Cults | Is Mormonism Christian? Defining Denomination, Doctrine, and the Divide

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Cults.
Love it.

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We had a comment on the last
one, the baptism 1 and we used

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the term cult and I was thinking
at the time as soon as the word

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came out that we should probably
define it.

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It can mean a lot of things.
It can mean more.

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Drinking the Kool-aid, Yeah.
Like, oh, literally, yeah.

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So at least at the start, we're
going to use cult as as really a

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formal definition, which means a
a religion set of beliefs and

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practices that claims to be
Christian, but when you look at

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it, it's not actually Christian.
That's I, when I, I went to a

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very conservative undergrad
school, I took a class called

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Modern Colts.
And that was the definition we

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used where, you know, in our
textbook Roman Catholicism

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cults, you know what I mean?
Like by that?

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Like, you know, like looking at
everything.

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Cause a lot of people would say
like, that would not be like

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colloquial at all.
People, even if they would say

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maybe Jehovah's Witnesses, yes,
they might say like Catholics,

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no.
And then sometimes the occult,

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which is tricky, the dark, you
know, the pentagrams, you know,

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the stuff that we see people
doing reportedly on the Epstein

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list, that kind of stuff,
craziness.

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That's kind of the occult, but
some the the word occult has

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kind of morphed from its
technical term just into cult.

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And also, it's tricky.
It's like CrossFit, veganism, A

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cult, like, like you people, you
know, people say that, right?

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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Not what we're talking about.
Yeah.

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And just to clarify, the
Catholic claim, like what we're

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saying is the Roman Catholic
doctrine itself, maybe we should

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review that.
We're saying we don't think that

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it aligns with some of the prime
tier A doctrines of the Bible,

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not that you can't be a Roman
Catholic who is a believer.

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Yeah, but you.
But if you are, you may be

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misinformed or just don't
believe what the the Church

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formally formally teaches.
I think that's good 'cause it is

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tricky and I'm glad you put in,
put in the occult thing.

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I didn't think about that, but
that is, the words are so

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similar.
Yeah, it's great.

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Alright, so today we're going to
be talking about the cult using

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that formal definition of
Mormonism.

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And The thing is we're we're
going to talk about Jehovah's

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Witnesses next week.
And if you talk to a Mormon,

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they they may not like to be
called Mormon.

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Latter Day Saints.
Latter Day St.

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Or someone who's in the
Jehovah's Witness, they will

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likely say that they are
Christian.

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So I understand that if you are
Mormon and you listen to this

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because for some reason Facebook
thought that you should watch

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this or something, I understand
that this might be, you're going

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to disagree and that's that's
fine.

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But I think if we clarify, you
know what it is that we're

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talking about.
I.

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Think it's specifics that's.
Good.

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There'll be, there'll be
distinctions that are made that

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that we'll see as we go through
it.

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So.
I love it.

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Yeah.
All right, so you ready?

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Let's take it to the next level.
Let's fire up that twang music.

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From the hearts of the Low
Country in South Carolina.

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It's the Take Two podcast where
we take theology to the next

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level.
We're not necessarily trying to

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prove that Mormonism is wrong
here, although I think maybe we

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talked about maybe having some
something like that, but we're

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really just trying to clarify
the I, just I.

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I I give Michael, like, just
tears.

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I, I think our recording stuff's
going down, but we're just

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trying to clarify.
Is Mormonism a denomination is

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just another denomination like
Episcopalians, Baptists,

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Mormons, we're all believers or
are there just differences in

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what we believe that are big
enough that would say, we're not

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necessarily saying that we're
right and you're wrong, but if

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you're a Christian, then we're
not a Christian.

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Or if we're a Christian, then
you're not a Christian.

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Cause it's like if you have big
enough differences, it's like

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you can't fit in the same
bucket.

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It's such.
A good thing to think about

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because words matter and words
mean different things to

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different people and it is
confusing in all the religious

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landscape because everyone does
like to claim words of their own

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and and really drilling down
being specific helps because

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straight from the LDS doctrine,
how would they define Christian?

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All right, so.
I might, I might be, I might be

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in the wrong, wrong spot.
We can, we can back it up.

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I'm I'm, I'm getting ahead of
myself.

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OK, OK, So affirming the
question question is not our

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individual or Mormon sincere or
are they good we talked about

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last time?
You know, it's very difficult to

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out nice a Mormon.
Some of the most hospitable

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people I've met are Mormons,
Latter Day Saints.

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So really the question is, is
Mormonism a Christian doctrine

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in the historical sense?
So definition to use classical

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one, if we were to say
Christian, the classical

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definition refers to a historic,
historic creedal Christianity

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that we've kind of recognized
for 2000 plus years now.

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That's why creeds are so
important.

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And, you know, I think even in
like Baptist circles, it's like

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creeds kind of lose their
centrality, even though I think

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most Baptists could be like,
hey, I believe and this about

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Christ.
And that's saying no creed, but.

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No creed but Christ.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
But I don't need those Catholic

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creeds.
But actually creeds are are good

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and they do provide some, you
know, rails to stay in between.

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And that is, that is usually the
test of orthodoxy, you know, But

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then we talked to domination and
then the, you know, you can have

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all these dominations that are
creedal, but they look a lot

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different.
Maybe not a lot different, but

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you know.
Yeah.

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And and so we've talked about
this more than once, but really

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we have some like what we might
call a tier doctrines.

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And that's what we're talking
about those creeds, you know,

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those core doctrines that the
Nicene, maybe the Athanasian

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Creed, the Cassidonian Creed
would kind of define for us.

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But then there's some things
that we're, it's not that I

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don't think, you know,
Presbyterians aren't Christians,

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but they, they practice things
different than us.

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That's that doesn't, it's hard
to do church together.

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If you're saying we need to
baptize all of our babies, and

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I'm saying we need to baptize
guys only believers, it's just

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going to cause constant
division, you know, So, and

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there's enough people to have a
local church for Presbyterian

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and a local church for whatever.
We are Reform Baptist without

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the Baptist name.
And So what you're basically

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saying is if the disagreement is
one of is along the lines of a

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secondary or tertiary issue,
different denomination, we're

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all Protestants, whatever.
But if it's like we differ on

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the Trinity or the nature of
Christ or something a tier, then

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that that's where we kind of get
bigger the denomination.

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It's like we're a different
religion.

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Maybe that puts you in the cult
category.

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If you're using the same book
that I'm using to justify your

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views, then we might would say
that.

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Yeah, that's exactly right.
And so sometimes people will use

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heresy for anything that's
false, but heresy in its formal

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definition is getting one of
those A tier things wrong.

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So we're so formally a heretic
is someone who is not a

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believer.
Not just that they get some

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doctrine wrong, they're not a
believer because they get some

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core doctrine wrong.
That's great.

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So if you believe in infant
baptism doesn't make you a that,

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that doesn't make you a heretic,
right?

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You know, you denying the
Trinity that literally makes you

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a heretic.
Correct.

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Yes, denying the Trinity would
be a heretical.

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And so the other, the lower tier
just for for our listeners to

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kind of get on the language
because I've been on Facebook or

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other places where people just
throw the heresy and heretic

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word around and it's like,
that's not what we're doing.

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So heterodox is the other thing
that you should be using.

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That just means it's not right
or it's not, you know, in line

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with scripture, at least from
scripture from your point of

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view, but it's not big enough to
be a a heresy.

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All right, So now to your
question.

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My question LDS, like if we want
to be fair to them, like what

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would they say a Christian is?
We can kind of use their

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doctrine to kind of evaluate,
you know, does this line up or

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not all?
Right so from the LDS Beliefs

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book pages 109 to 110 they have
this quote.

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A Christian is one who accepts
the scriptural, prophetic and

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spirit delivered testimony of
the divinity of Jesus of

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Nazareth.
Well, Michael, we got Jesus in

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there, you know, and divinity.
Hey, sounds pretty good.

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Yeah.
So, yeah, you might, you might

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have all those things.
You might, you might have a

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Mormon talk to you about Jesus
being God, the Son or the Son of

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God.
They may not say that we're also

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sons of God.
Yeah, yeah, they're going to,

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they're going to talk about
atonement for sin.

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They're going to talk about
Jesus resurrection.

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They're going to talk about
salvation through the name of

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Christ.
So like I said, I had a probably

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2 1/2 three hour car ride with
two Mormons who are my friends.

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We talked about.
I was just asking a bunch of

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questions and did not realize
that they would say a word and

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they meant something different
behind it.

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So I was listening to Glenn Beck
a lot.

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And I was like, Oh yeah, Glenn
Beck.

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Oh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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You're.
Fine, you know, 'cause I just

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was young enough and hadn't been
exposed enough to know that

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there was a difference between
them.

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Well, that's good.
Well, let's like drill down if

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we were looking at more of this
LDS beliefs book that maybe

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maybe they'll shed some more
light on on other beliefs.

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All right.
So the initial statement on and

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really their whole theology,
proper doctrine of God is wrong.

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And I talked to a friend who I
grew up with, still good friends

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with him who's a Mormon part of
my, when I took cults for a

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seminary, we had to interview
someone and I was like, OK, I'll

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interview this guy.
And what I said was like, hey,

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if you with what you believe is
true, then Father God who lives

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on that planet that starts with
an N or OB or something like

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that, I don't know.
He's not who you should be

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worshipping 'cause there's got
to be a that's bigger than and

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more.
Powerful.

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It even breaks down, you know,
philosophically you're saying

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too.
Also, this is an aside.

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I'm trying to think of all we
talked about in my modern cults

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class.
We did a chapter on Freemasons

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was like a point I'm trying to
think of like the other ones,

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like Christian Scientists.
Eddie, Eddie Murray.

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Eddie Picker Murray.
I can't even.

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Remember her name?
Yeah, Scientology, try to think

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of that.
Yeah.

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So and then like, you know, what
was LDS, I think I and Roman

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Catholicism, I think, I think we
hit those.

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Those were the main ones.
But I was like, I didn't for

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Mason chapter was hard because
everything's like a secret.

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But, you know.
So anyway, back to LDS.

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All right, so their statement on
God.

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This is from LDS beliefs page
262.

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God is the only supreme
Governor, omnipotent,

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omnipresent and omniscient
without beginning of days or end

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of life.
God is infinite, while men and

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women on earth are finite.
Again, I'm looking at this.

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I like omnipotent, omnipresent,
omniscient.

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Weird to say he's a governor,
but you know.

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Governor, But it doesn't.
Sound totally terrible here.

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Yeah.
So, but when we get

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clarification underneath what
the Godhead is, then we're going

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to start to see things start to
fall apart.

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So this is further down page
263.

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It says the Godhead consists of
three personages.

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We don't like that.
Don't like the personages?

226
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:42,080
God the first the Creator, God
the second the Redeemer, and God

227
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,680
the third the Witness.
These three are separate and

228
00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:51,000
distinct personages and beings.
There you go.

229
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,520
So that's a, that's a, that's a
big problem.

230
00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,960
Further down, the Father has a
body of flesh and bones as

231
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:05,560
tangible as a man's further
down.

232
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,000
This understanding stands in
stark contrast to efforts on the

233
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,840
part of traditional Christian
thinkers to maintain the

234
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:17,440
ontological oneness of Father,
Son, and Holy Spirit.

235
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,920
That's that last couple lines is
really helpful because you're

236
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,240
not like, oh, they use, they use
their terms wrong.

237
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,840
It's like they're they're
actually making a claim that is

238
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:28,760
different.
They're saying.

239
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,400
That so some key observations.
They have an explicit rejection

240
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,440
of ontological oneness.
So I, I heard, you know, I, I, I

241
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,080
don't think I've said this name
in many moons.

242
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,520
Well, many moons, but I just
heard, you know, on a it comes

243
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,080
up all the time.
Question of the Trinity.

244
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:48,880
Yeah.
Greg Kochlow is famous for

245
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,040
saying one what, 3 who's?
There you go.

246
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,440
One what, 3 who's?
And he'll say that, you know, it

247
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,160
doesn't have to make sense.
There's not.

248
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,480
But that's.
But there's not contrary but to

249
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,880
say that there are three what's
and each one of those what's has

250
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,880
their own who.
So 3 beings, 3 persons.

251
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:11,600
That breaks the the formulas
that we see that explicitly goes

252
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,720
against Scripture like
Deuteronomy 64 here, O Israel,

253
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,600
the Lord your God is 1.
You should love the Lord your

254
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:18,960
God with our heart, soul, mind,
and strength.

255
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,920
You know there's one God.
You know all of those, those

256
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:28,800
great monotheistic passages.
This would be in in conflict

257
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,040
with that.
Yeah, definitely.

258
00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,560
And this, this is a good place.
If you ever talked to Mormon,

259
00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:35,920
it's like, take them right here
where they're saying, Hey, we,

260
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,720
we're, we're different to, we
are different than traditional

261
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:43,280
Christianity on this on purpose,
because that's a, that is,

262
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,840
that's pretty like start.
Cause most of the time I feel

263
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,360
like when you're talking about
this in Christian circles, it's

264
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,960
like a, a misunderstanding or
like we don't know the crudal

265
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,440
formula.
It's more of like ignorance than

266
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,520
like, I firmly believe this, but
this is like, I firmly believe

267
00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,400
this kind of crazy all.
Right.

268
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,320
So we talked about the
ontological oneness if if you

269
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:08,880
caught this, they give body like
it's part of his nature and it's

270
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,600
really crazy.
It's like, OK, so where did

271
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,240
those atoms come from?
Where did that mass come from?

272
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,600
Father, son and spirit are three
distinct beings.

273
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,360
LDS theology intentionally
distance itself from classical

274
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,360
Christian doctrine in their
written word.

275
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,760
And you may have talked to a
Mormon and I haven't seen this

276
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,960
written down, but I've heard it
a lot.

277
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:35,760
They'll say as we are, God once
was, as God is, we will one day

278
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:36,640
be.
Yeah.

279
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,040
So I guess that's why that helps
us get there.

280
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,520
Like that's why they would want
God to be embodied God because

281
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,080
that's like crucial to their
escata.

282
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:47,160
Like that's like where we're
going.

283
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:52,040
Yeah, but if you do any
philosophy, you know that

284
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,200
something physical is composed
of parts, it's contingent.

285
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,560
It you know, it, it doesn't have
any of the qualities that you

286
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,080
would think is in a great making
being.

287
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,000
You know, if you look at the
ontological argument and

288
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:07,040
maximally great being does not
have a body.

289
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,520
So yeah, it's really weird.
And I think this we might talk

290
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,040
about this later.
To me, this is where Mormonism

291
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:20,160
breaks down from a philosophical
from a historicity from like I

292
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:21,760
thought this through all the
way.

293
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,640
I'm really curious if there are
Mormon apologists that like like

294
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,960
what's their like these famous
arguments like how did they

295
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,520
because obviously they would not
side with the atheist Like like

296
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,400
how did like how did like what's
their like?

297
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,680
How do they fit in between class
and Christianity of monotheism

298
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,360
and atheism?
Because they're arguing

299
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,920
something very radically
different from both of those.

300
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:46,360
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, Yeah.

301
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:47,600
I mean, like, how do you, how do
you fit that?

302
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,040
To me that that that is so
interesting.

303
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,960
When you zoom out, it's like you
see a little holes that aren't

304
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,600
just philosophically,
philosophically based, but it's

305
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,240
like all these little, little
holes.

306
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,400
And that and Christian Science.
Mary Baker, Ed.

307
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,520
Yeah.
I don't know why it just came to

308
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,000
me.
All right, so the Nicene Creed

309
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,480
so you know, we we would claim
that we believe the Nicene Creed

310
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,360
versus LDS theology.
Nicene Creed is classical says

311
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,360
there's one God, one divine
essence, 3 persons, not 3

312
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,920
beings, not three gods.
This is LDS teaching again from

313
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:28,440
LDS believes 263 to 264.
The Godhead consists of they put

314
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:33,240
in quotes 3 beings who quote
possess all the attributes of

315
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,080
godliness and perfection and
share no mystical union of

316
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,960
substance.
It's like it's right out there

317
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,440
in distinct contrast.
They are as distinct in their

318
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,520
persons and individualities as
are any three persons in

319
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,440
mortality.
I don't know how you make it

320
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:52,440
more clear.
Yeah.

321
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,560
That that actually is really
helpful because I think in

322
00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:00,160
practice, you talk to a Mormon
and it's like, hey, we're the

323
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,240
same, but this is a good, this
is, this is like a good dividing

324
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:04,560
line where you can point to
their stuff.

325
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,160
Yeah, right.
And maybe we should, maybe we

326
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:08,000
should get through all the
points.

327
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,960
But it does bother me when they
came like, hey, we're Christians

328
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:12,560
just like you.
We just want you to have the

329
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,240
more fuller revelation just and
the Book of Mormon.

330
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,560
I've not read all of it.
I've not read most of it.

331
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:21,920
I've read a little bit of it,
but what I have read of it, it's

332
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,920
just like an all like a history
book.

333
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:26,800
There's not like a lot of
doctrine in it.

334
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,360
I I don't think it's a true
history book, but it's not like

335
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:34,280
they, they'll say read this Book
of Mormon and ask for a burning

336
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,760
in the bosom to let for God to
let you know it's true.

337
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,200
But you're not going to get any
of this stuff in the Book of

338
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,680
Mormon.
It's just going to be Maroni.

339
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,760
This army fought this army and
it's and it's kind of written in

340
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,120
in KJV esque.
Type.

341
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,240
That's even though it was
written way after.

342
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,600
That time, that's tough.
I think we should talk about

343
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,040
what the people really want to
hear about.

344
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,520
What's that?
Polytheism.

345
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,680
Yeah, there you go.
So you might come to the

346
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:07,440
conclusion if I said I believe
there are three, the Father who

347
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,040
is God and he is a separate
being in person.

348
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,440
And the Son is God, He is a
separate being in person and the

349
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,600
Holy Spirit and he has separate
being in person.

350
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,000
It sounds like there are three
different beings who are all

351
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,760
gods.
It's like what people would say

352
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,520
about Christianity pejoratively,
like not being right, like but

353
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:26,880
we could say that about them and
be right.

354
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:28,320
Do you know like based on their
doctor, right?

355
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,000
But they they explicitly deny
the term.

356
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,440
Yeah.
This is like Jehovah's Witnesses

357
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,400
would say about us.
We're saying about Mormonism,

358
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:37,920
right?
Yeah.

359
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,880
Yeah, but I think ours sticks.
And there's like, yeah, yeah.

360
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:44,720
Yeah, yeah.
So the LD, so this is another

361
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,880
quote from their LDS beliefs
book.

362
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:52,280
The LDS belief in three beings
within the Godhead is not to say

363
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,200
that we are polytheistic, but
like if you look at the

364
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,160
definition of polytheism, it's
explicitly more than one being

365
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,520
who is a God.
'Cause we would say we're not

366
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:07,200
polytheistic because the Spirit
is God, God the Father is God,

367
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,400
the Son is God.
Right understanding what the

368
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:17,400
being of God is 1 being one
divine essence and within that

369
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:22,840
divine essence 3 personalities
who Co penetrate.

370
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,600
So the Father is one with the
Spirit and the Son, the Son's

371
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,600
one with the Father and the
Spirit, the you know, Spirit's

372
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,240
one with the Father and Son.
I I may have done this.

373
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:39,480
And so Co eternal, Co divine,
but one, one being one one

374
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,440
thing.
LDS explanation of monotheism in

375
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,440
the ultimate and final sense.
There is only one true and

376
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,480
living God, one Godhead, 3 Gods,
3 beings, and these three

377
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,840
constitute the Godhead and R1.
But now I'm just confused.

378
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:55,840
Yeah, yeah, it's.
Like they're backtracking I

379
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,400
mean.
Yeah, it's like, it's like the

380
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,680
guy who wrote this may not know,
may not have been

381
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,200
philosophically trained.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

382
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,080
you're probably right.
And you, that's what that's

383
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,920
something that I really
appreciate about Christianity,

384
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,520
is that I think there are things
written by people that aren't

385
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,000
philosophically trained.
There's people that aren't

386
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,280
trained in anything, but it all
checks out because it came from

387
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:20,640
one.
Yes, exactly.

388
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,400
Like it doesn't.
Yeah, exactly.

389
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,240
Right.
So in analysis of what we just

390
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,320
read, there's one, they're one
God.

391
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,600
So how they get away from
polytheism is they kind of put

392
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,800
it under a presidency.
Like these three beings and I

393
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,920
talked to, they're all of one
mind, they're all of one will,

394
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:43,240
they're in a court.
And so it's like this, you know,

395
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,840
because they all agreed that is
the Godhead and that there's one

396
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:48,160
of those.
Oh, I see.

397
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:53,440
I see what you're saying.
It's like if you had a group of,

398
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,840
yeah, maybe I'm saying this
wrong, a group of people, like

399
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,160
running the country.
It's like one group of people.

400
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,920
Right.
OK, so unity is functional, not

401
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,200
ontological.
This is divine oligarchy, not

402
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,840
monotheism, redefines and
monotheism not merely interprets

403
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,400
it.
So, yeah, just just like you

404
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,440
said, if you had three people
who could maybe better than than

405
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:23,520
us be aligned in our purposes,
that is, that is there's only

406
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:24,320
one of those.
Yeah.

407
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,800
So that's how they that's why
they still claim monotheism.

408
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,840
All right, so conclusions.
Classical, classical

409
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:35,760
Christianity, clearly one God by
nature, Mormonism, 3 gods united

410
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,040
by purpose.
And these are really mutually

411
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,600
exclusive.
They're they're different.

412
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,120
You know, we can argue why we
think ours is right and we think

413
00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:47,640
theirs is not, but really that's
kind of meta for this.

414
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,640
We're just saying they're
different enough that we should

415
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,000
be able to recognize that
they're not the same.

416
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,760
That's not just another
denomination.

417
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:55,320
That's right.
And we're not just like going

418
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,480
through a sermon from one guy.
It's like we're going to like

419
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:02,280
their quartets.
All right, so why Mormonism

420
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,840
exists?
Joseph Smith's own first vision

421
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,440
were he came back and he said
all Christian churches are

422
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,440
wrong, their creeds were an
abomination, professors were all

423
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,800
corrupt, hurtful, the teaching,
the commandments of men, and

424
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,240
this this is found in the Pearl
of great Price.

425
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,400
Joseph Smith.
History, 119.

426
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,520
So he he's coming at it anyway
with that dividing line.

427
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,680
He's not even saying like man,
well-intentioned said some

428
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:32,880
things, didn't interpret them
right.

429
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,800
Let me interpret them right.
It's like, hey, we were like

430
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,720
totally off base.
This is corrupts.

431
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,240
Right.
He prayed to know which of the

432
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,720
denominations was true and
correct.

433
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,800
And he said he came back with
this revelation that none of

434
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,360
them are true and that God was
going to restore the true thing

435
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:53,360
through him.
And that's where the the golden

436
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:54,880
plates and all all that came
about.

437
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,960
So the implications of this is
with Christianity, at least for

438
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:02,840
the last 2000 years, was
corrupt, a great apostasy.

439
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,960
It occurred.
Joseph Smith's role was to

440
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,760
restore the true gospel.
And Mormonism is not necessary.

441
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,840
It's not a reform.
It's not like what Martin

442
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,600
Luther's trying to do.
It's a replacement.

443
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:19,240
Man, so we try to play this out.
It's it's similar in a way that

444
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:24,360
maybe a Catholic would come to a
Protestant and be like, does

445
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:27,760
that mean, does that mean there
was no gospel for a thousand,

446
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,360
1500 years or you know what I
mean?

447
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,800
And we would say, well, along
the way somewhere, but they're

448
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,200
really pushing the ball back
even more like that, you know,

449
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:37,680
for more of a claim.
Yeah.

450
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,680
And yeah, and since the apostles
and they believe that they have

451
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,120
reinstituted the 12 apostles,
you know, but they also believe

452
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:53,360
that the apostle John is still
alive, but he's not on their 12

453
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:56,840
apostle seat.
Dude, it's like, hey, you

454
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,640
reformed the apostles, but you
didn't have.

455
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,280
John the OG Yeah, What are we
doing?

456
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,880
All right, so logical
consequences of this restoration

457
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,400
mentality if Christianity lost
the gospel classical, I don't

458
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,720
know why I keep on classical.
Christianity preached a false

459
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,080
gospel for around 2000 years.
There's Paul's morning in

460
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,600
Galatians 1 and I saw I thought
that was so good.

461
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:27,320
There was some real that said
there's talking about Mormon and

462
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,120
they were, they were arguing and
the guy said, do you know

463
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:33,480
Mormonism is found in the Bible
and someone's like, no where is

464
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,440
it?
And he's like Galatians 18.

465
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,080
Paul says, if any gospel other
than what I preach is preach to

466
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:39,400
you.
Oh, that's.

467
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:40,560
Funny.
That's great.

468
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,880
That's great.
Yeah, that's where it is.

469
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,280
You're the anathema.
But that's what Paul said.

470
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,760
If we or an Angel, even an Angel
from heaven, should preach.

471
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,800
Another gospel.
Say it was an Angel of heaven.

472
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,280
Yeah, exactly right.
Say his claim is true.

473
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,920
It's different.
Yeah, it's different and it is a

474
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,320
curse.
So either Joseph Smith's faults

475
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,360
or historic Christianity
preached a cursed gospel.

476
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:07,920
Both cannot be true.
You might see folks try to

477
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:13,640
soften this claim again from LDS
beliefs 461 this does not mean

478
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,440
that men and women of other
Christian faiths are not sincere

479
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,480
believers in truth and genuine
followers of.

480
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,680
Christ, and this is something I
think the Catholic Church does

481
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:25,080
as well.
They count like sincerity and

482
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,920
something that could be totally
countered to like Orthodoxy.

483
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,240
And it's like, hey, you know,
what are you going to do?

484
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,760
It's kind of crazy.
So it's nice that that today

485
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,160
they're saying that, but it's in
direct tension with what Joseph

486
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,440
Smith said.
Joseph Smith said we need to

487
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,960
wipe the wipe the sleep clean.
We're starting from the

488
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,960
beginning and there's no
explanation about how like we're

489
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,840
believing abominations.
Like if I believe what the credo

490
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,560
statements are saying, that's an
abomination, but we're genuine

491
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,120
followers.
It doesn't add up.

492
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,480
Man, well, that's the only thing
that's different, right?

493
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,000
That's the.
That is a very huge primary

494
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,280
thing.
There are some other things.

495
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,200
So eternal marriage and
salvation, this is another core

496
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,160
divide.
So Mormons believe that and

497
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,120
here's here's a very, here's a
very strange thing.

498
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:12,280
And I asked my Mormon friend,
when I did the interview with

499
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:18,320
him, he believes that that
Father God and someone I don't

500
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:23,240
know had a bunch of babies and
we were all spirit babies and we

501
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:29,240
lived in the spirit realm.
And how those spirit mature or

502
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,800
really come into their own is
they have to be born into a

503
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:38,000
human body or into a human body.
And so in this sense, you, me,

504
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:43,760
Satan, Jesus, we're all, we're
all children of the same Father

505
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:49,800
God, including God the Spirit.
But God the Spirit never became

506
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,720
a human.
He's still only spirit.

507
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,440
So how could he be part of the
Godhead if he never became the

508
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:01,920
physical being to be perfected
like you know, you and I are and

509
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,040
and Jesus and I guess Lucifer at
some point did.

510
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,760
But yeah.
So they believe in a premortal

511
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,440
existence, human lives as spirit
children in the family of God.

512
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,720
God has a wife, AKA the Heavenly
parents.

513
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,640
This is page 211.
All men and women are literally

514
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,880
the sons and daughters of deity.
Page 441.

515
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,880
Yeah, and that, that's explicit
too, are literally the sons.

516
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,280
So you can't even like
allegorize it or, you know, like

517
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:28,840
or even be like, hey, we're all
sons of God.

518
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,000
It's like.
Literally.

519
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,320
Yeah, literally the offspring of
Father God, I guess they would

520
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,800
say Mother God.
I don't know what what they call

521
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,880
the female.
And so like ontologically we are

522
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,760
the same as Jesus now.
Jesus was the best of us.

523
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,680
He came here and he did the
Father's will to rescue us.

524
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,240
And we all can like.
But we're, I mean, he's just,

525
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:55,320
he's, he just did it better than
us.

526
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,600
It's not a it's not a difference
of kind.

527
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,120
It's just a difference of degree
for.

528
00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:03,760
Them eternal marriage.
Eternal marriage.

529
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,160
So full salvation, consists of
continuation of the family unit

530
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:15,000
in celestial glory.
Those from whom the family unit

531
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,560
continues have eternal life.
Those for whom it does not

532
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,640
continue do not.
Eternal marriage is a requisite

533
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,280
for exaltation in the highest
glory, or Kingdom of God.

534
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,600
These are all quotes from the
LDS beliefs.

535
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,040
All quotes from the LDS beliefs.
Yeah, thanks for in.

536
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:36,280
And so I have a friend, another
friend who grew up Mormon and

537
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,840
then was like, yeah, this is
Kuku Kuchu.

538
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,000
I'm leaving.
He probably actually said that.

539
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,000
And then they they this they
warned him like we're going to

540
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,320
annul your marriage with your
wife if you leave the and you

541
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,320
will not have eternal life.
Dang.

542
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,320
And so this is this is what this
is literally, you know, he was

543
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,960
like, yeah, OK, do that.
I don't believe it's true.

544
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,800
So why would I?
Why would that threat hangover

545
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,200
me?
Man, I wish you know Jesus said

546
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,680
something about marriage.
Like he said that we're not

547
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,080
given, you know, we're just like
the angels and we're not.

548
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,520
We don't aren't married and
aren't given in marriage.

549
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,320
Yeah.
Yeah, that that's bizarre cause

550
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,360
classical Christianity you have
in our notes well as salvations

551
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,480
through our union with Christ.
It's like because of Christ,

552
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,880
it's not like we're doing the
same thing and we're all from

553
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,920
the same family in and of our of
our ourselves, which like we

554
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,480
need that connection to Christ
to have any hope.

555
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,160
And this might be a little
inflammatory, but I think the

556
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:35,960
the history bears it out that
there was some bit of, you know,

557
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,400
I hate to say this, but but but
married with young, you know,

558
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,560
Joe Smith had a bunch of young.
So if you put marriage as the

559
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,200
key to eternal life and you say
I got to marry all these people

560
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,560
and all these guys, you need to
marry all these.

561
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,000
Just doing the Lord's work,
yeah.

562
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,080
Yeah, it kind of whitewashes
something that might otherwise

563
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,320
be pretty tawdry.
All right, so in the final

564
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,360
assessment, Mormonism, it
rejects Nicene herenitarianism,

565
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,120
it redefines God, redefines
Christ, adds new revelation.

566
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:10,760
So they would put the Pearl
great price, the covenants,

567
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,480
doctrines and covenants and the
Book of Mormon on par with the

568
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,280
Bible.
So three separate books, the

569
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,120
Book of Mormon, you're not going
to get really any doctrine

570
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,880
there, but the Pearl great price
and doctrines and covenants,

571
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,120
you'll get doctrine.
And then this book, LDS Beliefs

572
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,280
kind of is like their closest
thing to like a systematic

573
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,840
theology that we've been reading
from redefines God, redefines

574
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,040
Christ as your new revelation,
redefines salvation.

575
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,160
So they're just different.
Like we've been kind of saying

576
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,880
why we think that they're wrong,
but even if they're right and we

577
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,320
are wrong.
Two different things.

578
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:47,840
Two different things.
Not even closely.

579
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,840
Yeah, apples and that's.
Really good to think through.

580
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,360
So really, in summary, the issue
is not necessarily tone,

581
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,760
sincerity, or morality.
They could be great people,

582
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,880
issues and definitions and
doctrines.

583
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,080
By their own authority.
Mormonism cannot be classified

584
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,000
as Christian.
If we're Christian, they're not.

585
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,400
Yeah, or vice versa.
Man, that's good.

586
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,960
Pretty pretty stark divide.
King of Queens.

587
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,280
King of Queens.
The the wife she Jehovah's

588
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:20,280
Witness.
Was she LDS?

589
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,560
What was she?
Was she something?

590
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,240
Else like the actress, the
actress.

591
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,360
Yeah, she was some cult and she
like talks about like I was in

592
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:27,560
this cult.
It was terrible.

593
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:29,520
I don't know what it is, but I
think it's one of those.

594
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,640
Two.
OK, Yeah, I don't know.

595
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:32,240
Sorry.
Hey.

596
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,480
Next episode, I'm going to look.
I'm going to look it up on the

597
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,040
old Google.
Yeah, yeah, Mormonism.

598
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,120
Yeah, Mormonism.
What?

599
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,960
Else you got anything?
On Mormonism, no.

600
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,960
If you are Mormon and you think
we got something wrong, love to

601
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,800
hear from you.
Comment up.

602
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,440
We don't want to straw man
anything but we were reading

603
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,440
from the this book so if you
think we took something out of

604
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,120
context or something I we'd love
to get some interaction.

605
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,560
LDS Beliefs is this book.
I should apologize.

606
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,400
Not LDS.
So this is King Queenstar, not

607
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,880
LDS, not Joe's witness, Church
of Scientology for 30 years.

608
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,040
And she had a rough time getting
out of there and lost a lot of,

609
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:18,800
you know.
Money and stuff, Yeah, yeah,

610
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,480
yeah.
So different.

611
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,640
Yeah.
Tom Cruise and boy, what's the

612
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:30,520
the Saturday Night Fever guy?
The pilot.

613
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:32,800
Yeah, you know.
What I'm talking about I.

614
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,680
Don't I know Tom Cruise?
I'm trying to think of this

615
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,680
other.
Guy talking about yeah, now I've

616
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,000
got to do the.
Now, now.

617
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,000
Everyone, everyone else at home
is.

618
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:42,960
Knowing who this is, but I.
I don't know.

619
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,840
Saturday Night Fever, I believe
is.

620
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,520
Scientologists, man, they were
able to get, they were able to

621
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,200
get into Hollywood, you know
what I mean?

622
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,640
John Travolta.
John yeah.

623
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,800
Chad yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah.

624
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,640
They old man, they, they know
where to look for the, the

625
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,360
money, Scientology, they do
something right.

626
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,000
That's that's what they're doing
all.

627
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,280
Right, well, she'll be do our
last take.

628
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,520
Oh yeah, let's, let's, let's,
let's do that last take.

629
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,760
Yeah.
So I guess we can since we've

630
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,520
gotten the paths over in our
last episode.

631
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:16,840
That's great.
We.

632
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,000
Can talk about Valentine's Day.
Valentine's Day was just

633
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:25,400
yesterday as of the recording
and Michael showed me no love

634
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:30,400
today.
So my wife, kudos to her, she

635
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,800
she likes to go out all out for
Valentine's meals.

636
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,520
She leading up to it, we'll find
heart-shaped foods so we eat for

637
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:43,040
lunch day we had heart-shaped
chicken tenders or chicken

638
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:44,920
Nuggets I.
Guess heart-shaped.

639
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,600
Pasta.
So we had some homemade Mac and

640
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,240
cheese with that pasta.
Yeah.

641
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,000
And then she wanted to do
chocolate covered strawberries.

642
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:55,960
And I watched this guy and I
don't.

643
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,720
I'd love to give credit where
credit's due.

644
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,800
Yeah, we do.
But it was just reels and for

645
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,280
some reason there was a, there
was a time when he was showing

646
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,680
up on my reels, I was liking
interacting and I probably

647
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,520
couldn't find it if I went to go
find it.

648
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,400
But he had a lot of baking
stuff.

649
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,320
And one of the things he talked
about was how to temper

650
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,320
chocolate.
And if you like do it the way

651
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,560
they do in the factory 'cause
they're making huge batches.

652
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,080
It's a very complicated you've
got to bring it up to this

653
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,600
temperature, bring it down to
this temperature up, down,

654
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,840
because you're trying to get
certain crystallization

655
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,960
structures in that chocolate to
form.

656
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,560
He's like and for home, it's
very complicated.

657
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,679
I don't even like doing it that
way, but let me tell you what

658
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:38,360
you can do.
Melt all your chocolate, but

659
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:45,199
save like a, a, a decent amount
back and then take it off the

660
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:47,960
heat you're stirring it.
Add those things that aren't

661
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,440
melted in, and that's those
solids provide the crystalline

662
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,080
structure.
So that.

663
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,400
Yeah.
So that they hit that same

664
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,520
crystalline structure and it
grows.

665
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,520
So just like if you, you know,
if you ever like add salt to

666
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,400
something that's already in it,
like precipitates out of the

667
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,320
liquid, it's that type of thing.
So you want it, it, it gives it

668
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,960
basically the lattice on which
to build so that it tempers

669
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,240
correctly and it forms that hard
coating.

670
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,560
So this is my first time to put
it to the test today.

671
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,360
And it was great.
I bet it was great.

672
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,480
Can I tell you something?
Michael said he was going to

673
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,280
bring these strawberries and he
he didn't bring the

674
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,560
strawberries, so it's fine.
It's fine.

675
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,040
Hey, they are probably right
next to my front door.

676
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,720
So I, you know, it's a I'm
trying to get out 'cause I was,

677
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,040
I was like, I was sensitive to
the fact that I was actually

678
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,040
probably like 10 minutes later
than when I said I was going.

679
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,680
To be fine, yeah.
Yeah, I know you're good.

680
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,080
You're good.
I'm trying to get over here in

681
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,480
time and just ran out the door
and I, I was like pulling into

682
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:46,040
your driveway and I was like, I
left the strawberries so.

683
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,200
It's fine.
I forgive, but I don't forget.

684
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:53,760
So Speaking of pulling into your
driveway, this OK, so not to

685
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,480
give everyone where you live,
but if you go out on this road

686
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,560
and then take a left on that
main road park, well, you're

687
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,840
going to say, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That the light that's

688
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,040
immediately there.
I start driving and I about

689
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:12,400
T-bone because I don't know if
it's dangerous tension or if he

690
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,080
thought he had a green light or
if it was just like, you know

691
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,920
how some people are like I'm
going to make a left before the

692
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,760
other person can get by.
Like to tell her what it was.

693
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,240
But dude.
Because in all honesty, I was

694
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:27,080
like thinking and trying to prep
for, you know, doing some last

695
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,120
minute stuff on the way here.
So by my I, I still stopped.

696
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,040
So I wasn't totally distracted,
but I was distracted enough that

697
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,560
man, I was doing what was
legally right for me to do.

698
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,800
He was not and he about got T
boned.

699
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,280
This area is dangerous.
Next to Parkway is terrible.

700
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,240
Oh, man, it is.
You can't.

701
00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:46,880
I mean, it's like terrible
everywhere.

702
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,000
But man.
Glad you made it.

703
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,000
Glad.
Cool.

704
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,200
Crazy.
Also, Valentine's.

705
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:56,240
It's Valentine's banquet.
Michael had some trivia guys

706
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,400
beat the ladies.
Yeah, that's good.

707
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,160
Now, did you feel like 24
questions was too much?

708
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,680
I thought it was great.
I thought it might have been 4

709
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,080
questions too many.
Just find those.

710
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,720
Yeah, I was like thinking maybe
24.

711
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,960
I was like, 24 May not be
enough.

712
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,080
And I said something like 24.
Who was I talking to, Clay?

713
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:15,920
Because Clay wasn't there.
He's like 24 questions.

714
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,320
That doesn't seem like a lot.
I was like, I was trying to give

715
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,560
him like maybe 20 seconds
apiece.

716
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,280
So I think maybe we were
standing up 12 minutes, 15

717
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,880
minutes Max.
I think it was working, really.

718
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,440
I mean, I think it was great.
I think it was more good until

719
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:31,520
the guys pulled away and then it
got less good.

720
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,160
I don't know if that's true or
not, but it's like it was like

721
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,280
we were in a lockstep for the
longest time.

722
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,640
And then once we got like 3 or 4
questions, I didn't know how

723
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:38,720
many relatives was like, oh, I
bet there.

724
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,240
It seemed like it was like a
yeah.

725
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:42,280
It didn't mean any.
I mean you.

726
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,640
Know there was someone, I don't
want to say who it was, but

727
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,480
initials Kenya was like, can the
guys just win and we all go back

728
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,480
and sit down?
So maybe because everyone was

729
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,440
kind of standing up and you
weren't at your seats.

730
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,440
So I thought maybe if I do if if
for some reason I'm happened to

731
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,240
be called again to do a game at
a Valentine's banquet, maybe I

732
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:01,600
can make it table based.
Oh.

733
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,000
That's so nice.
Table competes instead of guys

734
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,480
and girls and maybe have a prize
for the table or something.

735
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:07,240
But that's good.
That's.

736
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:08,400
Good.
That way you don't have to get

737
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,280
up.
But Jill, Jill laments that.

738
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,840
And it's not every Valentine's
Day, but, but it's a.

739
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,920
Lot your responsibilities, yeah.
And so it's not like we can sit

740
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:18,480
down and enjoy stuff.
That's great.

741
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,120
I'll make sure you you for
perpetuity.

742
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,440
You're always doing.
I'm gonna get Michael would love

743
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:25,960
to help out with the Valentine's
Day, but I.

744
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,800
Had I had a good time, I I
wasn't trying to.

745
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,600
I did like this little singing
thing that I wrote you into.

746
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,600
I I cut it, I caught, I cut that
off early.

747
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,320
I was going to do even further
if I thought people are are

748
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,320
tired of this.
I was going to end.

749
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,640
So the gag was that you're keep
telling me like go back in time.

750
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,840
Like, Oh, so I started out with
baby baby.

751
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:48,280
I wish I had it planned.
I was like trying to find an

752
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,600
**NSYNC song that would have
been good, but I I couldn't find

753
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,960
something.
And, and and so but I just put

754
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,520
like a bunch of like different
love songs until I got back to

755
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,720
like this classical Italian love
song.

756
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,800
And I saying and then and I was
gonna ask you again about cut it

757
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:04,880
off.
I was gonna do like a, a

758
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:08,800
made-up, like a booga booga.
Booga all the way.

759
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,800
That's yeah, that's so funny.
But.

760
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,160
I should I, In hindsight, I was
like, I, you know, just do one

761
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,920
more 'cause that was.
But I was like, these people are

762
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:18,440
tired of this.
That was good.

763
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,520
That was good.
I was like, I don't know if I'm

764
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,200
supposed to keep saying one
more, but it was good.

765
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:24,120
Yeah.
It's great.

766
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:25,560
Valentine's.
I hope everyone had a good one,

767
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:26,800
you know?
There you go.

768
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,160
We're past it.
This is probably airing in,

769
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:30,800
like, is this airing Thursday?
Yeah.

770
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:31,440
Oh.
So.

771
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,760
It's pretty too bad.
Yeah, It's less than a week out.

772
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,640
From from Valentine's.
Great.

773
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,720
It's good.
Anything else you got?

774
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,040
Go pants.
Unbelievable.

775
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,360
Well, that's our take.
Thanks for listening to Take

776
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,560
Two.
Find us wherever you find

777
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,080
podcasts and on YouTube for
those who want to watch our

778
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:51,760
video cast.