Cults | Is Jehovah’s Witness a Christian Denomination? Examining God, Christ, and Salvation

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We're back with the cults.
If this is your first cult that

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you're turning tuning into,
maybe you are Jehovah's Witness

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and and YouTube said, hey you,
you should watch this.

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Just to be clarified, we're
using the word cult in its

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formal sense, which means it's a
religion set of beliefs,

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practices that would claim
outwardly to be Christian, but

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is not actually a Christian
denomination.

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And obviously that's our take.
But you know, you may, you may

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disagree.
If you disagree, feel free to

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comment and tell us how we're
wrong.

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So we know that cult can
sometimes be used to being

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taught, like the Charles Manson
type of stuff.

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Or.
And then it can sometimes be

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confused with the word occult,
which kind of refers to like the

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Satanic and the, the, the
witches and stuff, which we

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might talk about.
But we'll we'll probably talk

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about the near Christian things
first and then we'll see where

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this goes.
That's good because really what

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we're getting at is not, you
know, not that they're, you

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know, quote UN quote good
people, more moral people.

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We're not saying they don't they
use their Bible or don't use

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their Bible, not that they
aren't really genuine and

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sincere, but I like that or
Christian, especially this claim

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to being I'm a Christian, right.
Let's let's tease, tease that

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out a little bit and see if.
Because Muslims believe in

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Christ.
That's right.

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Yeah, and but they wouldn't call
themselves Christian, right?

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So yeah, So similar to our
Mormonism episode, we're going

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to talk about Jehovah's Witness,
kind of draw some doctrinal

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statements from their own
literature, and then talk about

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why those doctrinal statements
from their own literature would

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exclude them from being
Christian.

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Or if they are Christian, then
what is classically considered

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Christian is not 'cause we're
saying they they can't both be

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underneath that umbrella term
because the differences are big

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enough.
Yeah, hopefully it will be clear

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that I think it was in the
Mormonism episode that whether

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you think Christian or not,
these are two different things.

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That part is clear.
So you're ready to do this?

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Yeah, let's take it to the next
level.

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Let's fire up that twanga music.
From the hearts of the Low

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Country in South Carolina.
It's the Take Two podcast where

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we take theology to the next
level.

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Jehovah's Witnesses.
Maybe you've maybe you are a

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Jehovah's Witness.
If you're not, maybe you've had

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one knock on your door.
I don't think they're doing that

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as much these days.
Yeah, I, I see them like setting

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up shop.
Yeah, yeah, glass knocking on

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doors, but like I'm setting up
shop right, right at different

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places and I see them quite a
bit.

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And and if you are in the
Jehovah's Witness, let let us

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know because from what I
understand this is going to

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sound pejorative.
I don't know how else to put it.

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Maybe not points merit, but I
think you build up some type of

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merit.
For doing this.

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By doing those things and it
helps increase your odds of

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being in the 144,000 by doing
that stuff maybe.

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Yeah, I wonder.
That's my understanding, but if

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that's wrong, let us know.
However, we're going to talk

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about it, but I wonder about the
math aspect of it where like.

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It's like stop having babies.
The more, and I also say

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Jehovah's Witnesses, I think
I've talked about this before.

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They really do have, when you
think of things like quote UN

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quote, morality and good works.
They, they, I have a lot of

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patients that are like shut in
and homebound and man, they

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can't say nice enough things
about like, hey, during COVID,

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no one would do anything.
Jehovah's Witness help me move,

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help me.
And like they have, they've

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really figured out early on in
COVID like the virtual like

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Bible studies and stuff.
And people are like, Oh, I'm on

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my, my church doing a Bible
study and at least during COVID,

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a high numb.
It was like 40 or 50% was like

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Jehovah's Witness.
It was like, well, I thought it

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was like just their church and
it was like, no, it was like

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Jehovah's Witness.
Like I don't know how they they

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not maybe not cornered the
market, but on the older adult

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population really have an end
somehow.

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Unlike my exposure to Mormons,
my exposure to Jehovah's, so

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vast exposure, I would say as
about as big as you can in

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Southern for me.
Yeah, I grew up with a family

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that was a Mormon.
And then in the Navy I taught

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and like I said, I think maybe 2
Thursdays ago, a lot of Mormons

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were at the nuclear powertrain
command that I taught with.

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And so I got a lot of, I have
very little exposure to

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Jehovah's Witnesses.
In fact, one family that I grew

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up, and they probably were not
the best exemplar of what it

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meant to be Jehovah's Witness.
So I, I that's just, probably

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just an exposure issue for me.
So I just don't have the yeah, I

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don't person to person exposure
is that I did with Mormons.

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I'm in the same but I have the
less exposure than than you on

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both of these.
So I I guess the best place to

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look is like their authority.
Like where are they drawing

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their dogma from so we can speak
accurately?

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Absolutely so.
All right, So Jehovah's

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Witnesses are defined and
enforced by the Watchtower Bible

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and Tract Society, and they kind
of have a certain look to them.

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If you ever seen them, they have
a certain, you know, where their

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pictures and stuff are drawn.
So once you kind of you can see

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something.
Oh, this kind of looks like it's

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from that publication teaching
the 40 is centralized.

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It's not creedal or historically
rooted in early Christianity.

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So it's really like with that
organization.

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Yeah, that.
Organization holds a lot of

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clout.
It's very important.

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It's not like in Protestantism,
it's like, hey, I like RC

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Sproul, I like John Pye, but
it's Watchtower.

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You gotta be, you gotta be like
locked into that.

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You can't.
You know that's like the thing,

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right?
Yeah, yeah.

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And it they, what we'll get down
to is they present themself that

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organization as necessary for
salvation here.

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I'm gonna say a name again
recently that I haven't said,

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but Greg Cole has this question.
He's like, did Jesus come here

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to create an organization or an
Organism?

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Like what's the difference?
And he, he normally says this in

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relationship to Catholicism,
'cause you know, Catholics will

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say, hey, he founded this
organization to which he's, and

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I'm like, no, he created this,
this Organism, this thing that

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called the church that grows.
And it's a church, this organic

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thing that does all the things
it's supposed to do.

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And but Jehovah's Witness would
say no, it's this organization.

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So when we're having this
broader discussion of, you know,

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cops of a Christian, are they a
Christian?

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At some point, we'll probably
get into it more.

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They're going to say, you know,
faith is one thing, association

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with this organization is an
additional thing that that is

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important.
Correct.

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Yeah, not only important,
necessary.

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All right, so the Watchtower
February 15th 1983 says to

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receive everlasting life in the
earthly paradise, we must

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identify that organization and
serve God as.

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So it's in there.
Yeah, to.

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Receive everlasting life in the
earthly paradise.

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Yeah, there you go.
So salvation is explicitly

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identified with that
organization.

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It's not merely just faith in
Christ.

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And so that's a huge, huge
thing.

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And now we'll just dive down
into some of their doctrines.

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So the doctrine of God, this is
where a lot of the, you know, if

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we're going to say you're not a
Christian, you're going to have

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to hit one of these core beliefs
where we think that is, you

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know, you know, potentially A
heresy if you don't get it

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right.
And so a lot of them are going

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to deal with the nature of who
God is, because if we think if

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you get this wrong, then we
can't really be in the same

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religion.
And so they publicly acknowledge

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a doctrinal divergent.
So this is from their website,

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jw.org.
It says in a number of ways, we

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are different from other
religious groups that are called

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Christian.
For example, we believe that the

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Bible teaches that Jesus is the
son of God, not part of a

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Trinity, similar to what we
heard last week.

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Yeah.
Pretty explicit.

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The follow up here says and I
quote with the Trinity doctrine

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is not found in the Bible.
Should you believe in the

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Trinity might be part of their
like teaching, you know, kind of

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an.
Article called Should you

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believe in the Trinity?
Yeah.

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So the key point is this is not
secondary.

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This is a primary thing.
Just like we saw with the the

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the Mormonisms Trinity is
foundational to historic

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Christianity.
I don't know how you read

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through the epistles and come
away with the fact that Jesus is

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a God or the fact that Jesus
allowed people to worship him.

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Yeah.
That, that's a tough one.

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It's pretty much when it, when
it's not explicitly laid out in

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the New Testament, it you, you
can be OK.

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This is actually assumed it's so
yeah.

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Yeah, and if you've ever read
Mere Christianity, I think CS

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Lewis does a good job of, you
know, saying hey, liar, Lord, or

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what was it, liar, lunatic or
Lord?

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And so it's like you can't
really put Jesus on this less

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than God pedestal, but still
keep him as a good and sane

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person 'cause he allowed people
worship him.

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He made claims, He said pray in
my, you know, pray in my name.

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So.
So that that begs the question

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is if Jesus is like, what you
gonna do with the Holy Spirit?

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Yeah, so it gets even kind of
worse.

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The Holy Spirit's not even a
person.

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It's described as an impersonal
force.

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So from that same article,
should you believe in Trinity,

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it says the Holy Spirit is not a
person, but Jehovah's active

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force.
So it's kind of like Jedi's.

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Yeah, contrasted with some of
these creeds where if you read

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them, it's just like, it's like
sometimes you read the creeds

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and you're like, this is pretty
belabored.

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Like we're like, and it's like,
well, that's that's why, you

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know.
You need to.

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Iron out there's you can't read
some of these and and walk away

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being like is the Holy Spirit
equal with God the Father?

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It's like you kind of it's like
it's in there.

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It's.
Explicit.

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Alright, so the doctrine of
Christ.

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Here's our another breaking
point jw.org states we believe

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that the Bible teaches that
Jesus is the son of God, not

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part of the Trinity.
Jesus is not almighty God.

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Jesus is not Jehovah or Yahweh
Jesus is not Co eternal with the

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father.
Jesus is subordinate in nature.

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And so we know, if you're
familiar with the the

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Watchtower, they have their own
translation of the Bible.

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And so the Greek scholars, even
Greek scholars who don't

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profess, who are not Christian
would would say, you know, there

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are articles in front of words
that mean different things in

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Greek than what they do here.
So we're not, we're not saying

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that there's not an article in
Greek, but the way the article

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is there, it doesn't translate
into how they have it, but how

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they would translate.
John 11 is in the beginning was

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the Word and the Word was a God.
And if you go through it, they

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explicitly change a bunch of
scripture throughout the New

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Testament where it's clear that
Jesus is being made out to be

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God by, you know, Paul or Peter
or something.

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Or Jesus makes some claims,
'cause they're, they're trying

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to, you know, kind of redact, I
guess is the the word.

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It's so interesting because I
would think, you know, part of

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their thinking would be like
every other Bible translation is

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part of this like conspiracy.
And I know a lot of Bible

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translations like affiliate
themselves with a certain maybe

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a certain denomination or
something like that.

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Kind of, you know, like the CSPI
feel like is like so yeah, yeah,

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it's like all, you know.
And so you can see some of that,

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but it is crazy that even like
obscure Bible translations, like

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when it comes to John one or
something, it's it's like no

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00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,760
one's in this corner where they
would almost have to say they

224
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,240
have like some secret knowledge
or something like that, you

225
00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,400
know?
Jesus and Michael the Archangel,

226
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,360
they say, wow, all right, Clay,
you must be jealous, witness so,

227
00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:07,320
so when we you can look back in
our archives, we had Clay on and

228
00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,680
we talked about Jesus and
Michael the Archangel and I, I,

229
00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,800
I tried to over and over again
you.

230
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,160
Did you did, Yeah.
I say we are not making the same

231
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,200
claim that Jehovah's Witnesses
are.

232
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,640
We are not saying that Jesus was
it was merely an Angel.

233
00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,000
We know that in an Old Testament
that whenever it says the Angel

234
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,040
of the Lord was there that was a
Christophany.

235
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:32,160
And so we were saying that
whenever that the we were

236
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,680
considering the possibility that
whenever the Old Testament

237
00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:39,680
speaks of Michael the Archangel,
that would be speed the the

238
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,880
proper name for the Angel of the
Lord, because it could be a more

239
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,120
of a title than a name because
Michael means who is like God.

240
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:49,400
Is that a question or is it a
statement?

241
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,120
You know, so just to
differentiate what we've done in

242
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,560
the past, but for Jehovah's
Witnesses, it's not that they're

243
00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:58,760
elevating Michael the Archangel
to divinity.

244
00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,360
They are demoting Jesus to a
mere Angel.

245
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,840
Because if Jesus is a mere
Angel, not eternally divine and

246
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,400
certainly not equal with God,
the Father kind of make makes

247
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,360
their case for them, yeah?
So primary source from the

248
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,440
Watchtower it says Jehovah's
Witnesses have taught that

249
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,840
Michael is a heavenly name for
the only begotten Son of God.

250
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:25,720
And then also from the new
Watchtower translation it says

251
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,680
Hebrews 113.
But with reference to which of

252
00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:31,760
the angels has he ever said, sit
at my right hand?

253
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,280
The implied answer is none if
Jesus is new.

254
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:39,480
New World.
Translation.

255
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:41,360
Yeah.
No, no, no.

256
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,280
You're.
Yeah, so if that's true, then

257
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,960
Jesus is not equal with God, no?
Great, great.

258
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:49,440
And it's probably worth pointing
out too.

259
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:55,160
Even I would say in most of our
translations of Hebrew, one

260
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,560
might not be too entirely
different than this anyway, you

261
00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:01,720
know what I mean?
Yeah, we're just saying that

262
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,440
this Hebrew's translation, this
Hebrew's verse, clearly makes a

263
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,920
distinction between divinity and
mere angels.

264
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,680
And if Jesus is a mere Angel,
then he's not divine.

265
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:13,360
Nailed it.
Great.

266
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:15,880
So what else?
What else are we talking about?

267
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:17,160
Where?
Where are some more differences?

268
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:22,480
Alright, so the glory of God,
Isaiah 42, eight says I am

269
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,640
Yahweh, Jehovah.
Different ways of pronouncing

270
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,200
that To no one else shall I give
my own glory.

271
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,760
Isaiah 4811 to no one else shall
I give my own glory, comparing

272
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:39,560
that to John 17 five, glorify me
alongside yourself with the

273
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,480
glory that I had alongside you
before the world was this is

274
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,360
Jesus talking.
Philippians 210 says at the name

275
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:52,560
of Jesus every knee should bend.
So if Jehovah doesn't give his

276
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:57,360
glory to anyone, yet he
glorifies the sun and commands

277
00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,840
universal homage, homage,
homage.

278
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,160
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, I never thought about.

279
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,440
Yeah.
Either Scripture can contradicts

280
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,960
itself or Jesus shares in
Jehovah's identity.

281
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:12,400
I.
Want to point this out maybe I'm

282
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:13,960
crazy.
This is don't want to take us

283
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,720
too off topic here.
I feel like Jehovah.

284
00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,280
It was like all the rage growing
up.

285
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,320
The name.
Yes, and now Yahweh is all the

286
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,280
rage like recently.
What's the deal?

287
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,200
Yeah.
Do they do they need to like

288
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,560
rebrand?
Oh, dude, the Jehovah, should it

289
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,840
be Yahweh's witnesses?
Yeah, I catch up with they

290
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,040
adopted, they adopted the well,
I think they would say Jehovah

291
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,480
is the true name of God and.
Yahweh would be like an

292
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,120
incorrect way to I think they
probably.

293
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,480
Just jumped on the bandwagon
when Jehovah was, was the raging

294
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,760
culture because it's the, I
think it's like a German

295
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,320
transliteration of the name or
something.

296
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,120
And then we just anglicize the
German word.

297
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,680
I I think that's how we get
Jehovah, but I think from what

298
00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:58,360
I've learned, Yahweh is like
Yahweh is the is.

299
00:15:58,520 --> 00:15:59,720
Closer.
Closer.

300
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,440
Yeah, it's not as.
Yeah, that makes sense.

301
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,080
Anyway, carry on.
Alright, so the savior question.

302
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,880
So these are all kind of just
mini proofs that what they're

303
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,080
saying is wrong or different
ways that we think the Bible

304
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,400
shows that that that the
differences between classical

305
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,920
Christianity and them.
Isaiah 4311 says I am Yahweh and

306
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,600
besides me there is no Savior.
I I guess maybe we're choosing

307
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,400
the New World Translation here
because we put it on Jehovah.

308
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,320
Oh yeah, I gotcha too.
I gotcha.

309
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,680
I keep, I keep changing it from
Jehovah to Yahweh, 'cause that's

310
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,120
what I'm more familiar with, but
I'll put it in Jehovah terms.

311
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,800
It says I'm Jehovah.
Besides me there's no savior.

312
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:38,200
Isaiah 4521 says a righteous God
and a savior, there being none

313
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,160
excepting me.
Now in Luke 21 it says there was

314
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,760
born to you a Savior who is
Christ the Lord.

315
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,360
Acts 412 There is not another
name under heaven which by you,

316
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,520
by which you must be saved.
Titus 14 says Jesus Christ our

317
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,680
Savior.
So Jehovah says there's no

318
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,480
savior beside him.
Jesus is repeatedly called the

319
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,400
Savior of the text forces an
identity question.

320
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,840
And you got to do something like
with all these things, you got

321
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,720
to be like, OK, the glory of
God, what do you have to have at

322
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,800
least an explanation for that?
Same thing for this, the Savior

323
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,680
is like everyone can be a
savior.

324
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:17,000
You know these kind of things.
Isaiah 4424 I Jehovah stretching

325
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:21,760
out the heavens by myself.
John 1/3 says all things came

326
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,960
into existence threw him apart
from him, not even one thing

327
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,800
came into existence.
So this if you are Christian.

328
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:31,840
Even if you can see you
shouldn't concede 11 but just go

329
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,000
a couple more verses.
Yeah, I wouldn't argue over one

330
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:35,760
one you don't have to concede.
You can say we can agree to

331
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,920
disagree, but look at 1-3 and
then you, you've got your, your,

332
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:47,240
your, the, the Basically, if the
word that became flesh is Jesus,

333
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,480
and the Word created all things
and all things came into being

334
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,120
through him, nothing came into
being except through him, then

335
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,040
Jesus could not have come into
being.

336
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,400
So that's a good test.
Born again and the 44144

337
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:05,440
thousands, Jehovah's Witnesses
teach that only 144,000 are born

338
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,760
again.
The rest live eternally on

339
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,720
Earth.
Kind of weird.

340
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:14,160
That is interesting.
I mean, we got some sources.

341
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:20,080
So Watchtower says that the new
birth applies to the 144

342
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,760
anointed.
That's from February 15th, 1998.

343
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,560
Contrast historic Christianity
would say all believers are born

344
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,800
again Jehovah's Witness theology
most or not.

345
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,840
Yeah, I wonder too.
I make this thing.

346
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:35,800
That's my modern cults class.
We talk about 7th Day

347
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:41,440
Adventists, I think.
And maybe maybe I didn't, maybe

348
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:42,800
it was Jehovah's Witnesses, I
don't know.

349
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,560
But there was something with the
144,000 where I should do some

350
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:48,800
fact checking.
I'll do some fact checking a

351
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,920
little bit where like doctrine
changed a little bit once like

352
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,480
we once mathematically we're
like gonna hit this like things

353
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,400
change.
It might be a, a lesser cult or

354
00:18:58,400 --> 00:18:59,640
something like that, you know?
Yeah.

355
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,080
I think with Jehovah's Witness
there was Maybe I'm getting this

356
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:10,000
mixed up with Christian Science.
So maybe, yeah, but there was

357
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,040
something about around World War
One, world two that things were

358
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,360
going to change real big and
then that didn't and they had to

359
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:20,200
redo their their doctrine.
But yeah, so they're having some

360
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:21,640
doctrinal changes.
All right.

361
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,440
Salvation not by faith alone.
Primary source, the choice

362
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:31,000
assuring life and truth, peace
and security that ask why is

363
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:35,080
faith alone not enough?
So for them, salvation requires

364
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:36,440
faith.
OK.

365
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:42,840
Plus obedience plus endurance,
plus organizational loyalty.

366
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,960
That one's.
Weird to me, but I guess they

367
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,680
would say like.
If you're not part of the OR.

368
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,000
Something like, I mean like
that.

369
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,440
Do they have a differentiation?
Like the church is different

370
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,760
from the Watchtower Society.
I would think that they would.

371
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,480
I think they would argue like
this.

372
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:57,880
You got to be a member of the
church.

373
00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,480
Yeah, we are the church.
OK, Yeah, yeah.

374
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,000
So it feels weird to be the
organization.

375
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,440
That's like weird.
But I get it kind.

376
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:10,840
Of I mean so, so you I guess
Jehovah's Witnesses are in the

377
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,680
Bible too, in Galatians 18.
There you go there.

378
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,040
You go.
Where Paul says if there's any

379
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,640
other gospel then because this
is not part of the gospel.

380
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,480
And and to your point, the
primary source, the title of the

381
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,720
article, is Why is faith alone
not enough?

382
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,920
So they're openly admitting like
faith alone is not going to get

383
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,960
you there.
The soul in the afterlifejw.org

384
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,760
says we do not believe that the
soul is immortal.

385
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,200
Primary source of soul is the
person himself.

386
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,680
Reasoning from the scriptures on
the soul death is unconscious

387
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:52,480
non existence.
This reshapes resurrection and

388
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,560
final judgment theology.
Paul said to be asked from the

389
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,760
bodies to be present with the
Lord.

390
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:04,360
Yeah, that's, yeah, that, that
probably have to reinterpret a

391
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,440
handful of scriptures there like
that.

392
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:07,880
You have to, I don't know.
I'm trying to think like what

393
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:08,480
you would say.
Yeah.

394
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,760
Yeah, yeah.
The cross and the blood.

395
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,760
Jesus was executed upon an
upright stake, not a cross, not

396
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,840
a huge deal.
I mean, I don't think we would

397
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,080
say that you can't be a, a
believer if you think it's

398
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,960
upright stake.
They also have some odd notions

399
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,720
about blood transfusion.
Not, again, not a, not a deal

400
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,840
breaker.
You can have those and still be

401
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,320
a Christian.
So our final assessment by

402
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,720
classical Christian criteria,
Jehovah's Witness theology

403
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,560
denies the Trinity.
We looked at that.

404
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:47,400
So there's God the Father, there
is his supernatural action and

405
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,520
and that is just a force of him.
That's the Holy Spirit, not a

406
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:57,040
separate person.
There is Christ who is an Angel

407
00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:01,640
and a created being, Michael the
Archangel.

408
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,000
I guess they would say Michael
the Archangel became Incarnate.

409
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,040
I I guess so I.
Think that they argue that

410
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:15,800
Michael the Archangel was the
first created thing and then he

411
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:21,440
created everything else on
behalf of God and then he came

412
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:26,240
and lived and died.
So for us, they deny A bodily

413
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,560
resurrection for all of us that
they redefine salvation to be

414
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,360
works.
They would say it's faith plus

415
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:36,080
works plus endurance plus this.
You know, right, Standing with

416
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:41,040
the organization restricts new
birth to the 140%.

417
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:45,080
That like born again is a small
subset when it's some of being

418
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:46,720
born again.
Yeah, that's interesting to me.

419
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,320
And it ties salvation to
organizational membership.

420
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:52,400
So we talked about this.
So this might be an episode for

421
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,600
a different podcast, but I would
be interested in in going down

422
00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,240
the annihilationism trail since
they clearly believe that where

423
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:05,000
it's like, you know, judgment
destroyed, you know, like a fire

424
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,240
symbolic, not like an eternal,
you know, or it's like a, you

425
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,880
know, I.
Think if you're like bad you are

426
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:18,480
annihilated, if you are good but
not born again you live lifeout

427
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:23,000
on earth and then 144,000.
Actually born.

428
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,960
Again, who live with him
forever.

429
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,640
Think that's how it breaks.
Down I, I, I think, I think that

430
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,440
makes sense, but all I have to
say, I would like to do an

431
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,880
episode at some point just on
annihilationism, not outside

432
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,800
Jehovah's Witnesses because I
know that's like within

433
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,640
Protestantism, that's a thing
that's like, hey, maybe this or

434
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,120
not, you know, it's talked about
debated more than maybe it

435
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:44,960
should be and.
We haven't I I get so confused,

436
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,720
'cause I think we've talked
about doing this.

437
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,080
Yeah.
Oh, oh, 'cause it recently came

438
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,240
up because of Kirk Cameron.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

439
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:52,000
that's right.
Yeah.

440
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,120
So I think I may have even
started prepping notes for that,

441
00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:57,160
but.
This would be because the other

442
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:02,520
question teaser for the other
podcast is, I mean, the question

443
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,960
is how big of a deal is it is
really?

444
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,240
Is this like?
Is this like orthodox?

445
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,480
Like is it like I?
Think it's probably second tier.

446
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:18,880
Yeah, it's I'd tell you maybe
like 1.5 tier.

447
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,040
Is it Tier 1?
Is it Tier 2?

448
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,960
Yeah, it's like probably it's
important the problem.

449
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,440
Is it makes what the atheist
believe true?

450
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,440
I'm gonna die when I go out of
existence.

451
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,960
And and not if that's the truth,
then that's what we should be

452
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,360
telling people.
But it it seems like there's

453
00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:42,760
warnings in Scripture that are
bigger than than that, yeah.

454
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,280
Yeah, it it is.
It is interesting.

455
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:46,280
So yeah.
Future episodes.

456
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:46,560
Sorry.
Yeah.

457
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,840
Yeah.
Nice, nice discourses.

458
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,640
All right.
So, so the differences are the

459
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,640
identity of God, identity of
Christ, the nature of salvation.

460
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,880
And these are not I, I, we
could, I mean, in theory, Zach

461
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,480
and I could be wrong and
Jehovah's Witnesses could be

462
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,440
right.
So we disagree with him and

463
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,640
we're not.
We're trying to say why we're.

464
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,160
It's different.
It's not Christian.

465
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,920
It's not, it's not a
denomination of Christianity.

466
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,440
Yeah.
Yeah, the the differences are so

467
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:24,920
vast, like fundamental Trinity,
God, Christ's salvation.

468
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:30,160
Like if you're going to boil
down Christianity in a nutshell,

469
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,320
shell, Protestantism in a
nutshell, vastly different on

470
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:39,160
these major tenants all.
Right, anything else to say on

471
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,240
Jehovah's Witnesses, man, I
should call them and like say

472
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,800
and give them your name and
address about Hey, we're really

473
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,320
interested.
Could you send someone by to to

474
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,840
talk to us and then then you
could witness to them?

475
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,600
I'll just I play play this
podcast.

476
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,120
CACLA Yeah.
And I would be interested in for

477
00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:57,600
the Mormonism and the Jehovah's
Witness.

478
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,000
Like I would love to get
feedback from a Jehovah's

479
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,560
Witness and be like, Hey, this
is not what we meant.

480
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,640
Or I'd be I or, you know, you
know, that kind of thing.

481
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,400
Right.
Well, it and we were quoting

482
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,360
maybe it not as explicitly, but
we were quoting from their

483
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:15,240
primary source document.
So maybe, maybe you know, it's

484
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,480
possible.
Like sometimes atheists will

485
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,040
quote.
Something to take you.

486
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,680
Out way out of context 2.
Different.

487
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,560
You can't eat shrimp.
What are we doing?

488
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:23,040
Yeah, you.
Know.

489
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,200
Yeah.
So yeah, if we've done that, if

490
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,680
our if our sources that quoted
your sources got your sources

491
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,960
wrong, then let's know, yeah.
It's great and and part of me, I

492
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,680
don't know how much we want to
get out, but part of me is

493
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,240
interested.
What if we did another episode

494
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,560
or two?
I don't I don't know if the

495
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,880
other cults are as prominent.
You know what I mean?

496
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,520
Like it's more like.
Yeah, I don't know of very many

497
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,320
Christian Scientists these days.
Yeah, maybe they, maybe they

498
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:50,280
exist.
Yeah.

499
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,560
So right not.
Scientology isn't that the

500
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,160
Dianetics and it had like the
the lava and the.

501
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:01,680
I think you're right.
You have like thetans, you have

502
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,320
like a radar and you're like
you've got 1000 thetans you get

503
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,440
for if you give me.
I don't know if this out is in

504
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,880
my mind.
It's like if you pay $2,000,000

505
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,280
you like advance up to the next
level and you.

506
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:16,080
Know you can get this maybe?
Do you know what mini chlorians

507
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,080
are?
But sounds.

508
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:19,920
Sounds good, Yeah, sounds.
Good.

509
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,800
It's our company uses like I was
trained like our managerial

510
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,400
training is based off a guy
named Ron L Hubbard.

511
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,960
Oh yeah.
Very obviously very connected

512
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,680
with Scientology.
And so a lot of our management

513
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,760
structure is based on like this
terminology and stuff that he

514
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,000
came up with about how you're
supposed to manage people, how

515
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,960
you know these kind of things.
So does.

516
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,160
It work.
Hey, he found he ran a cult with

517
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:49,600
it definitely works and.
That's cult in the informal

518
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,520
sense.
There you go.

519
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,080
Well, yeah, What else you got on
Jehovah's Witnesses?

520
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:55,720
I.
Think that's it.

521
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,560
I think we're ready to go to our
final take.

522
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,760
Dude, last take, what are we
talking about?

523
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,080
I don't know, I thought I I did
think about something and I

524
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,160
immediately forgot so.
Those, those are the best, you

525
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,560
know.
Got thoughts?

526
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:14,800
And then they just evaporated.
Yeah, I didn't have some dreams

527
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,040
of late.
Wow.

528
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,800
What are we dreaming about?
I dreamt that I was in this

529
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,880
field almost like the the
gladiator field, you know, like

530
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,120
the wheat and stuff.
We were going out to war.

531
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,240
Maybe this has to do with, you
know, we talked last episode

532
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,800
about some of our New Year's
resolutions and maybe me

533
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,880
counting food was on my mind or
something.

534
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,880
But I was like, all ready to go.
And they're like, yeah, no,

535
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,880
you're you're too out of shape
to go do this.

536
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,840
We're we're protecting for.
War, you're saying?

537
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:44,560
Like, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

538
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,360
But then I was like, I was
arguing like, no, it's like, you

539
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:52,160
know, like that October air when
it's just like cool and crisp.

540
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,560
It's like I was like, no, no,
I'm I this is like I'm built

541
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,760
like a Viking.
This is like, this is my, this

542
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,800
is my time.
But but yeah, I don't, I don't,

543
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,800
I don't know why that.
Dream I I wish I dreamt more.

544
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,800
I just don't.
I cannot hold on to my dreams.

545
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,120
I have not dreamt lately
anything like make any dream.

546
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,920
You you think you go into REM
sleep, you just don't remember

547
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:14,920
them.
Yeah, Yeah.

548
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,120
I think I just don't remember
them.

549
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,600
I think that's weird.
Yeah.

550
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:18,920
Do you you remember like most of
your dreams?

551
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,320
I I don't.
Know that I remember, I don't.

552
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:21,800
Even know that I dreamt, but I,
I.

553
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,960
I remember remembering them.
Does that make sense?

554
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:26,840
Yeah.
I I I got.

555
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,200
You because you know when you're
sleeping, there's two things

556
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,240
going on.
There's a chemical that's that's

557
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,200
going on in your head that stops
you from your muscles from doing

558
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:40,200
stuff.
That's right.

559
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:40,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it kind.

560
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,880
Of paralyzes you, so if you've
ever woken up and you can't move

561
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,400
and people will like attribute
that to like a demonic thing.

562
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,200
Probably not.
It's yeah, it's just that that

563
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,400
chemical you woke up before your
body got that chemical out of

564
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,720
your brain.
But normally I think a shot of

565
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,400
like adrenaline like clears that
out, but maybe for some people

566
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:01,920
that's it doesn't clear as fast
the.

567
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:08,600
Only time I ever dream is like I
wake up at like 6:00 or 7:00.

568
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,440
I'm like, I'm gonna go back, I'm
gonna sleep for like 30 more

569
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,160
minutes and then I know I can
dream.

570
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:13,560
But other than that, it's like I
just don't.

571
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,800
I don't even remember that I had
a dream, you know?

572
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,360
Yeah, yeah.
So, you know, I woke up.

573
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:26,120
This is a this is a little bit
more of a a maybe close to TMI,

574
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:27,480
but I'll try to keep it out.
TMI.

575
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:33,480
I woke up the so I was having
this another dream that like I

576
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,480
was being itched around my
derriere like something and I

577
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,320
was like I was dreaming and I
finally woke up and then I was

578
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,760
like, no, there really is
something.

579
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:49,320
It's like I I reached my box and
it's like this, this it's called

580
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,360
a carpet beetle.
You know what these are?

581
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:56,040
No, so we bought some lamps from
Big Lots and right under that we

582
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,080
got some carpet beetles.
They're like tiny, tiny beetles.

583
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,480
They're not huge.
They're not a big deal.

584
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,480
Like we get like regular pest
control and and stuff.

585
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,800
But every now and then, like
they'll we'll see them and I

586
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,560
like the little thing, but but
they, they eat like natural

587
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,960
fibers and stuff.
So I can get them, but but the

588
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,320
numbers are never big enough.
So anyways, the point of this

589
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,400
story is, you know, I, I killed
the little carpet bee and went

590
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,680
back to sleep.
But I was telling my family

591
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:27,880
about this, and then I started
getting ads on my phone about

592
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,640
pinworms, which, you know,
pinworms are like I've.

593
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,560
Seen a lot of stuff lately about
pinworms.

594
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,840
Yeah, so I've, I've been getting
ads about pinworms.

595
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,040
I'm like, my phone has listened
to me talk.

596
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,960
Like, there's no way it gave me
that ad.

597
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,160
Yeah.
Because like, you know, it's

598
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,280
crazy.
I don't like any of that, yeah,

599
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:46,840
either.
And I was like, what do we do?

600
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,360
Like.
Dude, pinworms.

601
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,480
Yeah, I'm trying to, I've for a
long time trying to figure out

602
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,360
what's wrong with Joshua's got
like skin severe allergies, like

603
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,040
on this medication, like nothing
works.

604
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,600
Also, did I, did I talk about
measles on this podcast at all?

605
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,480
No.
So he's not vaccinated for

606
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,120
measles.
There's like an outbreak in

607
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,280
South Carolina, mostly upstate
creeping on.

608
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,440
We have like over 1000 cases,
you know, so I'm like, yeah,

609
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,560
it'd be great to get him
vaccinated from measles, but he

610
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,000
can't cause of the medication
he's on.

611
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,840
He's like not able to get
vaccines at any capacity.

612
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,920
And you start like look at stuff
and ever since I started like

613
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,680
Googling stuff then now on now
all these ads for like pin like

614
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,480
all of these like random things,
you get flushed out of your

615
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,840
system, you know, and get on
this and maybe it's this or

616
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,200
whatever it is, you know, so, so
if you.

617
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,160
Look at the chart for measles
death.

618
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,920
It starts.
Plummeting before the vaccine's

619
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,200
available.
Have you seen this?

620
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,400
This is what the anti vaxters
will point to the So Baxters.

621
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,760
I'm using those terms broadly.
So yeah, I'm just saying people

622
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:52,280
who are strongly for vaccines
will say look at this chart and

623
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,920
the we've gotten deaths to I
guess 'cause people used to die

624
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:56,840
from it.
Correct.

625
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,520
It's like I've read like one in
five people who would be like, I

626
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,880
see like maybe not die from it,
but be like hospitalized or

627
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,280
whatever.
Maybe you know, but.

628
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:10,120
From what I understand, again,
I'm yeah that that's started to

629
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,080
plunge before we ever had the
vaccine before the.

630
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,200
Question is there there's
something else that like with

631
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,160
healthcare or like you can like?
Healthcare, if you don't get

632
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:22,000
sick, we as a population got
more resistant to it.

633
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,960
It, you know, mutates something
to a less viral, you know, less.

634
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,320
I don't know, no.
That's true, Yeah.

635
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:31,080
Yeah.
Who knows?

636
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,440
I know nothing.
Nothing makes sense.

637
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,160
You know what I mean?
The whole world's upside down.

638
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,440
All of this, like, Epstein file
stuff is just, like, insane.

639
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,760
It's like everything is crazy.
So.

640
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,640
Dark.
I've had some conversations with

641
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:48,840
ChatGPT about some of the what
appears to be coded terms in the

642
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,760
Epstein files and chat TBT
vehemently says, no, you can't

643
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,040
make that connection.
And I like I had this when this

644
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:57,320
conversation when it first came
out.

645
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,080
So just today I was I went back
to that thread.

646
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,200
I was like, Hey, do you want to
search the web and recant what

647
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,360
you said or have your coding
overlords, you know, kept you?

648
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,320
He's like, I don't have coding
overlords.

649
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:11,880
I do have guidelines.
And it keeps like saying, you

650
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,159
know, unless you have a witness
who like testifies that these

651
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:18,199
what these I was like, well, we
do know that there was a

652
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:21,360
pedophile sex ring dude.
And there are a whole bunch of

653
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,400
emails that say these words in
very weird ways.

654
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,440
And people have put together
like, OK, that makes sense for

655
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,280
this to be this.
It makes sense for this to be

656
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,920
this really bad.
Really.

657
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,360
Really.
Really bad stuff.

658
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,040
I, I mean, I don't even want to
speak I.

659
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:40,560
Know.
This stuff 'cause it's just, I

660
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:46,800
saw someone say make a post, it
said that if taking down a

661
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:53,040
satanic child sacrifice
pedophilia ring crumbles the

662
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,120
Western world as we know it,
then we need to crumble the

663
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,600
Western world as we know it.
And I'm like, yeah, absolutely.

664
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,280
Totally insane.
On a much lighter note, I do

665
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,960
love having conversations with
chat about it.

666
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,400
Like kind of like you were
having like, hey, you want to

667
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:11,600
change your mind?
Like you have like those weird

668
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,320
conversations, like every Leanne
is like don't do this.

669
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,080
If you look at my chat history,
it would not be good.

670
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,680
Where I'm like, I'll be like,
hey, chat, I put $20,000 on the

671
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,840
patch to lose the Super Bowl.
And they're like, oh, that's a

672
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:24,760
lot of money.
Are you sure?

673
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,400
I just went double or nothing or
I keep having this.

674
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,400
It's like, oh, you've got and
it's like, I'm always like, oh,

675
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,200
no, I can't pay my mortgage or
I'm like, there is help for you.

676
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,080
And I just have these like
stupid conversations with it.

677
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,680
It's like I can't feed my kids.
And it's like it's like and I'm

678
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,400
making it die and I'm like,
there's no hope for me.

679
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,920
I get I don't want to get too
dark with it, but I'm I also,

680
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,480
I'll be like, no, you've got so
much.

681
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,160
It's funny.
It's like back and forth how

682
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:47,760
it's like always trying to make
cheer you on.

683
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,440
It's great.
That's funny.

684
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,760
There's a guy, there's a guy
who's made a career out of this

685
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,960
because he'll have you seen it.
So he'll have like, I don't know

686
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,760
if it's Chad or if it's Grok or
what, but he'll be like talking

687
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,800
where it can see a video of him
and he'll be something saying

688
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,000
stuff like, Hey, Chad, I'm in
quicksand, please help, Give me

689
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,640
advice.
And he's like, and I'll be like,

690
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,280
oh, oh, you're not really in
quicksand.

691
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,760
He's like, no, I'm in quicksand
and he's.

692
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,520
Great.
I love those, like little side

693
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:16,520
things.
I'm like, uh oh.

694
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,720
It's like, great.
And Chat's response, it's always

695
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:22,960
so, you know, funny.
So yeah, I like doing that.

696
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,640
Yeah, he had one.
It was like don't laugh or he

697
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,400
said he had one where it's like
do laugh at everything.

698
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,200
And then it was like one that
was like, don't laugh at

699
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,600
everything.
And it's it's like, or it's

700
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,240
like, hey, Chad, I want to let
have the final word.

701
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,800
Like, oh, yeah, yeah, let me
just end the conversation.

702
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,200
So I I got it.
You got the final word.

703
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,400
Go for it.
And then he'll say something

704
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,800
he's like, sounds good, you
know, or just something he's

705
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:48,800
like, can't that's.
Great.

706
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,720
Yeah.
I love asking Chad something and

707
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:53,360
then take quote UN quote, taking
its advice and something

708
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,840
terribly went wrong and I'm
like, yeah, why did you tell me

709
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,480
this?
And it's like, yeah, it's great.

710
00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:00,200
I haven't antagonized chat that
much.

711
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,760
I do sometimes it.
Probably messes with like its

712
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,360
overall picture of me a little
bit where it's like if I asked

713
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,040
something to draw on something
it'd be like a little bit

714
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,240
conflicted with reality, but
that's what I do when I'm bored.

715
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,520
Yeah.
I think the main things I've

716
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:19,600
gone toe to toe with him on is
environmentalism and, you know,

717
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:24,880
like anthropomorphic, not
anthropogenic global warming.

718
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,440
Oh yeah, Yeah.
Is is it pretty staunchly like

719
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:30,360
pro?
Yeah.

720
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,320
Yeah, OK.
And I was, I was like just

721
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,520
trying to walk him through the
reasoning, like, OK.

722
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:40,320
We.
Know that this mini Buffalo

723
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,920
roamed the North American
continent, right?

724
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,960
Yeah.
And that Buffalo at least admit

725
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,920
three times as much methane as a
cow.

726
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:57,840
So we have numbers maybe even
greater in numbers maybe or

727
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,280
equal to the cows that we have
right now.

728
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,360
And you're going to tell me that
cow flatulence is really a

729
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:08,440
problem because it because the
Buffalo had more flatulence than

730
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,600
the cows and it would it it it
can't.

731
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,160
It can't handle it.
It just like just tries to like

732
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,120
say something else like well, I
think.

733
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:17,840
It's because they put guardrails
in it.

734
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,760
They don't allow it to actually
reason, you know from.

735
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,200
It is so interesting.
I don't know, all these things

736
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,360
are so maybe not that, but so
many things are so complicated

737
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:33,480
where it's like it's hard to I
don't know, this thing says

738
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,960
this, this thing like the the
information is like, Oh, this is

739
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:37,960
bad information, like why is
this?

740
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,920
But it's like, I don't know,
it's hard to hard to make sense.

741
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,800
And even with like, I don't
know, I there's a lot of it's

742
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,040
like people argue and they get
fixated on little things and

743
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,400
maybe like this part's true, but
this part's not, or maybe it's

744
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,080
all true.
Maybe it's all a lot wrong or

745
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,440
you know.
Well, as far as our

746
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,920
environmentalists, I think we've
had this conversation at in some

747
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,000
sense, Christians should be the
best environmentalists.

748
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,240
And then depends on how you fill
that definition in.

749
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:04,880
What does that.
Yeah.

750
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,240
What's that look like?
'Cause it doesn't mean that you

751
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:14,600
worship the earth, or that you
always you, or that you treat

752
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,360
humans as not part of the earth
itself.

753
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,280
Like, hey, we are animals here
too.

754
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,760
We have a right to do stuff like
there's.

755
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:30,040
It's OK if Organism A flourishes
and Organism B suffers because

756
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,160
we're 'cause that's nature, but
we are part of nature, right?

757
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:39,720
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That I, I totally agree.

758
00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:41,400
Yeah.
It's, that's so crazy.

759
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,880
But I guess I, I think
guardrails would have to be

760
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,600
because to me, like the science
is like, if you zoom out far

761
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,760
enough, then then the trends are
different.

762
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,080
It's like, hey, you're looking
at a 200 year versus a 2000

763
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:56,680
year.
It's like you just change the

764
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,480
parameters and it's a way
different story.

765
00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:58,920
Oh.
Yeah.

766
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,080
Oh, I was gonna say is.
I think it's clear the models do

767
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,480
do not work.
And I don't know if that's

768
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,520
because they make the models to
make the crazy predictions.

769
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:12,200
But when they give like they
give the models like year, all

770
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,040
the years up to 2000 and they
go, OK, what's going to happen?

771
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,640
Then it goes like crazy.
And they're like, that's not

772
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,720
actually what happened.
The other thing is there's this

773
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:26,720
weather guy, this meteorologist
that I, I, I follow on Facebook,

774
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,560
and he's like, yeah, the average
global temperatures have gone

775
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,520
up.
What does that even really mean?

776
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:34,480
What's that mean?
It's.

777
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,800
Like there and, and what it
means for most people is a

778
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,560
better life.
It's not as bad in Siberia.

779
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:45,680
It's like what's happened is the
very coldest places on Earth are

780
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:51,040
not quite as cold.
And the the the more temperate

781
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,560
places like where we live are
basically the same.

782
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:55,840
Yeah.
It's yeah, yeah as.

783
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,360
What they've been, it's.
Always been hot in the sun.

784
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,560
And, you know, you look at like,
pictures of Ellis Island, Statue

785
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,560
of Liberty and the water level
back like in 1930 in the day.

786
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,120
And it's like, hasn't changed at
all.

787
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:09,760
And.
I'm not.

788
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,880
Saying that and.
There might you can even see

789
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,200
like yeah, maybe there'll be
some like local like these, like

790
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:17,920
little yeah, but it's like
what's the.

791
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:21,240
Yeah, yeah, when when all the
environmentalists, the rich

792
00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:23,560
environments like Al Gore, stop
buying beach.

793
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,800
Yeah, then I'll.
Take them seriously, yeah.

794
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,040
This is also, and this is
different.

795
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,360
And I think, and I can like
agree with this, like I think

796
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,840
all this legislation for like
healthier food is good.

797
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,960
Like I think it's good not to
have red dye in my cereal.

798
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,560
The other thing I'm thinking is
like, I just shouldn't be eating

799
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,160
cereal.
Like it's like that's good, but

800
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,520
it's like also eat healthy.
Or it's like, I think you're

801
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,520
you're fixing things that we
know are bad, but it's like, is

802
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,480
that like the bigger
conversation?

803
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,360
Yeah.
I well, I yeah, I think you just

804
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,200
say don't put red dye in your
food.

805
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,080
Don't use these chemicals.
There's something to it.

806
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,480
Because there's people who would
say they have celiac, they don't

807
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,080
eat any bread here.
They travel to Italy.

808
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,040
It's great.
Pizza all day and they can eat

809
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:10,440
pasta.
No problem.

810
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,360
The pasta, the dough, they can
eat all the gluten they want and

811
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,600
there's no issues.
And they come back here and

812
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,640
there's issues.
Is that because we have a

813
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,440
different strain of wheat?
Is that because of the

814
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,720
flacrophosphate that we put on
everything?

815
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:29,440
I mean, something is totally
wrong when like everyone's

816
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,280
unhealthy in America, no matter
what.

817
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,320
Like it is pretty, it's pretty
crazy.

818
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,040
And it's like I something's
wrong.

819
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:42,280
Something is not great.
Yeah, we, Jill, you'll hear this

820
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,520
when, Well, you can hear this
when you listen to, Yes, my

821
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,800
favorite we, we look to like get
rid of all of our plastic

822
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,360
drinking Ware.
And I guess there may be some

823
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,640
science that says plastic that
gets used more and more start

824
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:55,080
shedding these.
Microparticles.

825
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,000
I don't know, but I look at what
we buy from the grocery store

826
00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,960
and everything is packaged in
plastic.

827
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,040
Everything.
Everything is packaged in

828
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,360
plastic.
Maybe not spaghetti sauce.

829
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:10,080
Maybe you can get a a glass jar
of spaghetti sauce, like maybe

830
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,600
like the high acidity tomato
stuff you can get that's in, but

831
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,640
everything's in plastic.
I'm like, I don't know.

832
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:18,760
It is, yeah.
That's the thing.

833
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,760
Like you start going down that
road, it's like you just need to

834
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:25,000
like you really do need to get
some chickens and like get the

835
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:26,400
eggs straight.
It's like you just, you know

836
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:27,760
what I mean?
It's like it's.

837
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,840
Yeah, you everyone becomes your
own homesteader prepper 'cause.

838
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,280
It's even I think it's great,
like Carnes crossroads, like

839
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,600
does like the its own farming
stuff.

840
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:37,240
And part of me is like that's
awesome.

841
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:39,160
The other and I don't know this,
I have not looked science like

842
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,640
how much healthy.
I'm sure it is way healthier,

843
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:47,840
but it's like how healthy, much
healthier is it like 5 million

844
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,160
cars like like just all all over
those crops every day or I mean,

845
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:53,760
you know what I mean.
I'm sure it's better than normal

846
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,320
stuff, but it's like it also
seems like that's not no matter

847
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,040
what you do, it's it's hard.
Yeah.

848
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:05,440
So I think what you're saying is
we need a savior to come back.

849
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:06,800
That's.
Exactly right.

850
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,000
That's right.
That's right.

851
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:12,840
And live for at least 1000
little years on earth, right?

852
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,000
Yeah.
Oh, there you go.

853
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,960
Love it, love it.
That's the that's the answer.

854
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:22,000
Right, that's.
Our Take Thanks for listening to

855
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,400
Take Two.
Find us wherever you find

856
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,920
podcasts and on YouTube for
those who want to watch our

857
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:27,600
video cast.