Michael Heiser Revisited

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Well, well, I I do want to say
off the top and I appreciate

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you, Clay for being on time.
Yes, Michael on the other hand,

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not sure I can say the same.
All I can say is it's a nice

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fall day and not yet.
And I had a pumpkin spice latte

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at Starbucks.
Was meeting with.

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Too soon, Too soon, Yeah.
So that's I mean.

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Thank you, Clay.
Yes.

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It was good because you know,
that's that's the thing you kind

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of drink right is.
When when it's when it's fall.

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And how far away are we?
From Oh, we're close, though,

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you know, I'll let it slide, but
I like where your head's at

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because you're in the realm of
taste testing.

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I know.
Drinks, I know.

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And we, we've got the master
with us.

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I guess we should introduce the
guest of honor.

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Hello.
There we go.

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Hello everybody.
My name is Clay.

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Clay, you, you know.
Just clay.

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Here's Here's something I said
in earnest the other night.

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I like watching pottery videos
because, because why not, you

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know what I'm saying?
And I was like.

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I don't agree.
I want to learn how to do

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Potter.
I want to learn how to throw

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clay someday.
And I was like, be a clay

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thrower.
And then I was me.

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And I was saying this to Chloe
and we were both like.

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Now that is clay.
Thrower.

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You know, so if you look that up
on it, the first Google search

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is the is the shotgun clay
throwers that like people shoot

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at.
That's OK.

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That's like the first search.
That's amazing.

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And if you're watching video,
you'll notice, well, you'll

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notice Clay's our 2nd guest
we've ever had.

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Yeah.
And also has a mustache like

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Pastor Joel.
So if you if you want to be on

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the show, grab a nice mustache
and maybe you'll make it on.

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I try.
I try.

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Well, tell us about what you
got.

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For taste testing, so it's a
good segue.

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So I'm an unofficial energy
drink connoisseur.

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OK, connoisseur aficionado.
Sauvignet maybe?

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Wow.
I don't know any of these words.

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You know, and so I brought two
of my favorite.

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OK.
And so should we go with the

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clear one or the amber one
first?

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The Amber 1 was my number one
for the longest time and and to

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give some background I have had
over 700 different.

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Flavors.
Oh my goodness.

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Do you do these along with the
Oreo cookies?

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I did have the the coke flavored
Oreos the other day and.

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Those were next, I will say
after this podcast, if you want

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to hang around, there will be an
intervention for 1st place

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addictions.
But I'm excited to try this bad.

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So.
Amber.

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This is Amber.
Amber should have number one on

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the bottom.
Yep, number one on the bottom.

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Oh, it tastes like something
very familiar.

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A candy.
Where's your head at?

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What?
Is it vanilla?

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No.
No, get it.

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Get out of here.
It's like a Jolly rancher.

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It's like a an sour patch your.
Clothes.

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Your clothes.
Not quite as sour though.

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Think.
Think more sweet.

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Oh man.
Almost like watermelon flavored.

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Oh, it's like.
Blue Raspberry flavored?

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Is it Raspberry?
Strawberry.

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It's a Berry.
Berry Family.

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I think, I think, I think you're
guessing that maybe it's as as

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far as we can take it.
Yeah, I'll give you one more

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sip.
Yeah, and I and I, I have to be

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very careful with my sips, so.
Yeah, Excuses, Michael.

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It's it is 5 calories.
Oh, it's.

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Yeah.
There's no.

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Sugar in that and how much
caffeine though?

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No, energy drinks don't really
have.

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A lot like 2.
It's only like 2 cups of coffee.

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Yeah.
Yeah, Michael's concerned about

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he has Afib or whatever.
I've gone afib twice, I don't

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want to do it a third time but.
OK, well your watch should let

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us know well if if something
happens.

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Well, I I don't know, it's a
familiar.

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Campaign.
It's a very yeah.

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It is.
It is Swedish Fish.

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Oh, OK.
I can see that.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ghost.

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It's Ghost is the energy drink
company.

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It's one of my favorite.
Yeah.

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This also smells familiar.
This one has some similarities,

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but it's on the other end of the
spectrum anyway.

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This is another candy we're
supposed to be guessing like a

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specific.
It's more subtle.

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It's not this.
Is a this isn't like a branded

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candy No, no, this is a unique
one, but I feel like that you'll

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it's.
Not it's not a branded candy

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because I get some citrus notes
in it.

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Maybe some pineapple?
Yeah, pineapple flavour.

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Man, I can't place it.
It's like a pina colada.

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Guess it's close.
Pineapple, coconuts, Peanut.

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I I don't know.
I don't know.

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I'm I'm I'm out.
I.

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Guess this is this is Rain's
white gummy bear.

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Oh, oh, specifically a white
gummy.

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White gummy bear.
I'll I'll tell you what the

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sweetest fish one.
I like this better than actual

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sweetest fish, I think.
I don't really like sweetest

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fish, but I like this flavor.
I I'm the same way.

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I don't like the candy, but I
like the drink.

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That's good, and hopefully I've
had just enough that I'll talk

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faster and I'll match Zach's
speed.

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Out of control?
Well, this is a good way to

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start and get into clay throw or
what we affectionately call not

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only the energy drink expert,
but the Michael Heiser expert as

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well.
Hold.

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On that's, that's high praise.
I don't know if I'm an expert.

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I've read his book.
Compared to us, you have your

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PhD in Heiser or Heisler.
But Clay, I think you should,

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you should throw it.
Throw it to the camera.

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Take us into our intro.
Sure, sure.

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Let's take it to the next level.
From the hearts of the Low

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Country in South Carolina.
It's the Take Two podcast where

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we take theology to the next
level.

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Well, welcome.
As we kind of introduce, Clay

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knows a lot more about Michael
Heizer than Michael or I.

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We've kind of dipped our toe
into the water and we've got a

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couple of previous episodes.
A lot of my body in the water

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earlier.
Shout out to the cold plunge

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episode.
Really what we talked about was

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this Hebrew word Elohim and how
it it's really a broad category

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that sometimes I think
especially maybe on the

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conservative evangelical side of
things, you kind of pigeonhole

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that to only meaning God, Yahweh
when when really it's broader

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than that.
And then we barely little bit

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touched on the Nephilim.
And I think a question that I

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have a little bit of talking to
Clay has helped me understand

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this more.
But, you know, big picture, why

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does all this matters?
There's all this crazy stuff.

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And I think Clay's got good
perspective, like a good back

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story, like his experience,
things that have kind of been

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unpacked for him a little bit
when he reads the Bible based on

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some of some of these things
Hyzer talks about.

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Yeah, some some story about
Bigfoot that you saw right.

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That's a good segment.
So there there is like a little,

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there's a weird progression of
how I got to Hyzer.

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So it started where I'm a big
fan of John Crist, the comedian.

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So I was listening and watching
his podcast, which is pretty

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hilarious.
And he had he had some guys on

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there from the podcast called
Blurry Creatures.

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And they are like a paranormal
kind of podcast, but they are

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they're both Christian guys and
they approach any of these weird

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topics from a biblical
worldview.

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And so they talked about Bigfoot
as the gateway drug to like the

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paranormal because it's, if you
think about it, it's like.

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The So Bigfoot is marijuana, is
what you're saying?

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All right, if you have knitted.
World, I guess.

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I guess.
Hang in there with us, we're

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bringing this.
Together.

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It'll take a second, but I'll
get there.

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But he, he's something that I
think most people have heard of

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and are kind of OK with.
Like they are kind of OK with it

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being a unknown animal or
something.

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So I was like, OK, I, I kind of
believe that maybe I'll listen

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to this podcast.
So I started the podcast and

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it's it's they call it a journey
podcast because it starts off as

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Bigfoot, but then it spirals
into Heiser and the Nephilim and

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like, and all kinds of really
cool biblical perspectives on

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this like paranormal type stuff.
So they talked about Heiser and

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his Deuteronomy 32 worldview is
what they call it.

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And so I read the book and I
think, like Zach said that the

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Nephilim and the, the biblical
worldview of Heiser with

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Deuteronomy 32 is basically that
there's, it goes back to Genesis

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6 where the, the, the sons of
God looked upon the, the women

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of men and they their offspring
was called the Nephilim are

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these giants.
And this is a thought that if

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I've been developing over I'm
like 180 something episodes deep

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into this podcast now, but that
these, these giants, this, these

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these watchers is what it's
called in other places in the

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book of Enoch.
And there's actually watcher

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references in the Bible.
There's I think there's like one

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verse or two that talk about the
watcher.

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It's like this class of angelic
being, but that that when God,

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when God cursed the garden and
you know, and and said the seed

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of the woman self bruise the
head of the serpent or whatever

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it is.
I'm I'm bad with references.

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I'm apologize right off the top.
Yeah.

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References but, but a lot of
people believe that that was the

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beginning of what they call
potentially the DNA wars where

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it's, it's these fallen angelic
beings in Satan's attempt to

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pollute mankind by intermingling
spiritual with the spiritual

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angelic entities with humankind.
And so I think that that was

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very like, well, I've never
heard this before.

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So after doing more research and
looking into it, I think that

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helps explain a lot of the weird
stuff in the Old Testament.

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Doctor Michael Heizer's famous
for saying if it's weird, it's

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it's worth looking into.
And there's a lot of weird stuff

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in the Old Testament
specifically, and that actually

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ties into the New Testament.
There's some weird stuff in the

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New Testament that ties back to
the the book of Enoch and these

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Nephilim and the watchers and
everything.

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But I think I think why it
matters the, the good question,

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the question that I think it
answers is I think there's a lot

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of people that aren't
necessarily raised in the church

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or just have visited church and
stuff.

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They look at the Old Testament
and they look at the judgement

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part of the Old Testament that
God instructing the Israelites

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to like wipe out this entire
civilization.

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I think that the, the, the
Nephilim, the DNA wars and the

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giants kind of answers that
question of why he would do

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that.
If if you look at it from the

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perspective that it's God trying
to like purify humanity, because

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there's these hybrids that have
come in that are, they were, you

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know, they're giants.
Like Goliath is a prime example

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everybody knows of.
Goliath, No one has trouble

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saying yeah, Goliath.
King Ogg, apparently he was.

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He was drafted in our Arkansas
basketball draft like for 13 or

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14 feet tall by Cordell and so.
That's his.

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I think the dimensions of his
bed is listed in the Bible or

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something.
Well, and Goliath's brothers are

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listed in the Bible.
So and then when they go in the

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caneland, the spies say they're
as tall as Cedars or something

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to that effect.
So I think most Christians are

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OK kind of with the idea of
giants.

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I think that, I think that I
think the the downside of our

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modern day culture, our Western
culture and getting educated and

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scientific is that we like to
downplay the spiritual and the

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supernatural aspect of the
Bible.

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I think that we overanalyze and
we over science, use science to

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explain away things.
I've heard a lot of theologians

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recently talk about, well, you
know, the the average height of

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most Israelites was like 5 feet.
So a giant might only be like 6

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feet tall.
So it's not they try to, they

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try to.
Smooth out.

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Explain it away.
So I'm in Nephilim, is what

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we're saying.
By their.

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By their, Yeah.
Have you done Ancestry DNA test,

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Michael?
We might want to do that.

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I did have maybe like 1% or
maybe less of Neanderthal DNA.

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Yeah, they tracked.
At it.

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Oh yeah, they can.
They can.

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I haven't done right.
I don't want to be in the

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database.
Yeah, you don't.

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Yeah.
I mean, everybody since COVID is

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probably in the database, but
right, I don't want to get your

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podcast.
That's a separate that's a

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separate podcast.
I don't want to get your podcast

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deleted, so we'll move on.
We'll see.

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I like what you're saying, Clay,
because there's a lot of things

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that will take at face value in
Scripture, but then there's a

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lot of things we shy away from.
And I think you're right.

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This whole enlightenment, like
everything is so rational.

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We don't like to engage with
supernatural.

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And I think it would be fair to
say God could wipe out all of

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humanity or parts of humanity
because he's the Creator.

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But I think it does give that
extra level explanation of why

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these people at this time, why
did there have to be a flood

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that took out all these people?
Because that's what falls on the

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heels of this.
I'll just read you know, Genesis

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63 says then the Lord said my
spirit shall not strive with man

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forever because he also has
flesh.

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Nevertheless, his days shall be
120 years.

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Verse 4 the Nephilim were on the
earth in those days and off and

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afterward when the sons of God
came into the daughters of men,

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they bore children to them and
so and it says these were the

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mighty men of old men of renown.
So there is the Bible Scripture

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is telling us that there's some
race here that and we talked to

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them when we, when we had our
last podcast about, you know,

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some of the options that people
have done.

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But some of them really seem to
make sense of all of the

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biblical passages other than
this idea that somehow God has

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allowed demons, some type of,
you know, spiritual being to

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procreate with, with humans,
which, you know, is, is like you

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said, is really goes against all
of our scientific and our

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Western mindset.
But it's probably the best

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explanation we have for those
passages.

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Now that that's correct me if
I'm wrong, Clay, I've, I've

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listened to that unseen round
book.

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I didn't read it so I don't pick
up everything, but my

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understanding is, you know,
Hyzer's trying to provide this

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framework.
We've got all these data points.

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He's like someone who's trying
to connect the dots.

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And so Genesis 3 fall, big deal.
I think that's very highly

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emphasized, as it should.
Genesis 6 is almost like another

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form of the fall and even tower
Babble, another version of the

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fall kind of and, and he he kind
of lays it out where if we view

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it in that way, it's not only is
Christ the second Adam that is

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00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:30,440
successful where he failed in
Genesis 3, but or that we read

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00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,880
in Genesis 2:00 and 3:00, but
that he's also, you know, it's

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like the people that defeat the
Nephilim are like Noah's day,

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00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,920
David, Joshua, that it is like a
picture of Christ conquering at

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00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,000
the spiritual realm too, or, you
know, kind of like seeing a big

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00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,680
picture of.
Scripture, right yeah, yeah I

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think that's a big point of
Michael Heizer's book is he he

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00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:55,560
connects all these dots from the
fall from the Noah's flood why

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that tried to wipe out the
Nephilim to the tower Bible and

295
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,920
how Jesus comes and he fixes all
those points in different ways.

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One of my favorite parts of the
Heizer book, you know, spoiler

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00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:12,360
alert is the is the end when he
he shows how all the all the

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different Israelites that were
spread out when they came back

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00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,400
to Pentecost to to Jerusalem
that that you can look and the

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00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,880
70 nations that are listed in
the Tower of Babel.

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00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,280
They line up or 72.
He says like there's some kind

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of like naming difference or
something.

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But it's like Jesus like calling
all the nations back to him, all

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00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,880
72 that were dispersed in the
tower of Babel, like at the end.

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And that's one of the reasons
like that Paul was trying to get

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to Spain is because Spain was
one of the last nations that

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00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,800
need it, like the gospel, and
it's listed there.

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00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,720
And that's why he like was so
dead set on getting there.

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It kind of explains that a
little bit too.

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Now that that that's really good
can so can you dive deeper into

311
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,000
maybe we could pull it up
Deuteronomy 32, because I know

312
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,360
there's like some translation
issues.

313
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,320
The Dead Sea Scrolls like shed
some light on that, where you

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00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,240
know, if you're in the KJV, it's
like sons of Israel or Jacob,

315
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:11,600
but it really might be better
translated as sons of God, Sons

316
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:12,480
of God.
Elohim.

317
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,840
Elohim or whatever.
Elohim OK, yeah.

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00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,840
And so he's getting and that's
where he's kind of getting a lot

319
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,120
of this cosmic geography where
there are like the the Prince of

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00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,040
Persia that we read about in or
we have different countries set

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00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,240
up, right.
I don't know if you can talk to

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00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:26,520
that a little more too.
Yeah, yeah.

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00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:31,000
So I think I think it got more
traction and validity when the

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00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,320
Dead Sea Scrolls were found
because one of the fragments of

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00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,920
the Dead Sea Scrolls is the end
of Deuteronomy 32 where it has

326
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,400
the word Elohim.
Elohim.

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00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:48,880
Elohim and so you know that his
his reasoning is is when the

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00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,600
nations were dispersed, Israel
wasn't a nation yet.

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00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:57,120
So like, why would God divide
all the people among the sons of

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00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,000
Israel?
That doesn't make any sense.

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00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,160
I think the ESV translates it
sons of God, but some of them

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00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,680
still translated I think sons of
Israel, some of the some of the

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00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:10,720
versions, but it but that that
makes sense to me and it and it

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00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:16,359
also ties this ties to I think
it's Psalm 82.

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00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,119
That's the one, yeah, that he
talks about a lot, yeah.

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00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,599
And, and I think if you look at
that part, if you look at

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00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:24,400
Deuteronomy 32 and you look at
in conjunction with Psalm or

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00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,800
connect you connect the two
together, it makes sense.

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00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,320
It's like God's.
I've I've heard theories that

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00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,720
Psalm 82 is, is God talking
amongst himself, but that

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00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:35,560
doesn't make any sense.
He wouldn't correct himself.

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00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:40,360
He is is clearly to me divine.
The divine counsel I think is,

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is what a hyzer would call it.
And that would make sense if

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these were these beings were put
over the nation's.

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00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,600
They did something wrong because
a lot of the nation's fell away

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00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,440
or, you know, went against
Israel.

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00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,320
And so like it's him rebuking
them.

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So I think that's in a nutshell,
that's how Heiser comes up with

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00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:05,240
this Deuteronomy 32 worldview.
He, he connects those dots with

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00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,360
the Dead Sea Scrolls and with
Psalm 82, some of those weird

351
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:11,920
verses that we, you know, we
don't have great answers for, I

352
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,200
think in the past.
Yeah, that, that that's really

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00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,600
helpful.
And I'm just to help listeners

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00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,840
out there.
What's helped me based on

355
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,360
listening to Heiser when I'm
reading the Old Testament, I'm

356
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:25,160
always on the lookout for OK,
you read Nephilim, be on the

357
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,720
lookout for Anakim, be on the
lookout for Rathaim, and be on

358
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,360
the lookout for even like.
Zazomine.

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00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,240
Is that yeah, all the, all the
Eames.

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00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,680
It's like that's like where
where he goes and he's looking

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00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,760
at the geography and he's like,
well, Esau took care of like

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00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:44,800
Moab, Moab and and really it's
it's these peoples that are

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00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,160
associated with Kanan.
Get some of these, maybe even

364
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,520
like Bashan specifically.
And I'm a little fuzzy on that.

365
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,760
I don't know if that's like on
the tip of your your tongue.

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00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,000
I know I'm just like throwing
stuff out there that's.

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00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,080
A deep cut.
No, I there from what I can

368
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,880
remember from the podcast, I
don't know if Heiser goes into

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00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,120
much of the the naming, but
there is something with that

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00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,400
Raphi or you know that that that
etymology of that word and how

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00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,880
that there's all these.
I think there's like 10 or 12

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giant tribes I think that people
have, can they they name them

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00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:20,160
giant, giant tribes based on the
naming of the, the the race or

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whatever.
Because like Gath comes from

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00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:24,760
Raphael or like that's like
Goliath.

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00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,520
It's all right.
My understanding what it was

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00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,120
kind of like traces that way.
Yeah, yeah.

378
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:31,920
So I think that's how and I
think, I think I think there's I

379
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,480
might have put it in the notes,
there's some kind of giant wars

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00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,240
supposedly in the beginning of
the Old Testament, like around

381
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,760
Abraham, like maybe before
there's like some kind of giant

382
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,800
war maybe talked about.
Are you talking like with light

383
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,600
and these kings?
And I think so.

384
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:51,800
I think that's what you're
talking about.

385
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,040
I'm a little in the TAR, like,
you know what I'm saying?

386
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,160
Like all these great kings and
Abraham goes rescue live.

387
00:19:56,360 --> 00:20:00,040
I mean, I'm very familiar with
the the lot getting taken.

388
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,960
I had never connected it to
there being giants, but I know

389
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,320
that they like they got a lot of
folks and they, there are 10

390
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,400
different basically tribes that
went after these, I think 5

391
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,720
generals that kind of had
conquered people and then they

392
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,120
split the money ten ways.
And then Abraham gave all of his

393
00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:20,720
110th to.
To Melchizedek, which is also a

394
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,480
different podcast, but yeah, so
so I had never connected there,

395
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:25,640
so I need to read that story
more.

396
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,960
Closely, I think some of those
groups of people were were giant

397
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:29,960
tribes.
I could be wrong.

398
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,840
There's some kind of in in in
this hyzer realm.

399
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,000
There's some kind of giant war
in the beginning of the Old

400
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,640
Testament that they talk about.
But to expand on that, like why

401
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,680
it matters, I think, I think I
was, if I didn't complete this

402
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,960
thought, I just wanted to get
that out there is that is it?

403
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,440
I think there's a lot of
unchurched people that look at,

404
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,120
you know, going back to what I
said, is it how could God do

405
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:55,280
this?
And I think that it, it answers

406
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,360
that question, I think
logically, like it's not, it's

407
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:01,440
not him just being genocide.
And I've heard that the

408
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,920
explanation just, it's him
trying to keep the Israelites

409
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,360
separate from, you know, and I
there, there probably is some of

410
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:10,200
that, I think in that.
And and those cultures were

411
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,640
really, really evil.
I mean, we have very graphic

412
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,600
laws that they had in the book.
Like, OK, the only reason you'd

413
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,640
have this law in the book is
because y'all were practicing

414
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,560
some very graphic stuff that I
won't say here, but yeah, so,

415
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,160
yeah.
So I think there could be more

416
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,400
than one reason why.
So like, even if this panned out

417
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,560
to not be the case, God has some
good reason because he, you

418
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,480
know, when Joseph went down, he
says, I'm going to give them 400

419
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,520
years to repent.
But really their iniquity is

420
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,760
going to multiply and then we're
going to come back and kind of

421
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,560
do a clean slate.
But I think this does help make

422
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,840
sense because when they went
with the, the 12 spies went in

423
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,480
what they say like we're
grasshoppers.

424
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,560
This is This is not good.
That's something that I, I,

425
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,520
after learning about, I guess
this aspect or this different

426
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,000
view of that, of that verse, you
know, I think it's always

427
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,760
preached on that they were just,
they were weak and they didn't

428
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,200
trust God or something.
But like, no, I think that's

429
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,560
wrong, I think.
I think that they had seen some

430
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,680
pretty they.
Had seen some crazy stuff.

431
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,000
I mean there is a little bit of
them not trusting God they're

432
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,440
getting wrong, but it's not if
if there's an entire city full

433
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,400
of giants like you know, I've
heard it speculated, you know,

434
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,880
71012134.
I mean Aug was 14 feet tall.

435
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,840
Who knows how tall they could
have got?

436
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,160
I, I, I was reading the book of
first Enoch or listening to it

437
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,840
and I, I might have, I was
trying to look this up, but I

438
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,960
know I think it's hyperbole or
apocalyptic literature, but like

439
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,760
one giant was like 300 cubits
tall, like 300 cubits, I think

440
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,440
it was.
As big as the Ark, that's.

441
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:40,680
Like crazy.
Yeah.

442
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,080
So I don't know if that's just
like a year of speech for part

443
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,760
of that, but.
I've heard arguments that they

444
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:46,760
they they were really, really
big.

445
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:48,560
Yeah.
I don't know how you verify.

446
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,680
That Well, yeah.
And I saw that video that I had

447
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,600
tagged.
I don't know if you saw it.

448
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,520
Did you see it on video on
Facebook?

449
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,600
But it was basically the video
the guy was saying Laos is the

450
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,760
most and he's like, this is the
record.

451
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,800
I'm just repeating what he said.
He said it is a verifiable fact

452
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,640
that Laos is the most bombed
country on the earth.

453
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,480
And it's like never been in any
wars.

454
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,320
Why is the US and Russia and
other people bombing this

455
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,840
country?
And like they zoom in and like

456
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:22,680
there are seemingly these
artifacts of huge scale there

457
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,120
that the narrative that this guy
was putting out was that

458
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:30,120
countries like whenever they're
doing their test bombs and

459
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,040
stuff, they do it there because
they're wanting to destroy

460
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,720
evidence of this culture.
It seems a little bit conspiracy

461
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,800
theory, but I mean I saw a video
of things that looked like cups

462
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,320
that were probably as big around
as this table and it looked like

463
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,080
it was a cup.
If you want to go into

464
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:46,400
conspiracy theories, I'm your
guy.

465
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:50,680
We found we got no but.
Just just piggybacking off that,

466
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,120
have you heard of the Kandahar
giant?

467
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,800
That was a famous like thing
that happened like in 2009,

468
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,440
maybe 2012, but it's like a well
documented like military.

469
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,800
There was like a special forces
military group that was in

470
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,440
Afghanistan that was in this
cave and supposedly had to kill

471
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,440
this giant.
And it's been, there's a

472
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,720
testimony of like one of the C
17 pilots that flew him out

473
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,000
because he flew him back to the
States, the body.

474
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,760
Well.
And that's like, I think that's

475
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,280
one of the most recent modern
day examples that I've heard of.

476
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:29,720
So would you say that sightings
of of things that sometimes get

477
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,520
called extraterrestrial could be
remnants of Nephilim still on

478
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:34,480
Earth?
Is that what you're?

479
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,000
That's a that's a topic.
Answer the question you play,

480
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:39,840
you know.
What I'm saying?

481
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,000
Yeah, I so.
I think most extraterrestrials

482
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,280
that I think that's a different
topic.

483
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,560
I think that's more and the
Elohim like, you know, like.

484
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,880
Straight up demonic activity.
I think it's, I think it's

485
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:54,320
demonic or angelic like I, I
think there's angels in the

486
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,360
Bible that had to get around
from places to places.

487
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,720
Yeah, I thought.
I don't know what else you had

488
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,400
in mind.
I took your notes and gave it to

489
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,720
ChatGPT.
And then I asked what are some

490
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,600
common objections that would get
raised against?

491
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,280
This viewpoint I have to defend
my point.

492
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,160
Well, I thought it'd be good for
us to discuss because we're on

493
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,040
your side, Clay.
But are you?

494
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:18,760
I think so.
Speak for yourself, Mike.

495
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,080
So one of the one of the
objections was that the Bible

496
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:27,680
presents a monotheistic view and
this divine council could be

497
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,320
interpreted as lots of different
gods.

498
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,000
And this was like one of my
first, when I first heard people

499
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:38,480
calling like it's the divine
council, I was like, no, there's

500
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,400
one God, three persons, there's
only one divinity.

501
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,640
So how would you answer that if
someone gave?

502
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,360
Me that that's a good question.
And that I had that same

503
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:48,800
response.
I think the first time I heard

504
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,320
of Hyzer's work and this divine
council is like, whoa, hold on,

505
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,360
there's equal beings to God.
That's that's not that's not

506
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:55,600
right.
That's heretical.

507
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:56,520
That can't be true.
Right.

508
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,280
And we would have still affirmed
that today.

509
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,720
And I, yes, 100% I, but I think,
I think there is there's a level

510
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,600
of divine beings that are higher
than the angels potentially.

511
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,080
But but God is that I think, I
think that you might have said

512
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,720
this in your podcast is that
he's the holy of holies.

513
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,800
He's the God of gods like.
God, right?

514
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,560
And all of those would be.
Between the main God as opposed

515
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,280
to the sons of God.
Right.

516
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,960
And all of those would be
created beings, Yes, Yeah.

517
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,000
He's the only non created.
Being and I think what The thing

518
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,240
is, and I agree with you, I
think the problem is the slide

519
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,840
of language and how we use
language because for us and in

520
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,280
America, like an English divine
just means the uncreated

521
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,440
creator.
And so to give that adjective to

522
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,520
someone else, we all have this.
So if you read divine counsel,

523
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,800
we're not saying that there's
more than one.

524
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,160
There's someone that's on the
equal plane of God.

525
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,880
And Heiser does a good job of
saying there are different

526
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,480
levels of angels.
We see that seraphim, cherubim,

527
00:26:54,760 --> 00:27:00,480
messenger angels, archangels.
We don't get like a biological

528
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,280
taxonomy of them.
And again, in in English, we

529
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:10,800
kind of just say Angel over all
of them, but that maybe not

530
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,720
being true to the levels that we
see there, even though we don't

531
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,480
understand all levels that are
there.

532
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:22,680
OK, next objection.
Psalm 82 and its context could

533
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,800
be something other than the
Elohim.

534
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:30,520
It could be, you know, rulers, I
think we talked about this, or

535
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,800
judges who aren't doing their
job.

536
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,480
So how would you say that?
What would you Jesus reference

537
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:43,080
in John 1034 could imply that
Gods was not a divine being but

538
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:44,720
just humans?
Like it's sons of gods.

539
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,720
Like how people?
Say, yeah, I would have, I would

540
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,640
have to like really look at the
verses and see any of the

541
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,600
nuances that would I feel like
that it is leaned heavily

542
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,680
towards divine beings and not
humans, right?

543
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,840
I mean, I think, well, yeah,
talking this out loud, I mean,

544
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:01,680
it says you will die like men,
right?

545
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,400
Why would why would it say that
if they were already men, right?

546
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,760
I mean, I think that's, I think
that's the biggest point.

547
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,440
That's good.
And I, I think it helps you make

548
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,520
sense of like weird passages
like that we talked about on our

549
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,240
last podcast we did on Heiser, I
think.

550
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,400
But that first Kings 19 passage
where Ahab's there and it seems

551
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,880
like Yahweh's up there and like,
what should we do with Ahab?

552
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,680
And like one of the divine
counts was like, oh, let's put a

553
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,200
lying spirit in them and he's
like, all right, I'll allow it.

554
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,520
Or it seems like their God uses
means in the spiritual realm

555
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,280
just like he just means in the
human.

556
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,040
I think that's a good point.
I think that that's, that's

557
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,200
where the counsel I think comes
into play.

558
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,840
Like God is in charge of it, but
he's still, he's still

559
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,520
interacting and like getting
opinions, not opinions, but like

560
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,800
he's, he's giving other beings
like options and discussing

561
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,360
things and like what, what
should we do here?

562
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,560
Kind of like you said, like I
think there's a passage where

563
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,640
the he stretches out his hand
over somebody to like cause an

564
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,680
issue or something like that is
a specific first.

565
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,120
All right, I got two more
objections because some of them

566
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,560
are related that we've already
answered kind of.

567
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,480
But what about when Paul is in
First Corinthians and he's

568
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,720
saying, you know, people get all
hung up about this meat that's

569
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,080
being given over to idols And we
know that the idols are not even

570
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,200
real, that that's not even a
real thing.

571
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,680
It's really in someone's mind.
Could someone object to say that

572
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:25,240
these so-called gods are really
They don't have any divine

573
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,640
power, they're just made-up in
people's minds?

574
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,240
Do you have that passage,
Michael, on you?

575
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,360
Here we.
Go do First Corinthians 8 four

576
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:34,720
through 6.
Yeah, read that for.

577
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,840
Me yeah.
So I I will read it starting

578
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,560
which verse 4.
So then about eating food,

579
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,880
sacrifice to idols.
We know that an idol is nothing

580
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,640
at all in the world, and that
there is no God but one.

581
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,520
For even if there are so-called
gods, whether in heaven or on

582
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,000
earth, as indeed there are many
gods and many Lords, yet for us

583
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,400
there is but one God the Father,
for whom all things came and for

584
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,240
whom we live.
And there's but one Lord Jesus

585
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,400
Christ, through whom all things
came, and through whom we live.

586
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,960
Yeah, I think that I've
discussed this with my brother.

587
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,120
I think that the gods in the Old
Testament now, if that's they

588
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,120
were physical beings or if they
were beings that inhabited other

589
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,800
people or or idols themselves,
like there was something there.

590
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,000
I think that people don't just
sacrifice their children to to

591
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,080
wooden statues, right?
I think they don't do all these

592
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,320
crazy rituals to like something
that's not there.

593
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,040
I think they were actual beings
and I feel like maybe.

594
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,040
Growing up, do you think that
those beings could be

595
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,200
influencing modern day cultures
to sacrifice their kids for

596
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,200
prosperity today?
I think so.

597
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,520
I mean it seems.
I mean, I, I think I've, I've

598
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,560
heard arguments that Jesus's
work on the cross like stifled

599
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,640
some of their influence, like it
didn't necessarily stop it

600
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,720
altogether that he's going to do
that when he comes back.

601
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,480
But I think that might be some
of the reason where we've seen

602
00:30:54,920 --> 00:31:00,080
some of that mysticism and
supernatural like being, you

603
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,160
know, usher out of our culture
is because like some of that

604
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,480
influence has died down.
It's not as strong as it once

605
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,200
was.
But I I argue that at the

606
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,120
beginning it was, it was very
strong.

607
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,560
Like, I mean, like I said,
people wouldn't have done all

608
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,960
this in the Old Testament if
there wasn't something behind

609
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:14,640
it.
Yeah.

610
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,600
And I, I think it's fair for
Paul to say this physical object

611
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,720
is nothing, but it doesn't mean
that there's not a spirit that

612
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,000
could be, you know, deceiving
people about this physical

613
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,240
object type of thing, because we
know that there were demons that

614
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,280
Jesus cast it out.
And, and so I, I don't think

615
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:35,680
that would make sense of the
passage.

616
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,480
These are just what, what Chachi
BT came up with.

617
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,920
So the last one, what what about
the view that the divine council

618
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,920
is really metaphorical and
trying to explain how God

619
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:53,640
deliberates to kind of show like
how God's trying to, you know,

620
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,000
make up his mind on how in the
passage they use is the one, and

621
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,320
I don't know if we need to read
this, but first Kings 22.

622
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,200
And it's where Ahab is like
trying to decide whether he's

623
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:05,440
going to go down to battle or
not.

624
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,880
And God is talking to his
counsel and he's like, who will

625
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,280
go and entice Ahab to go and the
sins of deceiving spirit.

626
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,360
And I think that there's this is
maybe recorded in Kings and

627
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,400
Chronicles and it's, there's
some nuance that's different

628
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,760
between those.
But do you think it's reasonable

629
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:29,560
to interpret this as all just
God explaining how he goes about

630
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,360
deciding something to people?
I mean, honestly, that doesn't

631
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:33,920
make sense to.
Me.

632
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,440
I know it doesn't to me.
Either I mean I thought chat GP

633
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,000
would have a better.
I think chat was pulling

634
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,600
probably from resources that
other people had said because I

635
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,240
asked it what do people commonly
use to inveigh against Heiser's

636
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,760
view.
That seems like a stretch to.

637
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,960
I mean, I guess if you could
argue that point somehow if you

638
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,320
wanted to go super metaphorical
with it, right?

639
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,400
But I think, I think that a lot
in the Bible we need to take

640
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,000
more literal than metaphorical.
Yeah, it's a dangerous Rd. when

641
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,560
everyone's like, well, is this
real?

642
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,360
Yeah, it's too, too out there.
That's really good, Jack.

643
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:07,840
GPT cut.
It was no match.

644
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,920
I mean, I mean, I knew it
wouldn't be, but I just knew we

645
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,920
knew it.
Yeah, well, I don't got anything

646
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,840
else is left unsaid, Clay.
Give a teaser for next time.

647
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,960
We could go down a lot of
different rabbit holes, I think,

648
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,960
and continue the discussion.
Like we didn't even get into the

649
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,080
Book of Enoch and boom.
We should do a because I

650
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,360
actually started listening to
it.

651
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,280
I didn't realize how big of a
book it is.

652
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,120
I was like, I'm not going to get
through this.

653
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:33,800
I was.
Going to Yeah, well, the I will

654
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,480
say the first book I think
there's like.

655
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,520
There's a lot, yes.
I think it's divided into like 3

656
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,360
sections.
The first one I think is like

657
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,680
legit like I think.
I think it's like referenced in

658
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,200
Jude.
Too legit to quit?

659
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,400
Too legit to Oh wow too.
Quit.

660
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,600
It's like referenced in Jude, I
think, I think Peter or Paul

661
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,400
references it or something.
And, and so I think there's a

662
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,800
lot of validity to that being
like need to be read by a

663
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,200
Christian.
Historically accurate?

664
00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:59,680
Yeah.
Not necessarily inspired, but

665
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:00,520
historically.
Accurate.

666
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,400
I don't.
I'm not saying it's inspired.

667
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,480
Should it have been canonical or
canonical or canonical?

668
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:06,640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, I don't know.

669
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,159
But I do think that they read it
back in the day, so maybe we

670
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:11,719
should read it to give some
context.

671
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,400
The DDK or the Shepherd of
Hermus?

672
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:15,920
They we would know how they
would think or that literature

673
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:16,960
that they would be familiar
with.

674
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,159
That's good.
The last thing I'll say is that

675
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:21,719
if you're watching this and you
notice we're in the sanctuary,

676
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,960
don't tell Pastor Joel that
we're drinking in the sanctuary

677
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,280
because I think that's a rule
that Clay set us up and take us.

678
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:29,280
Down.
They're all clear.

679
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,320
Liquids, it's all it's all
clear, Pastor Joel.

680
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,560
Clear liquids.
Don't believe if you if you hear

681
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,040
that.
So that's the last thing I got.

682
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:37,480
You should close this out, Clay.
Yeah, yeah.

683
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,040
I think, I think that's all I
got.

684
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,040
So there you go.
That's all.

685
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:42,320
That's our take.
Yes, there we go.

686
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,159
Thanks for listening to Take Two
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687
00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:50,480
podcasts and on YouTube.