the

494
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,280
vine, you're the branches.
If you abide in me, you're going

495
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,560
to bear much fruit.
He who doesn't abide in me, he's

496
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,680
going to be cut off and burned.
If you do abide in me, you're

497
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,600
going to be pruned.
And so there's this idea like

498
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,440
even when you are doing what you
need to be do doing, quote UN

499
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,760
quote, you're going to be pruned
so you can even bear more fruit.

500
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:03,480
So then that kind of, you know,
ask the question, you know, how

501
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:08,400
do we, you know, what do we do
when we see that we're being

502
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,240
pruned?
You know, how do we deal with?

503
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,080
That what's your response?
Yeah, I think, I think that's

504
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:14,960
good, I think.
Did you find this?

505
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,000
I'm going to find it.
I know it is.

506
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,080
Maybe it's not all this might
maybe more of an illusion.

507
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,760
I'm going to find it whether
it's the last thing last.

508
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,160
Thing I do, well, you just
interrupt.

509
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,280
I'm going to keep going with the
next segment because it's how do

510
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,040
we leave room for God's
vengeance?

511
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,360
And you know, how, what does
that practically look like?

512
00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:36,120
And hopefully you're familiar
with this passage about leaving

513
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:39,480
room for God's vengeance.
And I think this actually is

514
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,920
maybe a quote from the Old
Testament, but let me read it if

515
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,640
I can find it.
Romans 12.

516
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,080
Yeah, I think, I think this is
like a proverb or something

517
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:54,680
crazy like that.
Romans 12/17 and, and I don't

518
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,000
know if you've, if our listeners
have ever heard any, you know,

519
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,080
real good in depth study on the
book of Romans.

520
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,280
Yeah.
Where would they find that you

521
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:05,320
know?
You know, if you're a new

522
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,880
listener, go back to the season
1 because we really covered all,

523
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,640
all, all of Romans on our
Tuesdays.

524
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,120
But if you recall, 12 comes off
of, you know, 8-9 and twelve

525
00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:16,000
really coming off of this
theological discourse.

526
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,920
And 12 is really this practical
outworking of that.

527
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,440
And so here we go. 17 says,
never pay back evil for evil to

528
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,760
anyone.
Respect what is right in the

529
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,720
sight of all men.
If possible, so far as it

530
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,880
depends on you, be at peace with
all men.

531
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,360
Never take your own revenge,
beloved, but leave room for the

532
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:38,560
wrath of God.
For it is written here in the

533
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,520
Old Testament quote.
Vengeance is mine, I will repay,

534
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,600
says the Lord.
But if your enemy is hungry,

535
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,120
feed him and if he is thirsty,
give him a drink for in doing

536
00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:50,720
so, you will heap burning coals
on his head.

537
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,760
Now, these are going out to
individual people.

538
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,560
So you wouldn't want to try to
make a government laws off this.

539
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,960
Like government has to kind of
be more blind to like, you know,

540
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,280
justice and, and, but as
individuals, we can have that

541
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,720
mercy and exercise mercy.
Yeah, I think that's good.

542
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,200
And if you go back to like the
Reformers, they did make major

543
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,880
distinction between a civil
magistrate and what their role

544
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,920
was and say there is, you know,
this is a good thing for them to

545
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,720
do.
Maybe you don't do, but

546
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,000
government, you know, has the
sword and that kind of thing.

547
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,640
This is the illusion.
You'll be the judge if this is

548
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,240
close enough or not.
This is what I was thinking.

549
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,400
I think Ezekiel 9 there there's
a prophecy.

550
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,920
This is a.
Deep cut.

551
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:37,440
Deep cut where supposed to put a
mark on the foreheads of men who

552
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,800
sigh and groan over abominations
that are committed in the temple

553
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,600
and to the others, you know,
pass through the city and you're

554
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,560
gonna strike and just start
killing people, kill old men

555
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,320
outright, young men and maidens,
little children and women.

556
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,920
But if you see the mark, don't
touch them and begin in my

557
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,960
sanctuary in my house.
That's where you start in the

558
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,600
temple and then you're gonna go
out into Jerusalem.

559
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,800
But you're starting with the
people that we don't you know,

560
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:03,760
in there if they're doing doing
some wrong stuff.

561
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,680
So I don't know that's close
enough or not, but.

562
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:06,720
Yeah, Yeah.
That's what I was thinking.

563
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,840
Yeah.
That that's, that's good.

564
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,000
And as you just said, there is a
place for judgement.

565
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,040
You know, we have talked about
the covenants, maybe not in

566
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,400
death.
It's hard for me to remember.

567
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:19,640
I'm getting, I'm getting old
tech.

568
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:26,280
But the Noaic covenant, maybe
the Noaic dispensation would say

569
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,040
that if man sheds blood, then by
man his blood should be shed.

570
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,200
And this was something that
Charlie was on record 'cause he

571
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,400
got asked a lot, and he was
saying, you know, the death

572
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:40,520
penalty actually values life.
We're saying human life is so

573
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,920
precious that if you take it,
we're gonna take yours.

574
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,400
Because that that's used to put
people like attack like, oh,

575
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,240
Christians.
But yeah, it's like when you

576
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,960
think about it, it is elevating
human life in a very.

577
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,880
Because if we don't do anything,
they're like, well, then it

578
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,920
doesn't matter, you know, yeah,
we're this is, you know, we are

579
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,240
so pro-life that we are pro
death penalty.

580
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:07,120
And, and the Bible is that in,
in back in Genesis, and it is in

581
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,480
Romans 2, Romans 13, one says
every person is to be in

582
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,160
subjection to the governing
authorities.

583
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,200
For there is no authority except
from God, and those which exists

584
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,280
are established by God.
Therefore whoever resists

585
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,600
authority as opposed to the
ordinance of God, and they who

586
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,280
have opposed will receive
condemnation upon themselves.

587
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,480
For rulers are not a cause of
fear for good behavior, but for

588
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,760
evil.
Do you want to have No Fear of

589
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,480
authority?
Do what is good, and you will

590
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,520
have the praise of the same.
For it is a minister of God to

591
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,000
you for good.
And here's our free key

592
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,360
sentence.
But if you do what is evil, be

593
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,040
afraid, for it does not bear the
sword for nothing.

594
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,600
For it is a minister of God, an
avenger, who brings wrath on the

595
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:54,440
one who practices evil.
Yeah, so as in some sense, as a

596
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,120
Christian, you know, you can
live.

597
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,240
Hey, you're doing what's right.
You know, it doesn't apply if

598
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,040
the government's totally corrupt
or that kind of thing.

599
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,960
Like maybe things get a little
dicier, but it's one of those

600
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,720
things where governments a good,
it's like one of these cuts both

601
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,840
ways, like on both sides of the
aisle where it's like

602
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,480
government's a good thing and
it's there to protect and

603
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,520
regulate and that kind of thing.
At the same time, government can

604
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,600
get a little crazy.
And we see examples of that in

605
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,160
Scripture too, you know.
But for Paul to say that with

606
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,440
the Roman government that that
carries weight, right?

607
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,080
Right, because we know the, the
especially during Paul's time

608
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,720
when you have, you know, the guy
marrying a horse, I think that

609
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,920
was like earlier in his life.
I think if I have my Roman

610
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,160
emperors right and then he dies
and then there's another one and

611
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:37,840
then Nero, I think that's right
order.

612
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:43,320
But we know that the the Roman
Empire was crazy with debauchery

613
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,000
and ruthlessness.
And he's going to say, hey, you

614
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,080
know, obey our government.
And, and I mean, he's going to

615
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,320
come his death, you know, I
mean, just the fact that that's

616
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,760
coming from his mouth, that
gives some perspective to where

617
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,400
I think we can go both ways in
our government.

618
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,880
Great government got some
problems.

619
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,520
America's a great country, got
some problems, got some good

620
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,760
things.
But, you know, every context is

621
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,000
different.
But that that's a really good

622
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,880
point, that God uses the
government to keep evil in

623
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,720
check.
So we were kind of talking

624
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,880
earlier, you know, and we can
talk.

625
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,160
There's other things we have in
the notes.

626
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:20,400
Probably not gonna get to all
the notes.

627
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,160
There are times when our
emotions fail and then we need

628
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,000
to anchor in the truths of the
word.

629
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,080
Yeah, Sunday I was leading
worship and I was like, you

630
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,960
know, what do we do in times of
crisis?

631
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,240
Well, we are people of the
Bible.

632
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,000
We're people of fellowship.
We're people who exalt Christ.

633
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,720
We're people of prayer.
That's Acts 242.

634
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,720
Yeah.
So the building blocks of what

635
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:47,120
makes us good Christians are the
same in times that mountaintops

636
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,800
and the valleys, you know,
that's right.

637
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,600
It's those same building blocks.
And so we got to stay hold on

638
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,240
those.
We kind of did talk about in our

639
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,200
opening discussion, you know,
can we go on the offense?

640
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,920
Can we like preemptively, you
know, like Minority Report, take

641
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,520
people out preemptly?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

642
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:04,680
I think clearly the answer is
no.

643
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:10,240
Yeah, that's good.
But we can be off on the offense

644
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,720
with our thoughts and ideas.
I think that's what Charlie

645
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,400
tried to do.
He tried to that's.

646
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:15,520
Right.
Carry the boy.

647
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:16,720
Good.
Yeah.

648
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,000
Through his words in in a
congenial as congenial manner as

649
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,240
he could.
Yeah, he needed a good

650
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,840
combination of like winsome
arguments, but also just boldly

651
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,680
declaring the gospel, which is
it's great.

652
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,600
Like, you know, evidential
apologetics.

653
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,640
You're using like pre sub stuff,
you're like using everything.

654
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,320
I think that's good using all
the tools and there's reason for

655
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,120
this.
But at the end of the day, Jesus

656
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,520
is Lord, whether you like it or
not, and that's like going to

657
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,000
win the day.
Yeah.

658
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,440
And then there's, I know that
there are some people who did

659
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,320
not like he would say he would
welcome, he would like, I

660
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,040
welcome gay people to the
conservative movement.

661
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,000
And he's like, I disagree with
what you're doing in your

662
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,800
bedroom, but that doesn't mean
you can't be for free speech

663
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,520
and, you know, close borders and
stuff like that.

664
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,720
So you do see him, he, he did
have a foot in the political

665
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,840
world and a foot in the
Christian world.

666
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,760
And I, I, I, I think as maybe as
good as you can, he balanced

667
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,719
those well.
Yeah, that's, that's like such a

668
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,120
tough thing.
And I and I think you're right.

669
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,440
He did as good as you can.
And and you know, we're not

670
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,040
obviously we're not in a single
little Charlie Kirk, but when we

671
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,840
are looking at arguments that
those couple of response videos,

672
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,480
we're trying really hard to do
things like steel man arguments

673
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:31,800
and still people aren't happy.
But it's we're not trying to be

674
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,719
like undercut or be deceptive or
be like, gotcha.

675
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:36,120
We're being like this.
You know what I mean?

676
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,120
It's a hard thing to do.
Yeah, yeah.

677
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,760
It's never my goal to
underrepresent.

678
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,040
That's the atheist point of
view.

679
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,440
And I, you know, but whenever
you hear your side being being

680
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,840
mouthed by someone else, you're
like you, you didn't understand

681
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,120
what I was saying, but it so it
can be difficult.

682
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,840
So we're not supposed to be, you
know, the aggressors.

683
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:02,520
We can, you know, you know, talk
about bringing truth.

684
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,080
Yeah, that's good.
There's, you know, if you talk

685
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,320
about spiritual warfare, fusion
6, the very first thing is about

686
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,360
the truth.
Paul talks about bringing

687
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:16,760
captive all these ideas and
well, I can't remember the exact

688
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,200
wording, but you know, all the
thoughts that are against God.

689
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,600
We do fight against not real
flesh and blood, but against

690
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,720
rulers and and the
principalities.

691
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:34,080
And you know, there's a guy that
you may have heard of, wonder

692
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:39,560
where this is going, but he will
say that spiritual warfare is on

693
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,120
the idea basis so that if
there's an idea out there in our

694
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,960
society that everyone is just
like, it's so clear, but they're

695
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,960
believing the lie, it's like
spiritual warfare.

696
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,640
I I can get behind that a little
bit where the the thought virus

697
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,400
is really, it's like you can
really people seem so blind and

698
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,000
you're like, wow, I I feel like
you're right.

699
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,680
That's gotta be some of that you
mentioned a little bit like I

700
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:06,000
think people do get a little bit
crazy with the physicality like

701
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,840
I'm gonna take I'm gonna take
let's take them down 1 by 1.

702
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,440
But I think, you know, we talked
about this at home groups a

703
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,960
little bit this self-defense.
I think that's one area where

704
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,600
this like sudden spike in
adrenaline emotions a good

705
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:17,920
thing.
If you saw something in the

706
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,760
moments like it's probably good
that we have that.

707
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,720
I think you can almost like this
is probably not the right words,

708
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:28,200
like fantasize about that stuff
too much where that's probably a

709
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,440
problem, Like I'm gonna do this.
But it's good that that impulse

710
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:37,440
is in us a little bit.
Not to totally just like be like

711
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,840
taking it unnecessarily, but
protection, yeah.

712
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,600
Yeah, I, I, I, I want to
wholeheartedly agree with you

713
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,520
because I think we're
biologically wired to respond to

714
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,720
threats with that flight or
fight reaction.

715
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:58,640
And so we see something like
this, that on TV that in 100

716
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,040
years ago we would never be able
to see that unless we were

717
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,360
there.
And we see that and it's like

718
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:09,120
we're wired to go take action,
to protect, to, you know, take

719
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,760
down the aggressor.
But you know, there's no one

720
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,000
around me that that is actually
doing that.

721
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,760
So.
Yeah, and on top of it, you

722
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,080
know, most Americans were you're
you're not like on the farm

723
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,320
doing.
It's like, you know, it's like

724
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,440
even more like pin up.
You know what I mean?

725
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,800
You know, so it's we.
Want to have like, I don't know,

726
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,320
some like bear wrestling or
something that people can go get

727
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,880
their adrenaline worked out on?
Good impulse.

728
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,360
You don't want to abuse that or
because I think you can feed

729
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,200
that in a bad way, but it's you
don't want to like shut that off

730
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:40,680
all.
Right.

731
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,320
Maybe we'll wrap with these
peacemaking rules of life

732
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,720
towards the end.
James would say that we were to

733
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:58,000
be slow to speak, slow to anger.
Proverbs would would say that we

734
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,080
need to verify something is true
before we're.

735
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,720
That's good too, because.
It's easy.

736
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:05,240
And honestly, with all the
information we have, it actually

737
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:07,960
is hard to verify stuff because
there's so much bad information

738
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,440
out there.
You're like, oh, I've seen this

739
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,600
and someone's like, no, it's not
true, but it is true.

740
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,200
It's like maybe it's kind of
true or you know it is hard to

741
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,040
do something.
Yeah, I made a post that said

742
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:19,960
basically said, you know, the
person was complaining.

743
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,240
They they they said I got fired
because and I and I saw that and

744
00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:25,320
it was a video on real that's
gone.

745
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,680
I'm like, someone could
challenge me and say you didn't

746
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,520
see it.
I'm like, well it was a

747
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,440
screenshot on the video I saw
that purported to be true.

748
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,360
You know, you accepted to be
true.

749
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,360
Yeah.
What else we?

750
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,720
Oh yeah, we got this one's like
this one's like going bless,

751
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:43,360
don't curse 'cause you think
about a situation like this.

752
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:49,040
That's a challenging thing to do
when it comes to how we're

753
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,760
supposed to respond that that I
think is tougher than saying,

754
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,160
OK, I'll just be slow to, I'll
be, I'll like try to cool down a

755
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,360
little bit going a step further.
That's that's tough.

756
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,560
Proverbs also speaks about if
it's within your power to do

757
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,760
good, you need to.
You need to do that.

758
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,840
Don't withhold it.
That can take different shapes

759
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,800
and forms.
Sometimes that is stepping up to

760
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,120
protect someone.
That's right.

761
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:13,800
Yeah.
You know, if it's within your

762
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,320
power to protect them, protect
them.

763
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,120
But it, you know, maybe it's
hey, was it was within your

764
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,240
power to give your enemy a a, a
blessing.

765
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:24,320
You should.
Do that.

766
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:25,360
You should.
Yeah, you should do that.

767
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:26,720
Yeah.
And the flip side of that is

768
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,880
James Ford says something like
to him that knows to do good and

769
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,600
doesn't do it, That's bad news.
You know, yeah, yeah.

770
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,040
Yeah, and then we can all be
praying for our leaders

771
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,800
regardless.
There's leaders.

772
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,520
Oh, there's so many different
leaders in different capacities.

773
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,640
You country, state, million
different organizations could

774
00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:46,200
need to be praying for church
leaders.

775
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,040
That's a family leaders.
School leaders.

776
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:49,920
Yeah, everywhere.
Yeah, yeah, everywhere.

777
00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:53,760
So hopefully this has been good
to kind of work through, think

778
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,960
through, you know, different
responses.

779
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:03,160
Pray that those people who went
Sunday to church, to a church,

780
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,680
that they're going to go back to
a church where they won't hear

781
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,000
the good news.
There will be believers there

782
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,440
who are salt and light and
loving and caring and

783
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:17,120
hospitable, and you know that we
can all do that because we're

784
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,840
all image bearers.
That's right.

785
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,000
That's right.
And so we are to love one

786
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,840
another, treat each other as
though, you know, we, you know,

787
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,320
there's that song about being
God's hands and feet and in his

788
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:30,320
heart.
So what?

789
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,240
Let's go out and do that.
I love it.

790
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,440
I'm glad we got to do this.
This will be airing.

791
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,440
And like 18th, you said.
Yeah, the 18th.

792
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:38,600
Yeah.
All right.

793
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,120
Any closing words or thoughts or
comments?

794
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,360
All right, that's our take.
Thanks for listening to Take

795
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,560
Two.
Find us wherever you find

796
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,080
podcasts and on YouTube for
those who want to watch our

797
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:59,520
video cast.
Yeah.