Joy to the World: The Christmas Song That Isn’t

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It happened.
It happened again.

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Well, it happened in a bigger
way.

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This is I've got 4 kids. 4.
And they're all at Northwood,

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some in daycare, some.
Yeah, go ahead.

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Yeah.
So I was in the car line today,

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Yeah, and I thought I saw Jordy
sprinting across the from the

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preschool across to get in the
car.

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Is that a thing?
Maybe.

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Does he do that?
Do you have to stop at the

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preschool or do they do they let
you get all your except for

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Josh?
Well, yen a lot of times walks

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to the preschool get the kids,
but they might run ahead of her

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or something to like her
classroom or something.

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OK, well, maybe it maybe I
thought I saw.

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Did you pick up your kids today?
I.

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Did not, no.
I did not.

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All right, all right.
I almost never.

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I just must be mistaken.
Caroline stressed me out, man.

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It it is like it's like this
snake that winds in on itself.

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And it's crazy.
People are like motioning to

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you.
It seems hyper efficient in a

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good way, but it's like if
you're not used to the machine,

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you're like, oh, that's.
Why?

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I think like if Jill's parents
were to like they're like, hey,

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we'll go get him.
Like it is not the car line from

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three years ago.
It has.

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It's gotten this is.
Not your mother's car line.

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You weren't probably going to
talk about car line.

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No, I wasn't.
I was going to talk about, well,

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Northwood has a don't talk about
Santa rule deal.

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At school.
At school.

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At school, yeah.
Don't talk about Santa at.

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School rule.
I can see where this is going.

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Last year.
Yeah, so we're going to talk

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about Santa.
We're going to talk about Santa.

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Oh yeah, that's right.
If your kids for some reason

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believe in Santa, we're going to
tell them the truth.

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So turn this podcast off.
A warning.

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But last year, Jayden, he's like
more mild mannered.

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He said something his teacher
was like, hey, you know kids are

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talking about Santa Jane was
just like not real whatever like

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they brought it up first
whatever.

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A little bit in the pre-K they
talk about Saint Amore.

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I think the rules are different,
like lower school versus like

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daycare where like the they talk
about Santa like the teachers

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maybe don't encourage it, but
like, oh, what's Santa bring in?

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Like we'll do that kind of
thing.

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It's like different.
It's not the school.

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It's it's such, it's such a
worst question to ask a kid.

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What is Santa bringing?
Why not just say, what are you

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wanting for Christmas?
There you go.

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And then it's agnostic.
It's that's right.

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That's exactly right.
Jordan.

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He was a little bit more
bombastic and just like, dropped

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the bomb.
Santa's not real.

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Apparently him and another kid
named Clayton were at opposite

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ends of this.
And I and.

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And so teacher, like, reached
out like Kotland was like, hey,

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you know, just so, you know,
like, it was kind of, she was

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like, not mad.
She was kind of funny, but

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whatever.
We asked Jordan about it and we

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were like, oh, yeah.
So how did it end up?

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He was like, I'm the only one
that said Santa wasn't real.

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I was like, what did your
teacher say?

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She said Santa was real.
So it's kind of funny.

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You know, he was on the island,
you know, out there fighting.

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No, you heard my story growing
up, right?

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Through 5th.
Grade. 5th grade that is so.

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Old, that is, that's like is
Emerson 6th grade.

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So it's like just shy.
It's it's like, what were y'all

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doing Mom dad?
A lot of people.

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Are happy PTSD.
Experiences.

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I found out I think in second
grade, my Sunday school teacher

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said something or something like
that.

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My parents were like upset at
it, but I was like it.

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It blew my mind.
I was talking to people at our

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work Christmas party 'cause it
came up like, Hey, you tell, do

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you tell your kids about Santa?
Like no theological basis.

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But several people are like, oh,
we don't do that because it, it

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messed me up or like, like, like
just from a trust perspective,

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Like trust, no other basis.
But it was like a thing.

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I was like wow.
Yeah, because I wondered about

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Santa's relationship to God.
Like, how do they relate?

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Do they?
They must work together, you

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know what I'm saying?
And I had some.

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I had like I remember in 3rd
grade I had this ink pad and

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without warning right before I
went to bed, I was like, all

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right, Santa, if you're real,
you know, leave like a hoof

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print or something of, of the
reindeer.

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And my sisters faked it.
They.

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Did and.
It looked real and I was like,

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this is the proof that was.
It that's all I did this is the.

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Proof.
So it was crazy.

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I saw some, I saw some presents
wrapped from Santa like two or

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three days before Christmas and
I was like, so it's not real.

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Yeah, that was the.
Yeah, and I'm like.

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And why?
Well, yeah.

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What?
Mom, my mom's like, well, I

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always kind of thought you
probably did know.

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I'm like y'all bent over
backwards to deceive.

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Man.
Yeah.

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And ultimately that is what it
is.

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It's a deception.
Deception.

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I should say this, Michael.
What do?

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What do you gain from it though?
Really I.

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Know you lose.
Credit too if you have good

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kids.
Yes, and you're not rich.

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What are you telling them as to
why they didn't get something

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they asked for?
Dude, yeah.

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Why did Santa like Santa's
playing favorites?

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I will say you are in a way
deceiving our viewers because

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you are.
You're like you're doing the you

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got.
I'm gonna say you, you run me

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with a mullet because you're
business on top.

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But Christmas, Christmas pants
going on.

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He's got.
The he's got the polo on, but

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he's got the holiday.
Yeah, there you go.

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So it's funny, you know, 'cause
it's like brown polo.

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Yeah.
Yeah, Christmas.

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Pants.
Well, I was wearing my dress

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pants and I was like, you know,
I'm gonna be sitting in this

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position when we record someone
row and it's just not

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necessarily the most comfortable
position, so.

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Pod podcasting is not.
Easy.

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No, it's you need to dress.
Dressed in athletic gear for

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podcasts because it's that
demanding.

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That's right.
That's right.

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But Chris, we're we're going to
do a Christmas episode about a a

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hymn.
One of my favorite Christmas

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hymns.
Man, right.

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Yeah, yeah, man.
It's yeah, yeah.

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I see what you did there.
I mean, wow, I I, I should have

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pulled up a ranking.
Like what do you think the top

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like 5 hymns are like?
I don't, I don't.

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Where do you think this one
we're talking about today?

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I would think a top ten like it
would come in.

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I don't know for.
Sure, especially if you're

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talking about religious.
Songs.

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Yeah, yeah.
That's what, yeah.

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Exactly.
If you're talking about

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religious Christmas songs,
definitely maybe the top.

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I would probably say probably.
Most people say this is top 1-2

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or three.
Maybe a holy night?

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A holy night that's like a go.
Silent Night, Yeah.

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Joy to the world.
Hark the Herald.

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Probably in the top 4.
Maybe a What child is this?

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Maybe.
Mary, did you know?

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Mary, did you know, I saw this
video and this guy, this woman

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was, I don't know if it's her
husband or what, but she was

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like reading through all the
questions and then he was

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answering them.
Like, yes, she knew that.

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No, she wouldn't have known
that.

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Maybe she knew that like she
was.

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He was just going down.
I thought it was pretty funny.

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That's good.
Mary did you know just swept the

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world by storm.
It was like contemporary and OK

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for for very conservative
churches.

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It was like it like checked all
the boxes where it was like in

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this, you know when when did do
you know when this song came

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out?
15 years ago maybe.

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I I I'm curious, I want to say
it's older than that, but I.

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Maybe it is.
Let's see, because I remember I

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never know 'cause my.
Church.

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I would.
I think that's a good guess.

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Year it came out.
Let's see, 'cause I know my

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church, I always envisioned my
fundamental independent Baptist

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Church always being like 50
years in the past.

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So it seemed really new to us at
the time.

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It was like a 1991.
Oh my goodness, 91.

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With lyric, the lyrics were
written in 1984, song developed.

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1991 was when it was first
recorded and you know, I don't

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know if maybe it maybe it, it
took on popularity a little

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later.
I don't know, like if it took a

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while to come through, but yeah.
It I wouldn't have put it at the

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early 90s at all.
Man, we're just dropping

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knowledge on you, maybe dropping
a little more knowledge when we

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talk about joy to the world, the
Christmas song, the.

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The Christmas song, Yeah.
So let's let's talk more about

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that.
Let's take it to the next level.

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Let's fire up that twanga music.
From the hearts of the Low

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Country in South Carolina.
It's the Take Two podcast where

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we take theology to the next
level.

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Joy to the world, like, like we
were saying, classic hymn.

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I love that hymn.
It just has like the tune to it,

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you know?
It's like joy to the world.

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You know, it's easy because it
just goes right down that major

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scale.
So you know, if you, if you're

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familiar with music, it just
starts at the top and just works

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down the major scale.
So it's it's nice.

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And you have to think it's
author Isaac Watts.

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Just you get to see him by the
Yuletide fire.

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He's just sipping hot cocoa.
It's Christmas time, and he's

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writing this specifically for
Christmas, you know.

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Yeah.
Is this the same Isaac Watts

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that that did science stuff?
Well, this Isaac Watts, I don't

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know.
He's called the father of

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English.
English.

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I don't know if this is the same
Isaac watch or not he.

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Maybe it's a different watts
you.

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Know this guy was born in 1674
lived to 1748, but we just did a

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hasn't aired yet did a podcast
on worship.

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I did a deep dive on Isaac Watts
because he really changed the

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game.
He brought the church, a lot of

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the church, out of exclusive
psalmody and into this hymn era,

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which was pushing boundaries at
the time, you know, writing

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these hymns.
James Watt.

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Was the scientist.
James maybe they were, you know,

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family reunions, they caught up
or something.

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I don't know.
But what I want to land on is

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Joy to the World actually a
Christmas hymn or something

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else?
Maybe.

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Let's dive into the history.
Isaac Watts, it's.

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Probably a premillennial hymn.
It actually assumes a very

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specific eschatology is great.
I love it written, you know,

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around 300 years ago, you know,
late 1600s, early 1700s.

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And this guy, Isaac Watts
pushing the boundaries.

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He was not he wasn't super
against just singing the Psalms,

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but he actually struggled that
in the Psalms.

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He would like them to be more
Christ centered.

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Like maybe it he would say
implicitly talk a lot.

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About every scripture type of
thing, yes.

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And he was saying it's implicit,
but it's not explicit.

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He would actually rewrite hymns
and where it was maybe a little

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vague, he would like change it
for Christ like he would like.

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That's how he kind of started
writing some of these hymns.

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Oh, so he took existing hymns?
And built off of them or psalms

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took psalms and built and tried
to bring Christ into him.

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00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,840
He thought some of the psalms
for music were a little too

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literal.
Tried to put some like imagery

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00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:53,800
on it for for singing.
And so his goal was to take

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00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,120
Psalms and he would say wanted
to write it in the language of

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the New Testament by importing
Christ more clearly.

233
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,520
I think all of us would say,
yeah, it's talking about Christ,

234
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but maybe it doesn't say Jesus
Christ.

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00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:08,800
And you know every Psalm, right?
And so with that being said, he

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based this joy to the world on
Psalm 98.

237
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He actually had a collection of
hymns called the Psalms of David

238
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,120
imitated in the language of the
New Testament.

239
00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,720
What a name of a of like a
collection of hymns.

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So maybe we can look at Psalm
98, see what it says.

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00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:26,640
Maybe we can be looking for
those parallels Maybe.

242
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,200
We can only only if it's a
chiasm.

243
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:30,640
If it's a chiasm, shut this
down.

244
00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:33,680
Yeah, go ahead.
Go ahead and read.

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00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:35,200
And I don't know if we need to
do this, Michael.

246
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,400
We might.
I don't know if you want to

247
00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,920
also, you know, if people don't
know joy to the world like we

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can, like most people probably
know it.

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You know, I don't know if it's
worth like saying like the first

250
00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:45,080
verse or something.
I don't know.

251
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,160
Joy to the world.
The Lord has come.

252
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:54,440
Let Earth receive her king, let
every heart prepare him room,

253
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,560
and heaven and nature sing.
I forget the next.

254
00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:00,280
Part and heaven and nature sing.
And heaven and nature sing yes.

255
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,760
Next one start, verse 2 starts
out joy to the earth.

256
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The Savior reigns.
Savior reigns.

257
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,320
Our mortal songs employ while
fields and floods, rocks, hills

258
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,840
and plains.
Repeat the sounding joy.

259
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:14,120
Yeah.
Repeat the sounding.

260
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:14,840
Yeah.
It's great.

261
00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,680
Third verse No more.
Let sins and sorrows grow north,

262
00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:22,200
thorns infest the ground.
He comes to make his blessings

263
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,200
flow far as the curse is found.
A lot of people I think we skip.

264
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:26,680
It's like a hymn thing.
You skip verse.

265
00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:28,120
Three, you don't want verse 3
it.

266
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,880
Was like first, second and last.
We used to always be like first,

267
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,160
second and last, you know?
You know, and then bring us home

268
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,240
with the final verse.
Yeah, yeah, he rules the world

269
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,320
with truth and grace.
Let men their songs employ.

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00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:42,960
This one.
Is.

271
00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:50,000
Read it to me and makes the.
Nations prove, yeah, the glories

272
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,360
of his love, righteousness,
righteousness.

273
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,440
But and wonders of his.
Love and wonders of his love

274
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:55,840
there.
We go so, so that's we're

275
00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,880
familiar with this.
Let's see, you know how old?

276
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:00,720
I'm curious how well it matches
up with Psalm 90.

277
00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:01,360
Eight.
Yeah, yeah.

278
00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,520
So you want me to read Psalm 98?
I sent our notes, do you want me

279
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,080
to read it from from your notes?
If it depends, you want NASB or

280
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:10,680
ESBI, don't know.
I don't know which version I did

281
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:12,720
the notes in all right.
So I'll just read it from the

282
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,560
notes.
It says, O sing to the Lord a

283
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:16,480
new song.
For He has done wonderful

284
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,720
things.
His right hand and his holy arm

285
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,120
have gained the victory for him.
The Lord has made known his

286
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,560
salvation, and he or his
salvation, He has revealed his

287
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:28,760
righteousness in the sight of
the nations.

288
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,320
He has remembered his loving
kindness and his faithfulness to

289
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,920
the House of Israel.
All the ends of the earth have

290
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,160
seen the salvation of our God.
Shout joyfully to the Lord.

291
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,560
All the earth break forth and
sing for joy and sing praises.

292
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,840
Sing praises to the Lord with a
liar, with a liar and the sound

293
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,280
of melody with trumpets.
In the sound of the horn.

294
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,280
Shout joyfully before the king.
The Lord.

295
00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,720
Let the sea roar, and all it
contains the world and those who

296
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,280
dwell in it.
Let the rivers clap their hands.

297
00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,920
Let the mountain sing together
for joy before the Lord, for He

298
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:03,360
is coming to judge the earth.
He will judge the world with

299
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,000
righteousness and the peoples
with equity.

300
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,680
And you know, I was thinking, I
bet it would have been better to

301
00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:12,280
read it in the good old King.
I bet I bet it would have more

302
00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,720
overlaps, like more specifically
just based on the time.

303
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,880
But you can even in reading it,
you can like see like nature,

304
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,960
you see all the themes kind of
you're like, oh, I can see what

305
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:23,760
he was doing.
He's trying to stay very close

306
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,920
to the Psalms, but make it like
you're not singing the Psalm,

307
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,080
you're singing a song.
And it's very close.

308
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,920
It's not like he's departed.
But you can see how that might

309
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,960
be a little bit easier to sing
than iambic Pentanner going

310
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,480
through where it's like, you
know, but also very edgy in his

311
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,040
day.
But you see, you know the Lord

312
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,720
coming to judge the earth, the
righteousness, the equity, and

313
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,320
then jumps off the page.
All creation rejoices.

314
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,760
Where are the wise men here in
this or the shepherds?

315
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,080
Yeah, Where's the.
Yeah, Where is this?

316
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,800
Where's the Motel 6?
He's missing a He's missing a

317
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,360
lot of the beats, you know, for
a Christmas song.

318
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,640
Got the seas roaring, the field
singing, the hills rejoicing.

319
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,720
If we wanted to, we could go and
make the connection, but I think

320
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,280
we can really see.
But like you said, no.

321
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,160
No, no, there's no major scene.
It's not even like, you know,

322
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,040
Isaiah and the suffering
Servant, You know, people who

323
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,520
are our, you know, stripes, my,
my stripes who are healed or all

324
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,040
of us like sheep have gone
astray.

325
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,280
Every man's turned in his own
way and our iniquity's been laid

326
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,280
upon him.
It's not even that type of

327
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,200
imagery.
It is, it is pretty crazy 'cause

328
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,360
it's it's so to me, Joy to the
World is like boom Christmas, no

329
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,920
questions asked.
But it doesn't hit and it's not,

330
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,600
there's not a lot of, you know,
I think joy to the joy to the

331
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,280
world, the Lord has come and
you're like, OK, I can see that

332
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,560
being Christmassy, but you keep
on going through and it's like

333
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:54,040
more of a rain and judging and
equity and not as much.

334
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:55,800
So what?
What I hear is this not even

335
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,840
really an Easter song either.
Right, right.

336
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,680
This is a this is a
resurrection, second coming of

337
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,960
the Lord song.
So we should like, pair this

338
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,200
with, you know, Hymn of Heaven
from Phil Wickham.

339
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:07,240
Yeah, there you go.
Yeah.

340
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,680
We should have a Sunday that is
all about the premillennial

341
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,640
reign of Christ, and then we
should sing the song Hey.

342
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,880
How how fitting because it is
focused on things like Christ

343
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,520
reign, Christ judging and and
the renewal of creation.

344
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,400
Like all of these things like
these beats are just like that's

345
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,760
why we're making a joyful noise
to the Lord.

346
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,040
Like you said, we're not in
Bethlehem.

347
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,760
No shepherds, no angels.
The incarnation narrative isn't

348
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,520
laid out.
But at the same time, at

349
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,200
Christmas, it's OK to celebrate
the arrival of the game.

350
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:42,880
Like no.
And so just like everything

351
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:44,880
else, I feel like a good answer
in Christianity is to say

352
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:46,640
already and not yet.
That's like, that's like a good

353
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,000
place to.
Be it?

354
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,000
Is it?
Is now it's it's very fitting

355
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,680
where, you know, we get the
hints in the first coming of the

356
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:58,120
second coming.
And this is kind of where where

357
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,680
we we sit, where joy of the
world isn't necessarily about

358
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:05,200
Christ being born, but it's
about Christ taking his throne,

359
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:10,280
judging, reigning and all
creation becoming new.

360
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,400
So is it OK?
Are we just like can take it out

361
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,240
of the rotation or it's close
enough We can, we can keep it in

362
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,119
there?
Yeah, I mean, you don't get

363
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,280
Christ's second coming if you
don't get this first coming.

364
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,040
That that's that's.
Very true.

365
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,400
You can't.
Just so you know, he the first

366
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,880
sets up the 2nd and you know,
the 1st is what we're

367
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,400
celebrating at Christmas.
But I think I have mentioned

368
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,040
from while we sing it, you know,
yeah, this is not really a

369
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,240
Christmas song.
This is more of a Christ return

370
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,880
song.
I like that you get like the big

371
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,480
picture too, where, you know,
Christmas, it's not just like I

372
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,280
think sometimes you're like, oh
man, we're singing away in the

373
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,560
Manger and these things.
It's like truth, but it it's

374
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:58,480
like sentimental where this is
more like cosmic and scope where

375
00:17:58,480 --> 00:17:59,880
kind.
Of connects with the song that I

376
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,520
ended with for House the
Holidays, which you you can tell

377
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:04,720
us all about since you were
there.

378
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,800
I was right there in the back.
I was I was with your kids at

379
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,720
the at your other kids recital.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

380
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:12,680
Tell us what?
What was the song you?

381
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,400
Posted it's called In the First
Light.

382
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,440
The lyrics are basically like in
the first light of the new day.

383
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,720
No one knew he had arrived.
And then it goes on to say, you

384
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:26,240
know, heaven knew what happened.
Mary wondered about it.

385
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:30,000
He would tell them of his
Kingdom, but their hearts

386
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,400
wouldn't believe.
They would hate him, and they'd

387
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,560
kneel into a tree.
And then there's this big

388
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,480
crescendo of kind of like the
death scene, but then it's like,

389
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:43,600
but the sadness is broken
because the song of the new day

390
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:48,800
is going to arise, and the first
born of creation will send and

391
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,240
take his throne.
And then it keeps on going, you

392
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,520
know, You know, And then at the
very end of the song, it makes

393
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,800
this comparison between, you
know, how great it would be to

394
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:02,520
hear the Angel singing his
birth, but how much greater when

395
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,960
he come to these pictures?
This is.

396
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,960
I love this, Yeah.
Yeah, I do not like if you knew

397
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,160
this podcast, not a big Lord of
the Rings fan, not a not a big

398
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,360
like fiction person.
And really I feel 'cause I feel

399
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:16,960
like the Bible's good enough for
me.

400
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,680
Michael No, I'm just kidding.
But I feel like for someone who

401
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,880
doesn't like these things, I I
love these pictures.

402
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,480
See the Bible that it's like you
see like this foreshadowing.

403
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,200
It's like all this stuff is
like, so cool.

404
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:33,920
You're almost there 'cause great
fiction, it trades off of the

405
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,720
real themes of history and
you're like, I just need the

406
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,200
real themes, history.
Yeah, I know, I know.

407
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:39,360
It's like and I'm not like
super.

408
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:44,760
I'm not anti fiction.
I just have a hard time with I

409
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:45,920
have a hard time with like
elves.

410
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,880
This is this is the thing like
point of ears like like I'm not

411
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,880
good at like the alternate.
Don't say it like that.

412
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,520
I I hate other races.
Well.

413
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,880
Other races in the real meaning
of the word races, because yeah,

414
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:02,000
how we use race is not really.
A it's, it's like goblins or I

415
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,800
don't, I don't know what it is.
It's something about that where?

416
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,960
You're you can't suspend
disbelief.

417
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,680
Yeah, it's too weird for me
where it's like I need, I need

418
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,440
to like, it's hard for me to
like get invested.

419
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,200
Have we talked about the book
that Frank Turek and Sean

420
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:24,480
McDowell Co wrote?
And it basically compared these

421
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:31,400
great fantasy novels of Narnia,
Harry Potter, Dang Lord of the

422
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,320
Rings, maybe a couple other
ones, maybe even some of the DC

423
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,000
Comics and stuff.
And they just showed the

424
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,120
typographies like you cannot,
like you can the best stories

425
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:45,040
ever told.
They have to trade on these

426
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:50,120
themes from reality, you know?
You know, the sacrifice for

427
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:53,720
other people type of thing, the
glorious return, You know, all

428
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,640
those, those tropes.
And those are always good.

429
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,000
Like I I when I watched Super
her movie when I was younger,

430
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,760
it's like you love all those
things, so maybe I'm coming

431
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,120
around to, but I'm like, man, I
why do I need the trope?

432
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:05,320
When I'm in the millennial
reign, you'll you'll you'll

433
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,560
start reading some Pansy.
Get in the movie theater, it's

434
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,960
like, and also, and where I have
even a harder problem is like,

435
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:18,080
I'm such I'm such a spoiled
brat, but it's like into the

436
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:19,360
Louvre.
It's fine.

437
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:21,760
Like it's great.
It's fine.

438
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:22,960
It was fine.
I was like, it was good.

439
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,640
But it's like the Mona Lisa.
I'm just like a lot of people

440
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,800
gather around this tiny picture.
I don't get it.

441
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:29,560
Like I can see that from my
computer.

442
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,360
Screen.
Yeah, it's it's it's the I I

443
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:34,320
have no appreciate like I'm not
an artist.

444
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,160
I wish I was.
You think I would?

445
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:37,880
Respect the camera and tell
Chloe.

446
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,520
See, Chloe should tell me
because you think I would

447
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,640
respect it more because I'm so
poor at it.

448
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,760
Like I do respect it.
Like, oh, that's amazing.

449
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,160
We don't do that.
But I'm like, I don't know.

450
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,160
I don't, I don't, I don't get,
and this is a different story.

451
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:51,880
This is what I've heard.
I don't know if this is true,

452
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,840
though.
The Mona Lisa is only really

453
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,400
popular because it was stolen at
one time from the Louvre.

454
00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,800
It helped like give it some
notoriety.

455
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,000
And then it got even more
popular.

456
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:06,240
I don't know, conspiracy, but
joy to the world bringing it

457
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,120
back, connecting.
I like this.

458
00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:12,080
I like these connections, like
talk about a baby and a Manger,

459
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,200
but talk about a king, like, you
know, we should be thinking

460
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,960
about these things.
Not not mutually exclusive, you

461
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:21,800
know, So joy to the world, I
think think a good song as we're

462
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,120
focusing on incarnation.
But you know, with our eye, we

463
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,680
we know what has happened and
what will happen.

464
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,680
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Yeah.

465
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:33,120
And I think it helps you, you
know, just connect those things,

466
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:36,600
'cause when you sing it at
Christmas and you come across

467
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,760
those words, I remember, well, I
remember coming across those

468
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,000
words as youngsters going, oh,
what's going on here?

469
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,600
But maybe it can help you think
just beyond Christmas itself,

470
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,120
You know, if you're paying
attention to what you're saying.

471
00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:49,760
That that's true.
Yeah, that's true.

472
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,440
That's very, very good point.
And you know, Joy World's great

473
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,480
at just the repeat thing where
you at least catch the, you

474
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,160
know, you got to you got to
think about the words a little.

475
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,920
Especially if you're singing
parts, because if you're singing

476
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,600
the bass or tenor part I think
it even repeats more.

477
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:06,920
Yeah, there you go.
Repeat the sound.

478
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,080
This is great.
So some reflection questions.

479
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,280
Do you think of Jesus more as a
as a baby than a king at

480
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,520
Christmas in particular?
I think maybe some people that's

481
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,720
like the default.
I think a lot of places,

482
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,600
churches, they do a good job of
providing some commentary, you

483
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,400
know, giving the framing it, you
know, in the.

484
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:28,160
Larger context Jesus more as a
this is going to sound bad.

485
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,480
Can I use this word, stodgy
rabbi, like a really tough

486
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,280
rabbi.
That would be like, why don't

487
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,560
you know this?
Why?

488
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,920
Why is your face so small?
Like, like, you know, like he's

489
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,400
tough sometimes on his apostles.
Yeah.

490
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,320
You know, it's, it's true.
People don't.

491
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,360
I love tough in general when
we're, you know, cleansing the

492
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,400
temple.
Not only is he like pulling out

493
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,240
the whip, but he's like
fashioning the whip.

494
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,400
Like he's got to make the whip.
It's like he's got to be

495
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,640
premeditated.
Like like it's like this is such

496
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,600
a big deal that I'm going to
make a whip right in front of

497
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,160
everyone and do this.
That's like crazy.

498
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,880
It is crazy.
So yeah, Greg Koval recently has

499
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,680
talked about praying.
He's like, I find my heart drawn

500
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,560
more to the Father 'cause I pray
to him than I do actually to

501
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,640
Jesus, 'cause I don't normally
pray to Jesus as much.

502
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,200
And so I feel like I have an
intimacy with the Father that I

503
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,720
don't necessarily have with the
person Jesus.

504
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,520
Like, and we know that
ontologically, you know, the

505
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,480
Trinity's one being and stuff
like that.

506
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,720
But yeah, it's just odd how you
you have these mental I.

507
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,600
Think that's very true, yeah.
Where it's just like

508
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,480
functionally you just gravitate
because you do.

509
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,000
It's it that does have to frame
how you think of every single

510
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,760
prayer is like heavenly Father
and like that's just like, you

511
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,720
know, all associated with that.
Right, right.

512
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,760
Great, so next time you sing Joy
to the world, you know, keep

513
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,320
keep this in mind that the king
has come, but he is also coming

514
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,200
again.
Also, it's one of these hymns

515
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,760
that a lot of hymns don't lean
into the whole judgement theme.

516
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,600
You know, this does it in a good
way.

517
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,800
You know what I mean?
Like it talks about him judging.

518
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,000
It's strong, doesn't.
Make the nations prove the

519
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,000
glories of his righteousness.
Right That was.

520
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:16,560
Yeah, that's.
Right.

521
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,160
That's right, yeah, where you
just don't.

522
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:23,480
Some of that I think can be lost
a little bit in culture and it's

523
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,480
a little bit I think that is a
pro of pulling stuff from the

524
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,520
Psalms a little bit.
You get well-rounded.

525
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,880
I would have loved for like
Chris Tomlin.

526
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,160
That'd be great.
Just have like the like side be

527
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,960
imprecatory Psalms like whatever
and just like just like all of.

528
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,080
Them that way.
But it is good, good, good

529
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:42,160
bounce.
And reading this, I was like,

530
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:43,960
man, I know, I know a little bit
about Isaac Watch, but I was

531
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,280
like, I wanna get I wanna read
more about this.

532
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:48,960
And I didn't realize he was such
an innovator.

533
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,240
I knew he wrote a lot of Psalms,
but I didn't know he was like

534
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,480
changing the game, doing some
research.

535
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,600
This will be like in the future,
but Martin Luther versus Calvin.

536
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,280
If you can imagine very
different views on singing,

537
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,240
where you can guess which side
did Martin Luther take, He

538
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,160
wrote.
Yeah, I would think he'd be

539
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:08,760
like, let's sing.
Yep, that's right.

540
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,440
Mighty Fortress is our God
versus, you know, Calvin's like

541
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,920
get it out of here.
But this is good.

542
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,800
I'm excited to to talk more
about this, but anything else

543
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,800
you want to talk about
specifically on Joy to the

544
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,280
World?
No, I think, I think this has

545
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,120
been good.
And it's good to just, you know,

546
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,960
remind ourselves because
honestly, you can sing really

547
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,880
any song anytime if it's about
Christ.

548
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,680
And so, yeah, but, you know, be
thinking about, you know, the

549
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,520
fullness of Christ's and his
mission during this time, not

550
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,240
just, you know, him being the
baby.

551
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,800
Totally joy to the world.
Think about it.

552
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,640
That's all I have.
That's all Michael has.

553
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,160
That's our take.
Thanks for listening to Take

554
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,400
Two.
Find us wherever you find

555
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,880
podcasts and on YouTube for
those who want to watch our

556
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:00,560
video cast.