What is Biblical Counseling?

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We are live and in person.
Man, and it's not, not with if

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you're watching the video, not
with Paul Washer.

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Well, you might, you might
think.

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So from the mayor, have we
started yet?

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We're going to this.
We're doing it just checking.

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Can you tell them who I am?
Yeah, we will tell you the new

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card.
This is Timothy.

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Yes, Lawrence and in the back in
the background, you might hear

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Pastor Jill Celkone going off
our audience member he.

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He's getting we do have a live
audience.

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A real kick.
Tim, what's your middle name?

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Wayne.
Wayne did.

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People call you Timmy when you
were little.

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Up till I was 13 and then they
stopped because I didn't want

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them too.
You grew up in Kentucky.

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No, no, I grew up in Chicago.
It was my parents that were in

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Eastern Kentucky.
And earlier tonight we were

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eating at a restaurant and I saw
a gentleman with a hat on and it

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had a red male bovine with horns
coming up like that had this

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word Chicago Bulls.
Yeah.

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Did you watch?
Them, Arizona, the three peat,

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the six peat.
By the way, you need to define

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bovine because I'm from.
I didn't mean to put people down

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with Kentucky.
Yeah.

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Wow, great, great start.
Yeah, I've just lost half the

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audience.
Kentucky is a big, big watcher,

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no?
Kentucky has some valuable

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things, but anyway, so.
So I saw this guy with Chicago

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and I almost said something at
the dinner table, but I didn't

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and I'm glad I didn't because I
saved it.

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Because do you have any opinions
on who the greatest basketball?

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Player of all time didn't go
there.

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Absolutely.
It's Michael Jordan.

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He was and he demonstrated his
glory on the basketball field

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and we're going to be talking
about counseling and glory.

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And 10:10 yeah, this sort of
thing. 10/10/10 Michael's trying

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to get me riled up.
Well, I don't even, I don't even

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have one.
Get down this road.

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It's not about who has the most
points per game, it's who can

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play sick.
Yeah.

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The final.
Game can play sick.

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That's what you didn't.
Play sick.

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Have you ever heard of that with
all the other?

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Who's the other people you think
are better than him?

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I you know, Michael Jordan's
great.

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I've seen Michael Jordan play
live before.

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But have you?
Have you?

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You might have you.
Live in person.

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In person.
He didn't play for the Wizards

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at the time, so he was just a
shade of himself.

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So that's like, that's what I
that's what I grew up, you know,

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watching him play on the
Wizards.

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I was like 7 when he retired in
98.

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So like, I watched a little bit,
but I wasn't.

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Did you watch Chicago White Sox
baseball with Michael Jordan?

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I didn't.
Yeah, he got involved some like

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gambling stuff and some crazy
stuff.

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Michael's got a conspiracy
theory, but we won't go into

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that.
Why he why he retired for a year

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or.
So it was different.

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Yeah, it probably was gambling.
They probably said we'll let you

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retire and you got to be out of
the sport for a little bit and

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they came back and repeated.
But either what I what I'm

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trying to do here is talk about
counseling.

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Not all about the banter.
He's like, let's, let's just go

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ahead and move it.
We are, I guess we can go into.

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So we we're here here to talk
about counseling.

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Are you a wonderful counselor?
Well, I'm a which I hope is I do

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wonderful through the Lord
thing.

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And today we're going to fix
Zach.

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I hear so.
I'm a nest him, you can fix me

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nothing.
Nothing's too hard for God.

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That's great.
Maybe we should get out of this,

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but we, we don't know.
We didn't even set him up and he

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he may not be a regular
listener.

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He probably doesn't.
Tim, Tim, Tim's a little big

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time for us.
We should say.

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He's got like 1000 YouTube
subscribers.

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He's a director of a counseling
center, you know, But we, we do.

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Have you ever watched anything
that I produced?

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I.
I have.

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Oh well, good.
Never.

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Mind.
Well, what Michael's getting at

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is we have a a tagline when we
get into the meat of the podcast

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that that if we have a guest on,
they have to say it.

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We always have them say.
What is the tag line?

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Let's take it to the next level.
So let's take it to the.

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And what's also important is in
your best Paul wash your

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impression, stare into the
camera and say it.

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That camera.
Right, let's take it to the next

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level.
That's great.

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Let's fire up that twanga music.
From the hearts of the Low

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Country in South Carolina.
It's the Take Two podcast where

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we take theology to the next
level.

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Tim, you are a counselor.
That's right.

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And you probably know the back
and forwards of the D3.

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Is that what it is?
The 3D?

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What it the that thick book of
everything that's wrong with

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everyone?
Oh, DSM.

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DSD SM-5, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is that what you live by?

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Is that?
You live in.

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Diagnostics.
That's the Bible of it.

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It's the Diagnostic Statistic
manual built by psychiatrists,

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and psychologists use it also.
And that's what you do everyday.

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I don't use that as the basis,
but it does show a symptoms and

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it tries to categorize if
they're lonely labels, they're

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not prescriptive.
They're they're not, they're

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just descriptive.
Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, and and even like to back
up a little bit about biblical

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counseling you what, what are
your fancy certification ACBC

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that's like a specific type.
Association certified biblical

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counselors.
There's also IABC.

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So yeah, that it's.
Go ahead, Michael.

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Well, I was going to say, maybe
you can give us some broad

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distinctions between what we
what someone might call secular

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counseling and then Christian
counseling and then one from

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there maybe separate because
there's not all Christian

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counselors are the same.
So maybe you can kind of give us

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some distinctives there.
What makes you know ACBC

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formally Nank All right, right.
It used to be called nank,

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national associate of of
neutetic counselor, which is the

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word admonish in Colossians 3
and Romans 15 about you.

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I believe you're full of
goodness and knowledge, and

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you're competent to nuthiteo or
admonish or counsel one another.

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Romans 15 so.
So maybe broad distinctions

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between secular counseling and
Christian counseling?

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Yeah.
Well, methods, goals,

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motivation.
Maybe that's one way to identify

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it.
We all counselors have goals,

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methods, motivation.
The biblical counselor informs

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their methods and motivations
and goals by what God has said

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or revealed of himself and the
gospel in Christ and and it

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becomes wisdom.
Now for the counselor.

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So a secular therapist or a
psychologist would use methods

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that may parallel some of what
we do, but their goals will be

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different.
They'll their goals primarily

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will be to help you function
based on what the standard

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culture acceptability is.
So if we move into the realm of

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let's say sexuality, a
psychologist not informed by

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scripture, their their goal is
going to be to help you self

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actualize and the Christian, the
biblical counselors in Scripture

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is going to help you be
transformed into the image of

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Christ.
And then motivation is big, you

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know, not just goals and
methods, but because I think

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later we'll talk about methods
and we'd fix that here, but I'm

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going to really dig deep for
methodology.

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But when we talk about
motivation, you know, that's the

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engine that drives the change,
right?

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So what will change people's
motivation?

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To stop being angry, to stop
being depressed, and to love, to

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anxiety?
What will motivate them to

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overcome all that as they're
producing that goal?

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And for the Christian, we have,
we have motivation that the

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world doesn't even have a way to
see it.

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We see the glory or value of
Christ.

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We see the value of what's
coming in the future, and we see

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we have good insights into that.
And so we can teach people to

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have security because of the
security of God, but a secular

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counselor would be trying to
help you find it in yourself.

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Or let's remove all the negative
people from your life, even if

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you're married to them, so that
you can have more comforting and

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less anger.
So circumstances are

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motivational to the biblical to
the secular counselor and self.

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I mean, the, the greatest
audience of an individual to the

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secular counselor unaided by
scripture would be self.

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You can't make it other people
because that's where you get

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into codependence.
You know that.

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But for the Christian, it's the
person of God, the personal

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nature of God.
And there's a 5 year old girl.

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And this, this is one of the
best examples of how when you

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get the engine in place, you can
go places that you couldn't go

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otherwise in dealing with
anxiety.

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And so I remember she came in
and she was very nervous about

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being having done wrong.
And she was always asking her

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mom, I think I did wrong.
Just now when you told me to

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help my little sister, I think I
helped her fall down.

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So she had this obsessive
compulsive struggle.

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And it was sad because she was
just terrorized by this and

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depressed at five years old.
And I remember looking at her

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and just think saying, I've got
one big thing I want to say to

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you.
And I began to just to share

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with her, do you know who God
is?

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I didn't even talk about because
I heard enough, you know who God

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is.
And I just don't think secular

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counselors would go right there,
right.

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And so when I did that, I said
to her four things.

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I said, God is and we drew a
picture.

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I said God is a he's a king.
You know what kings do?

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And she said they do whatever
they want.

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I said that's.
Right, that's a good definition.

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That's really good.
I said God is a father and her

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dad was standing right there and
he was a good, good father.

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I said, what's what's your
father like?

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And she told us a good thing.
I said God is even better than

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that.
And then I said he also is a

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creator, Redeemer.
That means he creates out of

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nothing and he turns bad into
good no matter what for those

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are his.
And the last thing is, and we're

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drawing pictures.
I said he's a judge.

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I said, what do judges do?
She didn't have a good answer.

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And I said they put you in
prison, you know, among other

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things, but you know they.
And I said, do you ever judge

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yourself?
And it was like the light turned

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on for a little 5 year old.
She can, yeah, that's what she's

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doing left and right.
I said, what does God judge you

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for doing?
And she said, I think sometimes

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I may push down my sister or
whatever.

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And I said, does God judge you
for that?

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And she kind of shrugged her
shoulders, but we were at the

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right question.
Right, right.

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Well, at least we're talking
about God in light of her

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challenge instead of just
talking about herself.

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And how, you know, cognitive
therapy tries to help you change

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your thoughts, right?
But if you could change your

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thoughts in light of God, it's
better.

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But you have to have your eyes
open.

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And if you have the Holy Spirit,
you have salvation, you have the

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potential.
And so I'm a I'm even a hopeless

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romantic, but even you have to
change.

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I was listening to Al Muller
recently and he was talking

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about, you know, California, I
think Colorado, maybe others

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passed this law where you can't
counsel someone even if they

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want you to, to help them deal
with certain sexual things.

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And this is going to go up to
the Supreme Court under the

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guise of the 1st Amendment.
Are really aware that that's

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happening.
Comparative therapy is one of.

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The and he was started.
In California.

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From, from a Christian
standpoint, like yes, someone is

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struggling with same sex
attraction.

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We want to do that.
But even more than that, we want

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to transform them into the image
of Christ.

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We want to have them, you know,
turn from all their sin And, and

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it's, I think that's just a
bigger focus than what the world

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can have.
Yeah, there's actually 20 / 20

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states that have that as a law
now.

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That's if you're a counselor.
You cannot counsel someone even

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if they come to you and want to
be repaired, as it were, and go

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back to what they're
biologically identification is.

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But pastors still often can do
it because they're not

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technically considered
counselors.

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So if you're not a professional,
you can help them, but if you're

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a professional counselor, then
you can't.

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Yeah, it's one of those like, so
crazy in the physical therapy

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world.
It's like you almost don't want

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to be a personal trainer because
there's like more expected of.

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It's like you can get into
lawsuits and stuff way easier

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because you know what I mean?
Yeah.

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You're a physical therapist.
You should have known better.

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Yes, exactly.
Trainer.

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They don't.
Yeah, some trainers are great,

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but you know, Yeah, yeah.
That's why when people come to

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us for counseling at the center,
they fill out a distinctive they

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and it just declares that we use
the Bible.

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We're not going to use
psychological methods, goals,

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motivations, and that they have
to understand that so that it's

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clear there.
We say we had no idea that you

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weren't going to tell us it was
OK to do AB and C.

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Well, we're going to counsel the
Bible.

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Man and I, I really appreciate
it.

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You, you always kind of go to
those four different ways at

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looking at God.
I think it's, I think there's so

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many attributes of God you can
like as there, you know, you'll

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lose count.
But if you like have those

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paradigms that think through
that kind of helps capture all

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of them and always putting, I
always feel like you can you

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know more about this than I do,
but you go to a counselor.

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There's if all I did was talk
about myself, I feel like that

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would make me worse.
Like I don't want to just talk

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about my.
It's like almost amplifies all

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these problems like me, me, me,
me, me and not.

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You know, Zach, there's been
many times that husbands will

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come in and they'll say, my
counselor told me that I have

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low self esteem and that's why I
get angry and I don't right away

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say, well, actually you have
high self esteem because they're

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not going to understand that.
I need to see if they got eyes

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and I need to try to help their
eyes open.

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So I start talking about the
humility of Christ.

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So that's another glory.
That's the fifth one, the

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humility of Christ.
Philippians 2.

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And we just start talking about
that and talk about how he let

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go of his throne, lay down His
rights, became a servant,

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entered our world, became
obedient to the point of death.

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And in light of that, do you
value that?

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Do you do?
What do you think of Christ?

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Humility.
Are you humble like that?

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Because I'm not perfectly
humble.

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And when we get angry, usually
it's about us.

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And some guys really have
responded to that.

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The story of the tax collector
and Pharisee, where they're

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going up to the temple to pray.
One couple came in, they were

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Catholic and you know, they had
an understanding and they were

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coming to therapy.
And then here I show up, you

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know, I'm not a therapist, but I
do want to help.

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And I got practical, persuasive
ways that will help.

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So I just looked and I I said,
let's turn to Luke 18.

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And I read this verse right
away.

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I said Jesus told this parable
to those who look down on others

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and thought themselves
righteous, and I just looked at

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him.
I said, do you guys ever look

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00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,400
down on each other and think
you're more right than the

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other?
Yeah, well, he's about to tell

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00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,520
you something.
So we went through the Pharisee

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00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:37,960
and we went through the tax
collector and I finished and I

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00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:43,240
said, which one are you more
like when you get in a fight?

305
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,920
Are you more like a Pharisee or
more like the tax collector and

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00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,640
those little moments or again,
you're defining a goal.

307
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You got a method, you're using
the Bible, kind of meditating on

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00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:57,040
it.
You're going to let him take it

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home and help him dwell in it
better.

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00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:02,720
But then your motivation is
turned on.

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Now you're you're seeing if
there's a live wire is what I

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00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,680
call it, You know, are they
plugged into the source of this?

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So yeah.
So let's say there was a person

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out there listening to the
podcast and they're like, oh, I,

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00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,319
I would like a Christian
counselor to help me with fill

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00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:28,600
in the blank.
But not all counselors who go by

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00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,000
the name Christian are
necessarily created equal.

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I remember my mom went to a
counselor who said he was

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00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,280
Christian, but it's nothing like
what you're doing.

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And frankly, I ran into a
counselor, I won't give too many

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00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,560
details recently, who said she
was a Christian counselor.

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00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,400
And the things that she was
saying sounded really very

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00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,760
similar to what you might hear
from secular counselor.

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00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,160
So can you kind of tease that
apart, not necessarily trying to

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00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,120
drag them through the mud, but
there are there are real

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00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:01,560
differences distinctives between
different types of counselors.

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00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:07,520
Yeah, we may call that
integration where there's a

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00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:12,720
there's a bad integration of
their Christianity and the

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solving of people's problems.
And on a 50,000 foot level, I

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00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:23,920
think we would say first Peter
411 whoever speaks, let him

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speak the words of God and
whoever serves, let him serve by

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the power that God supplies so
that in all things God may be

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00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:34,160
glorified.
So that to me is my first

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00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,560
question, if I'm looking for a
counselor or anyone that deals

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00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,480
with problems and help me solve
them from a emotional or

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00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:49,360
cognitive area, I would say, do
they build what they say on the

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00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:57,960
wisdom of God's word or and do
they seek to depend on the power

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that God supplies?
Well, how is that going to show

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00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,440
up?
Well, just sit in first session

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00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,080
and see what happens.
You know, I'm not saying we

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00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,600
flood the person with scriptures
right away, but you're going to

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be listening and caring.
But at some point you're going

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to turn a corner and maybe
you'll bring up Luke 18 or

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00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:17,960
you'll bring up first
Philippians 2 or something on

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00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,040
who God is.
What's the subject of your

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00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,800
counseling?
Is it the person or is it God

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00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:30,800
and his wisdom?
So integrationist, you know,

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fundamentally combined.
So is what is man?

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Is he a machine that needs A and
he's got a biological court

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going on and so we're going to
deal with the body primarily as

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00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:56,640
a counselor or are we or is he a
conditioned animal that he's

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been through suffering and
they're real and that's tough

353
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and you do get conditioned.
God says that there's a reality

354
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,360
to that, but is he primarily
that?

355
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,040
Is that really what the biggest
problem is?

356
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:12,800
Is he needs to be reconditioned
or is it that ultimately he was

357
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created to know and glorify God?
And he's struggling to know how

358
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to do it in this.
So a integrationist was, if we

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00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,560
call it that a fundamental
integrationist is going to get

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00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:31,560
messed up in thinking that let
me do some kind of therapy on

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00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,960
you to help you be
reconditioned, but it's not

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00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,160
necessarily reaching the God
part of the guy that the person

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00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,160
they're helping.
And so without that, God isn't

364
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,960
any glory and the person isn't
going to be changed in the image

365
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,520
of Christ.
So I think that that is one way

366
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:52,040
to, to understand it, you know,
that that what is integration,

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00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,120
what it, what is a Christian
counselor?

368
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:59,000
Are there methods that we could
use that the secularist has come

369
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:04,520
up with?
Well, probably my son when he

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00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,760
was younger, Isaac, who's now
older, He he's came to me, said,

371
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,400
Dad, you're better than Doctor
Phil.

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Do you remember Doctor Phil?
Yeah, and so I I didn't watch

373
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,320
him much, but after about.
Doctor Schlesinger, you remember

374
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:19,880
her?
Yeah, Laura.

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00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,840
Yeah, Laura Schlesinger.
Yeah, yeah, but Doctor Phil, too

376
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,200
old for you.
Man, I know, Doctor.

377
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,320
Phil though, yeah, sorry, Zach,
we're still getting there

378
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:34,400
helping you out.
But yeah, so I, I watched Doctor

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00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,680
Phil after Isaac said that just
to kind of because I hadn't

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00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,760
watched much of it.
And he was on a doing marriage

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00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,440
counseling on this show,
whatever that was.

382
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,000
And he was talking about the 10
most important, two most

383
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,360
important times in the day with
your marriage, Wake up, go to

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00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:53,840
bed.
And so he gave those out and he

385
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,480
gave ideas what to do.
Those are methods.

386
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,240
You mean?
I thought, well, I could use

387
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:00,920
those.
And I have something like that,

388
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,160
you know, and I know that the
methods of psychology can go

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00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,320
deeper.
There's EMDR therapy that we

390
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,800
could talk about where they're
trying to retrain the way your

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00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:13,280
brain processes neurological
pathways because you've been

392
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,880
stimulated by past trauma.
So it gets kind of heady.

393
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,280
But in the bottom line is if
those methods, if those

394
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:28,320
cognitive methods are informed
by scripture.

395
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,080
In other words, what are you
going to meditate on when you

396
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,680
someone in DMDR therapy that'll
take you back through some

397
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,000
childhood experiences right now.
I don't I've never done that in

398
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,360
counseling.
I don't think it's necessary

399
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:43,920
from what I've seen people
change a little girl at 5, you

400
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,760
know, whatever.
But I will say that if you

401
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,080
choose to do that when you
recreate that moment where the

402
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,760
neurology in the brain is got
that pathway of fear and I think

403
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,320
it's explaining it is now that's
why you're struggling.

404
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,960
Wouldn't it be good to talk like
I did to that five year old

405
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,840
daughter about who God is in
that moment.

406
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:07,760
If there's anything to that,
then let's put in the reality of

407
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,640
the most important thing, God
not.

408
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,720
And sometimes the question in
your therapy is how did you want

409
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,880
to feel?
Let yourself feel that.

410
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,640
I mean, it's just like, OK, is
that what I'm going to do in

411
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,560
counseling?
And for me, no.

412
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:30,640
And it's primarily because God
has something I believe and I've

413
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:36,880
experienced and seen that is
more substantial and not just

414
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:42,360
changing neurology or chemistry,
but changing your soul's

415
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:48,560
condition, you know, which is in
charge of the synthesis of the

416
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,880
brain.
So we are a body, we are a soul,

417
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,720
and we are conditioned.
What are we going to focus on?

418
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,280
What should we be?
It depends on are you a

419
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:05,800
Christian that wants to glorify
God most in this or are you just

420
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:10,560
wanting to help people with what
tools are available outside of

421
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,320
the spirits work.
Speak I want dominate.

422
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:14,680
Yeah, right.
But.

423
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:16,400
I do have another question,
unless you have.

424
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,320
Some I quick question is, so
they say you're looking for a

425
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,160
counsellor ACBC, if you look for
this, it's pretty standardized

426
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:25,800
where you're going to get what
you're saying.

427
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,720
Yeah, right.
That's like a good place to look

428
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,600
if you're like, hey, I want to
find some of my area, you know,

429
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,120
you can just search for that
designation, OK.

430
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,680
Yeah, and in our in our website,
which low country Biblical

431
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,240
counseling center, which I
haven't mentioned, but we're in

432
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,240
Charleston, so it's low country.
When I went to Denver to speak,

433
00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:46,760
I was in front of them and Micro
Center counseling just come with

434
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,440
my mind.
I said I'm from the low country

435
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,080
and some some was on my shoulder
saying tell him it's very unlike

436
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,160
the high country here.
And I said you're more high than

437
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,800
in one way.
So I just why didn't my wife

438
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,680
like I say that she's like it
just seemed funny.

439
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,920
But anyway.
So if you're looking for

440
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,400
counseling, weather online or
here, it's LCDCC low country

441
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:12,960
good low.
Counselor because you actually

442
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:17,440
if there's someone in Missouri
listening to this podcast they

443
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,880
and there's no one local you
could do sometimes have

444
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,080
counselors who will zoom
council.

445
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:26,200
And I think we can tell within
two or three sessions if there's

446
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,280
a connection domain that we're
going to help you with.

447
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:35,640
But we also do training because
we believe that we're not a

448
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,760
center because we want to just
develop centers all over.

449
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,800
We want to help God's people
learn to counsel at the level

450
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,000
they're called, you know, and I
think different people are going

451
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,840
to jump in.
And they have been.

452
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:54,360
We've got about 600 students
right now going through our

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00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:56,480
training.
And some of them have no

454
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,680
intention of becoming a lead
counselor, but they want to be

455
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,680
what we call an encourage, a
coach that comes alongside maybe

456
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,160
a lead counselor or just helps.
Just being a parent and having

457
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,000
gone to your classes, there's
things that you learn and you

458
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,360
go, Oh my, my child is
struggling with fill in the

459
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:17,040
blank.
And you know, you know, I

460
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,840
remember Tim talking about stuff
like that.

461
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,200
So yes, you were the you were.
You did a little video one time.

462
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,920
I recorded, I remember you and
it saying that, and it was

463
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,360
helpful for me just to hear
someone repeat what, you know,

464
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,760
we see in the past in the
scripture that helps children,

465
00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:37,520
you know, it's all there.
But yeah, we if we have this

466
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:42,280
program called Change that
sticks, someone said change that

467
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,120
stinks.
Well, it's change that sticks

468
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,760
and, and people go through that
and within three to four months,

469
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,800
some of them six months, they
can get the foundations of how

470
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,360
to change and how to council.
So I that's really important.

471
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,480
Now, I don't know what what else
you've got there, Michael, but I

472
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,480
do want to.
I want to help this guy.

473
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,600
Well, so you did talk about
methods.

474
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,040
You're talking about methods
that you might borrow.

475
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:14,720
But what came to mind was one
method that we see in Scripture

476
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,560
that I think you've leaned
heavily into is this put off put

477
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,560
on paradigm.
You see it in Paul's stuff.

478
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,960
You see it even in James when
he's talking about, you know,

479
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:27,320
how can a good, how can A1 mouth
bring forth pursing and

480
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,400
blessing?
How can a spring bring forth

481
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,760
freshwater and saltwater?
And the picture I've always got

482
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,200
from that is if a stream has
solid pressure of freshwater,

483
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,960
the saltwater can't get out.
And so if you're putting on the

484
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,360
freshwater, the saltwater can't,
can't.

485
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,040
Get started.
And so maybe you could talk

486
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:48,960
about how some of that's
employed?

487
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:53,680
Yeah, that's good.
Because if you think about what

488
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,240
are the levels of change that
people need?

489
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,760
So you got circumstantial change
and you know, everyone coming to

490
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,280
counseling, if we could just
change their circumstances,

491
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,280
right, they'd be like, hey,
you're going to be rich.

492
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,400
Because you can do that You're.
Going to be rich.

493
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,800
You don't have as much room that
you need to in your house.

494
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,320
Your cars are never going to
break down.

495
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:17,040
You know, and part of your
circumstances, by the way, would

496
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,080
be your Physiology.
In other words, if, if you can

497
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,640
make me feel happy, give me
something physically to help me

498
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,360
with that.
So a lot of focus is on

499
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:30,920
circumstantial change, but you
go deeper.

500
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:35,000
You have behavioral change, so
you have behavioral therapy, you

501
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,360
know, reward, punishment.
There's motivations trying to

502
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,640
build in there.
Let's change your habits.

503
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,120
And that's very important.
The Bible's going to address

504
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,200
that, right?
Put off the old self, old manner

505
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,840
of life.
Ephesians 422.

506
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,880
But then it goes on, we could
say, change your thinking.

507
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,080
And that's really important,
right?

508
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,160
Your patterns of thought that
youth have practiced so long

509
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,800
that they're unconscious.
So if you change your mouth,

510
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,000
which is your behavior, but you
don't change your thought behind

511
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:12,360
it, you could still be saying my
wife is dumb, but your mouth is

512
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,400
trained not to say, so your
change isn't really there yet.

513
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:17,960
Or you could say.
Surface level change.

514
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:24,120
Yeah, or you could take anti
anxiety and you still think

515
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,800
anxious thoughts, but your body
doesn't respond to those anxious

516
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,080
thoughts as as easily.
So it's not really a full human

517
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:37,120
chain as you've been created.
But then beyond thoughts, we

518
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,720
have desires.
I want something and out of that

519
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,480
want I think on this.
And I behaved on this, you know,

520
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:53,520
when I was younger, my family
gave me ABB gun for a 12 year

521
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,440
old Christmas present.
OK best thing.

522
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,400
Always wanted ABB gun.
You didn't shoot your eye out.

523
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,040
I did.
This was a handgun that had a

524
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,400
trigger and it cut.
The BB gun actually went, you

525
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:05,800
know, kind of went down like
that.

526
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:11,160
It wasn't a air rifle.
Next Christmas they bought me a

527
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,320
Bible.
That was my big buy.

528
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,760
That was my big Christmas.
How do you think I felt?

529
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,400
Because I desired something
different, right?

530
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,720
But Fast forward about 8 years
and they bought me the whole

531
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,720
MacArthur Bible on disk.
They remember those disks they

532
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:27,880
used to have to put in
computers.

533
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,200
OK, so they got how did I feel
then?

534
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,000
Static because I desired it.
So a lot of your feelings,

535
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,720
thoughts, behaviors, the source
is your desires, right?

536
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,640
That's where we get into idols
of the heart and learning how to

537
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,800
desire God more than that.
But beyond and deeper than that

538
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,920
is what you believe.
So if I'm thinking my life is so

539
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,240
dumb, OK, stop.
What do you desire?

540
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,000
You desire what?
What do you desire her to be

541
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,120
different more than you desire
to be kind to her more?

542
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,680
Do you desire to be like Jesus?
What's the greatest reward?

543
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,320
So you're, you're trying to
shift that.

544
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,680
But the deeper than desires is
what you believe.

545
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:16,120
Why do I desire to be an
influence to my wife or love an

546
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:21,200
enemy or whatever it is because
I believe things like God loved

547
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,760
me while I was an enemy, you
know, so yeah, you can't just

548
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:31,600
change your behavior.
You can't in biblical counseling

549
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,200
is going to help you just change
your thinking.

550
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,440
It is though, it's not going to
just help you change your

551
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:37,840
desires.
It's going to help you change

552
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,400
your beliefs that change that.
So when we go back to EMDR

553
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,480
therapy, you can change your
Physiology through that

554
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:52,000
potentially your brain, but what
caused the brain is which came

555
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,080
Perth a chicken or the egg and
what really helps it work out

556
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,560
best And Michael, one way I
remember memorize this whole

557
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,640
process is Psalm 1914 gives us
all four of those.

558
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,000
May the words in my mouth and
the meditation of my heart be

559
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,080
pleasing in your sight, O Lord,
my rock and Redeemer.

560
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:15,160
There you have behavior,
thoughts, desires and beliefs,

561
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:21,120
and David's laying that out in a
way that's beautiful and so.

562
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,760
So big three emotions you deal
with as a counselor.

563
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:33,400
Sad mad friend.
Sad mad Fred and we add bad,

564
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,720
bad, but we dare to find bad as
guilt.

565
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,440
So sad mad Fred and.
Fred is afraid.

566
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:48,800
Afraid or anxious or worried.
Those are common emotions. 90%

567
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,280
of everyone coming to counseling
comes in because one or more of

568
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,560
those are troubling to them.
They're overwhelming.

569
00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,760
And we think we said that Zach
was frat, right?

570
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,520
He's afraid.
He's anxious over something.

571
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,720
I don't know.
Yeah, well, this is way back

572
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,280
when he was younger.
Way back, if I'm not now, I

573
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,000
like, I like what you're saying
about all those connections.

574
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,880
I feel like you might be like, I
know the truth.

575
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,520
I just don't feel the change.
But all those connections kind

576
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,480
of go together.
So I think a lot of people might

577
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,960
say that like I'm, I'm reading
my Bible, you know, like how do

578
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,360
you get down to your desires and
these kind of things?

579
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:29,240
How does it affect your desires?
Just because God says do not

580
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,960
worry, yeah?
You know that, You know that's

581
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,120
true.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

582
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,160
Thank you for telling me that I
feel greater right?

583
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,920
Right, that's not.
Yeah, No, you do need to call

584
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,600
people to that, but you're going
to go deeper.

585
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,400
What are you believing?
What is it that God calls you to

586
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,760
know is true here?
And then once you identify, OK,

587
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,040
this is a deeper problem than
just an emotion.

588
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,720
I'm believing you might say, and
what are you wanting so much?

589
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,200
What are you afraid?
Like I have to get some dental

590
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,040
work done and I am afraid of
dental work.

591
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,040
I know people like saying that's
a chicken.

592
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:14,800
I OK, but I can imagine.
Pain but but have they had

593
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,120
something shoved down their
throat with no pain medication?

594
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:19,440
Oh, you're talking about
something else.

595
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,800
From what I understand, I was
the second person that had an

596
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,280
endoscopy without any, what do
you call them, sedatives?

597
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,840
Thank you.
Ronald Reagan was 1.

598
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,880
But, and maybe I've got that
totally wrong, maybe the doctor

599
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,120
just said that to make me feel
good.

600
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,120
But I was afraid of the
sedative, so I would rather go

601
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:45,480
through the pain of that.
But what you, what you want is

602
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,520
going to cause what you fear
too, and what you believe is

603
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,600
going to justify the fear or
help you walk out of it.

604
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,520
So if we believe that God is
with us, if we believe that God

605
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,400
is in charge of the outcome, no
matter who the middle men are,

606
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:06,920
you know, then we and we believe
he's our Father and he can work

607
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,840
it out for good, even if bad
happens and.

608
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:14,080
If we believe we don't have any
rights with respect to God, I

609
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,680
have a right with respect to
Zach to for him to not punch me

610
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,080
right?
He human human.

611
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:25,240
He shouldn't do that.
But if I'm submitting to God,

612
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:31,000
you know I I can for bear that
that's right and say.

613
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,280
And you could say God's going to
get you in the end.

614
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,080
Let's.
Let's put it to the test.

615
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,680
God's going to exalt me for
being kind, an enemy.

616
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,120
And the wisdom that comes out of
that gives you an option.

617
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,040
Now instead of just reacting,
you're saying, how should I deal

618
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,960
with that?
Should I bring Tim in and we

619
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,160
work him over biblically, you
know, for that punch?

620
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,440
But you have options now with
humility.

621
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,240
And when you have rights, you
got no options.

622
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,160
You got one reaction, Self
preservation, whatever that

623
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,920
looks like, Yeah.
So maybe I think we're getting

624
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,360
close to our time when I've had
to restart something.

625
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,800
So I don't have a great measure,
but maybe with the last two or

626
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,640
three minutes.
But there could be someone out

627
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:18,040
there that maybe knows I
shouldn't be mad about

628
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,440
something, I shouldn't be sad
about something, I shouldn't be

629
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,640
anxious about something.
And maybe they even know some

630
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:27,520
scripture that would speak to
that or they could find it, but

631
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,800
they don't really know how to
get that deep down.

632
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:35,160
Maybe you have a meditation walk
method that you've talked about.

633
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,680
Maybe you can walk us through
that method that you have some

634
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:43,360
of your counselees and and you
encourage us in at CBC to do.

635
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,840
Yeah, that's a that's very good
to to think on.

636
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,720
How do you take it from OK, now
I know what my problem is.

637
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:55,760
There's an absence of God in my
awareness.

638
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,040
I'm not consciously aware of
him.

639
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:58,560
I'm not consciously dependent on
him.

640
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,360
So what I like to do is I have
this, let's just use this one.

641
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,280
Sovereignty of God meditation
sheet gives you some verses

642
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:13,040
there to to meditate on to help
feel what's most missing in your

643
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,400
life, which is the knowledge of
God you were created to worship.

644
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:19,040
He's missing.
You're going to run off the

645
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,760
tracks at times when bad things
happen.

646
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:26,000
So let's take a verse on God's
sovereignty, like Matthew

647
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:31,040
chapter 6 where it says look at
the birds of the air.

648
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:39,560
They do not sow or reap, yet
your heavenly Father feeds them.

649
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,480
Are you not worth much more than
they?

650
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,960
This is Jesus, the wonderful
counselor back to your beginning

651
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:53,320
telling worriers how to deal
with worry and it's God centered

652
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,120
and it's defining God.
And So what would you do with

653
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,120
that passage?
That's that's Matthew 6.

654
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,880
There's a lot of other good
verses right there, but this is

655
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,920
verse 2627.
I'm not sure.

656
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,120
So I do what I call Michael's
slow motion memorization.

657
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,480
OK, because our minds in a
warrior is fast.

658
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,440
We're jolted.
We're going to, we don't slow

659
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:19,480
down to smell the roses or later
on it'll be lilies of the field

660
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,080
it goes on to.
So I will slow down and I will

661
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,600
repeat the phrase it's much, you
know, I'm not saying that

662
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,760
biblical counseling promotes
total Eastern transcendental.

663
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,800
It's not into that, right?
But there's a slowing of the

664
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,760
mind down to hear something that
has to happen, right?

665
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,720
So we have scripture to fill it.
Not just a mantra, not just a

666
00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:41,920
sound.
Not complete emptying of the

667
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,400
mind, but emptying of a lot of
the stuff that's in there

668
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:45,880
that's.
Noisy.

669
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:50,880
Noisy like let's let's get down
to God's word and and slowly

670
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,400
digest it.
So you have to this is a method.

671
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,080
It's it's, it's all over
scripture to biblic and meditate

672
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,880
doesn't tell you how to do it.
But if you're learning to do it,

673
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:02,480
you're going to learn to do it.
I I mean, it sounds you're going

674
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,520
to grow in this.
What does it look like?

675
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:14,360
Was it so slow it down?
Look at the birds of the air,

676
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:22,320
you know, look at the birds.
I'm thinking of all the

677
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,440
different birds I've seen.
Look at them, look at their

678
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,200
colors.
Look at their birds of the year,

679
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,840
how they do not sow nor reap.
Yeah, they don't.

680
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:40,040
They don't do that stuff yet.
Your heavenly Father and I, I'm

681
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,960
interrupting this now because if
I don't interrupt memorization

682
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,520
in this kind of slow motion, I'm
not connecting with God because

683
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,640
that's, it's the soul that needs
to connect with God through your

684
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,720
mind, through your prayer.
So I, I'm going to say, father,

685
00:39:55,720 --> 00:40:00,400
you are my father.
You became my father through

686
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,160
adoption.
And I'm going to, I'm going to

687
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,160
think about God as a father now.
You provide for me.

688
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:10,840
You protect me does not.
Are you not worth much more than

689
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,680
they?
Look at the birds of the air,

690
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,720
how they do not sower reap your
heavenly Father feeds them.

691
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,120
Father, I'm afraid you're not
going to take care of me when I

692
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,360
sit in that dental chair.
But you take care of the birds.

693
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,280
You're in charge of it all, Your
sovereign.

694
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:34,920
So whatever Zach's fear is, you
know, as he thinks on God, the

695
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,880
Holy Spirit can open his eyes
for his heart to actually

696
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,360
believe.
Faith comes by hearing.

697
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,680
That's a method, hearing the
word.

698
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,760
So when we're trying to help
grow in an area of emotional

699
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,320
anxiety, out of that, we're
going to replace it with faith,

700
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,720
some truth, meditate on it.
And I like to do what you said.

701
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:04,240
I'd like to do that on a walk.
So a lot of times we sit in the

702
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:08,080
house, we get distracted.
Yeah, put your phone away, put

703
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,520
the 1st letter of each word of
that verse on a card and go for

704
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,840
a walk.
Now if people go to the website

705
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:18,160
michaeltheycanlcbc.org, they can
go into the counselor toolbox

706
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,080
and they can find for free
there.

707
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:21,560
We've got a lot of free things
there.

708
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,360
Something called Behold your God
change your meditation, you

709
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,240
know, and they can see the
method there.

710
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,840
I have out of that worship walk.
They'll come back and draw a

711
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,880
picture of their fear and God is
looking, taking care of the

712
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:43,240
birds of the earth and saws.
All these things are tools to

713
00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:46,240
help us comprehend what
everything's about.

714
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:49,840
And that's the, the value, the
the glory, the weight, the worth

715
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:55,120
of God displayed in birds
displayed in Christ, all those

716
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,640
things.
So that that really does help.

717
00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:00,440
And if a counselee comes after
two or three days not doing it,

718
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,280
I will, I will go on a walk with
them because they don't maybe

719
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,120
know how to do this.
What I just said, they need

720
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,240
help.
Or maybe they it's one thing to

721
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:12,240
hear you say it and agree to it,
but like, no, we really mean

722
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:14,680
this like this really what?
I want you to go on a walk.

723
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,200
As counselor guy in Paris
online, right?

724
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:22,000
And it'd been 2-3 weeks and he
hadn't done it and he was blown

725
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,160
up at his wife and get angry and
stuff.

726
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,760
And I said, look, we're going to
go for a walk.

727
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,800
Where you at?
He says I'm in the middle of

728
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,760
Paris.
All right, let's.

729
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,560
Do it.
You walk in, I'll walk in

730
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,120
Lowcountry.
So so I got him on the phone and

731
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:39,800
I just said, I'm going to let
you hear me.

732
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,800
If I'm you talk to God and I'm
really going to talk to him

733
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,800
because all of marriages have
issues and we have to work

734
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,480
through it.
So we talked about not grieving

735
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,040
the spirit and not letting on
wholesome word.

736
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,360
We talked about, Lord, you know,
my wife struggles with this.

737
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,280
I don't want to grieve you, but
I do.

738
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,520
Please forgive me.
Help me to trust your spirit to

739
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:01,840
work.
Do not.

740
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,280
So I'm going back through.
So yeah, we just went on a whole

741
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:08,560
walk.
Does he does that change people?

742
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,320
That's that's the question.
Because ultimately we're all

743
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:17,000
wanting to change.
Does it matter how you change?

744
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,720
I'll ask that to the secularist.
Does it matter how you if if you

745
00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:25,560
come to Biblical council and can
change, do you matter how you

746
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,080
change or do you would you'd
rather get it on your own?

747
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,920
Yeah, but the question may come
to us.

748
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,120
You, you can't help people with
PTSD and those sorts of things.

749
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,640
Why not?
How do how do we know that you

750
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,960
can't change by hearing the
verse.

751
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:49,520
You need the truth of God and
that faith will come over and

752
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:54,080
you'll say, hey, I have a
different backdrop now to

753
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:58,000
dealing with my wife.
I see God, I don't have to worry

754
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,120
about the dentist, I don't have
to worry about self condemnation

755
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:03,880
because God is the judge, not
me.

756
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:09,560
Yes, if you comprehend the that
that truth of God, what can't be

757
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,400
done?
What can't be changed?

758
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:17,960
Talking about PTSD or PTSI
worked with a guy who's a Marine

759
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,360
and we, that subject came up and
he said, Oh yeah, some people

760
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,000
got it really bad and stuff.
And I was like, oh, did you ever

761
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,480
travel?
And he's like, no, not really.

762
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,000
And I knew he was a believer.
He's like, I'm a believer.

763
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,160
So it doesn't shield me from
being afraid.

764
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:34,880
But I know at the end I'm going
to to be with God.

765
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:39,680
So I had this faith and this
trust through bombs falling or

766
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:44,000
stuff going a little bit crazy.
That helped me through that.

767
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,360
And I'm not saying that if you
I'm not suggesting that if

768
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,840
you're a Christian, you should
never have or should never

769
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,080
succumb to it because I think
people are built different.

770
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:57,480
But he saw at least a difference
in the his own faith made in him

771
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:02,520
and maybe others that he knew in
his, you know, regiment that

772
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,840
that they had a confidence that
as bad as things might get here,

773
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,640
it's ultimately my my future is
much better than this.

774
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,440
Turning it from just knowing it
to believing it is a work of the

775
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,080
Spirit that requires our
cooperation.

776
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,720
And we just don't meditate on it
in the moment that we're

777
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:27,040
struggling, but we meditate on
it preemptively so that we can

778
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:31,520
draw back on that experiential
truth from God that we were

779
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,840
depending on Him and celebrating
Him in worship or whatever it

780
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,760
was.
And now we're bringing it to

781
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:38,280
bear in.
Michael.

782
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,200
I'll just say this.
John MacArthur has a favorite

783
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,840
verse.
So for all of you watching, can

784
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,360
you what?
What?

785
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:49,760
Yeah.
He probably has a lot of verses

786
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,200
now.
He doesn't need verses now.

787
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:54,880
What do you think is favorite
verses?

788
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:55,680
Oh.
Man.

789
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,600
Oh, I don't know.
What do you think?

790
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:03,920
Was it a Galatians 56?
No, but that's a nice one.

791
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:08,080
That's not Martin Luther's, no.
Oh, I know what you're saying

792
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:09,160
now.
I know what the verse that is.

793
00:46:09,240 --> 00:46:13,160
Yeah.
No, it's 2nd Corinthians 318I.

794
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,280
Should I should have guessed it?
Yeah, it's my favorite verse.

795
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,080
I can't say I had it was mine
before because you know, he was,

796
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,080
he's older than me.
I'm sure he had that first.

797
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,600
But it says and and think about
what we're saying here with

798
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:31,120
transformation, this and it's
called by John MacArthur the

799
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,720
divine perspective of change.
So if you want to see how God

800
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:39,600
truly changes it a person look
at 2nd Corinthians 318.

801
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,560
And it's through the gospel that
this has afforded us, but it

802
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:47,320
says this we have new potential
here and we all with unveiled

803
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,400
face.
This is the new potential we

804
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,920
have in Christ with unveiled
face, meaning eyes.

805
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:57,240
We can see things, behold as in
a mirror, the glory of the Lord,

806
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,440
judge, King, Father, create a
Redeemer and so on.

807
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:08,280
Humility, power, beholding the
glory of the Lord are being

808
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,160
transformed.
Let's say inside out

809
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,440
metamorphose, right?
It's not just, oh, I'm going to

810
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:17,400
start to talk better.
I'm going to start to believe

811
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,880
that Greek.
Word is metamorphose, yes.

812
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:26,040
Yes, yes, are being transformed
into that same glory.

813
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,120
I mean, does it matter how you
change?

814
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,720
If you could change like that,
wouldn't that be superior?

815
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:39,440
Have you attempted that from 1°
of glory to another as from the

816
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,360
Spirit?
So we understand it's not self

817
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,880
help, but you have to cooperate.
You have to put it on, you have

818
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,360
to think on it.
You have to remedially put that

819
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,720
passage when you're tempted, but
you have to schedule it in as

820
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:58,480
well, not just remedially, but
occasionally and then scheduled

821
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,120
meditation.
You know, so that's a great

822
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:06,360
verse.
You know, you're debating, is

823
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,880
this biblical counseling?
Consider first Peter 411.

824
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,440
You know, who is this?
Whoever speaks, whoever serves

825
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:14,880
word power, that got to be
glorified.

826
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:20,280
So our goal is to glorify God in
the life of that person, how we

827
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,560
speak.
But if we end it by saying, how

828
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:27,400
are you transformed?
Will you speak the words that

829
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,600
bring God glory?
And in speaking those words, if

830
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:35,560
the counselee receives that,
they're actually being changed

831
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:41,200
by that glory?
You know, it's very powerful

832
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:45,280
when the Holy Spirit adds weight
to our thoughts because they're

833
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,800
His thoughts.
They're not just positive

834
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,400
thinking.
They're His thoughts and they

835
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,200
mean something and He shows us
what they mean so.

836
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:55,800
All right.
I think that's good.

837
00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:02,680
So LCBC c.org is your website, a
lot of stuff there for free used

838
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,040
to give it all away and then we
found some of the various

839
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,160
practices.
So we to your credit, you had to

840
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,760
put some of it behind the pay
wall, but a lot of it's

841
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,320
different.
I wrote it showing books.

842
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:13,880
It really did.
It would show up on books.

843
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:14,840
It would be like, how did that
happen?

844
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,440
But we have a sign out that we
also have our guests do unless

845
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:21,640
you had we talked a lot while
and everything else.

846
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:24,920
I don't know.
I, I it's fine.

847
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:26,800
It's we talked a lot.
That's that's.

848
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:28,800
Cool, I think he was helped just
by being.

849
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:33,680
Here I, I was just going to say,
I think I, we, we mentioned this

850
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,080
earlier, but it's like not just
someone who needs help with

851
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,600
anxiety or whatever, you're,
you're not and you're not also

852
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,040
circumventing the church, you're
equipping the church.

853
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,520
I think that's really important.
I think a lot of para church

854
00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:48,200
places just kind of like try to
take the place of the church way

855
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,280
difference.
And so it's like you're

856
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,400
struggling these or trying to
help someone else struggle.

857
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,360
There's a need and you
everyone's going to go through

858
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,120
these kind of things.
It's good to like in the

859
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,320
physical therapy world, if you
are going to get a knee

860
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,880
procedure, come get some prehab
and you'll be stronger for the

861
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:04,560
rehab.
It's kind of the same idea, like

862
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,040
get this now.
Because whether you're helping

863
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,120
someone or going through it,
you're, you're kind of prepped

864
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:09,920
for that.
Yeah.

865
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:14,000
And and we turn, Zach, we turn
no one away for counseling

866
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:19,920
income wise or for training, But
those who are able to pay, they

867
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:21,800
help us continue.
And those who help support us

868
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,920
can help us continue.
So we've never, since 2003,

869
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:29,480
we've never gone hungry.
Well, yeah.

870
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,080
So God has been faithful.
It's good.

871
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,440
All right.
What do you say when you close

872
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,880
now?
We say, because this is the Take

873
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:39,000
Two podcast.
That's right.

874
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:44,000
So we say, that's our take.
I say this, yeah, Yeah, that is

875
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,680
our take.
Thanks for listening to Take

876
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,880
Two.
Find us wherever you find

877
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,400
podcasts and on YouTube for
those who want to watch our

878
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:53,080
video cast.