I Think, Therefore I Am | Part 3
Episode 2.74
Can Descartes Escape Solipsism?
In this episode, Michael and Zach tackle one of the most common—and serious—objections to Descartes’ project: the Thomist charge that radical doubt collapses into solipsism. If all that survives the doubt is “I am a thinking thing,” how do we ever get back to the real world, other minds, or trustworthy knowledge?
Rather than stopping at the cogito, this conversation traces Descartes’ actual escape strategy, step by step. From the certainty of the thinking self, to contingency, to the necessity of a self-existent God, the discussion focuses on the critical move: God’s moral perfection as the foundation for epistemic trust. Without a non-deceptive God, solipsism wins. With one, Descartes claims a narrow—but real—bridge back to reality.
Along the way, the episode weighs:
-Why Thomists argue Descartes starts in the wrong place
-Whether the “Cartesian Circle” is fatal or misunderstood
-If moral perfection can legitimately follow from necessity
-Why radical doubt is a method, not a lifestyle
-Where the real fault line lies between Thomist and Cartesian epistemology
The conclusion is deliberately careful: Cartesian doubt does not entail solipsism—but it risks it unless its theistic rescue succeeds. The road out is narrow, but it is not imaginary.
Find our videocast here: https://youtu.be/khbWIDw2VcA
Merch here: https://take-2-podcast.printify.me/
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/reakt-music/deep-stone
License code: 2QZOZ2YHZ5UTE7C8
Find more Take 2 Theology content at http://www.take2theology.com
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So Zach, I you may have heard
about this epic DND night that.
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My goodness, what AI?
Honestly, even if I was cut out
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for the DND lifestyle, I don't
think I could hang with you
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00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:16,120
guys.
I don't think I could do it.
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I was not, I was like, Oh my
goodness, it was a one shot.
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Which means it's like, you know,
our normal thing where I'm DM
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ING it's several different
sessions.
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Into one like a whole.
Well, as I said, what we're
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doing is several different.
It's called a campaign.
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So it's like you're, you're, you
know, it's this epic journey and
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you're not trying to get it all
done in one night.
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Like how could you?
Yeah, how could you?
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But this was trying to sandwich
them.
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All, I mean, right.
And it was already, we already
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did one like 1/3 of it before we
left for Christmas.
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And we're like, we couldn't get
done.
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And so we're like, well, we'll
just pick it up and finish up
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another night.
And so we kind of had the
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mindset of we're just gonna get
through this and buckle up, man.
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But before I left for that, I
had exercised that day.
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I was doing stuff around the
house, stuff was going on.
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I go up to like take my shower.
Right before I go I turn the
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water on and hold my hand out in
like 3 minutes and the water is
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not.
Getting cold?
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Oh man.
And.
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I'm starting to get a little
frustrated.
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I'm like, what is going on?
Like what have like, did you
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know?
Yeah, what could possibly be
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Like normally you get a little
bit of temperature raise even if
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you're down.
Yeah.
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And I go down like, what's going
on?
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And Jill's like, well, I just
started a load of towels.
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Like would we put it on hot?
She's like, yeah, but I always
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wash towels on hot.
And so, so I just suffer through
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the cold shower.
And it reminded me, literally,
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it reminded me that I was like
trying to get through.
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So I head off to, 'cause I was,
I investigated the, the washer
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and tried to like change the
temp.
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What we realized was that that
washer was just stuck open,
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draining the hot.
Water just.
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Draining it.
And so Jill calls me.
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She's like, I don't know, did
you do something?
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I was like, well, it was just
like running, running when I was
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there.
I tried to stop it and I did
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stop it.
So I was like, well, unplug it.
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The water still kept going.
I was like, well, turn those
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valves off.
So Long story short, I got in
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that night.
I got it to spin the towels dry
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or you know, and then I put
those in the dryer.
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It's like I it was late night.
I'll try to just let it rest.
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Look at it the next day, next
day.
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The now the valves won't open.
So we got a it's under extended
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warranty.
That's.
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Good, good.
Call.
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So you're still hot waterless.
Oh, no, no, Oh no.
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This was the.
Past this is the hot water was
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fine it was just getting drained
by the washer going forever.
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So that's the washer that's
that's not working toes washer.
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So it was under extended
warranty set it up when Sunday
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like we the first available
appointment is Wednesday.
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I'm like OK yeah we can probably
go that long without washing
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clothes but then the next
available appointment was next
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Wednesday.
Oh.
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Man.
The 14th So I get a confirmation
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tonight and I happened to just
send Adm to Lowe's like it
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doesn't make sense to me in this
area.
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Why there's no?
There'd be that few.
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Appointments.
Yeah, it's weird.
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And she's like, we're, you know,
we're sorry, I'll send this over
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to the and she's like, but did
you get it set up on it?
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I did get it set up.
I just got in there and she's
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like in your, from what you told
me, it's the 7th.
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And I'm glad she said that
number because I hadn't really
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paid attention 'cause it said
Wednesday and it was the 14th is
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when they and I was like, no, we
cannot do that.
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So Lowe's, I'm not happy with
you.
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It's kind of a.
And they were like, we're just
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booked like they don't hire
enough people.
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No, I had to like call in and
finally it was a phone tree of
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phone trees like my third.
Call so I.
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Finally got a person and they
reset it up so now it's going to
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be Thursday with a different
repair shop but.
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And and tying D&D into it.
You probably like have a changed
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clothes three times because it
went so long.
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Yeah, for the audience.
What time did you wrap it up?
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Should we say this out loud?
You don't have to be want to.
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Yeah.
Well, we, we had said it at
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5:30.
It's when we started and we
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talked.
We were, we have a group.
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So we were talking 5:30.
We all said the words 530.
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Sorry about this Jonathan.
I made the event while I was in
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Arkansas, like I made.
Central Time.
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And it captured the fact that I
was in central time, so they all
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saw it at 6:30.
So most of us, just like, I
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didn't even realize it was that
there was a discrepancy till we
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got back here.
And someone was like, all right,
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what time's everyone showing up?
You know, 'cause you got to some
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people show up early to kind of
get things set up and.
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You got to settle in.
And John was like, I'm going to
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be there at 6:00.
I was like, why is he going to
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be there 30 minutes late?
And I was like, Oh well, I
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thought we're going to go at
5:30 and he's and Alex is like
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530.
And, and so I thought what we
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said and I went and looked at
the and I thought, oh, it says
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630.
So I went and changed it real
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quick.
But so anyways, so we probably
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didn't start.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Because there's some other
confusion till like 636. 40
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wrapped up at like 8:00 or 9:00
reasonable time. 8:00 Yeah,
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yeah, yeah.
Well, at 12, we're like we're,
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we're wrapping up.
Yeah, yeah.
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And so you stopped right then.
At 1:00, we're wrapping.
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Up.
Uh oh.
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I start like and then the brakes
when I'm not doing anything, I
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like start cleaning up, like
getting trash, 'cause I like I
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want us to go out at 2:00, we're
finishing up.
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Still going?
Did you finish?
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We finished it.
We did finish it.
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What time 330I think is when we
left it was, it was crazy.
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I didn't get home till like four
and then I and you would think
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you would just get into your bed
and just, you would think
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immediately fall asleep and it's
like you can't.
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I was like, you know, so it was
probably I didn't fall asleep
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till 4:30.
What Saturday?
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I can't remember the last time I
stayed up to 330.
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It's been a minute.
New Year's.
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I stayed up past midnight, but
that's to me.
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I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a
early to bed kind of guy at this
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point in my life.
But yeah, you know, D&D people
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need to know.
It's not for the faint of heart.
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You gotta like, you gotta like,
be ready.
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Yeah, you, you have to
physically be kind of there just
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like you expect your character
to be there, you know what I'm
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saying?
It's it's it's you have to have
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that stamina, that constitution
saving role here.
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You.
Go people die in D&D, Characters
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die.
Yeah.
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And in fact, we ended with the
we, we just made-up some
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characters for this one shot.
But my character basically died
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except for that I remembered in
in the the big bad guy that we
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were fighting.
It was close to dying.
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And I was like, I was almost
like, yeah, I'm dead.
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I can't really contribute more.
But then I remembered that we
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didn't calculate one thing that
my character would do to the big
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bad guy.
And that was enough that the DM
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was like, yeah, that's close
enough that that takes him out
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and we'll call it, we'll call
him.
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Well, I say that because as we
try to segue into Joshua, the
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way I love this book, the way
that this guy Dale Route Davis
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frames Joshua is he wants us to
look at the four funerals that
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Joshua talks about.
One in chapter 1, three in
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chapter.
I think 24th, the very end has
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like these bookends that Joshua
that tell us something about how
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we should read the book.
So let's talk funerals, let's
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talk Joshua.
Let's take it to the next level.
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Let's fire up that twanga music.
From the hearts of the Low
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Country in South Carolina.
It's the Take Two podcast where
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we take theology to the next
level.
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Funerals.
Yeah, there's a Psalm or Proverb
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that talks about better to be at
a funeral.
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So I guess so.
It's good that we're studying
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Joshua if it's four funerals.
John, John Piper takes this very
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literally where he's like, yeah,
I don't.
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I guess it's easier if you were
pastoring like a large church.
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Yeah, such as Bethlehem.
But he was like, I, I try to
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make it a practice to attend
like one funeral a month, one
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wedding a month.
I don't want to see both sides
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of the sadness and the happiness
and just keep balanced.
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Yeah, I hate funerals.
I know I hate them.
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I know I hate them.
This is like, either they're in
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heaven and there's nothing you
can do, or they're in hell and
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there's nothing and there's
nothing you can do.
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It's like man.
Yeah.
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Well, if you're getting into
Joshua, I think where my mind
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goes initially is be strong and
of good courage.
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This is Joshua one that's like
what sticks in my mind.
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Very important.
But we're going to talk a little
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bit about the four funerals.
One of the getting 3 at the end.
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Do you want to guess who some of
these characters are that that
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die that's mentioned as die?
So these are like, not
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figurative funerals, these are
literal.
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And funerals might be.
It's not like there's a service
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Moses.
Moses is a chapter 1, then
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there's three at the end.
Aiken.
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These are these are good
guesses, not Aiken.
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00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,320
OK, Caleb.
Oh, that's a good guess.
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Not Caleb.
It is one.
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What is the title of the book?
Oh, Joshua, Joshua.
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00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,960
And then if you think Moses and
Aaron, a lot of times it's like
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00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,640
Joshua and Eleazar.
It's kind of like the right hand
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00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,440
kind of kind of man the the
priestly arm of everything.
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00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,680
And then the other one probably
not expected is Joseph.
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00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:20,760
They took his bones and buried
them, right.
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00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,920
So you have and you got to think
like, OK, why is the author like
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00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,880
throwing in Joseph here?
Why are we starting off with
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00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,040
Moses?
Good things to think about.
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00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:29,800
Obviously you can think about
Moses and.
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00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,800
'Cause they took Jacob's bones
immediately up and buried them.
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00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,760
That must have.
Just they just kept Joseph
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00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:37,400
Bones.
Yeah.
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00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:40,600
Exactly right.
What do you call this things?
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00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,960
It's like Austria, Austria.
And you know how big these
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00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,280
things ought to be, do you know?
I don't think they had to be.
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00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:48,760
That big They did not.
There was.
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00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:54,160
There's had to be because at
least they, I think they shot
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00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:55,960
for like the size of the femur
'cause that's like the longest
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00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:56,920
build.
So like if you think about how
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00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:58,800
long a finger, that's like, you
know, if you're thinking of
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00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,080
'cause they could fit multiple
these in tombs and that's how
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00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:02,360
families could be in tombs or
whatever.
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00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,280
I think you can correct me if
this is wrong, but you would
212
00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,160
like be buried for a year or
something or go back in like
213
00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:08,440
they would be a process.
Right, right.
214
00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,840
I think they would, you know,
put spices and wrap you and then
215
00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,560
basically like leave it sealed
up for a year.
216
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,280
And basically they're allowing
all the soft tissue to decay
217
00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,400
away and then they come in and
they collect the bones and put
218
00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,000
them in the ossuary.
And then you might have so in
219
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,360
one, you'd have more than one.
One thing you know, you should
220
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,160
talk about the femur being the
longest bone.
221
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,320
Quick aside, that actually came
up in an airplane.
222
00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,080
Did it ride one time?
Because this lady like was
223
00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,840
leaning back in front of me and
it was all those things like she
224
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,240
was literally hitting it and I
was, and she was like, and I,
225
00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,560
you know, I'm such a nice person
in these situations.
226
00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:46,640
But I said something like,
Ma'am, your chair is not going
227
00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,760
to go back any further because I
have a 36 inch femur.
228
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:50,880
I don't know.
I was just guessing.
229
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:52,280
It's around 3 feet.
That's funny.
230
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,720
That's probably not 3 feet, but.
Yeah, that's something like you
231
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,640
think I'm like pants, pants in
seam, 36 inches, you know?
232
00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:00,440
Yeah, that's your femur.
So maybe 18 inch, I don't know,
233
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,320
but you know, a big femur was
like it's not going back any
234
00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:04,560
further.
So like.
235
00:11:05,560 --> 00:11:07,320
Nothing's going to happen here,
that's always.
236
00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,880
I don't know if you have strong
opinions on this cremation
237
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,280
buried debate.
You know, some people are like,
238
00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,080
man, I got to be buried no
matter what.
239
00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,400
And I was like, well, you know,
even, you know, it's like, well,
240
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,080
bones or it's things will
happen.
241
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:26,360
But going back to chapter 1,
Moses passes off the scene.
242
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,960
It's talked about, I don't know,
maybe maybe turn to Joshua one,
243
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,280
maybe you can read some of these
as we go.
244
00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:36,200
But in a lot of ways, this
chapter 1 is really framing
245
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,840
Joshua as the new Moses, giving
some credence.
246
00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,400
And Moses was such a great
figure in Israel's history.
247
00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,760
It's like, how could someone
even measure up?
248
00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,200
So I don't know if it's like the
first 9 or 10 verses you want to
249
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:48,200
read.
I don't know, kind of like.
250
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:49,360
Sure.
You want me to just read and you
251
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,360
can hold your hand up?
Yeah.
252
00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,280
But yeah, I have my first.
Section of people, Yeah, yeah.
253
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,920
Is through 9.
Let's do that, says now.
254
00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,560
It came about after the death of
Moses the servant of the Lord,
255
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,600
that the Lord spoke to Joshua
the son of Nun, Moses's servant,
256
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,480
saying, Moses, my servant is
dead.
257
00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,960
Now therefore arise cross this
Jordan, you and all this people,
258
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,360
to the land which I am giving to
them, the sons of Israel.
259
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,800
Every place on which the sole of
your foot treads, I have given
260
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,760
it to you, just as I spoke to
Moses from the wilderness.
261
00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,920
And this Lebanon, even as far as
the great river, the river
262
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,600
Euphrates, all the land of the
Hittites, and as far as the
263
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,680
great sea toward the setting of
the sun, will be your territory.
264
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,200
No man will be able to stand
before you all the days of your
265
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,760
life, Just as I have been with
Moses, I will be with you.
266
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,720
I will not fail you or forsake
you.
267
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,880
Be strong and courageous, for
you shall give this people
268
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,920
possession of the land which I
swore to their fathers to give
269
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,440
them.
Only be strong and very
270
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,040
courageous.
Be careful to do according to
271
00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,360
all the law which my which Moses
my servant commanded you.
272
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,240
Do not turn from it to the right
or to the left, so that you may
273
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,840
have success wherever you go.
This book of the Law shall not
274
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,640
depart from your mouth, but you
shall meditate on it day and
275
00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,320
night, so that you may be
careful to do according to all
276
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,000
that is written in it.
For then you will make your way
277
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,600
prosperous, and then you will
have success.
278
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,080
Have I not commanded you?
Be strong and courageous.
279
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,560
Do not tremble or be dismayed,
for the Lord your God is with
280
00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:31,520
you wherever you go.
Nice.
281
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,880
Probably a lot of familiar
verses in there.
282
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,560
A lot of repetition on like be
strong and courageous, a lot of
283
00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,800
repetition.
I don't know if you and there'll
284
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,840
be more of this as the chapter
progresses, but in chapter 1,
285
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,480
Moses mentioned like 11 times,
like there's a lot of talk of
286
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:46,840
Moses, right?
And so there's like this
287
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,520
intentional passing of the
guard, you know, a lot building
288
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,760
up Joshua that, you know, when
you say something just like
289
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,560
Moses said it, there's, there's
a lot of, a lot of that.
290
00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:00,120
And when you look in chapter 1,
there's really it, it's
291
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:01,800
interesting.
There's not a lot of narrative.
292
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:03,880
There's speeches are coming
towards.
293
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:09,680
So that was like speech #1 and
then there's speech #2 speech #1
294
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:14,040
you know, is really God talking
and speech #2 Joshua is kind of
295
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,400
relaying some stuff.
So you kind of see what's going
296
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:18,960
on.
And as you read chapter 1 there,
297
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,920
there's really 2 emphases, talks
a lot about this land.
298
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:24,960
That's a gift.
God has given you this land.
299
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,120
But then #2 is it's not, it's
not, it's not just going to like
300
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:30,800
up here, you got to go and take
the land.
301
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:35,480
There's a command, God is doing
this, but there's a means you
302
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,400
got to do this.
And at the center of it, we, we
303
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,080
alluded to this last time, man
centered versus God centered.
304
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:48,520
We see a lot pointing at God is
at the center, Yahweh is at the
305
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,920
center.
And when you think of, you know,
306
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,160
land promise, this is not like
the first time anyone's reading
307
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,000
about promised land in
Scripture.
308
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,480
What?
There's land that's been
309
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,280
promised.
Right, this goes back like super
310
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,600
far.
Genesis 1518, Deuteronomy 17
311
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,840
also echo what you just read
this lands pretty best the
312
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:10,440
eastern borders, the Euphrates
river.
313
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,680
Like look that up on a map.
If you don't notice that's like
314
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,640
it's not what you think of.
What do you think of Israel,
315
00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:16,440
Right, that's an expanded.
Border.
316
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,560
Yeah, it's over into Iraq.
Yeah, so it's like worth a look,
317
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,040
'cause you're like, that's
actually that's a lot.
318
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,440
And that's mentioned four or
five different times in
319
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:24,040
Scripture.
Like that.
320
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,000
Specifically, though, Moses was
great.
321
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,960
It'd be, you know, prior to most
people's perspective.
322
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:32,920
No one's going to measure up and
fill his shoes.
323
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:38,520
Yahweh's promise really spans
much farther than just Moses,
324
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:40,240
like goes back to like that
whole time.
325
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,840
Yahweh, he's the God of Abraham,
Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua.
326
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,600
And what's interesting is
Joshua, Moses is off the scene.
327
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,720
It talks about, you know, Moses
has passed.
328
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,040
There's not a lot of weeping and
wailing and wanting.
329
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:58,320
It's more like, go do it.
There's action cross the Jordan.
330
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,880
It's like just Yahweh promised
this, it's gonna happen.
331
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,720
It's not like let's cry about
it.
332
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,520
And what's it?
Read verse 5 for us again.
333
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,040
Says no man will be able to
stand before you all the days of
334
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,400
your life.
Just as I've been with Moses, I
335
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,480
will be with you.
I will not fail you or forsake
336
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:17,640
you.
Great.
337
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:22,560
If you compare that to Exodus 3,
you see, you see maybe some
338
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:23,800
echoes of it and this kind of
goes you.
339
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,000
Want to read Exodus?
Three, yeah, Exodus 3 verse 12,
340
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,920
not exact same, but it's kind of
this time where Moses is maybe
341
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,840
not wanting to speak about
everything and God's kind of
342
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,000
like, I'll be with you.
It's kind of almost of the same
343
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,920
verbiage.
And he said, certainly I will be
344
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,160
with you, and this shall be the
sign to you.
345
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,240
That is I who have sent you.
When you have brought the people
346
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,600
out of Egypt, you shall worship
God at this mountain.
347
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,040
Emphasizing I will be with you
is kind of the thing.
348
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,400
Verse 679, we've got this theme
of strong and courageous that we
349
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,360
probably memorized as kids.
Not because you know, Joshua is
350
00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:59,920
great.
Joshua is even as good as Moses
351
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:03,760
because Yahweh is with him.
One more passage to read.
352
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:07,720
Maybe if you want to flip to
Hebrews 13, we'll look at 5:00
353
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,599
and 6:00 and we'll kind of see
maybe some of this New Testament
354
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,720
connection or application.
It says be sure that your
355
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,119
character is free from the love
of money.
356
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:18,000
Is that right?
Yeah.
357
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:19,800
Yeah, this is good.
So interesting how this will
358
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:21,760
because he quotes I think Joshua
here.
359
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,480
Being content with what you
have.
360
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:28,760
For He himself has said, I will
never desert you, nor will I
361
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,840
ever forsake you, so that we can
confidently say the Lord is my
362
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,600
helper.
I will not be afraid.
363
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,160
What will man do to me?
Isn't it so interesting?
364
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,960
Some of this quote from Joshua
is applied to the love of money.
365
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,560
Isn't that like weird?
Like it's not what you would
366
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,600
expect, but it's how the author
of Hebrews takes this phrase
367
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,840
like be strong and courageous,
God's with you, right?
368
00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:50,320
Don't load money like that's
pretty crazy.
369
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:50,760
You know what?
I.
370
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,640
Mean yeah, like.
I never thought about that.
371
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,160
These material possessions, you
don't have to have them.
372
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,800
Don't have to have them and and
because God's with you.
373
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,640
So kind of continuing on this
train of thought, Yahweh is with
374
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:09,320
Joshua, but his presence is
integrally connected to the
375
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,040
Torah, Yahweh's word.
Those things are not separates.
376
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,480
He's with you, but you need to
be careful to do all that the
377
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,320
Torah, all that you've been
instructed, which Moses
378
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,040
commanded.
It's not like Joshua.
379
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:22,440
We read this like secret
feeling.
380
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,160
It's like no, no, no, it's none
of that.
381
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,320
It's like same thing in Psalm
one.
382
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,960
It's like, OK, there are clear
instructions, you do this, good
383
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:31,800
things will happen.
And yes, God did talk to Joshua
384
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,160
in a special way too, but it's
not like he had all this Torah
385
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,720
to meditate on day and night.
Lack of this study really would
386
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:46,080
result in a lack of obedience.
And then what we probably won't
387
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,360
read forsake of time is the
second part of this chapter.
388
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:50,640
How how many verses are in
chapter 1 is like 18 or
389
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,240
something maybe?
Yeah, 18.
390
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,240
So half of this chapter is
really Joshua's that this
391
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,360
building of a Joshua.
The second-half of the chapter,
392
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,320
what's interesting is a lot of
it is given to the unity of
393
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,600
Israel.
Presumably this would be
394
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,800
important.
A big leader passes off this
395
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,040
scene.
We see a lot of unification,
396
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:12,960
especially in light.
I think there's reference a
397
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,760
little bit to numbers 32 and we
all know what number 32 is
398
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,200
about.
We all know that like on top of
399
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,760
it, Cliff notes, it's 'cause
this is an illusion back and #32
400
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,600
talks about the 2 or 2 1/2
tribes Gad, Manasseh and Reuben
401
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,480
that were like, hey Moses, we
don't need to cross with Jordan.
402
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,880
Can we take this land?
And Moses response was like, you
403
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:35,480
guys are the worst.
You just don't want to fight.
404
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:36,920
You don't want to drive out
these people.
405
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,480
You can't do that.
They're like, OK, what if we
406
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:40,760
promise we'll go across and
fight?
407
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,600
We'll leave our families here
before we come back and occupy
408
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,400
the land.
And Moses, like I will hold you
409
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,640
to it because if you don't, you
know what this looks like to me,
410
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,760
He says.
This is the same.
411
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:56,080
Oh, I'm trying to think of the
phrase he used if I can find it.
412
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,040
In.
It's he says, yeah, he says this
413
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,040
yeah, Brutus simple men.
He says this is just like Kadash
414
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:06,200
Barnea Part 2, which is when the
spies were like, we can't cross
415
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,240
into the Jordan and they had to
wonder in the wilderness for
416
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:09,600
years.
She's like, we're not doing this
417
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:10,640
again.
We're not going to wonder in the
418
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,520
wilderness for 40 more years.
But you're doing the same exact
419
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,080
thing by not wanting to cross.
Into the promised land and so
420
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,280
this kind of like comes back to
the front and Joshua one they
421
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,440
kind of like rehash this out
like you're going to cross and
422
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,040
everyone agrees.
It's like this is like it's
423
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,080
interesting.
Why so much Texas spin on that?
424
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,920
But it's because this was like
hashed out before.
425
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,880
It's a new leadership and
everyone kind of gets on board
426
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,480
these tribes that Yep, we're
unified.
427
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,040
We'll do this that that's really
one of the the themes You look
428
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:40,760
at Joshua and you see this
phrase.
429
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,440
All of Israel happens multiple
times in chapters 3 and 4, seven
430
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,880
and eight, Chapter 101623 and 24
where all of Israel together
431
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,000
under Joshua's important, you'll
get judges.
432
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,280
It's really more factions with
this person and this part of the
433
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,000
it's not, it's not all of Israel
together and that's a problem.
434
00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,680
Judges is a mess.
Judges is a mess, to say the
435
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,040
least.
That's funeral number one.
436
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,880
We'll skip to the back of the
book, chapter 24 if you want to
437
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:11,160
read verses 29 through 33, and
we'll hit just short 4 verses,
438
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,320
these final three funerals, so
to speak.
439
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,200
It came about after these things
that Joshua the son of Nun, the
440
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:26,560
servant of the Lord, died, being
110 years old, and they buried
441
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:31,160
him in the territory of his
inheritance in Timnath Sarah,
442
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,440
which is in the Hill Country of
Ephraim on the north of Mount
443
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,920
Gaash.
Israel served the Lord all the
444
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,280
days of Joshua and all the days
of the elders who survived
445
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,760
Joshua and had known all the
deeds of the Lord which he had
446
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,760
done for Israel.
Now they buried the bones of
447
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,840
Joseph, which the sons of Israel
brought up from Egypt at
448
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,440
Shechem, in the at the in the
piece of ground where Jacob had
449
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:02,600
bought from the sons of Hamor
the father of Shechem, for 100
450
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,240
pieces of money.
And they became the inheritance
451
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,600
of Joseph's sons.
And Eliezar the son of Aaron,
452
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:15,120
died, and they buried him at
Gibeah of Phineas his son, which
453
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:17,880
was given him in the Hill
Country of Ephraim.
454
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,000
Then, then it's over.
That's Joshua.
455
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,240
That's the end of Joshua.
I'm not much of an author.
456
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,440
If I was, I feel like that's
kind of like a dry wet.
457
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,920
It's like, you know it just like
boom.
458
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,560
People died, they got buried.
Yeah, book's over.
459
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,760
And you're like, that's weird.
Most of the time, you know, you
460
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,720
read genealogies or these things
there.
461
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,240
A lot of times there is this
theological significance.
462
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,600
You have to ask yourself, OK, we
started with the death of Moses.
463
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:45,680
We ended with the death of
Joshua, Eleazar and Joseph.
464
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,920
Is that like random or is there
significance behind it?
465
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,840
And I think we find several
different emphases, like what?
466
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,120
What is, what is the author
trying to impress on us as we
467
00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:02,440
read this book #1 going back to
this being God centered,
468
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,160
Yahweh's promises are good and
true.
469
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,320
And so that's why we talk about
Moses.
470
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,880
Great Prophet Joshua's going to
be on the same plane as Moses.
471
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:17,600
Joshua dies, Eleazar dies.
The bones of Joseph are buried.
472
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,360
These are one real physical
people and real physical
473
00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:22,680
locations that these are like
definite places probably trying
474
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,480
to drive that home.
More importantly, this is the
475
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,720
land that was, you know, Joseph
was looking forward to.
476
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,480
You know, we probably learned
all these things like, man, I'm
477
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,080
in Egypt.
Their gravestones, in a way,
478
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,240
testify to Yahweh's
faithfulness.
479
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,480
And when you go all the way back
to Joseph, you're really linking
480
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,720
Genesis.
When you're talking about Moses,
481
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,320
you're linking really all the
Pentateuch, Exodus, and onward,
482
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,040
the book of Joshua's linking
Joshua.
483
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,840
You're linking 500 to 600 years
of Yahweh's faithfulness.
484
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,920
People come and go, but this
promise is being seen through
485
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,760
these generations.
Probably a big point we're
486
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:07,600
trying to understand #2 we see
the people's response is there.
487
00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:11,280
What's verse 31 talks about
Israeli response.
488
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:12,720
Oh yeah.
And there's maybe a little bit
489
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,080
we can read into the text.
Here, yes, as Israel served the
490
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,480
Lord all the days of Joshua and
all the days of the elders who
491
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,240
served Joshua and had known all
the deeds of the Lord which he
492
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,560
had done for Israel.
I said this word, I shouldn't
493
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,360
have said we should read into
the text 'cause you shouldn't
494
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,840
read in the text.
But when you read that, there is
495
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,040
like a positive and a negative
kind of aspect subtly.
496
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,120
The negative it's implied that
they served while Joshua and the
497
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:42,040
kind of his close leadership
were alive, but when that, you
498
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,400
know, group of folks died.
Seems past tense.
499
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,360
Yeah, it fell off.
And so if you're if you're maybe
500
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,600
in Israel, maybe the time of the
judges, you're reading this,
501
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,640
you're saying, OK, Moses and
Aaron Penteuch served Yahweh,
502
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,280
Eleazar and Joshua linked
together served Yahweh.
503
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,120
There's like a new generation.
How are the people all of how is
504
00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:04,280
Israel responding?
And you look around and probably
505
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:09,000
like man not responding well,
which which leads probably to
506
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,280
the third emphasis is that
Yahweh's victory, a lot of
507
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,360
victory has been accomplished in
Joshua by the time we get to the
508
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:19,280
end, but not not complete.
Just like in Genesis, Joseph
509
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,760
dies, a lot of good things have
happened.
510
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,120
Israel has been like saved all
the brothers kind of reunited.
511
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:29,160
The nation doesn't starve from
famine, but kind of ends and
512
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,480
things aren't totally resolved.
Deuteronomy, when Moses dies,
513
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:32,920
you read very similar things
like.
514
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,480
So this kind of predicts you
guys aren't going to do well,
515
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,560
like things are going to go bad.
I'm calling.
516
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,200
This.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
517
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,520
Is that Deuteronomy 31 where
he's like, kind?
518
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:42,760
Of calm him out and it's like
not good.
519
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,360
And then Joshua kind of the same
thing.
520
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:46,800
Is that a coincidence?
It's kind of like these these
521
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,800
are repeated.
We should take something away
522
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,960
from that in the same way we in
a similar way to Israel, we look
523
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,200
lot's been victorious and
accomplished, but they're still
524
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,840
like it's still incomplete where
there is like, oh man, we we
525
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,680
long and look forward to that
day.
526
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,080
And I think the author is
probably wrapping all this up in
527
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:06,920
there through those different
funerals.
528
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:10,720
No, I, I think that's really
good and it's, we talked about
529
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,680
there was another book, I don't
think it was Joshua, Joshua, but
530
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,520
we kind of talked about the,
it's just the emphasis of the
531
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,880
already, but not yet.
Ezra, Nehemiah.
532
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,240
Kind of Ezra, Nehemiah.
It's like we were like, you
533
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,880
think, all right, we finally
learned our lesson.
534
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,000
Nope.
And.
535
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,920
It is crazy, all of the stories
and they're all like similar,
536
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,720
but they're different.
It's like, it's like, I think
537
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,360
about this a lot.
Like I do not like reading
538
00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:38,240
fiction books and like an author
like will say something and
539
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,120
bring it back up at the end.
And there's these through lines.
540
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,320
I really love seeing that in
scripture because I'm like, oh,
541
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,520
any author could write it, but
it is, it is pretty like
542
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,360
masterful in scripture and see
how it represents the human
543
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:53,120
condition so well, how it is
like totally relatable, but
544
00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:56,400
totally miraculous And and just
you see these cycles, but
545
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:57,640
they're different, but they're
the same.
546
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,880
It's like pretty amazing.
So anyway, good way.
547
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,320
I think last episode, really big
picture overview kind of
548
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,000
narrowing down a little bit
chapter 1 and in chapter 24 kind
549
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,240
of narrowing that lens a little
bit.
550
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:17,040
Next episode would like to look
more about preparing to to take
551
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:21,040
though, like maybe a teaser
question is like we read through
552
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,160
chapter one.
It looks like they're about to
553
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,120
take the land.
Like it's like, hey, get ready,
554
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:26,480
prepare yourselves.
It's gonna go.
555
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:31,920
We read in chapter 3, we cross
the Jordan chapter 2.
556
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,480
It's kind of weird, like you can
almost take chapter 2 out and
557
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,240
one to three would make sense.
Also another like literary
558
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,320
thing, like why is that in
there?
559
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,960
That's kind of weird, right?
Like, but it's this famous Rahab
560
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,160
story that really probably
should be few chapters later
561
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,640
with Jericho, but it's like not
pigeon holed here.
562
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,440
It's there on purpose and it
happens probably, but it's like
563
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,200
it stands out.
And I think that's a good when
564
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,880
you see something that stands
out, you're like, why is it put
565
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,240
here?
What are we supposed to take
566
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,000
away from other than that
historical account?
567
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,920
So anyway, anything else you
want to add about people dying
568
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,520
in Joshua?
Well, not about people dying in
569
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,720
Joshua, but I do wonder, did any
other bones other than Joseph's
570
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,040
get brought out a land of
Goshen?
571
00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:19,040
Clearly not everyone's bones and
it's just logistically
572
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:19,840
impossible.
But.
573
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,920
Would anyone that be like, hey,
just like Joseph man, don't let
574
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:24,760
me stay here.
I don't.
575
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,160
Know because it's it was it's
crazy you read this and like
576
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,560
Jacob's like adamant.
Do you know these people are
577
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:34,360
like, when I die, I cannot die
here, You know, it's like a very
578
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:36,680
big deal.
And maybe some of that leans
579
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,000
into this play thrower
nepheline, like the cosmic
580
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,480
geography and stuff too, you
know what I mean?
581
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,720
So there's a lot of stuff at
play.
582
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,000
I'm excited as we kind of
continue in on this Joshua
583
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,600
study.
That's what I got.
584
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,960
That's our take.
Thanks for listening to Take
585
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,200
Two.
Find us wherever you find
586
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,720
podcasts and on YouTube for
those who want to watch our
587
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:01,360
video cast.