What Makes Worship Music Faithful? Lyrics, Sources, and Discernment

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What you're talking about when
you sit sit next to a person at

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church, Should every Christian
sing?

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Oh, yeah, is is should, because
you might have been in church

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before and you've heard someone
and you might say, oh, maybe a

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little off Kitty, maybe kind of
loud.

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Yeah, yeah, that's right.
And Ephesians commands that we

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should sing or sing to one
another.

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Right.
Should everyone sing to one

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another?
Even if they Can't Sing.

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That's a hard one to call.
That's a hard call.

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But the Bible says you should.
Right.

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Should everyone sing a solo
then?

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Should everyone get up and do
special music?

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No, OK, and maybe no one should.
Maybe it should be total

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everyone singing.
It's great.

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Yeah.
I, I grew up in a tradition

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where it was like routine every
like the offertory.

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It was like a special music kind
of thing that was like a staple

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and it was rotate through, you
know, a lot of people kind of

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thing.
Yeah, Who's got the special this

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morning?
Yeah.

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He's got the special.
Well, if you sing admonishment,

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you're not singing a solo as
much as you're singing

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admonishment, you know, because
Colossians 316 let the word of

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Christ dwell in you richly with
all wisdom, singing to one

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another with hymns, song the
spiritual songs giving thanks to

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God.
So admonishment songs admonish

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us and we should sing to one
another's songs.

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And I, I don't think I've ever
really done that.

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I mean I've done it in a group,
big group, but not like.

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You never looked at Someone Like
You should be kinder to your

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wife.
Actually, I have done it to my

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kids.
It's true.

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I have sing be kind one to
another.

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It was a little 80s feel.
Yeah, I.

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Love it, man.
My father-in-law had a song he

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sang that was and he's not a
great singer, but it has stuck

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with his kids and then we pass
on to our kids.

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So they can probably tell you,
but it sometimes you got to do

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things you don't want to do.
That's all right.

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Yeah, nice.
Love it.

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Yeah.
I mean, Steve Green had those

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albums.
Yeah, yeah.

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Do.
Everything without.

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Complaining.
Oh yes.

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My kids heard me singing that.
We did a lot of parenting from

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that.
Yeah, yeah.

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You know what?
It's come out and sing.

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And Isaac, one time his cousins
were over.

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They were, I don't know, 6-7
years old or something. 67670

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No.
It happened to me.

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Why?
Why, why, why, why?

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But anyway, so she was
complaining and she and he

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looked at her and he said, you
know what the song says?

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Yeah, instead of.
Singing it to her man, that is.

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Colossians 316.
Should everyone though sing in

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that can't?
If they can't even sing, should

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they obey 316?
Is is there a certain volume

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threshold?
Like, do we just sing as loud as

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we can, you know?
Whatever love constrains there.

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You go Amen.
Well, this podcast, we're going

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to be talking about the
philosophy of worship and

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worship sing and we we I we
didn't say it last time, but

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we're at a elder's retreat.
That's right.

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And so our last recording with
Tim, you may have heard some

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background.
I think there was a football

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game on.
That's right.

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We're kind of on the path to
Joel and Diana's room.

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I had to sneak bias at the end
of last one, but so we wouldn't

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take this time to do some
podcasts with Tim and and to get

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us thoughts.
We so we just finished one up

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with counseling.
Wanted to you've had a long

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experience with being a worship
leader and playing piano and

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maybe even conducting a band in
the in the past.

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So we thought it would be good
to kind of have a podcast where

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we talk about Christian worship
songs, maybe the philosophy of

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that, and maybe some some tough
questions we get asked.

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Yeah, that's really good.
But there's something I have to

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say or something.
Can you sing it?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sing.

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We're going to take it to the
next level, but you got to sing

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it.
You.

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Got to sing.
It all right, guys, I hope no

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one sees this is going to think
that I'm a you know, you know

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we're going to take it to the
next level.

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How's that?
Is that good?

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Cut that sound.
Perfect, perfect.

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Let's fire up that twanga music.
From the hearts of the Low

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Country in South Carolina.
It's the Take Two podcast where

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we take theology to the next
level.

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Worship.
I feel like I'm sitting in

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between. 2 worshippers.
I'm a worshipper too, but two

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worship leaders.
Yes, and my and it's true and

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it's so good to have more than
one worship leader because we

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all worship bring a different
strength to that.

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But as far as Michael, you asked
me, I said.

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When I was 1615, I started
leading worship in my Free Will

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Baptist Church.
Like you were the OR you just

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rotated in some.
I was it a very small.

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Very.
Small church and I like tell

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told me I banged on the piano,
which I did anyway.

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So as I developed more
theologically from that church

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into understanding certain
doctrines of grace and so forth.

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I continue to lead and ended up
for 10 years being a worship

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pastor with choir, little little
brass band and this and that.

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But I, I quickly in five years,
I realized we, we need to have

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worship Bible studies.
So Colossians 316 says we need

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to dwell richly in the word of
God with all wisdom so that we

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can then sing.
So so we started to do that and

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some of those worship Bible says
were some of the most sweet

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times I can I can think back to.
So yeah.

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So it's been a long time.
I'm 57 now.

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Wow.
Yeah, I don't think I've ever

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said that.
So from 1557 you got the, you

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got, you know, pricing at all.
What's the worst?

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This what?
Was the craziest thing that's

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happened during a worship.
Service.

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Oh, my goodness.
All right.

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So I was about 30 to 31.
He knows immediately which.

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I do.
It doesn't even, you know, it

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doesn't even.
Yeah, this is the one.

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So we're rehearsing, we're
warming up, right?

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And there's a cord that the
guitarist is plugged into his

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direct box and it's not working.
And you know, sometimes when

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you're getting pumped up to lead
worship and thinking through the

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the importance of it and
everything, you just kind of

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lose kind of, or I did I lose
sense of like practical

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thinking, right.
So I said, well, what you got to

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do, you got to pull that out and
just lick it.

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Oh no.
I put that thing in my mouth.

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It just kind of, I don't know.
Michael was impulsive ADHD.

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Here we are.
And I saw lights that I'd never

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seen before.
Wow, he's amazing. 110 voltage.

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Probably something like that.
I.

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Don't know what it was right to
your top.

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No, I don't know.
I just know what had happened.

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It brought you closer to God.
It did in more ways than.

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One so that's the worst I've
seen it all that's.

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Quite the story.
More than I want to see, have

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you?
I've only heard what is this?

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What's the word urban legends of
this happening really.

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Have you ever not that
particular what I'm about to ask

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you about, but have you ever
experienced a church that sang

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little drummer boy as if it was
a theologically, you know, a

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song or or was that was mistaken
it for like biblically accurate?

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Yeah, talk about singing
unbiblical songs, right?

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Yeah, So, yeah.
But yeah, it was a children's

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choir director and I, it wasn't
the church I was at, but one of

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the children were in a choir and
I think it was my wife or

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something.
I heard the children's choir.

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So what did the Little Drummer
boy do at Christmas?

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Kids and the and the others know
the Bible are looking at each

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other.
Like what are they teaching?

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What's going on?
Yeah.

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So that's crazy.
I've seen it.

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So I think I don't, I think it
was you, but it may have been

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Greg Kokal.
I don't know.

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But someone told me that there
was a distinctive that

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Christians have over other
religions and that no other

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religions sing their doctrine.
And we have talked about how

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music does tap into emotions.
You know, rock can can tap into

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like a energetic, maybe even,
you know, you know, an angry

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rebellion.
Sometimes that's the the claim

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emotion and then you can have
soothing emotions.

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But maybe talk to us about how
you see music helping to connect

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emotions and intellect.
And I will say that there may be

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other religions that sing about
their God, but the way that

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Christians sing about the
humility of their God, I mean,

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they can sing about the power of
their God.

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Can they really sing about the
love and humility of their God

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like Christians can?
So it is a very different song

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that we sing to our God.
Now your other question was what

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was about?
Emotions and it like because

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someone could make the here's
the the someone could make the

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claim music you're just trying
to manipulate people emotional.

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Just as I am 10 verses, I see
that hands come down.

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We're going to play it some
more.

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Get you, you know.
I think.

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I never could in that example.
That's probably pushing it the

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other direction.
But I, I think maybe you can

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talk to us about the healthy
side of that.

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Maybe, yeah.
When it says sing with all your

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heart, Yeah, what are we talking
about?

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Do we want to pretty that up so
we don't have to say what it

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really rejoice in the Lord
always, you know rejoice

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exalting in the Lord, exulting
with a you you know where to set

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our affections on things above.
How do we do that?

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You know, we can set our mind,
but.

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But singing helps us to
comprehend truth as it has

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effect on us.
We.

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The more we see something
beautiful, the more you know.

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Michael, you have a lot of
science.

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You know a lot of things.
You know when you see a

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lightning bolt?
Yeah.

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What do you see?
I.

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Mean, honestly, I think about
wow, this is what it was, sorry,

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hotter than the surface of the
sun.

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God used that just now to fix
nitrogen so that our plants

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could grow and we can have food.
That's how God does it, and he

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balances out US
electromagnetically through

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that.
Then I talk to my kids about

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that and they go, oh, that's
cool.

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So when the Bible tells us to
observe the power of God and

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lightning and Thunder, you
observe it more fully because

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and so it it means something
more to you.

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And then when you sing about it,
you're you're amazed more by it.

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Like you don't know much about
Michael Jordan.

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I could tell from our pre show
that you really were messing

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around.
I feel like his like toughest

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defender ever played was John
Stark.

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I feel like there just was not.
I feel like it's a different.

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Era OK, we're going to move off
that real quick, but I will say

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that you have no idea when when
I if I saw Michael Jordan, I

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would be like I'm singing now it
may not come out as a song, but

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it's the same feel of a song I'm
worshipping in a sense what?

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People did for.
The world.

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Today, Drake may the the glory
of of the greatness.

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That they have, yeah.
So if you don't, if you don't

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know to the degree you know and
comprehend something is to the

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degree which will which you will
sing to it, whether you want to

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call it sing or not, there's
something in your heart

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happening.
Joy, enthusiast, anticipation,

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approval, crying out glory.
You know, whatever it is, you

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use your own word.
Wow, that's amazing.

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You applaud.
God commands that stuff.

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I grew up in a church.
Someone who's a special, you

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don't clap for him.
You only say Amen, right?

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Have you ever seen, you know,
this culture?

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Do you know?
This culture, we give glory to

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God, not to the person.
I'm not, I'm just, you know, I'm

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just saying it's.
Funny, what would the other side

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00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:27,840
worship the Lord in reverence?
The the pan back at 2:20 or I

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think it's somewhere in there.
The Lord is in his holy temple.

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Let the earth shut up or be
quiet.

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So and the other side of that
there is, but you're right, I'm

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not.
But maybe that's all they do

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right right now.
You can't.

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00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:49,400
So silence can be a form of
reverence, but we should be

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00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,600
fully orbed.
Right, dancing without your

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00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,240
outer clothing on seems like
it's in the realm it's in the

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00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,320
it's it's in the spectrum of
something we might should do.

242
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Is that purely descriptive?
I don't know that God is saying.

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00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,440
Yeah.
Totally, You have to do that,

244
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,920
but that seems like it is What's
the word I'm looking for?

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00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:13,320
It's it's in the realm of
possibilities of how God wants

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00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,240
us to worship.
Yeah, I think the closest I've

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got to dancing and worship is
probably just like this, You

248
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,920
know, I, I, I I don't know what
I would do if I.

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Didn't sing to the king?
That's one I want to dance,

250
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,200
honestly.
Sing to the king.

251
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,040
You know that song?
It's just got that.

252
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,520
And it's should.
And it's about this exuberant

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excitement for God's reign in
our lives and on the earth.

254
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It's like man, that should
motivate us.

255
00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:49,800
Yeah, I think about when Jesus
shows up, you know, at the on

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the at the well, and that the
Father is seeking worshippers

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who will worship him in spirit.
Yeah.

258
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And in truth, truth, and
certainly under the Spirit

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00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,040
banner is what you're talking.
Right, right.

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00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,760
But we could be in spirit, but
not in truth, and that's a

261
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,560
problem.
That's heresy.

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Idolatry.
Yeah, there is a song that came

263
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,360
out.
Well, there's this CD that came

264
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:24,400
out maybe late 90s and there was
a, there was a song on it that I

265
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,800
liked.
I can't remember it right now,

266
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,720
but I remember the song A Man
After Your Own Heart was the

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00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,920
song I liked.
And I, I sang, I sang that as a

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00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:37,160
special, you know that song.
Well, I don't know it, but did

269
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:43,960
you sing it as as admonishment?
But there was also a song on

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00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:48,160
this same CD that had words that
basically said hold, hold.

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00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,480
I think it was point of grace.
Hold on to me.

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Never let me go.
I'll never let go of you.

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00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,040
And I'd listen to that.
I'm like, that is completely

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backwards from the truth of
Bible because God says he's

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going to hold on to us.
Yeah.

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00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,040
And I I think I thought about
all the people who listen that.

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What do they take away from
that?

278
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Yeah, the emphasis, even if it
may be a little bit OK, the

279
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,680
emphasis seems off because it's
keeping our eyes upon Jesus is

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00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,040
going to be the emphasis of how
we walk on water.

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Yeah, and how we don't sink.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So I just.
So maybe there's other songs

283
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,320
like that.
So I remember being young and

284
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,440
new at CBC and I grew up from a
tradition where we sang a lot of

285
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,080
hymns.
Yes, I did too.

286
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,800
And we sang in four part
harmony.

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00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,600
So.
We had basses, we had tenors, we

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00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:47,000
had Altos, we had Sopranos, and
you could hear at our church all

289
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,560
four parts singing along.
So I was really focused on, you

290
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,880
know, I was really, when I first
started on CBCS, like, why are

291
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:55,960
we not singing on him?
Why don't I have music to read?

292
00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,000
That was my experience.
And so a lot of the songs that I

293
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,000
liked were songs that I had that
had great harmony parts or that

294
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,280
the music was really good.
And then I think I suggested a

295
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:12,320
song one time and well, we don't
know about the theology of that.

296
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,640
So talk to me about maybe songs
that you would maybe want to

297
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,680
sing and maybe songs you
wouldn't, even if they're out of

298
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:18,800
the hymn book.
Yeah.

299
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,720
From from a theological
standpoint cause not all hymns

300
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:23,600
are created equally.
No, they're not.

301
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:29,400
Some hymns, some songs tell us,
give us an opportunity to

302
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:34,760
respond to God's glory, and some
songs define God's glory.

303
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,840
And some songs do both right,
like How Great Thou Art would do

304
00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:41,840
both.
Yeah.

305
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,440
When I think that God, his Son
not sparing sent Him to die, I

306
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,560
scarce can take it in, but on
the cross, my burden gladly

307
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,760
bearing, He bled and died to
take away my sin, then sings my

308
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,520
soul.
So that's a good example of both

309
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,720
sides of that.
You've got the description of

310
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,480
God coming, you're singing
about, and you have the response

311
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,599
of God, and you got to have both
as a worshiper, you know, truth

312
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,520
and spirit, right.
And so, yeah, I'm trying to

313
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,319
think of songs that I have
heard.

314
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,760
Well, you know, the one that is
obviously wrong.

315
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:15,640
I mean, this is going to be so
obvious.

316
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,920
It may not be as effective as I
got something else.

317
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:24,000
But here's one.
In my church growing up, we sang

318
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,720
a song.
God's going to get you for that.

319
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,360
You know, Tammy, what's your
name?

320
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:36,160
Wynette and what's his name?
I can't Frank something hang

321
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,120
something.
God's going to get you for that

322
00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:44,920
and I was young.
That's not I mean it it's true.

323
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:51,040
Maybe depends on where you're at
in relation to Christ, you know,

324
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:55,160
and is that going to get you as
sending you to hell or

325
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,080
discipline if you're in sin.
But, you know, there's songs

326
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,200
that make much about us and
those are songs that bother me

327
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,400
when I'm as a worship leader,
you know, because even saying

328
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,800
I'm going to hold on to you.
Jesus, though, it's, you know,

329
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,600
but it's still making much of
what you're going to do.

330
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:17,640
Right.
And should should we sing songs

331
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:20,120
in which we commit to the Lord?
Absolutely.

332
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:26,360
Take my life and let it be holy
consecrated Lord to thee.

333
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,560
You know, that's that's a good
song, but what are you doing

334
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:35,680
that in light of your simple
will or in light of God's mercy,

335
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,680
offer your body.
So even there we have this

336
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:45,640
perspective that what glory of
God do we offer our bodies in

337
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,560
light of or do we just sing a
song about what I'm going to do

338
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:53,280
for you in light of his mercy,
you know, offer your body.

339
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,840
And when Paul's talking about
the mercy of God and the grace

340
00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:01,240
of God, he's going to say I am
what I am by the grace of God.

341
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:06,360
He he's he's overwhelmed by the
thought that he's been the least

342
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:11,360
of the apostles been given this
grace to preach and untimely

343
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:14,240
born in these sorts of things.
But he goes on to say in that

344
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,680
first that passage about but I
labor more than all the other

345
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,440
apostles, which sounds very
arrogant.

346
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,360
Self help.
I'm asserting myself.

347
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:24,840
Look what I know, he says, But
not I.

348
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,320
But the grace of God.
So yeah, when a song makes much

349
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,760
about me, I don't like it.
Yeah, like then, you know, some

350
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,160
songs like that that have come
out.

351
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:40,760
Well, yeah, yeah, there was a,
there was a Mike's Chair song

352
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,920
that came out.
I, I, I kind of checked out of

353
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,720
listening to popular stuff
because I'm all podcasts and

354
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,800
audio books these days.
So I don't listen to the, you

355
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,080
know, the way FMS or the his
radios.

356
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:54,720
So I don't hear the popular
stuff.

357
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,480
But there when I was, there was
some Mike's chair song that came

358
00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:58,560
out and I don't even remember
it.

359
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,760
I was just like, this is just
backwards.

360
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,760
But I think I think you can have
songs get it backwards, whether

361
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,760
they're contemporary or hymn.
Crazy beautiful, Yeah.

362
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,480
There's a song.
Maybe what?

363
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,920
How long ago?
Maybe I'm maybe dating that one,

364
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,280
but it's a long time ago.
But there's a something called

365
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,480
your beautiful, Crazy beautiful.
And I know what the purpose of

366
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,640
that is, is to help people feel
better about themselves.

367
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:24,360
But is that the purpose of
worship?

368
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:29,520
I feel better about myself when
I'm worshipping a God who's in

369
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,160
charge of my failures.
And I say feel better about

370
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,160
myself, meaning I don't focus on
myself.

371
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,280
I say, God, thank you for
accepting me like I am.

372
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:44,440
Change me, you know.
My I grew up with my dad telling

373
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:49,960
me because while I was not the
head lead worship her by 15, at

374
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,280
5, my uncle had me leading a
couple songs.

375
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,320
So as young as five, I would be
up in the front leading songs

376
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,800
and that kind of carried through
to through my teen years.

377
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,240
We went to a different church.
My uncle is out of picture, but

378
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,680
I would occasionally stand in
and lead and I would always try

379
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,520
to do in the garden because it
was my dad's favorite song.

380
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,040
And it's not a, it's not a, it's
not a horrible, horrible song,

381
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,720
but it's very just this
experiential and, and you can

382
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,680
have those kind of times out in
nature.

383
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:24,920
So it's like, but as a worship
service, you got so much space.

384
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,360
Is that the song you want?
Like there's probably songs that

385
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:31,920
are better to fit in that space.
Yeah, they're seeking comfort

386
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,640
from that thought.
He walks with me and talks with

387
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,560
me and tells me I'm his own.
And the joy we share as we tarry

388
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,240
there as none other can ever be
told.

389
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,480
It is very experiential.
So it it's not, it's, it's not

390
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:48,200
talking about yourself as
amazing, but it's talking about

391
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,840
this experience as the amazing
thing about your relationship

392
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,200
with God.
It's it's very lopsided song, if

393
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,920
you will.
There's no glory of God being

394
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,040
described.
Right.

395
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,480
It's just the glory of the
experience of sensing God in

396
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:08,440
nature, which I guess we're told
to do that to a degree, but I

397
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,600
think, you know, yeah, it
doesn't highlight it like you

398
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,840
would want, you know?
Yeah, I, I I want.

399
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,080
Like Pharis, Lord Jesus does
that, but it does it a lot

400
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,480
better.
Pharaoh are the moons and the

401
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,960
metal fair still the son of but
Jesus you're the fairest of all,

402
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:25,240
and you and then we and it goes
through all these different

403
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,320
comparisons.
Now, some of the worst songs

404
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,960
like that could be set up with
some strong theology, and it can

405
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,920
be much better spiritual.
Now you know it can admonish us

406
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:41,120
better, it can reach our hearts.
You know the ever present God

407
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:48,440
meditating on that, you know
immortal, invisible God only

408
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,600
wise and light and accessible,
hid from our eyes.

409
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,440
These this is or be still my
soul.

410
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,640
The Lord is on thy side.
Bear patiently the cross agree.

411
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:03,400
Now these are hymns, right?
What a friend we have in Jesus

412
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,560
or what griefs and we often
forth or or what comfort we

413
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,480
often forfeit what sadness I'm
messing it up.

414
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,320
We often bear all because we
don't carry that to the Lord.

415
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,680
Those are Speaking of God's
glories in an experiential way.

416
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,120
I come to the garden.
It seems to have less of that.

417
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,840
The subject is not Who is God
there, you know.

418
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,520
I think I know the solution is
why don't we just exclusively

419
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,320
sing psalms, get some iambic
pentameter and just get the

420
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,880
salts are out and then we know
we're not going to air.

421
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:42,680
Yes, and and God calls upon us
to sing Psalm 34 all my days,

422
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,400
you know, I will sing to the
Lord all my life, every day I

423
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,080
will praise Him.
So we are to sing to him.

424
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,160
And the Psalms is a good example
of that.

425
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,920
And I mean, God did we.
Sing in preparatory psalms.

426
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,840
Should we put some of those to?
Music, honestly, I think maybe

427
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,640
maybe get some worship songs
that are.

428
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:04,680
I like the realism side of
things too, where everything's

429
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,280
not just like happy and rainbows
all day because I trust in God.

430
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:09,240
Yeah.
Yeah.

431
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:09,920
That's.
True.

432
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:14,880
I I think Zach, you've edged us
on to a topic of what if there's

433
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,840
a good song, but maybe not from
a good source, Like what do we

434
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,760
do with that?
And I think we would, you know,

435
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,200
there's some big threes out
there, but even it's, it is well

436
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:33,400
with my soul by Horatio Sperato
or whatever his name was, he did

437
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,920
not end well.
He ended up having some, some

438
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,240
bad theology in the end.
So but how do we judge?

439
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:42,760
And the love of God, I think he
committed suicide.

440
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,480
Oh yeah, I didn't know that.
I mean, he was an insane asylum.

441
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,280
I don't.
Know well and the while while

442
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,680
we're at it, what is it that
prone to Wanderlord?

443
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,000
I feel it prone to plead the God
up, but that guy did not end

444
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,320
well either.
He he apostasized at the end.

445
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,080
Wesley.
No, no, not Wesley.

446
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,720
Somebody felt.
Come, thou fount of every

447
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:06,400
blessing.
Yeah.

448
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,360
But but even even Wesley, there
might be some theology that you

449
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:12,840
don't wind up super well with.
But you could sing a hymn in

450
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,000
good faith, maybe, right?
Like and and Wesley might have

451
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,800
even meant some of his lines
differently than than you might

452
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,760
mean than when you say I mean if
you want to like, really like,

453
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,840
get out to.
It you know, how bad does a guy

454
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,440
have to end up before you don't
sing a song?

455
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,280
Right.
Or you know, maybe shout to the

456
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,440
Lord, maybe King of Kings
cornerstone, mighty to save.

457
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,600
Well, I know Michael's favorite
song is Oceans.

458
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,680
The ocean side of everything
doesn't always talk.

459
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,680
I'm I'm ending.
Those are all.

460
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,720
Hillsongs.
Worship songs that we do, we do

461
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,880
some of those.
So will I, the 100 billion times

462
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,880
we've done that one.
Some Bethel songs, The goodness

463
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,280
of God.
I won't even list that other one

464
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,920
there.
It requires a wisdom to

465
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,520
determine some of these things.
You can't just say part carte

466
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,000
blanche.
No, never even the so will I saw

467
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,040
I was talking to a sincere
worship leader and they said we

468
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:09,720
will not sing that song in
church.

469
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,480
And I said why is that as I
wanted to know I respect the guy

470
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,880
and he said so will I that's a
focus on me.

471
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,280
So he was kind of taking the
same things we were and he was

472
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,560
so he's struggling with the same
things so it.

473
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,400
That's that's a recent song.
Someone said recently that they

474
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,560
we shouldn't sing so.
Yeah, he was saying that.

475
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:34,600
So I, I think that we have to
realize this is a wisdom call

476
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,160
because, but we have to start
fundamentally saying we don't

477
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,720
want to focus on ourself.
We want to describe the glories

478
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,080
of God and we want to respond to
the glories of God because we're

479
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,720
just and we want it to be
admonishment in the sense that

480
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,160
it's going to help you on Monday
morning somehow to not dive into

481
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,600
anxiety or depression or sin.
Would that person have a problem

482
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:59,520
with Rise up, O men of God?
Rise up a man of God, you're

483
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:00,920
thinking about that.
Yeah, right.

484
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,680
I'm just saying there's a.
Response there give heart and

485
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,720
soul, mind strength, serve the
King of Kings.

486
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,800
Yeah, there's a response there.
I think the so will I is just

487
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,960
saying all these things sorry of
creation.

488
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,400
I'm going to submit to the same
thing.

489
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,840
I'm going to submit to you.
Just like I feel it too, I'm

490
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,880
submitting to the truth of
reality.

491
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,640
And I'm going to they they cry
out and worship in their ways.

492
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,560
Yeah, I want to do that.
And then this at the end, the

493
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,920
last verse is like you gave your
life for others.

494
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:31,680
Yes, I'm going to do that.
Too.

495
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,920
I know that's powerful.
I think it goes back to the

496
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:40,240
heart in spirit, truth, we've
got to be accurate.

497
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,400
But what's going on in the heart
is more important than what's

498
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:49,080
going on in the mouth, you know?
But it's not unimportant what's

499
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,040
going on in the mouth.
Can the words coming out of your

500
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,400
mouth connect to what's going on
in your heart and it be pleasing

501
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,080
to God?
But if your words are pleasing

502
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,520
to God, but your heart is far
from him, you don't really see

503
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,600
the lightning bolt like you see
the lightning bolt.

504
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,160
You don't try to see the
lightning bolt.

505
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,960
It's God wants to be adored.
He wants to be valued because

506
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,480
the you can.
Here's a quote that I think's a

507
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,760
pretty good one for a worshipper
to take with him.

508
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,440
When I'm, my value is based on
what I value.

509
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,200
Your values are based on what
you.

510
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,040
I'll say more than that, I
believe that my value.

511
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,920
Is.
Based on what I value most.

512
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,440
In other words, I'm as valuable
as what I value to people.

513
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:43,160
When I'm valuing God in worship,
and I live that out on Monday

514
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,600
morning, I am glorifying the
most valuable.

515
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,280
So that's why we worship so
important.

516
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:56,200
It exercises that, right?
So should we sing a song written

517
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:01,720
by someone that has terrible
church theology?

518
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,320
You know what I mean?
But the song itself is great,

519
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,440
but the.
Song describes God.

520
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,360
That's a hard one.
Yeah.

521
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,640
We do some of that at churches.
You know, we don't overdo the

522
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,800
lot of that, though.
It shows up and I don't even

523
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:16,680
think what's who is this?
I don't either.

524
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,120
And I hear later.
Kings and I thought, oh, this is

525
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,200
great.
It just tells the story.

526
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,920
Yeah, it's great.
There's time.

527
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,920
There are times that we doctor a
song.

528
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,320
We change words, but.
Yeah, like there's this song,

529
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,480
Let us cope, ancient words or
something, you know, help us

530
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,240
cope and you change.
You know, we don't want to just

531
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,400
cope.
We want to grow through this.

532
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,280
So help.
Us grow there you go we fixed it

533
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,080
so we might we might change some
things The so will I talks about

534
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,880
all these creatures evolving in
what you meant to and we're like

535
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,560
maybe we just say living is what
you want to do yeah, we're just

536
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,080
kind of we're kind of just being
careful yeah, being careful to

537
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,240
say stuff.
I will say when I hear a song is

538
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:05,160
written by one of those
churches, I have a, an adversion

539
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,360
to it.
So it doesn't and not, maybe not

540
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,000
all the worship leaders do it at
a church.

541
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,640
We've got 3 right now.
But I'm just like, OK, I'll pass

542
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,520
that one up.
You know, although I love it,

543
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,920
maybe I really like the song
because in my heart I am

544
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,560
privately giving glory to God
when I sing that thing.

545
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,720
The effect on other people,
though, that's one of the

546
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,920
reasons people don't want to
have that song out.

547
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,920
There there's a song that we, we
used to do that caused some, you

548
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,080
know, and transparency, some
consternation with some of our

549
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,680
members in the past.
Those, those folks left.

550
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:44,400
But it's still I don't sing
anymore reckless love and I I

551
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,640
can understand why people have
an issue with it.

552
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,280
I don't personally because I I
can make it make sense and not

553
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:51,840
be.
Some powerful words.

554
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,240
There are some very powerful,
powerful words and some very

555
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,440
powerful imagery of his love for
us.

556
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,400
So I think that you can, out of
deference to people, go, you

557
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:05,480
know what, if that song really,
really bothers you and it's a

558
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,040
good reason, you got to be
careful.

559
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:08,480
There's got to be some wisdom in
that.

560
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,880
You don't want one family, you
know, just being the.

561
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,160
Yeah, there's other songs we can
sing, maybe not just descriptive

562
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,640
and describing the glory of
God's love for us.

563
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,800
But but you know, as I, as you
know, Michael, I, I thought,

564
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,760
well, Ephesians one says lavish.
So let's just, oh, the

565
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,800
overwhelming lavish love of God
and it kind of loses something,

566
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:35,160
but it's still there.
But I think it's important to

567
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:41,120
recognize the the church you're
at when they sing, If they sing

568
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,280
a lot of these songs, it may be
a problem because you know, a

569
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,200
lot of people are going to be
tuning into Hillsong.

570
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,200
And what's the other one again,
Bethel?

571
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,560
Bethel Elevation.
But but if you mix it up, Getty

572
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:56,240
songs, hymn songs, and it comes
once every 8 songs, you're not

573
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,200
pushing that church.
You're not like, this is our

574
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,400
church.
You know we're going to and

575
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,120
because you're going to go find
those songs, right?

576
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,680
And if they're in a good church,
if your church is learning

577
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:11,320
theology most by what they're
singing, problem.

578
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,000
Yeah, that's good.
But it's but you should be

579
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,640
reinforcing your theology.
But what you're singing, you

580
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,360
should be able to point to
scripture in your song, say they

581
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,960
could ruin and as far as money
goes, you got because you know,

582
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,560
every time you do a song,
there's money that goes.

583
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,640
Maybe you're trying to figure
that out last night.

584
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,760
Well, somehow they're somehow.
Figuring it out.

585
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,840
CCLI knows, we think we we're
not sure how CCLI knows anymore.

586
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,440
Yeah, because we don't sure how
they do it we.

587
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,280
Don't report it, but maybe,
maybe by singing so will I.

588
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,640
We're promoting that church.
Here I can just see the leaders

589
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,640
of Bethel just sit by their
computer and say CBC is just

590
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,480
making me written.
I'm just not sure.

591
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:51,840
Plenty of multiple of the
churches.

592
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,960
Yeah, yeah.
We do have a good mix.

593
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,880
I think, you know, the people
have come to our church that

594
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,960
wanted hymns only, and maybe
they still want hymns only, but

595
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:02,480
I think they've learned to go,
OK, we're going to get some

596
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,560
hymns.
We're going to get some Getty.

597
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,280
We're going to get some Shane
and Chain.

598
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:08,480
We're going to get, you know,
some.

599
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,640
And why do we do hymns?
Because they're important and

600
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,920
they better than most
contemporary songs.

601
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,160
Most or maybe maybe it's not
most of them or because it's a

602
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,720
lot of good song, but they
really do communicate and

603
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,200
describe the glory of God.
The hymns do and describe my

604
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,680
response to God.
So when I go on worship walks

605
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,560
like we talked of before, I
usually am doing.

606
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:38,200
Hymns I like the mix and I was
talking to Michael about this

607
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,080
too.
I feel like for me, if the

608
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,440
worship and all of y'all are
like great, perfect every time.

609
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:51,640
Like my experience and worship
usually has to do more with my

610
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,640
mindset coming in, whether it's
good or bad and be as long as

611
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,160
the worship leader's not
distracting in a bad way, which

612
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,080
is never the case of CBC.
You know, it's like, it's more

613
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:02,640
like I could be singing any
song.

614
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,240
It kind of depends on where my
head's at a little bit, you know

615
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,120
what I mean?
As long as like it's something's

616
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,719
like someone's not like licking
the cord and shocking themselves

617
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,120
or something, you know, it's
like, if it's not distracting,

618
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:15,120
it's like it's great.
It's, you know, anyway.

619
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,520
No, it's true that you're what's
going on in your heart and you

620
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:23,840
know Zach, as we grow in our
theology and our private times

621
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,159
of in connecting with God
through that theology, through

622
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:32,120
sufferings that we go through,
through trials, songs start to

623
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,679
mean more.
So your mind is actually

624
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:38,000
thinking 3 or 4 scenes where
God's been faithful, great as I

625
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,800
faithless versus just, you know,
as a 13 year old.

626
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,360
Yeah, you.
Know, yeah.

627
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,120
It's great what what other
questions we got about songs we

628
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:50,840
we cover.
I think we covered a lot of

629
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,719
stuff that I think gets asked
what people think about these

630
00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:00,440
kinds of things.
Yeah, I I think that I guess you

631
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,600
should put a bow on the Hillsong
Bethel stuff.

632
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,560
And like I was saying, maybe
this is a fault.

633
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,520
That's that's not even on my
radar.

634
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,880
I the only people I have ever
gone to like listen to an album

635
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,600
to go.
Maybe there's something new here

636
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:23,520
or City of Light and Sovereign
Grace Music those and I don't

637
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,920
know what that says or doesn't
say, but to me, I just don't

638
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,520
process that way.
So I it doesn't.

639
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,880
So I don't maybe feel the same
thing that other people might

640
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,720
see or feel the as the danger
because I would never go to a

641
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,160
Hillsong album elicit.
These have all kind of hit me

642
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,880
from other places and I've heard
it, you know, other places go.

643
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,960
Oh, that's a good song.
Maybe we should think about

644
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,920
doing that.
Yeah, I don't think they'll go

645
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,400
read their book on theology.
I hope not.

646
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,440
And I don't think if they're
going to your church and they're

647
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,320
teaching good theology and you
never sing those bad songs,

648
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:01,880
they're not going to go to those
songs.

649
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,120
They're going to.
And, and if it's a small enough

650
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,760
church, it's one of the problems
with large churches, they people

651
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,320
get lost in that.
At our church, you know what?

652
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,640
Do we have 180 or something?
Yeah, 182 between 182. 20 So

653
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,480
there's a lot of interaction,
theological interaction with

654
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:22,760
people and awareness.
If someone comes and listens to

655
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:28,120
King of Kings and then goes and
starts reading books from Bethel

656
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,200
but still comes to our church,
we're going to have some talk at

657
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:31,520
some.
Point that makes sense.

658
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,320
So I think the things it's a
legitimate to be concerned.

659
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,880
I think it is about are people
going to get taken away from the

660
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,360
truth by the Bethel?
Yeah.

661
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,680
And we're going to warn them if
they start buying into this or

662
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,720
if there's a church that
patterns after them.

663
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:55,000
That's the other thing we at at
Charleston Bible, we don't try

664
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,080
to be be a performing worship
church.

665
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,560
Right.
I think that maybe, I know we're

666
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,120
wrapping it up, but maybe we can
spend 2 minutes and talk about

667
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,880
that.
Because I've been to churches

668
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,520
where I what, especially if it's
above ABAB flat, I'm going to be

669
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,600
singing louder than most people
next to me and I'm like, no one

670
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,760
else is singing in here.
But that's not the case.

671
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,320
I I feel very comfortable
singing as loud as I want to at

672
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,000
CBC.
We're a participant.

673
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:26,960
Because we're a participant.
Performing, yeah.

674
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:32,000
Yeah, and I, I, my, my sister
leads a lot of worship in

675
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,160
churches where, where she's at.
And she was asked to fill in for

676
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:41,320
worship at a church.
And the the cue from the, you

677
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,680
know, pastor, there was like,
Hey, we, we kind of have a role.

678
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,880
If you're leading worship, your
your hand cannot like your hands

679
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,080
have to be like it.
It.

680
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,840
There were certain posture
things like hands have to be up.

681
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,280
If both your hands are down,
that's communicating wrong

682
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,480
message.
Like it was very like that was

683
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,640
like a rule that should be a.
Cue very staged.

684
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,920
Correct.
And that it's like you're kind

685
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,880
of getting these these cues.
And then with some of these

686
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,240
churches, I think you just got
to be the best guitar player

687
00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:09,800
ever, regardless of character.
We're just trying to get the

688
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,080
people on stage you can perform.
You know what I'm saying?

689
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:13,520
Oh yeah.
You're just you're bringing up

690
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:14,840
all these other questions I've
got.

691
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:23,480
What about an instrumentalist
that what what thoughts on

692
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,840
should they have a profession of
faith to be in church band?

693
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,400
Should they have maybe more than
a profession of faith?

694
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,880
Maybe they should have a stable
walk.

695
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,160
What?
Talk to us about that.

696
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:38,480
Yeah, what, what's the level of
their visibility should match in

697
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,520
their need for integrity?
Not because we're legalistic,

698
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,400
but because if someone's going
to see them play, they're going

699
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,720
to watch them live a little bit,
you know what I mean?

700
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:54,280
And it's it, you know, is it a
perfect, you know, life?

701
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,600
Where, where they at?
How, how, what do they believe

702
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,160
where they are in their faith?
I think it is important and that

703
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:06,600
I want to use worship
participation to develop like

704
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,600
people singing in different
groups or like if we do

705
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:14,200
Christmas time or whatever.
So again, it's about wisdom.

706
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,320
Sometimes we want to make rules
because we're afraid.

707
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:22,360
And I understand that if we make
a solid wall and fence, we're

708
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,560
not even afraid, right?
But.

709
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,640
We've we've already decided we
just do that.

710
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:31,320
Yeah, that's why we have leaders
that have, hopefully integrity,

711
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,120
and they're weighing things not
based on what's going to sound

712
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,920
the coolest, but what's going to
glorify God the best.

713
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,200
Right.
And you're thinking through

714
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:41,520
that.
By the way, do you sing?

715
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,960
Not well.
If your sister sings, you could

716
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:44,200
sing.
Oh.

717
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:45,880
My sister.
My sister's gifted.

718
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,200
I'm not.
You had a lead role in the.

719
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,760
I did sing a solo as a kid in
4th grade.

720
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,080
Are you?
Really not that good.

721
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:56,600
Oh, now I'm terrible.
But your sister can do it.

722
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,400
Yeah, and I and I can like, I
mean, I, I play instrument for

723
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:00,800
him.
I don't really I'm like tone

724
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,320
deaf, but it does help me if I
can like see notes.

725
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,000
Sometimes it's hard to like
follow unless it's super easy,

726
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,000
but yeah.
In other words, you can't

727
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,960
correct, you Can't Sing.
Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.

728
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:17,840
But you know, should everyone
sing to the Lord, even you, even

729
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,680
me sing right?
And and could your song be

730
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,640
better than mine?
Sometimes to the Lord?

731
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,880
Yeah, I think so.
Think so?

732
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,200
Do you think it often is?
No, that's a good answer.

733
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:29,480
I was just checking your
humility.

734
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,880
Hopefully we hopefully we've
figured out a little bit better

735
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,120
about what is true worship.
Yeah, I hope so.

736
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,640
And yeah, maybe maybe we'll get
some comments and if you have

737
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,360
questions, we can have Tim back
on and try to answer those.

738
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,200
Yeah, this has been fun so.
I don't know.

739
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:48,360
Do you remember how to get us
out of?

740
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:49,920
Here you have to help me out
again.

741
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,920
Sing the phrase.
Sing it again.

742
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:56,200
That's our take.
We should do like it's trio like

743
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,160
that's you know, like you know.
So you want to just get your

744
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:04,840
match?
Yeah, that's our take and it OK.

745
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:10,160
So you you'll be you ready.
That's our take.

746
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,200
Thanks for listening to Take
Two.

747
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,520
Find us wherever you find
podcasts and on YouTube for

748
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,240
those who want to watch our
video cast.